Mini 1111: Wait Your Turn, Tex! (GAME OVER)

[scotmany12]

Okay, I still think Xalxe is scum. More on that later.

But first, Fate. Calm down. You are by far one of the most obnoxious players I have ever played with. I think you're town; I think you're being sincere (though your constant use of self meta is making me question that). But you need to relax. You're arrogant and very frustrating to play with.

For those that have played with fate, does he constantly use his own meta as town?

I have slight scumreads on both Hoopla and Sudo.

Xalxe is still scum. He has been active lurking, having only made one post with substance. His case is horribly contrived. The only thing I agree with him the point he made about Fate's appeal to emotion, but that alone isn't enough to lynch. It feels like he went through fate's posts and tried to pick out anything that he can twist into something scummy. He needs to die.

[Hoopla]

P.S. Could you answer the question I asked you in #198, Hoopls?

I still think only one of them is scum, but I've increasingly began to think Pokerface is town based on how his wagon formed. Xalxe is scum, but you know my position on this. I don't know why you needed to ask that - I thought my positions on these two players have been pretty well known and updated regularly enough.

[PokerFace]

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 2#p2725682
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 0#p2725690
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 5#p2727045
After reading posts like these I am re considering my reasoning I am starting to consider hoopla is town and thought fate was town as apposed to scum defending scum or scum buddying. It kinda makse sence. Only thing that don't make sence is where she almost soft claimed too.

that could be telling of one of his buddies especially since hoopla said

For what it's worth, the casual role-info dropping should probably cease, because we want as many N2 vigs alive for tomorrow to give us good chances of winning the game. Telegraphing who's even and who's odd to scum is a bad move. Unless of course this is your subtle way of wifom'ing the scums, in which case, continue (don't really).

and followed that up with:

Entering this game, I was really hoping I'd draw scum or odd-night-vig, just so I was (nearly) guaranteed to get to kill someone

So first you say we shouldn't claim or wifom it and then you totatally just did one

Any particular reason you did that? Also you have played many games with fate, Yes? How many?

__________

@Sudo

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 9#p2727859
Are you voting Fate because you think he is scum for acting anti-town with no good reason OR do you think he is town acting anti-town and should stop or be killed?

I just read sudo's last post. It answers my question but the last part in it bothers me

I have a scum read on him, but of course, I can't be 100% certain; and short of Fate saying so himself, I doubt that anyone could be. But I am confident in my vote as it stands.

This part hear seems to suggest you have some doubt or you are trying not to get blamed for him possibly being town and I think scum would be more prone to worying about being blamed than town, especially before fate's flip. feels like you know how he'd flip, so yay I am starting to get a scum read on sudo too.

__________

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 6#p2726566
check the timestamp on my post and your post. we simulposted so no I wasn't copying you we just thought simular at that point. also check the part at the end of my post where i said I had only read up to post 164.

Xalxe your play so far seems kinda angry. You say you agree with UA and sudo and then yell at them for making you feel useless. Also to note your laugh at my post. I'm however not sure why you are disturbed when you had 2 votes at first seeing you disturbed at when you were l-1 is expected but again why angry at people not voting you? Your actions feel wierd, couple that with what you said earlier and what I thought before where you didn't make waves, makes me think you may be worth the deadline lynch. But its not time for that yet I think right now I am waiting on hooplas response before i get off her

I am wondering what may exist in UA's no lynch thought. The math i had earlier involved a massclaim with vidging and no lynching, I am wondering how UA's is different. We can't all kill at once or easily control who can kill when and since all scum can kill on the same night i am not sue how we could break it. If you disagree then explain.

[Xalxe]

Xalxe your play so far seems kinda angry. You say you agree with UA and sudo and then yell at them for making you feel useless. Also to note your laugh at my post. I'm however not sure why you are disturbed when you had 2 votes at first seeing you disturbed at when you were l-1 is expected but again why angry at people not voting you? Your actions feel wierd, couple that with what you said earlier and what I thought before where you didn't make waves, makes me think you may be worth the deadline lynch. But its not time for that yet I think right now I am waiting on hooplas response before i get off her

I didn't really yell at them for making me useless, it's my way of calling attention the the fact that they (and you) are reinforcing my points/making new ones that I hadn't thought of but agree with.

I don't really understand your second sentence; I feel as if it's missing a word or two. Could you maybe rephrase it so I can answer the questions you are asking?

[PokerFace]

i was just explaining how it would have been impossible to copy you given timings of our posts

In general your comments seemed to imply something against me, sudo, UA. maybe i misnderstood them still I think you could have said "oh I agree and think blank" as apposed to "well thanks for doing all that or copying me [insert somewhat insulting comment here]"

Basically you comments did come off as sheeping and in a good way because you seemed to want the credit for it all and not want them to have the credit

[PokerFace]

ebwop:

Basically you comments did come off as sheeping and

NOT

in a good way because you seemed to want the credit for it all and not want us 3 to have the credit

[Xalxe]

Oh, no, that wasn't the intent at all. I'm a very sarcastic person IRL, so when someone "takes the words out of my mouth" (so to speak), my response is usually a "gee, thanks a lot," but they realize I'm messing with them. I realize that doesn't translate very well.

I have nothing against anybody here, I just want scum lynched.

[Mr. Flay]

Seventh Vote Count of Day One

Xalxe - 5 (scotmany12, AGar, Hoopla, Fate, Cogito Ergo Sum)
Fate - 4 (Katsuki, Xalxe, Sudo_Nym Fritzler)
PokerFace - 2 (UltimaAvalon, chamber)
Hoopla - 1 (PokerFace)

Not Voting: nobody!

With twelve alive, seven votes will be needed to lynch. Day One will end no later than midnight on Monday, January 17th.

[Xalxe]

Also, re:the current vote count:

It seems as if the play today is either Fate or me (sob). I would recommend that those undecided between these two wagons take the opportunity to question us both in order to make a decision. Not doing so may lead to a no-lynch.

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

Hoopla, the question was prompted by posts #187 and #188. Pokerface says he leans scum on Hoopla and Fate, then chooses to vote for you despite the fact that a Fatevote would've had way more impact on the game, notably right after Xalxe went after Fate.

This part hear seems to suggest you have some doubt or you are trying not to get blamed for him possibly being town and I think scum would be more prone to worying about being blamed than town, especially before fate's flip. feels like you know how he'd flip, so yay I am starting to get a scum read on sudo too.

Uncertainty is an inherent part of the game and acknowledging this when prompted to by a question is not scummy. Furthermore, Sudo in no way avows responsibility in that post.

[PokerFace]

should be noted that CES actually quoted me there and not sudo

I would have perfered that answer coming from sudo and not you CES. I can't say i agree with your first sentence cause it still feels like he was acknowledging it to agar, as though he didn't want agar to go after him. Your second sentence is part right though since I suppose sudo isn't exactly acknowledging it to everyone, just agar.

At the very least I don't think sudo and agar are both scum given how sudo answers him at the end. That sentence wouldn't be there if they were friends. And in truth i have absolutly no reason to think agar is scum at this point in the game. I am just still uncertain on sudo

What do you think of sudo in general CES?

[Hoopla]

Entering this game, I was really hoping I'd draw scum or odd-night-vig, just so I was (nearly) guaranteed to get to kill someone

How does this make sense as a softclaim...?

This passage describes my mindset prior to the game - I was using that state of feeling to describe and possibly explain Fate's action. That quote has zero bearing on my role.

~~

Hoopla, the question was prompted by posts #187 and #188. Pokerface says he leans scum on Hoopla and Fate, then chooses to vote for you despite the fact that a Fatevote would've had way more impact on the game, notably right after Xalxe went after Fate.

If anything, that is a town tell - Pokerface could quite easily have elected to create a "me vs. him" dilemma, pushing Fate's wagon, or even anyone else with votes. Scum leading vote counts (especially close to lynch) are likelier to bundle onto the next highest vote getter, as they stand to lose more by being lynched, thus making it the rational play to bring someone else into contention (or closer to contention). It's possible the vote can be interpreted as avoiding responsibility, but I don't think it is scummy either way.

[PokerFace]

Entering this game, I was really hoping I'd draw scum or odd-night-vig, just so I was (nearly) guaranteed to get to kill someone

How does this make sense as a softclaim...?

This passage describes my mindset prior to the game - I was using that state of feeling to describe and possibly explain Fate's action. That quote has zero bearing on my role.

ahh i see you were relating to fate in order to explain fates action. when i first read it I thought your were sympathizing with him to say you were the same. i'll read all that again shortly to make sure your story checks out.

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

If anything, that is a town tell - Pokerface could quite easily have elected to create a "me vs. him" dilemma, pushing Fate's wagon, or even anyone else with votes. Scum leading vote counts (especially close to lynch) are likelier to bundle onto the next highest vote getter, as they stand to lose more by being lynched, thus making it the rational play to bring someone else into contention (or closer to contention). It's possible the vote can be interpreted as avoiding responsibility, but I don't think it is scummy either way.

See, my point of view is that is exactly what they planned to do in their qt, but PF didn't follow through on it because it would've been obvious due to the proximity of their posts. Note that he totally did set-up a Fate vote in that post.

[PokerFace]

should be noted that CES actually quoted me there and not sudo

I would have perfered that answer coming from sudo and not you CES. I can't say i agree with your first sentence cause it still feels like he was acknowledging it to agar, as though he didn't want agar to go after him. Your second sentence is part right though since I suppose sudo isn't exactly acknowledging it to everyone, just agar.

At the very least I don't think sudo and agar are both scum given how sudo answers him at the end. That sentence wouldn't be there if they were friends. And in truth i have absolutly no reason to think agar is scum at this point in the game. I am just still uncertain on sudo

What do you think of sudo in general CES?

I'll go over xalxe and hoops and give what I think of them later

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

I see I missed #235.

I can't say i agree with your first sentence cause it still feels like he was acknowledging it to agar, as though he didn't want agar to go after him.

You explain your actions to people so that they don't go after you; that's just part of the game.

What do you think of sudo in general CES?

Null. Looking over his iso, I see he needs to post more though.

[AGar]

Hoopla I just outlined the ACTUAL intention behind ALL of my play this time.

The only time I play to the 'YOU CANT READ ME GAMBIT MASTAH" is when I'm town in a closed-setup and I DONT want scum to be able to read me and my role.

Except this is completely worthless in any game; the scum already know that you're town, and while they may not know your specific role, it would seem to be far more important for the town to be able to tell if you're town or not. To me, this seems tantamount to admitting that you deliberately play anti-town, which makes me wonder why you bother at all. Such a gambit would seem to be especially worthless here, where the only question is whether you're vigging N1 or N2.

So maybe you could consider playing like a townie now?

(

Emphasis mine.

)

The bolded line is what bothers me. Your vote is on Fate, which says you think he's scum. But you're encouraging him to play in a more town manner, which either means you're unsure of your read on him, or you're convinced he's town and voting him anyways.

Do explain this contradiction.

It's not a contradiction, so much as a miscommunication, it would seem. To be, the phrase "play like a townie" is more or less synonymous with "playing to win", and it's as much a general comment as it is an in-game one. Fate claims to love playing gambits, but none I've seen have been super-useful, and many are incredibly counter-productive. I have a scum read on him, but of course, I can't be 100% certain; and short of Fate saying so himself, I doubt that anyone could be. But I am confident in my vote as it stands.

In other words, "I don't want to be held fully accountable for anything I say, because you know, we could be wrong."

Ok there.

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

I'm disappointed by the activity.

P.S. Agar, you suck as much as PokerFace.

[Sudo_Nym]

Hoopla I just outlined the ACTUAL intention behind ALL of my play this time.

The only time I play to the 'YOU CANT READ ME GAMBIT MASTAH" is when I'm town in a closed-setup and I DONT want scum to be able to read me and my role.

Except this is completely worthless in any game; the scum already know that you're town, and while they may not know your specific role, it would seem to be far more important for the town to be able to tell if you're town or not. To me, this seems tantamount to admitting that you deliberately play anti-town, which makes me wonder why you bother at all. Such a gambit would seem to be especially worthless here, where the only question is whether you're vigging N1 or N2.

So maybe you could consider playing like a townie now?

(

Emphasis mine.

)

The bolded line is what bothers me. Your vote is on Fate, which says you think he's scum. But you're encouraging him to play in a more town manner, which either means you're unsure of your read on him, or you're convinced he's town and voting him anyways.

Do explain this contradiction.

It's not a contradiction, so much as a miscommunication, it would seem. To be, the phrase "play like a townie" is more or less synonymous with "playing to win", and it's as much a general comment as it is an in-game one. Fate claims to love playing gambits, but none I've seen have been super-useful, and many are incredibly counter-productive. I have a scum read on him, but of course, I can't be 100% certain; and short of Fate saying so himself, I doubt that anyone could be. But I am confident in my vote as it stands.

In other words, "I don't want to be held fully accountable for anything I say, because you know, we could be wrong."

Ok there.

Doing your best to find a scum read, I see, even if you have to twist to get there. But, please, if you can guarantee anything with 100% accuracy, do let me know. My stock portfolio could use the help.

[Katsuki]

So at this point, Chamber is either flaking or lurking scum. No posts since Tuesday (sans prod post).

Reading, will comment today. Probably after Pats game.

[Fate]

I'm very serious about that last minute switch to Sudonym.

[Mr. Flay]

chamber has been prodded as of this morning.

[AGar]

Doing your best to find a scum read, I see, even if you have to twist to get there. But, please, if you can guarantee anything with 100% accuracy, do let me know. My stock portfolio could use the help.

There's a difference between guaranteeing with 100% accuracy, and saying "I'm willing to back my reads up and step up behind them."

You're not willing to.

[Sudo_Nym]

Doing your best to find a scum read, I see, even if you have to twist to get there. But, please, if you can guarantee anything with 100% accuracy, do let me know. My stock portfolio could use the help.

There's a difference between guaranteeing with 100% accuracy, and saying "I'm willing to back my reads up and step up behind them."

You're not willing to.

And how did you come to that conclusion? I stated, quite plainly, that I was confident in a Fate lynch, and you've taken every opportunity to claim that I meant everything except that.

[Hoopla]

Sudo, when you don't end up getting your Fate lynch, will you hop on the Xalxe wagon?