Open 268: Raise the White Flag (Game Over)

[SnakePlissken]

snake = super scum + he vote early in lylo

And this is quality reasoning then is it? Along with this?

...
but if he was scum...
then...
...
...
...
...
..
.

[Lindisfarne]

Jesus Christ, andrew, you did pretty much the same thing snake did. Great. My reads are all over the place.

Nacho, I want to systematically go through and point out the logical fallacies behind defending another person's points on the sole basis you know the alignment (which in itself is a fallacy in a game like this) but

we have two days left

, and the time wasted would just take me away from scumhunting. For the time being, I will suffice to say that you turn the majority of the points into the realm of subjectivity; or that you have a different view on events than mine. At it's base, the arguments will just end in a draw where we will just have to agree to disagree.

Andrew and Pliskin: What are your views of each other based on the current events (and andrew, try to be precise. No offense, but your posts are normally lacking in precision)

[andrew94]

EXCUSE ME
snake is wtf?
the post he quoted i was talking to bvoight about striker.
y are you misrepping me

[SnakePlissken]

Im not misrepping you at all I was using it as a example of a quality post for reasoning. I know it wasn't directed at me.

In answer Lindi. I feel that Andrews vote was more motivated to get others to jump on quickly i.e. scum buddies and end out the day.

My feeling that the reamining scum are now andrew94, CN now Nacho & either you Lindi or rekirtS. However again I can't puit my finger on exactly why it's just a go with your gut kind of thing.

[andrew94]

yea okay bro theres 2 days left. if anyone votes its to 'end the day quickly'

[Equinox]

Vote Count 3.08

Nachomamma8 (2) - themanhimself, SnakePlissken
SnakePlissken (2) - bvoigt, andrew94

Not Voting (3) - Lindisfarne, Nachomamma8, rekirtS

With 7 alive, it's 4 to lynch.

The deadline is Wednesday, January 19, 11:59 PM EST (UTC-5).

[bvoigt]

@Snake: Andrew placed the second vote on someone; you placed the third vote on someone. What makes his vote different from yours?

[rekirtS]

Christ Snake, you're scummy as hell. What do you think of Bvoigt now? You were the first to vote earlier in the day with the game on the line, but now you don't even suspect him AT ALL? What the hell is that?

[rekirtS]

Ugh. CN has been a town read the entire game but I'm getting super paranoid right now.

Andrew why do you suspect me again? 'now that I look at it' is as bad as Snakes 'gut reads'.

[Equinox]

themanhimself is being prodded.

[andrew94]

bvoight's thing.
and POE

[rekirtS]

bvoight's thing.
and POE

Bvoight's thing and an acronym I don't unnderstand. Wonderful. Assuming you meant Bvoigt's case, what does POE mean?

[andrew94]

process of elimination

[themanhimself]

The great thing about D3 is that you can start analyzing voting patterns, it gives the town a ton of new information and yet most people seem to be skimming over that for playstyle. Playstyle and meta are great tactics for D1 because it's all you have but this late in the game we have something far more solid so we should use that to the fullest. Whether or not you vote nachomamma after re-reading the votes is up to you but at least go over the vote counts and compare it to the flips. We're probably at MYLO tomorrow if we don't hit scum so we shouldn't be taking it lightly. Use all the information we have, not just playstyle.

[Lindisfarne]

I'm bothered that Nacho hasn't posted in this game in over 48 hours, and yet he is VERY active in his other games...

[SnakePlissken]

Only if there's only 2 scum. If it's three we are MYLO now.

[rekirtS]

Only if there's only 2 scum. If it's three we are MYLO now.

Christ Snake, you're scummy as hell. What do you think of Bvoigt now? You were the first to vote earlier in the day with the game on the line, but now you don't even suspect him AT ALL? What the hell is that?

And Nacho does need to post more.

[bvoigt]

Guys, we're about 30 hours from the deadline. It's time to get a vote on the table.

[themanhimself]

Guys, we're about 30 hours from the deadline. It's time to get a vote on the table.

Agreed. I'm still really feeling NM here. I feel like the most solid evidence points there. Someone else make a case and I'll consider it.

[Nachomamma8]

Nacho, I want to systematically go through and point out the logical fallacies behind defending another person's points on the sole basis you know the alignment (which in itself is a fallacy in a game like this) but we have two days left, and the time wasted would just take me away from scumhunting. For the time being, I will suffice to say that you turn the majority of the points into the realm of subjectivity; or that you have a different view on events than mine. At it's base, the arguments will just end in a draw where we will just have to agree to disagree.

I've done the best I can in responding to your case. You have to understand that I have absolutely no idea what the hell CN was posting when he posted; all I know is that he was town when he did it, so the best I can do is post why he might've done as much as town. It's not much, but it's a start. I'm not trying to detract you from scumhunting, you could've questioned me on my opinions on other players or questioned them yourself, so it's not like I was inhibiting you or anything.

Snake's behavior has brought me to

Vote: SnakePlissken

. I don't quite see why he would immediately accuse andrew of a scumhammer, when he himself put someone at L-1 without any explanation. There's also the simple fact that a quicklynch would've been orchestrated on either he and I if he was town by now, so it's turning into a simple matter of Process of Elimination.

[themanhimself]

That puts snake at L-1, I'm going to re-read his ISO

[rekirtS]

THANK YOU FUCKING NACHO WAITING FOREVER

VOTE: SNAKEPLISSKEN

[Equinox]

Vote Count 3.09

SnakePlissken (4) - bvoigt, andrew94, Nachomamma8, rekirtS

Nachomamma8 (2) - themanhimself, SnakePlissken

Not Voting (1) - Lindisfarne

With 7 alive, it's 4 to lynch.

The deadline is Wednesday, January 19, 11:59 PM EST (UTC-5).

[Equinox]

Finally, after spending much of the afternoon in deliberations, the majority of the townspeople gathered at the square decided SnakePlissken was guilty of multiple counts of murder, embezzling, and so on and so forth, and that the charges carried with them the penalty of death. Amidst various cheers and boos from the people in the gathering, andrew94 and bvoigt held down SnakePlissken while Nachomamma8 and rekirtS tied his arms and legs.

"Dammit, Nachomamma8," said rekirtS, "I was waiting all day for you to get here."
"Hey, you can't say that," retorted the other, "I was waiting for

you

to make a move!"

Together, the four of them carried SnakePlissken to a nearby tree, where a noose had already been prepared and hung, and forced SnakePlissken's head through the noose.

bvoigt didn't even wait for SnakePlissken to stop moving before searching the man's pockets. Out came an empty pack of chewing gum, some coins, a switchblade, and... a square piece of black cardboard paper.

SnakePlissken,

townie

, was lynched on Day 3!

A win condition has been achieved!

Without a second thought, bvoigt grabbed the knife and turned to Nachomamma8. There was nothing they could do for SnakePlissken, but there was still time to rid the town of at least one mafioso!

Nachomamma8 dodged bvoigt's knife and twisted the latter's arm behind his back, and both of the men's weapons clattered to the ground. As Nachomamma8 rammed bvoigt's head into the trunk of the tree beside them, andrew94 picked up Nachomamma8's gun and, holding two guns in his hands, fired two shots into the crowd. rekirtS casually stuck his hand in his right pocket, took out his own gun, and emptied it into bvoigt's body.

bvoigt,

townie

, was killed in the endgame!

Lindisfarne,

townie

, was killed in the endgame!

themanhimself,

townie

, was killed in the endgame!

As if on cue, a mass of fire and wrath engulfed the mob standing just beyond them, killing the rest of the innocents in a dazzling explosion never before seen in this once quiet little town.

"We should probably get out of here."
"Yeah..."

andrew94, Nachomamma8, and rekirtS,

mafia goons

, survive and win the game for the mafia!

[Equinox]

Roles

Mafia Goon: andrew94
Mafia Goon:

Chaotic Neutrality

Nachomamma8
Mafia Goon: rekirtS
Townie: bvoigt
Townie: chkflip
Townie:

Cookie_of_Death

SnakePlissken
Townie:

drmyshottyizsik

Lindisfarne
Townie:

silverbullet999

themanhimself
Townie: Stefunny
Townie: werewolf555
Townie: yabbaguy

Actions

Night 1: andrew94 kills yabbaguy
Night 2: Chaotic Neutrality kills Stefunny

QuickTopics

Mafia QT: http://www.quicktopic.com/45/H/5P7yv5UQHV6
Graveyard QT: http://www.quicktopic.com/45/H/a8Svbjw6KDvz

---

The Draw

My decision to take PMs with regards to ending the game was to ensure that such a decision was fair and uncoerced.

If I had allowed the voting to continue in-thread, I would not have been able to officially count them without introducing bias, especially after I read the original proposal for a draw. Therefore, I had to take the votes privately and keep them anonymous to ensure that, if I were to end the game, everyone was amenable to it.

In order for the game to end in a draw, the vote had to be unanimous. The majority sent in "no"; I'll let individual players decide whether or not to reveal their votes.

The Setup

The original setup that was proposed in the Open Setup Ideas and Discussion thread was a 3:9. I chose to run a 3:8 for a couple of reasons.

Spoiler:

1. While doing some research, I ran across some numbers that were run for Mini 1030. In a mountainous 3:9 white flag, the expected win percentage for town given random play is 40.35%; theoretically, the value is the same for a 3:8 (see the link for more on this).
2. Sign-ups took 3 weeks. At that point, I was pretty much ready to switch to a different, smaller setup; however, after seeing the information above and the eleventh sign-up, I wanted to give it a shot. My thinking at the time was that I had evidence for 3:8 being balanced, and so I went with the change.

When I asked farside22 to approve the change, she allowed it on the condition that I get feedback from the players about its balance; I, too, am interested in hearing what you have to say about the setup.

In your opinion, did the change from 3:9 to 3:8 unbalance the game? What improvements would you like to see in future runs of White Flag?

Final Note

This was my first time modding a non-marathon game, and thus I'd like to ask you guys for feedback on my performance as a moderator. What did you like and/or dislike? What should I improve upon for future games?

Most importantly, I need to know if the decisions I made unbalanced the game or introduced bias -- however minor -- that shouldn't have been there. Feedback in this regard from both factions would be highly appreciated.

If you're uncomfortable bringing it up in the thread, feel free to PM me! I don't bite.