Mini 1108 - Mutiny on the High Seas - Game Over

[smargaret]

Hang on, IS thinks chess is scum but won't hammer?

IS, what does Nero's vote tell you about his alignment?

That last post by IS is very fishy and worth a closer look tomorrow.

[chesskid3]

...yet another reason i'm obviously not flipping scum.
lynch hooooooooooooooooooooooooo

[Doombunny9]

@IS- So... The only reason you're not voting chess is because Nero is voting him? lolwut?

Also, unless chess drops the "Please, please, PLEASE don't lynch me!" bullshit, we can safely ignore him until his lynch.

[chesskid3]

Because it's impossible to fight a lynch when half the people on it are just lurking until day ends, and the other half have confirmation biased themselves into a corner.
Seriously, there is no way for me to not get lynched today, so I'm just reminding everyone as often as possible how stupid they'll feel tomorrow.

[Shadow1psc]

Nice try to manipulate me Nero. I KNEW you would vote if I had said I would hammer. Im not going to fall prey to your VI shenanigans and hammer. Face it Nero, you are useless and have no clue whats going on. EVen if you did, the fact that youre faking it and trolling us like Chesskid is of no use or consequence.

Its a big handicap, but I will single handedly lead this town to victory despite your hindrances.

Chesskid is likely to be scum, but as #2 scum. My #1 scum is Shadow. Im waiting for Shadow to hammer Chess and see what happens.

... >_> God, I can't wait to roflstomp all over this tomorrow. Normal activity resumes in the morning.

[AurorusVox]

Your motives for misrepresentation is to misrepresent

Stopped reading here. If you can't come up with anything better than I'm scum because I'm scum, we're through talking.

FFFFFFFUUUUUUU

MISREPRESENTATION IS A END NOT A MEANS
YOU'RE SCUM BECAUSE YOU MISREPRESENT
OR IF YOU PREFER IT YOU MISREPRESENT BECAUSE YOU'RE SCUM
HOW HARD IS IT
MY GOD

/cool down

The rest of my post provides more reasons for you being scum. If you want to just ignore it, fine, but expect my vote all day every day until you get lynched.

Yarr.

[Internet Stranger]

Yep.

Its simple as that and I will stand by it. Chess was likely to be scum. Thats exactly what I said previously. And that the time he was #2 on the scumlist. So if not lynching #1, its ok to lynch #2? Why not #3, or even #4? If I dont stick to my #1 scum, whats the point of having suspicions then?

Then again, its also likely that Chess is just a silly VI. Its also likely that Chess is just a troll. Its also likely that Chess is playing you all for fools.

The fact that youre all desperately, and I do mean DESPERATELY looking for ANYTHING; looking for any cheap little excuse to vote on anyone means that the scum (Shadow) has you all so fooled that you have no idea who to vote for. The fact that Chess isnt being hammered by anyone else proves my point.

In fact, Shadow has finally came around. Why didnt he Hammer Chess? I dared him to do it too, he hasnt done it yet. If roflstomping me tomorrow was so 100% sure, why didnt he hammer? If Chess was scum, Shadow can put down the hammer and come at me with the zest and zeal of a fat woman all over a cinnabun.

If Chess was scum, Shadow could argue that I was protecting him.
If Chess was scum, that would be plenty of reason for everyone else to come after me.

So why didnt Shadow hammer? Chess is probably innocent then. Shadow knows this of course (scum know who is innocent after all).

Seems pretty clear to me. Unless Shadow hammers Chess and Chess turns out to be scum, Shadow is clearly the scum in this scenario.
If Shadow hammers Chess and Chess turns out to be innocent, Shadow knows he is doomed as I would be doing all the roflstomping.

Dont fall for Shadows little overconfidence game. It only works on people with low self esteem and the weak minded. Shadow is SCUM and should be voted accordingly. If Chess was truly scum, he would be dead by now.

Additionally, I will not be manipulated by such a weak player like Nero. Hey buddy, how about you actually read a few pages of the game first?

[Umbrage]

@ IS:

1) You say that the only reason you didn't hammer is to see what Shadow did.

2) Shadow did the opposite of what you expected, but your read on him didn't change.

3) Since Shadow narrowly avoided getting lynched, if he is scum, I doubt hammering is a good thing to do for him.

4) You are assuming that Shadow knows CK3's alignment. If Shadow is town, he could simply be unwilling to hammer somebody he wasn't sure was scum, which in regards to point 2, is perfectly understandable.

5) Sure, it's not optimal to lynch your #2, but what if that #2 is other people's #1?

6) You haven't taken into account the possibility that Shadow is town at all. Who are your top suspects if he is?

@ AurorusVox:

Let me try this one more time. Scum do not just misrepresent things for the hell of it. I didn't just wake up one morning and decide to misrepresent something. Both scum and town can misrepresent something. All you've shown so far is that I cut out two lines of text. You have to show that I cut out those lines because I hoped to achieve something scummy.

------------------------

I still prefer a CK3 lynch, that will give us the most information. However, Nero Cain's vote is very scummy, and should not be forgotten. He didn't want to be replaced, why is that? He hasn't really come up with a case on CK3, and just a while ago was voting IS. I just think it's worth looking at.

[Shadow1psc]

Umbrage... pretty much laid it out. No matter what I did, IS would have found a reason to go after me. If I hammered and he was town, i would have been opportunistic scum. If I hammered and he was scum, I was bussing my mate. You know why i didn't hammer? Because you're scum IS, and you're the one I want dead.

[Internet Stranger]

I don't really believe in bussing on Day 1, so that isn't an option anyways. The only real reason why you wouldn't hammer is because you KNOW chess is innocent (because Shadow is scum). Its the only scenario that fits. If you hammer chesskid and he turns to be scum, Shadow would be more innocent to me.

The fact that Shadow continues to refuse is scummy to me.

[AurorusVox]

Scum do not just misrepresent things for the hell of it.

Scum misrepresent to forward their scummy agenda. Misrepresenting people undermines their points and spins things to make yourself look better. Townies do not misrepresent on purpose. You've done it on purpose.

[Shadow1psc]

I don't really believe in bussing on Day 1, so that isn't an option anyways. The only real reason why you wouldn't hammer is because you KNOW chess is innocent (because Shadow is scum). Its the only scenario that fits. If you hammer chesskid and he turns to be scum, Shadow would be more innocent to me.

The fact that Shadow continues to refuse is scummy to me.

[quote="AurorusVox]
Scum misrepresent to forward their scummy agenda. Misrepresenting people undermines their points and spins things to make yourself look better. Townies do not misrepresent on purpose. You've done it on purpose.[/quote]

I just thought it funny that AV would post this about someone else right after IS' hilarious post.

[Jedo the Jedi]

Weekend over...

...and I'm appalled. Next to nothing has changed. You people are all just exchanging drivel. Umbrage is still posting his weak defense of "prove it" when multiple people have already done it, Shadow is still trying to pass himself off as innocent, and most of the rest of you are still tunneling on chess. If this is how you are going to fill more and more pages over the next week, just lynch somebody and let's move to night. At least we can start with more info tomorrow. If you aren't going to do this, stop pussy-footing around with chess and get down to business. Most of you have said you find someone pretty scummy, but you are voting for chess who is only marginally scummy (according to your posts). He's been voted for a policy lynch and anti-town, but then you feel you need better justification to ease your minds, so you use the same weak reasoning and say they now demonstrate his scumminess. You're fooling yourselves if you don't believe it. You're killing yourselves if you don't believe it.

Umbrage and Shadow are my picks. I'll vote one as quickly as the other if only people will join me.

[AurorusVox]

I just thought it funny that AV would post this about someone else right after IS' hilarious post.

What's your point? I'd already typed it and got ninja'd. Of you and IS I'd rather see you hang. Your other problems with IS you can take up with him.

[Shadow1psc]

It wasn't a shot at you AV; and I figured it was ninja'd by IS, I just think it hilarious because that applies to IS.

[Shadow1psc]

Also, I agree with Jedo. At this point, a lynch will tell us the most, even if its a mislynch with all the information we have.

[Internet Stranger]

Hilarious. Now Shadow is going to parrot what Jedo says and STILL won't hammer Chess.

Why? Because Shadow is the scum.

[Shadow1psc]

Don't you think, if I were scum and knew Chess was town, that I'd happily hammer? Rather than, again as scum, risk getting lynched myself? I fully expect it to swing back, and I'm firmly of the belief that you and/or Umbrage is scum and would happily lynch either.

[Internet Stranger]

You could have happily hammered until I called you out on it. Now any hammering you do is in the spotlight.

So go ahead and hammer Chess:

If Chess is scum, you're mostly vindicated and I look awful for defending him.
If he is innocent, you could have played the "oh well, he was anti-town anyways card".

The only scenario where you wouldn't lynch is if you were both scum and he was your partner.

[Shadow1psc]

IS your reasonings are terrible, considering no matter what I do you're just going to come out and attack me for it.

If Chess is scum, and I hammer, you've already said bussing is stupid d1 and you don't expect it, so why wouldn't I have bussed? Probably a scum trap. If he's scum that doesn't do anything in the way of vindicating me, you're just trying to push a town lynch, when I have clearly stated multiple times who I find to be scum, and if CK is scum, he can wait a day, or even two, for night actions and further analysis to condemn him, as if he's scum, it most certainly will. The only reason anyone should be pushing CK is policy lynch, which is stupid now that we have so many legitimate candidates (myself included).

Note, I'm not calling myself scum, but some of the people on my lynch are obviously town. Misguided town, but town nonetheless, making myself a 'legitimate candidate' (not me telling you I'm scum, I'm town).

[Doombunny9]

Because it's impossible to fight a lynch when half the people on it are just lurking until day ends, and the other half have confirmation biased themselves into a corner.
Seriously, there is no way for me to not get lynched today, so I'm just reminding everyone as often as possible how stupid they'll feel tomorrow.

You could... I don't know... Start scumhunting.

Also on the IS/shadow debate: IS seems to be trying to find something scummy in all of shadow's posts no matter what he does (i.e. as Umbrage pointed out, even though shadow did the opposite of what IS expected him to do, he still found it scummy). He even blatantly says it in post 693 where in every scenario shadow is scum. However, I can't quite put my finger on it but shadow's post 692 just seems off somehow. Like he's trying to use WIFOM to try to clear himself. And, although it's not solid, it may be that shadow knows chess's alignment and is trying to get townie points by not being on a ML.

@chess- Other than me, who are your other FoS's
@chess- Do you still find shadow pro-town?
@IS- Other than shadow and chess, who else do you find scummy?
@shadow- What is your reasoning for why you don't want to hammer chess?

Unvote

while I mull this over.

[Wraith]

Unvote Vote: Umbrage

These last two pages alone have shifted my reads. The scumteam:

Internet Stranger:

Refuses to hammer someone he considers a strong suspect, extreme tunneling of Shadow, refuses to consider Nero Cain a suspect despite strong rhetoric of suspicion

Umbrage:

Orwellian defense against AV, refuses to be helpful at all

Nero Cain:

refuses to read at all, lots of lurking, jumps around on wagons

IS-NC:

I feel this is the strongest correlation, and is the primary reason I include NC in this at all. IS's 674 is scathing against NC and calls out a lot of scummy, anti-town actions, but IS instead thinks he is a VI, not scum. Blatant distancing IMO.

IS-Umbrage:

IS has failed to acknowledge Umbrage almost at all, despite Umbrage being in the spotlight for much of the game. Smells to me of scum trying to avoid connections with each other. Lack of connection is a connection all its own. On Umbrage's end, he has acknowledged IS ONCE.

Umbrage-NC:

Another no-connection-connection. Or maybe that's just Nero.

[Internet Stranger]

In post #681, I guess I didnt make it explicit enough for the general audience, but the fact that Shadow flat out refuses to hammer Chess implies to me that Chess is more likely innocent than scum and that Shadow is definitely the scum.

[Shadow1psc]

@Doom - I look bad (thanks to IS) in any situation, but I look the least bad if I don't move on CK, whom I believe is still null. The fact that CK did the same to me (didn't hammer, when everyone was clammoring for my head) made me take a second look at both him as VI and possible town. I feel much more strongly about IS, and to a lesser extent, Umbrage. My weapon is my vote, and I have placed it squarely where I believe scum lies.

[Shadow1psc]

In post #681, I guess I didnt make it explicit enough for the general audience, but the fact that Shadow flat out refuses to hammer Chess implies to me that Chess is more likely innocent than scum and that Shadow is definitely the scum.

You keep contradicting yourself. You set up a situation where if one town (me) doesn't hammer (whom I believe to be) another town, you can paint either of us as scum when the other flips eventually.

A) If I hammered CK and he flips town - I look like scum for hammering town.
B) If I hammered CK and he flips scum - I look like scum bussing a buddy.
If I abstain, and the lynch diverts back to me...
C) I flip town, CK looks like scum trying to get towncred.
D) I flip scum, and CK is painted as protecting his scum buddy.

I've seen all these points presented in one way or another.