Newbie 1046: Game Over

[StefanB]

Poe: Okay about your suspicion on Ghostlin: Now the make some sense. I am not the only one who can be confusing. I'm not sure if I believe it, but that case makes sense.
If you think that hurristats post was weak why don't you attack it more concret? I you don't understand it, ask questions. You are the first one to answere the attacks on you, even if they are a so bad, that you think they are very bad. You remember the situation with WIR you answered whit being potty trained? We have a similar situation here.
The question of Deer I don't think is strange, we had some very similar situations in the game bevor, why do you find it only strange, when you are at the reciving end?

[GLaDOS]

Day One Vote Count #7

3 AwesomePoe (chkflip, hurristat, StefanB)
2 WhenInRome (AwesomePoe, Ghostlin)
1 nikitakit (Deer)

With

9

alive it takes

5

to lynch. Deadline is January 27 at 7:30 PM CST.

Not Voting – 3 – Haylen, nikitakit, WhenInRome

[chkflip]

I'm quite busy IRL right now so I'll have to catch back up when I can - just kinda proddodging atm.

[Haylen]

I will do 'The Missing Analysis' on Monday, I could get it done tomorrow at a big push but I know I'm gonna be working then studying all round the clock tomorrow - I'm not even sure if I'll have time to sleep...

To give you a bit of an update on what I have been reading.
Stefan is my strongest town read at the moment - we WILL NOT be lynching him today unless he claims scum.
Unfortunately, the majority of people here at the present time are neutral reads, I would be comfortable in lynching none of you. It's annoying but that's the way some games go, especially on Day One.

[WhenInRome]

I will do 'The Missing Analysis' on Monday, I could get it done tomorrow at a big push but I know I'm gonna be working then studying all round the clock tomorrow - I'm not even sure if I'll have time to sleep...

To give you a bit of an update on what I have been reading.
Stefan is my strongest town read at the moment - we WILL NOT be lynching him today unless he claims scum.
Unfortunately, the majority of people here at the present time are neutral reads, I would be comfortable in lynching none of you. It's annoying but that's the way some games go, especially on Day One.

Okay, first of all, the "we WILL NOT" comment just seems out of place. The fact is, if he gets enough votes, we will lynch him. That comment makes it seem like you are telling us what to do, which is a scumtell. Poe is my main suspect, but it's a bad idea to put him at L-1 so early. So for now:
VOTE: Haylen

[Haylen]

Umm...leading the town is not a scumtell. You need to try and find a persons intent aswell, my intent was that we didn't lynch my strongest town read and other peoples strongest town read cause I'm pretty sure he's flip town of some description. What's scummy about not wanting a probable townie lynched?

[Ghostlin]

I will do 'The Missing Analysis' on Monday, I could get it done tomorrow at a big push but I know I'm gonna be working then studying all round the clock tomorrow - I'm not even sure if I'll have time to sleep...

To give you a bit of an update on what I have been reading.
Stefan is my strongest town read at the moment - we WILL NOT be lynching him today unless he claims scum.
Unfortunately, the majority of people here at the present time are neutral reads, I would be comfortable in lynching none of you. It's annoying but that's the way some games go, especially on Day One.

Okay, first of all, the "we WILL NOT" comment just seems out of place. The fact is, if he gets enough votes, we will lynch him. That comment makes it seem like you are telling us what to do, which is a scumtell. Poe is my main suspect, but it's a bad idea to put him at L-1 so early. So for now:
VOTE: Haylen

I actually agree with the lady's opinion on this one and this vote almost seems like a muffle of some sort. Stefan has been responsible to keep the town moving and his subsequent actions have been undeniably pro-town here on Day 1. Haylen, while not horribly active, is correct when she says that we shouldn't lynch Stefan on Day 1 unless he claims a scum role or makes a horrible play in judgement, it's counter town's goals to lynch someone who is most likely town. This seems to be a muffle to stop Haylen from continuing to contribute when she wrote a statement worded rather strongly: We will not lynch StefanB today unless he claims scum into leading the town for scummy reasons. The fact is, Stefan's been one of our most active posters and has said a lot to scum hunt. Why

would

we vote him?

Also, this is a rather weak reason to vote someone; I've said things to town in games before that were statements I thought were obvious and directing. If we're not confident with our suspicions, then how can we convince anyone else of them and win this game? This almost seems like a defacto way to discredit Haylen. In addition to your other actions, it makes me MORE confident in my vote for you.

[StefanB]

First of Haylen sleeping is more important than answering this post fast.

I'm a little bit confused why Haylen post this now, I'm not in that much danger to be lynched. So even if the point don't try to lynch your strongest towntell is a good advice (for town it would be in most cases, going against playing to win), the timing is confusing.
WIR: Of course you can try to lynch me, if 5 players vote me, I will be lynched. Haylen has no way to stop that. She is just a normal player. The question is more if you agree with her (in the case that you see me as town), why would you?
More and more I'm looking at scum-WIR.

Vote: WIR

I also have a townread (it's not Haylen), and I don't not want this person to be lynched today. I would say who this is because I'm not sure if that info helps town more than scum.
People who try to lead town are not necesarry scum. They are just very confident. Just look at a few games you will probably find a lot of games where a townplayer was leading town. I have problems with blind following them, because you should allways think for yourself. The question is always if the advice is a good one. Haylen is as IC someone who makes sense that she will try to lead the town:
a) she is more experianced, than most other people in the game. (If not all, SCs can be experienced, too)
b) she is a teacher here, thats in my experiance a small step to trying to lead.
Of course the first think in chosing a person to lynch is the question if you think he or she is scummy. (Even in deadline thats better but there a lynch is better than a no lynch)

[chkflip]

Ughhh emergency LA until Wednesday, something just came up with my Mother. Please don't replace me, I'll shoot everything up upon my return.

[hurristat]

While Haylen worded what she said pretty strongly, I don't consider it a scumtell at all, I just see it as a townie worrying about all the rest of the town and making sure they don't mislynch.

WIR's vote seems based on very iffy fact. I had my eye on WIR. It's upgrading to:

FoS: WhenInRome

And w/r/t AwesomePoe's rebuttal to my arguments are less solid than he argues my argument is. Until he attempts a rebuttal further than "your argument sucks," I'm leaving my vote on him.

chkflip: Hopefully whatever issue came up, it is resolved in the most positive way possible.

[nikitakit]

Haylen's comment was worded way to strongly, I think. I hardly like the tone of it, but the advice itself is fine. I don't like WhenInRome's response at all. Some of the other people here pointed out timing suspicions, etc, but Haylen's one post and the arguments WIR gave don't justify a Haylen vote. He's my #1 suspect, so if he weren't at L-2 my vote would be on him immediately. As it is, I'm going to withhold my vote for now. I'm much too sleepy right now to post anything longer than this, everything else will have to wait until tomorrow.

[StefanB]

First of I don't know if I can post tomorrow and on wednesday. Just to sure, consider me to be v/la on this days.

Then I not giving just my townread, I will give you a list of all players in order from town to scummy as hell.

First town:

Ghostlin

: While I will not go as far as Haylen, I see him as the most town.

Probably town:

Deer

: Even if his postingstyle makes him difficult to read he is playing a solid game. Looks very protown.

At the moment I see them as town, but that could chance from strongest to weakest:

So I have a little problem. To players are for me at nearly the same level. I will use the old saying ladys first:

Haylen

: Looks helpful to town (not counting the ICWork that we don't have to discuss), helped us quite a lot, just for me not so easy to read, makes some post, that I just ask myself why, but who ever said women were easy to understand. My gut is warning me against her, but she hasn't down anything antitown.

Chkflip

: Seems to have some bad luck at the moment, so he can't be very active (That seems to be a side wide problem), so he is not that easy to read. Has made some good points in his post, so like Haylen he seems more protown.

Hurristat

: Isn't that much active. But what I like is that he seems to be trying. Can easyly move up or down.

Scummy:

Nikitakit

: I considere him being an active lurker. He is sometimes a little better than other times, but I don't think his postings are very strong.

Poe

: Sometimes there, sometimes not. Hasn't done much that game than tunelling on WIR. (Who is scummy as it's get, I give him that) and he hasn't really build a second case. His try on Ghostlin was so bad, that it made him imho worse. If he is town, he should try harder.

WIR

: Okay where to start. Has played a very bad game, his last 2 posts were extremly bad. Would need somethink big to make me not like that vote. Two thinks that I ask myself: If WIR is scum, who could be his partner? Is this perhabs a to obvious target?

So my list town-scum:

1. Ghostlin
2. Deer
3. Haylen
Chkflip
5. Huristat
6. Nikitakit
7. Poe
8. WIR

[Deer]

I still am really thinking Nikitakit is scummy. The active lurking really doesn't help.

[Ghostlin]

More likely to be scum:

WIR:

For as much as he's here, he acutally doesn't post much content. There's a lot of 'I'm still here,' when you read in iso. His largest analysis post wasn't a post so much as a pick the rest of town part session, and has similar logic used against Poe that he uses against Haylen in 129. Not posting much + crap logic= probable scum.

AP:

When you read between the lines, AP doesn't say much. He's also posted five-six times this game. I disagree what he says in ISO 4, and it almost, rereading it seems like he's defending anyone who hammers scum on Day 1 as not scum. If a scum thinks the jig is up, they will throw their buddy under the bus, Day 1 or Lylo. He spends a lot of time defending himself, but I've not seen an expansion on his suspicions, and his last post was about three days ago.

nikitanit:

You promised us reads, and you've not delivered. You've posted about as much as WIR/AP. The only thing you manage to say is that you think Haylen's seemingly Day 1 Finger of Innocence you dislike the tone of; then you dissolve into a distancing of WIR. I'd suspect scumbuddies, but it's too soon to tell, because your fear of L-1 and subsequent is valid and a town attitude.

The Rest of the Town, in order:

1) StefanB: Unless it meant today ended in a no lynch situation or you claim scum, I'm not voting for you today. Your posts are well thought out, you have great cases for your suspicions, and you generally want to play this game protown. (No lynch is bad today because it doesn't let us confirm the wagons and makes us essentally start over on Day 2 with this process.)
2) Deer: You tend towards brevity, which makes you hard to read (as a person), but unlike some folks I've read on this site, you do stop and explain who you're voting for and why.
3) Haylen: You've maintained a level of activity as IC, I wish I just had more. I'm looking forward to your next read.
4) Chkflip: You came roaring out with that analysis, and I understand your V-LA, hope your mother is doing better; I hope we can get more awesome analysis from you (and Haylen) too.
5) Hurristat: You tend very slightly towards netural by the lurking the game started out with, but you're getting better.

[Ghostlin]

EBWOP: Town's ranked from least scummy to neutral.

[hurristat]

Since it's the lastest fad, here's my list:

I'll start with town and go to scum

1) Ghostlin -- really helpful and gives great analysis and acts in the best interests in the town
2) StefanB -- really hard to decide who's more town between you and Ghostlin. Done the same things as Ghostlin, mostly, but marginally less town. (don't worry)
3) Deer -- hard to read due to his brevity (and I sympathize with that), but seems town, more so than chkflip and Haylen
4) chkflip -- even though he has been gone for a while due to intervening circumstances, he has been really helpful to the town in the periods he's been here.
5) Haylen -- not really very active, for an IC at least. Don't get an entirely town read from her, but still.
6) Nikitakit -- Keeps promising things he doesn't deliver. Actively lurks etc. This is where the mafia-ish-ness starts
7) WhenInRome -- When I did my read-through, I felt that he was maybe just misunderstood. This changed when he lynched Haylen.
8) AwesomePoe -- The combo of that whole thing with WhenInRome, and then refusing to answer my post, and semi-active lurking, gives him the spot that mafia despise the most.

[Ghostlin]

This changed when he lynched Haylen

No one's been lynched yet?

[Haylen]

Regarding inactivity, as I said I was recovering from flu, spent a load of time in hospital, then I had to do my assignment. I've also been completely deaf in one ear for 3 weeks - should see the doc about that.

I should have also mentioned beforehand, I occassionally make emotional and strong statements due to being a writer, I actually talk like that irl.

I too think WhenInRome was being quite opportunisic with his sudden voting for me and strawmanning a trivial subject. This is going to earn him a re-read from me and I have decided I currently wish to place my vote there as I don't have any other leads.

Vote WhenInRome

Nikitakit

Haylen's statement stands out a little because it takes a certain personality to say that kind of thing casually.

What kind of personality? You're saying stuff and not following it up -_-

Ghostlin:

#1 is misinterpreting my vote, which is still from RVS.

OMGUS attack. Not scummy but something worth keeping an eye on - more for credibility of reads than anything else.

Hee says that WIR is his top suspect, but then does not follow this up with a vote. That's called fencesitting and is scummy because it could allow him to later say that he posted suspicions on WIR being scum and getting away with it without arousing suspicion.

FoS Nikita

Not much else to comment on. Neutral leaning scum read on Nikita.

And the third installment with a Deer analysis coming tomorrow!

Ghostlin: Was that a Freudian slip? :O Do you and WhenInRome plan on getting me lynched?

[Haylen]

I meant Hurristat, not ghostlin.

[Ghostlin]

@Mod: Can I get a vote count, please?

No one

else

vote for WIR unless you want to be lynched soon after on D2, I believe that's L-1, which would OK if we want WIR to talk and do a claim.

@Everyone not WIR: is everyone comfortable with the idea of a WIR lynch, and do you want him to claim?

@WIR: Defense, please.

[Ghostlin]

@Mod: Can I get a vote count, please?

No one

else

vote for WIR unless you want to be lynched soon after on D2, I believe that's L-1, which would OK if we want WIR to talk and do a claim. [/b]

EBWOP: This is supposed to indicate if you hammer before WIR has a chance to claim/defend himself. We still want to get as much information as we can so NO ONE hammer WIR.

[GLaDOS]

Day One Vote Count #8

4 WhenInRome (AwesomePoe, Ghostlin, StefanB, Haylen)
2 AwesomePoe (chkflip, hurristat)
1 Haylen (WhenInRome)
1 nikitakit (Deer)

With

9

alive it takes

5

to lynch. Deadline is January 27 at 7:30 PM CST.

Not Voting – 1 – nikitakit

[hurristat]

hurristat: Was that a Freudian slip? :O Do you and WhenInRome plan on getting me lynched?

no, I, where I came from mafia-wise, we have a lexicon where "lynching" is often synonymous to "voting"

I meant "voting," not "lynching"

[AwesomePoe]

This post stood out to me:

Random thoughts aren't constructive. They don't make good cases for voting, nor do they clarify another person's actions. Reading your post, WhenInRome, I don't understand what point any of these thoughts make.

WhenInRome was adding his input to the town, and AwesomePoe dismisses it as "not constructive" and "pointless." As far as I'm concerned, any input is helpful, even if they're mafia -- they could slip up and make a mistake, and if they're town, they probably have good ideas that the rest of the town can benefit from (which is why my lurking is so bad). Trying to shut someone up because you don't like their argument...

Here is the thing, there weren’t any arguments in WIR iso9 that I found informative. The case against me is based on my reaction to WIR09. You can objectively see my FoS turn into a vote after WIR09. This can be seen as tunneling. However the content of WIR09 and its meaningfulness is subjective. Most of his points were parroted from other posters. To me, he wasn’t being constructive he was trying to look like town without putting in the effort. This couple with his vote on Deer convinced me to put my vote on him.

AP didn't say anything until chkflip's diagnosis, where s/he said this:

I am being cautious around people who seem to be friendly.

yes, and this is good... but it's almost like s/he's looking for a reason to vote/put an FoS on someone, and not allowing the target of the FoS to exonerate themselves. Ultimately, all the town has on their side is logic and reason, and s/he dismisses it as "not constructive" and "pointless."

Many other people have asked for his defense which he has yet to provide. You can’t say I’m not allowing him to exonerate himself when others have asked for it, and they haven’t had their concerns answered. I throw up my hands because I’m powerless to control WIR posting. As soon as people have a reason to remove their votes on him, they will.

@Ghostlin & Everybody: I want to see WIR claim and defend himself from the very possible lynch.

[nikitakit]

WhenInRome: I want you to roleclaim or otherwise defend yourself.

If he doesn't offer anything to his defense, I'll be willing to hammer.

Haylen's statement stands out a little because it takes a certain personality to say that kind of thing casually. I don't know enough about Haylen's playing style to tell if it's scummy or not.

What kind of personality? You're saying stuff and not following it up -_-

Let me paraphrase my quote: "Haylen's statement stands out because only some people have the personality to say that kind of thing". In other words, the "before I die" comment is only a scumread if there is evidence that it contradicts your meta. I didn't indicate here that I would follow up on anything. (On the contrary, I said that I'll ignore the whole point, at least for the time being).


I still haven't posted some of my reads, I'll be finishing them up right now.