Mini 1095 - Fast Food Mafia - Game Over

[rajrhcpfreak]

ok...

@everyone
i revealed that i was a cop night 1 when inhim was in the game.
night 0 GW and i said hi to eachother. i wanted a day to feel out my partner in the game before i told him i was the cop.

@magua i apparently have cameras in my pizza boxes.

@lew i was given an innocent result. so unless there was a redirector or a godfather.

on the possibility of inhim being scum. i think its as possible as me giving up two scum back to back and the second one i came up with strangecoug. now tell me what is more possible,

1. i am scum N1 i fake claim cop, volunteer to give up purpleorange, N2 i come up with investigating strangecoug and then out him the next day for inhim to lead a charge to get him lynched. but then conveniently stay off the wagon that would have cleared me for the rest of the game.
2. inhim is scum after hearing me come out as cop he then uses me to investigate people. knowing that i wouldnt turn on him.

honestly its probably #3 we are just paranoid innocent people. but the only reason why i did because suspicious of him was that he thought #1 could even be a possibility.


i know the batt innocent result is questionable since there might be a godfather but since we have 2 shots to get the last scum i think magua is the first shot. inhim was so convinced that i should investigate batt last night and now you are ignoring it, give me a break are you some kind of lyncher?

the first post does say healthy and inhim and i do know eachothers role. and both roles are pretty unhealthy.

i am really going to quit the site if you all lynch the neighbor confirmed cop.

[Zang]

Votecount-

Magua - 1 - (rajrhcpfreak) (L-2)

Not Voting: lewarcher82, InHimshallibe, Magua, Battousai

3 needed to lynch

Deadline is February 3 at 3:30 pm EST

[Battousai]

Raj revealing role N1 is a bit more townie than pregame, but I still don't see why town-raj would think inhim was town after his D1 play. Nothing inhim did D1 would sway me to be confident in his alignment, especially since we are neighbors. I'd be much more paranoid as a cop/neighbor.

Going over what happened, N1, inhim wanted a result on PO. Chances of PO being lynched D2 were high regardless (even tracker targetted him). Pretty safe for scum-raj to give inhim a guilty. N2, scum-raj singled out SC. Based on inhim's ingame posts, I'm guessing inhim called SC out for PO's bus vote (from post 492) in the night talk. It may have swayed him enough to rat out his partner and get major bonus points for "outting" 2 scum. Then comes N3 and he investigates me. If only I was scum then it would have been very impressive that you investigated all 3 scum back to back. I can definately see raj as possible scum here. The only thing that's pushing him as town is that he "investigated" 2 scum. Total posts is 20 (10 D1, 7 D2-D3) and not much townie posts of that.

Then looking at the wagon on SC, raj voted Magua first for not voting in the last quicklynch. Doesn't make sense in the fact that Magua decided to wait before putting PO at L-2 and wasn't on to hammer. I can see this as you trying to hide as a PR, but why pick on Magua?


Confirming that CoolDog found SC the scummiest in his last post. Leads to believe he targetted and thus weakened SC.

Can you both [inhim and raj] ask the mod if you can post your nighttalk? Might help solidify or change reads on raj.

Raj- why are you dismissing lewarcher could be scum? You say 2 shots to lynch scum, might as well lynch magua today. You didn't investigate lewarcher either, so there has to be something there that you can articulate as to why he is town.

Magua- You are also counting lewarcher as town. Could you tell us why?

Inhim- You as well. At least two of you must be town, so there has to be something I am missing.

[Magua]

Quickly:

D1 lewarcher is in general willing to believe that people aren't stupid (CooLDog's claim), and suspicious of things. He asks people why they find him townie, and he pushes on both Peanutman/PO and SC. He takes an interest in the replacement of Peanutman (wants it to happen before the end of the day), which would be suspicious except that he takes an even larger interest in the replacement of EtherealCookie -- even after Peanutman had been replaced by PO. At that point, scum had found a townie who had messed up their claim and could already taste the mislynch, but lew was all about trying to delay the lynch.

D2, he hops on the PO wagon, which is null (so did SC), but he does point out how bad his scumhunting was D1. Yeah, yeah, WIFOM, but townpoints in my book.

D3, he's the first to vote SC. You have two deaths at the start of D3 -- thus, vigilante or serial killer -- and SC is the mafia doctor.

This left me feeling very town about him (and about IHSIB), even before the massclaim.

@Raj:

Your case against me is that I didn't vote PO before he claimed. How do you reconcile this with the events of D3?

[rajrhcpfreak]

this is just a quick response to batt.
little tipsy from being out. i will go in more depth if needed but ill post more about what batt and magua is asking tomorrow.


i am dismissing lew as scum because i dont recall any scum role that sends items that are harmless. its almost a confirmable town role. if there is an instance you all can quote then i will put lew on my watch list.

ok the strangecoug lynch. my opening post i wanting to distance myself. also if i agitated scum in my post i might have caused them to lynch me which would have given inhim a lead. (its wifom but it would have been a small lead)

now i analyzed the 2 lynches and i tried to figure out who could have been scum and what would have been their reasoning. which is hard since a lot of people alive have been on the lynches. so i was looking at early votes to appear on the lynch but never really posted reasons to give the lynch motivation. thats when i decided that magua was my biggest suspect after strangecoug

[Magua]

now i analyzed the 2 lynches and i tried to figure out who could have been scum and what would have been their reasoning. which is hard since a lot of people alive have been on the lynches. so i was looking at early votes to appear on the lynch but never really posted reasons to give the lynch motivation. thats when i decided that magua was my biggest suspect after strangecoug

1) AntB lynch. I wasn't on it. I was on the SC wagon, which I'd been fomenting for most of the day.

2) PO lynch: I wasn't on it. Why? Let's look at the timeline:

I post at 5:52pm in post #473, saying I'm not voting until PO claims.
OP posts 7:12pm in #474.
IHSIB hammers at 8:11pm in #479.

You find this scummy.

3) SC lynch. I was on this. I wanted SC lynched D1, and gave plenty of motivations for it. I suggest you read my ISO.

ITT, it looks like you didn't actually look at anything because none of what you said actually applies to me.

[lewarcher82]

I wonder if CoolDog poisoned anyone of us before dying, btw...

[inHimshallibe]

I wonder if CoolDog poisoned anyone of us before dying, btw...

This is my sad, sad thought as well.



I'll take back whatever I said about him since most of us agree he was doing the weakening.

[inHimshallibe]

I'm 100% behind rajtown. You can lambaste me about this post-game, but I believe in the power of the KY KREW.

Scum is toast. I don't think there's any way lewarcher is scum, and I believe in raj. They're going to have to kill me to try and convince lew that raj is scum, and that means raj will get another investigation. I GUESS they could kill raj and try and convince lew that I'M scum, but that seems way too laughable.

In retrospect, I really shouldn't have quickhammered. We had a tracker result and a guilty investigation - there was no way PO was getting out of that alive. That is the biggest mark against me. Then again, I didn't know we'd be dealing with a quicklynch of Coug either.

IF lew is one of those crazy BOOM DYNAMITE SK type deals, we could lynch him... but then that puts raj or I in the unenviable LyLo situation with Magua/Battousai. Nope, I'm going with lew = town. His play has defined himself very well. He wasn't hiding like an SK would.

I'll be going over both Magua and Battousai today.

[inHimshallibe]

God, if CooLDoG poisoned someone that isn't being lynched, this is LyLo. UGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGH.

[Battousai]

Magua- D1 points I do not agree with. He may have pushed a bit on SC, but he shoved AntB (along with raj). Replacements interest is null, easy for scum to appear townie with waiting for replacements as scum would really have nothing to lose. D3- Post 490, I believe, he weakens the case on SC by saying something like it not being very strong, best place to put his vote. Gives credence to the fact that scum could early bus and not be able to jump off as the wagon was too quick.

Nothing there sways me to believe lew is town, still a bit null leaning scum for me.

raj- That's just asinine, really. How is this even remotely balanced, from a town-raj perspective? Sane Cop neighbor, neighbor, tracker, miller, poisoner, confirmable townie, 3 VT vs goon, scum doc (no vig killing role, as poison can't be treated by doctors only poison docs), and ??? goon/GF? The role is confirmable, but the alignment is not.

I think one of the PRs is fakeclaiming a role. That leaves town neighbor, Sane Cop town neighbor, and Town burger vendor. Pretty certain there aren't two scum, so at least 1 of the neighbors is town (based on Inhim not killing you, I'm more than willing to bet it is him), so that leaves Sane Cop town neighbor, and Town burger vendor. We know that lewarcher is at least a burger vendor. So, my vote today goes to lewarcher or raj. Opinions?

[rajrhcpfreak]

now i analyzed the 2 lynches and i tried to figure out who could have been scum and what would have been their reasoning. which is hard since a lot of people alive have been on the lynches. so i was looking at early votes to appear on the lynch but never really posted reasons to give the lynch motivation. thats when i decided that magua was my biggest suspect after strangecoug

1) AntB lynch. I wasn't on it. I was on the SC wagon, which I'd been fomenting for most of the day.

2) PO lynch: I wasn't on it. Why? Let's look at the timeline:

I post at 5:52pm in post #473, saying I'm not voting until PO claims.
OP posts 7:12pm in #474.
IHSIB hammers at 8:11pm in #479.

You find this scummy.

3) SC lynch. I was on this. I wanted SC lynched D1, and gave plenty of motivations for it. I suggest you read my ISO.

ITT, it looks like you didn't actually look at anything because none of what you said actually applies to me.

all of that is wifom

1) you didnt need to be on it since ant played so badly. when a townie screws up his role, scum doesnt need to do anything. being on SC early could be distancing.

2) its not like he was L-1 he was at L-2 so you could have voted for him. not to mention you refuse to even comment on the purple wagon before he even comments.

3) now the choice for strangecoug we have lew adding a vote early, might be distancing. inhim then adds a vote from my lead. then magua adds his vote. you think that your putting him at L-2 and you make sure people realize it. had it not been for the quick lynch you could have had plenty of time to change your vote after a claim.

unvote

im not doing this because i think your innocent. batt is acting like scum going for the win today.

[lewarcher82]

batt is acting like scum going for the win today.

true. He definitely is trying to blow up everyone else's reading of the game.

BUT...

But he is saying something interesting about the balance. In which way it is interesting I cannot say right now. It is 1am and I just came home, but I will reconsider it tomorrow.

[lewarcher82]

meanwhile: Homework for everyone.

Setup projection:
Sane Cop neighbor, (alignment is not confirmed)
neighbor, (alignment is not confirmed)
tracker,
miller, (can deceive cop)
poisoner, (can mispoison)
confirmable townie (I am not a confirmable townie. My role is confirmed, my alignment is not.)
3 VT

goon
scum doc (can he cure poison?)
GF? (can deceive cop?)

is this believable? Yes/No and why

(Battousai thinks it is not, but if he wants to make further comments, I will be glad to read them)

[Battousai]

I'm "blowing up" reads because I think you guys are wrong and me attacking your reads and your defense gives me info for my own suspicioun.

Docs cannot cure poison, that is why there are poison docs. That gives scum 2 vanilla roles. I do not think poisoner can mispoison in this setup (no roleblock, etc.). Tracker/Sane Cop combo is overpowered, miller claim however, weakens it a bit (though I think optimal miller play is to claim like TSQ did so that lessens it). If the mod believed that the miller helped weakened the tracker/sane cop combo enough, I do not see him putting in a role that confirms itself as doing nothing on the town side.

[rajrhcpfreak]

ok i think that a scum doc protects verses poisoners. it has to. why put a scum doc in if there was nothing to save against?

and i think a godfather could help weaken my role. remember that there is no doc role.


it might be wifom but this is one reason why i have a hard time thinking that batt is scum. he could have easily ridden me getting an innocent on him and lynch magua. but he questions the set up and wants us to balance it. balancing it forces me to recognizing that there is a godfather and that he is no longer confirmed.

so in reply ro lew i think that it is possible. in a game with no confirmed roles all of our roles can be wifom so why cant there be a cop and a tracker with no doc to protect either. not to mention that a miller and a godfather screws up the cop.

[Battousai]

raj- If there is a town doc, tracker, and sane cop in a mini, I'd never play with that mod again.

Tired, just got back from watching The Green Hornet, and Imma go to bed now.

[inHimshallibe]

raj- If there is a town doc, tracker, and sane cop in a mini, I'd never play with that mod again.

Tired, just got back from watching The Green Hornet, and Imma go to bed now.

Sometimes we just have to accept these things and move on to the next game.

[Magua]

I never considered that the mafia doctor *couldn't* protect against the poisoner. I mean, even flavorwise, CooLDog kills via heart-attack-inducing foods, but the mafia eat better, wholesome foods, so are somewhat protected.

@Battousai:

Mispoison would be "poisoning townies". Like mislynch.

@lewarcher:

Setup is believable if third mafia is roleblocker. But since we don't know third mafia...

Really, though, setup speculation only takes us so far without knowing the third mafia's power, especially given that half of the setup seems to be in switching how the power roles were given to each side (town poisoner, mafia doctor). I don't think it's productive. What is productive is scumhunting. So, I went and did some wagon work. Unlike the votecounts given by Zang, these *are* in order voted.

Chronopie

- 1 vote

* AntB

- post #420

CooLDog

- 1 vote

* Chronopie

- post #26

AntB

- 7 votes
* rajrhcpfreak - post #169
* lewarcher82 - post #232

* EtherealCookie

- post #255

* CooLDog

- post #318

* yabbaguy

- post #417

* StrangerCoug

- post #431
* inHimshallibe - post #444, hammer vote
(This skips

Purple Orange

's vote in #457 as it was after the hammer.)

StrangerCoug

- 3 votes
* Battousai - post #284
* Magua - post #333

* Purple Orange

- post #440

Purple Orange

- 6 votes

* Chronopie

- post #465

* StrangerCoug

- post #466
* lewarcher82 - post #467

* CooLDog

- post #468
* rajrhcpfreak - post #475
* inHimshallibe - post #479, hammer vote

Not voting - 4 votes
* Battousai
* Magua

* Purple Orange

* yabbaguy

Magua - 1 vote
* rajrhcpfreak - post #486

StrangerCoug

- 3 votes
* lewarcher - post #488
* inHimshallibe - post #492
* Magua - post #493, hammer (??)

Not voting - 3 votes
* Battousai

* CooLDog

* StrangerCoug

Now. Onto Raj:

which is hard since a lot of people alive have been on the lynches. so i was looking at early votes to appear on the lynch but never really posted reasons to give the lynch motivation.

Totally false. The suspicions Raj voices have nothing to do with what actually happened. He never looked at all, but just wants to give the appearance that he did.

2) its not like he

(Purple Orange)

was L-1 he was at L-2 so you could have voted for him. not to mention you refuse to even comment on the purple wagon before he even comments.

3) now the choice for strangecoug we have lew adding a vote early, might be distancing. inhim then adds a vote from my lead. then magua adds his vote. you think that your putting him at L-2 and you make sure people realize it. had it not been for the quick lynch you could have had plenty of time to change your vote after a claim.

So Raj thinks that on one hand, not voting PO

before he even claimed

points to Magua-scum, but on the other hand,

putting the mafia doctor at L-1

is a null tell.

Doubly so, Raj thinks that Magua-scum would put the mafia doctor at L-1

and not realize he was doing so in the process

.

[rajrhcpfreak]

yes its completely false. i just made it up all right there.

all game ive been putting you high on my list of people that we needed to check in our quicktopic. just ask inhim.

now on the idea that there would be a doc cop and tracker... thats my point having two weak investigative roles along with no protection balances it.

@inhim & lew
you two pick between batt and magua to lynch ill support either but i cant objectively pick between one now with out it just being wifom. and its up to you inhim to protect me from their attacks since your brought up the idea of me being scum.

[lewarcher82]

magua has a point, the mafia eat better. Isn't pizza hut healthier than the rest of us?

anyway, raj, I am not ready to pick between the two players you mentioned. Because if it were confirmed that one of them is scum, then I would pick Battousai. But I am not yet convinced that you are town. You claimed cop to your neighbour. And you did it at night. Why aren't you dead? I cannot quite get what happened there. I need to think. I need to think if you are really a cop, I need to think if scum.inhim would have had a good reason NOT to kill you.

Battousai: it is not true that docs can never cure posion. Poison-doc is a variation, not the rule. It is even written in the wiki. What bothers me more is that I don't know if it looks like we have one pr too many. tracker + cop + town poisoner is more or less a variation of cop + vig + 3rd pr. And tracker is confirmed by death, while cop is likely in a setup with miller. So we may need to make peace with the fact that we are in a tracker+cop setup.

Magua: if you think third mafia must a rb for setup to be believable, then raj is real cop, and battou, being no GF, would be clear. Are you aware of this?

[Battousai]

inhim- ya, but as long as the next game isn't ran by the same mod, as they have no sense of balance

I don't know about the rest of you, but the only sub I get at Subway is the Meatball Marinara every once in a blue moon because it has 1000 calories (6 inch). Not very healthy

Magua- And I doubt the mafia are immune to poison. Just because you eat healthier, it doesn't mean you are immune to some antifreeze marinade

Lew- I don't see inhim scum at all. D1 play was less than protown, but not killing cop is highly, highly unlikely. Poison-doc is a

standard

with the poisoner. Since both those roles were created, and used on site I have never seen a doctor heal poison.

[Magua]

Magua: if you think third mafia must a rb for setup to be believable, then raj is real cop, and battou, being no GF, would be clear. Are you aware of this?

Or Raj is not real cop. Or you're some wacky mafia pr. Or it's some other thing I hadn't thought of. Like I said: setup speculation here isn't incredibly helpful, and so we should be scumhunting.

My push on Raj is based almost entirely on the large disconnect between what he says, and the reasons he gives for saying it.

@Battousai: Think of slogans/perception more than reality. Subway's slogan is "Eat Fresh", and their big ad push is Jared who loses two hundred pounds eating healthy at Subway. Boston Market's slogan is "Food for Life". Meanwhile, McDonald's can push all the chicken salad they want, but when people think McDonald's, they think "Supersize Me".

To me, it makes no sense for SC to *not* be able to have protected from CooLDog. But at this point, it's an entirely academic discussion. So, again, back to the scumhunting.

[lewarcher82]

battousai, we are close to the end of the game - second-to-last day, prolly - and there was no single nightkill except the mafia ones. A single death occurred at the end of a day, and it was due to poisoner. Why should we think that there is another killing role?

also: I have a longer experience than my insite stats may suggest. Several doctors can cure poison, especially in when there are no other killing roles.

I agree that InHim is a strongly pro-town player. But something bothers me about the neighbors.

[CooLDoG]

9.When you die you are dead, do not post in the thread or any quicktopics you have. You are allowed one Bah post.

"bah" go town.