Cyclic Experimentation Set x01 - [Game Over]

[implosion]

The problem with lynching diddin is that if TMH passed the bus driving ability to diddin and TMH is mafia, isn't diddin confirmed town?

That's rather the point. If diddin is mafia, then TMH is confirmed town, and both of them have been scummy. If we lynch diddin today, we can clear TMH now AND remove the ability busdriver, whereas we want to wait until tomorrow to lynch TMH, since he has the dayvig. I'll go over both of them in ISO soon and see if one reeeeally stands out, but assuming they're about the same, I think that diddin should be the lynch today. It gives us more info, faster, which is reeeeeeally important right now.

Something is wrong here. TMH didn't claim to pass anything to Diddin. TMH's BD ability seems like it would override alignment restrictions. I'd like the BD ability removed from this game, but I don't think TMH has claimed who he sent it to yet.

diddin said that he received it. And quadz, I'm pretty damn sure tmh is mafia, and I'm pretty damn sure that 90% of the town is pretty damn sure that tmh is mafia, which makes a diddin lynch a mislynch. Bus driving seems like it would be a standard ability - but I'd suspect that actually using the ability could bypass passing restrictions.

[WrathChild]

The problem with lynching diddin is that if TMH passed the bus driving ability to diddin and TMH is mafia, isn't diddin confirmed town?

That's rather the point. If diddin is mafia, then TMH is confirmed town, and both of them have been scummy. If we lynch diddin today, we can clear TMH now AND remove the ability busdriver, whereas we want to wait until tomorrow to lynch TMH, since he has the dayvig. I'll go over both of them in ISO soon and see if one reeeeally stands out, but assuming they're about the same, I think that diddin should be the lynch today. It gives us more info, faster, which is reeeeeeally important right now.

Something is wrong here. TMH didn't claim to pass anything to Diddin. TMH's BD ability seems like it would override alignment restrictions. I'd like the BD ability removed from this game, but I don't think TMH has claimed who he sent it to yet.

diddin said that he received it. And quadz, I'm pretty damn sure tmh is mafia, and I'm pretty damn sure that 90% of the town is pretty damn sure that tmh is mafia, which makes a diddin lynch a mislynch. Bus driving seems like it would be a standard ability - but I'd suspect that actually using the ability could bypass passing restrictions.

That's right Diddin did claim it. + Town Diddin +Scum TMH

[StrangerCoug]

Mod: V/LA unter further notice. I think I blew the power supply to my computer.

I hope I didn't, but it's better to be safe than sorry.

[I Am Innocent]

The problem with lynching diddin is that if TMH passed the bus driving ability to diddin and TMH is mafia, isn't diddin confirmed town?

That's rather the point. If diddin is mafia, then TMH is confirmed town, and both of them have been scummy. If we lynch diddin today, we can clear TMH now AND remove the ability busdriver, whereas we want to wait until tomorrow to lynch TMH, since he has the dayvig. I'll go over both of them in ISO soon and see if one reeeeally stands out, but assuming they're about the same, I think that diddin should be the lynch today. It gives us more info, faster, which is reeeeeeally important right now.

Something is wrong here. TMH didn't claim to pass anything to Diddin. TMH's BD ability seems like it would override alignment restrictions. I'd like the BD ability removed from this game, but I don't think TMH has claimed who he sent it to yet.

diddin said that he received it. And quadz, I'm pretty damn sure tmh is mafia, and I'm pretty damn sure that 90% of the town is pretty damn sure that tmh is mafia, which makes a diddin lynch a mislynch. Bus driving seems like it would be a standard ability - but I'd suspect that actually using the ability could bypass passing restrictions.

Yes and three people have now pushed the Diddin lynch which is really pinging my scumdar. Quadz, Bunnylover, and RC

[StrangerCoug]

Mod: Out of V/LA. I fortunately just disconnected my power supply from my motherboard by mistake.

[I Am Innocent]

Well it appears that we have come to an agreement on who should hold the bomb between 3 people.
Myself (although I disagree on this lol).
Saint (Pefectly fine with this).
DBE (Not really seeing a reason not to keep the virus on him/her).
Other then these three people, no one name is mentioned.
We need to keep the virus between these three people.
If for some reason another person gets the virus, the previous owner should either be day kill by the vig or lynch as their is only two reason why you wouldn't keep the bomb on these three.

I think we either nail it down to 1) one candidate and ask for a claim or 2) pass it between two known suspicious vanilla players.

For #1, I stick by WrathChild, Darla, or BunnyLover. I do not stick by Diddin or Saint. There are a few more I would be okay with that I do not see gathering another steam, and a few others that I have strong town reads of but do not see being selected either.

For #2, BunnyLover has claimed Vanilla and Darla has offered to suicide which crumbs of Vanilla. They would probably be my suggestion.

I also do not suggest handing the potato to Saint. He very well could have a role, so no point to pass it there unless we go with #1 and he is the pick.

[I Am Innocent]

EBWOP: "another" should have read as "enough"

[Saint]

i passed the virus to nhammen
lets make 75 posts really quickly so we can confirm my slot is town

[Saint]

i am NOT caught up, although i've read page 46 (so maybe I am?)
i expected the bomb to die with darla, honestly, and her to be scum
her recent post doesn't convince me that she is not blue, but Vi has convinced me to wait to d3 to push her if noone gets doctor

Vi doesn't like nhammen, Vi has great reads usually, so lets let the virus be a town kill and get posts out there

[Saint]

p.s. keep in mind it's 75 posts AFTER the mod notifies the person, although they might not pick up their PM

me being passed the virus by 2 people lowers the chance i'm scum if it can't be passed between factions
i know that point has been hit, but can someone clarify that for me? can it be?

[quadz08]

To my knowledge, the virus can be passed between scumpartners, as it is a non-standard ability. At least, that is our best guess.

Back to ISOing diddin and and TMH I go!

[WrathChild]

To my knowledge, the virus can be passed between scumpartners, as it is a non-standard ability. At least, that is our best guess.

Back to ISOing diddin and and TMH I go!

How do you know it can be passed between scum buddies, have you tried?

[WrathChild]

To my knowledge, the virus can be passed between scumpartners, as it is a non-standard ability. At least, that is our best guess.

Back to ISOing diddin and and TMH I go!

How do you know it can be passed between scum buddies, have you tried?

"Can't be"

Anyways, I agree that it is probably not a standard ability.

[StrangerCoug]

lets let the virus be a town kill

THE HELL!?

[Bunnylover]

Ok I seriously think Saint should die <_<.
The virus can be passed between anyone, regardless of alignement.

[popsofctown]

let's ritual sacrifice DBE.


It depends on the interpretation of the role pm whether the person has to read it. i lean towards they have to read it

[nhammen]

When I was no longer V/LA, I'm sure an experienced player like yourself could see I was able to do more than defend myself.

That's not what my "actively trying to avoid negative attention on D1" comment about you involved. My comment was about you saying that someone "put up a lame pointless vote on me (for Unvoting a RVS Vote) and figured he was baiting me into OMGUS voting him to drive his case further. I wasn't going to let him have that satisfaction, so I just refrained from voting him". This is the first scummy thing I saw from you.

I am speculating that mafia killed MoI and Bunny killed Chk.

I don't get this

What's not to get? He has explained this comment already. Now, you can argue with the explanation, but I don't see how you can say you don't get something he has explained.

@ Anyone who passed a role last night, please say if you sent it to
1) MOI
2) Chkflp
3) Someone else

3) Someone else

I am saying the move is suspicious...scum would want to vig ability for themselves to take out townies...if today he kills someone and it ends up being scum, not as suspicious...but if he hits a townie, it doubles the suspicion in my eyes...

Scum would also want the vig ability for themselves to keep it out of town hands, while still leaving a player that most people considered to be scummy on D1. Just another reason that I find tmh's move to be highly scummy. There is so much scum motivation for it, and so little town motivation.

@the Bunnylover slip; IMO Bunny is town. I think the mistake is just thinking that the "void" of the VT PM is an ability and getting confused over that. I can see town doing this, even if I am the one who found the slip first.

@DBE/LMP 987-988; agreed with LMP 100%.

@IAI 991; Treestumping tmh tomorrow is a good idea. It could both get rid of the treestump and (bonus) assuming tmh is scum (which I am about 99% sure of) it can confirm curiouskarmadog's alignment; if he fails to treestump tmh, he's mafia. If the treestump dies with tmh, he's town. What do people think about this plan?

Agree, agree, and I like this plan. If tmh flips scum, it confirms diddin, ckd, and whoever tmh passes the vig to. If tmh flips town, it still gets rid of one of the most anti-town abilities in this game. Very nicely done. We can also get rid of the stealing ability if diddin passes it to tmh, but there are two questions related to this: A) does the stealing ability have to be passed to the person that you steal from, or did that only happen in this case? B) Do we want to give up on using the stealing ability for confirmation? I think for B, the answer is obviously yes. Stealing in the hands of scum can wreak havoc on all of our confirmation stuff, and it is better not to have this ability in the game.

Plus I'm p. sure Wrathchild is Town getting framed.

The other good targets IMO (note that Furcolow's views are not my own and I haven't pressed my views on Furcolow) are:
*nhammen (rep. EtherealCookie)
*popsofctown
*Bunnylover
roughly in order of preference. I've wanted those first two to die, like, all game and no time is too soon.

I'd like Vi to explain why he believes A) Wrath is framed Town, and B) why these three (including myself) are "good targets". Unless he sees that as being beyond what he is supposed to be doing in this game. (If I am understandng the intent of this hydra correctly)

The other good targets IMO (note that Furcolow's views are not my own and I haven't pressed my views on Furcolow) are:
*nhammen (rep. EtherealCookie)
*popsofctown
*Bunnylover
roughly in order of preference. I've wanted those first two to die, like, all game and no time is too soon.

QFT

Don't worry, I think there's a better consensus for that.

Agreed.

So are those your four best targets for the virus? Also, why are you just agreeing instead of adding your own comments.

I got the virus and passed it to Darla, as she seems to be scummy, and more people agree about Darla than Wrath. I'd prefer if it was passed between Darla and Wrath, but I'd like to hear other peoples' ideas.

[popsofctown]

@the Bunnylover slip; IMO Bunny is town. I think the mistake is just thinking that the "void" of the VT PM is an ability and getting confused over that. I can see town doing this, even if I am the one who found the slip first.

@DBE/LMP 987-988; agreed with LMP 100%.

@IAI 991; Treestumping tmh tomorrow is a good idea. It could both get rid of the treestump and (bonus) assuming tmh is scum (which I am about 99% sure of) it can confirm curiouskarmadog's alignment; if he fails to treestump tmh, he's mafia. If the treestump dies with tmh, he's town. What do people think about this plan?

Agree, agree, and I like this plan. If tmh flips scum, it confirms diddin, ckd, and whoever tmh passes the vig to. If tmh flips town, it still gets rid of one of the most anti-town abilities in this game. Very nicely done. We can also get rid of the stealing ability if diddin passes it to tmh, but there are two questions related to this: A) does the stealing ability have to be passed to the person that you steal from, or did that only happen in this case? B) Do we want to give up on using the stealing ability for confirmation? I think for B, the answer is obviously yes. Stealing in the hands of scum can wreak havoc on all of our confirmation stuff, and it is better not to have this ability in the game.

You realize... the treestump... makes you unlynchable. You can't pass it to TMH and say "bwahaha, we shall lynch TMH and get rid of the tree stump!"

I don't know why people are acting like tmh has been cop investigated.

We should ritual sacrifice darla. Darla don't pass the virus.

[nhammen]

know, we can't lynch tmh, but we can Virus or Daykill him

[nhammen]

EBWOP: I know,

[diddin]

The cycling of the ability I got works totally differently than the redirection.

Here's how it works: I pick two people. Let's call them A and B. When I use my power, any powers A would pass off instead get passed off to B. So last night, when tmh had the power, I was A and he was B.

I can then pass off the power as usual.

[Saint]

I'd like Vi to explain why he believes A) Wrath is framed Town, and B) why these three (including myself) are "good targets". Unless he sees that as being beyond what he is supposed to be doing in this game. (If I am understandng the intent of this hydra correctly)

I said it, so I can be held accountable for it.

I'm not going to be able to get a response out tonight though. Sorry

[I Am Innocent]

The other good targets IMO (note that Furcolow's views are not my own and I haven't pressed my views on Furcolow) are:
*nhammen (rep. EtherealCookie)
*popsofctown
*Bunnylover
roughly in order of preference. I've wanted those first two to die, like, all game and no time is too soon.

QFT

Don't worry, I think there's a better consensus for that.

Agreed.

So are those your four best targets for the virus? Also, why are you just agreeing instead of adding your own comments.

I got the virus and passed it to Darla, as she seems to be scummy, and more people agree about Darla than Wrath. I'd prefer if it was passed between Darla and Wrath, but I'd like to hear other peoples' ideas.

See Post 1155 for my strategy today. If you want my top scum read, it is TMH then Pops. TMH does not make sense as I want the Dayvig power to stay in the game, and Pops does not seem to be a target in most players eyes. So I gave an alternative.

Also I agree with Posts for a few reasons which I already explained earlier in the game:

@IAI: How about you post your own content instead of just QFTing posts you agree with?

Reasons for my QFT
1) I was 11 pages behind and most of the topics of discussion where already discussed. Note I did add a few items, look at how q21 responded to EC, nobody mentioned that.
2) In a big game like this, the QFT let's me go back and ISO myself to make sure I am not forgetting something I earlier suspected. Never played in a game this big that I did alot of/any rereads.
3) I am taking a stance by saying where I stand on issues. Stances are good for town, bad for scum.

Though I am no longer behind on my reading, #2 and #3 still apply.

The cycling of the ability I got works totally differently than the redirection.

Here's how it works: I pick two people. Let's call them A and B. When I use my power, any powers A would pass off instead get passed off to B. So last night, when tmh had the power, I was A and he was B.

I can then pass off the power as usual.

You can pass it off without using it though, correct? If so, that is what you are planning on doing tonight, correct?

[nhammen]

Wow, DBE sent me the virus, in spite of never having indicated suspicion of me, iirc

She did voice a little bit of suspicion of you in her ISO 8, but didn't follow up on it. In fact, that's the only time she mentions you. I think we have a Mafiosa, and her name is DBE.

UNVOTE: Bunnylover
VOTE: DarlaBlueEyes

Yeah, good evidence. Also, thanks for doing the background check on Darla. Seems to imply to me that if one of you is scum, the other isn't.

You know if Diddin indeed has the Bus Driver Ability, that he cannot be scum teammates with TMH, right?

You know that we can be wrong either way. We can't assume that our reads are correct. That way leads to confirmation bias. So yes, both are scummy, but only one can be scum. We have ideas and hypotheses about which one, but we can't know until a flip. So what are you saying here, Innocent?

I’m liking LMP’s case on Darla more and more as I read it… hm.

Prama too. After he came back and pretty much said "I can't scum hunt without an ability!!!"

When was this, exactly? I don’t recall him saying anything resembling that.

Agree with both of these statements in post 1100, but I don't think I agree with the repeated Parama bashing that occurs later in this post, except the argument int the following quote:

Parama’s reread post (898) is basically completely useless:
First, he says q21 should die based on post count. This is not a bad point, though the reaction is rather strong.
Second, he makes a useless comment about TL and how scummy he is / how his replacement is confirmed town (which, btw, he never explained.)
Then, he points out 7 quotes/posts. 3 of them hadn’t been mentioned before, 2 of them were “hey go town this guy’s dead,” and 2 of them had been thoroughly discussed before. The 3 new things he mentioned (pops’ quote, “let’s play the passive game” and “This just looks so fake”) have no further explanation about them. He posts those quotes, and that’s it.
He also mentioned being unsure about pops’ push on muh (or something? I’m not even sure, actually.) and me being boneheaded and obsessive about little things (with no examples).
Then comes a scumlist, and a declaration of 75% accuracy. (3 of the 4 people on his list are apparently scum. Impressive for someone whose scumhunting is more or less nonexistent. Seriously, look at his ISO. The post I’m talking about now is the closest thing to scumhunting he’s got.)
I guess he’s still in the process of rereading the rest, like he said he would. Or maybe he’s not. Y’know. Whatev.

Q21's 897 sucked.

Why does it suck, exactly?

Yeah, I don't see a problem with that post.

Overall, Darla sucks, diddin still sucks, Nero still sucks, WC sucks less, nhammen doesn't suck (though I'm ready for something other than catch-up posts), Parama still sucks, IAI doesn't suck, Bunny sucks, TMH sucks a LOT.

Agree about Darla, diddin, Nero, and WC (except for the less part). Disagree about Parama and Bunny. Agree about TMH. Also, something is creeping me out about how you have frequently stated I am town or have defended me. It's like an ex-girlfriend repeatedly trying to get back together. And in fast moving games, I tend to use catchup posts frequently. You'll just have to deal with that.

Darla is scum btw, might give an explanation later.

Please do that now.


Bunny why is your brain picking Saint over Darla?

Reminding players to answer these.

Hrm.... so I'm guessing there's an SK? Either that or a vig but if there's a vig the ability probably cycles so I don't know that it's much use trying to get anything from that.

Why are you guessing there's an SK? What about another ability? What about multiple scumteams? Why even speculate on this at all unless you have knowledge that I don't have.

I never saw this. Nice catch.

@q21 #1128: This case against DBE, in combination with everything else, is quite compelling.

Bunnylover, WC, and Darla are probably the best three choices for the bomb right now.

I do not advocate Diddin or Saint. My gut tells me people would love to have Saint (or should I say Vi) out of this game.

If I am right about pops being scum, quadz is a possible teammate. Something to keep an eye on.

I disagree about Bunny, but agree about all of the rest. The buddying that quadz is doing may be nothing, or it may be another sign of what you are suggesting. So my three suggested kills for today are DBE, WC, and Nero Cain. Of these three, Nero has the fewest connections, so I would like him to be the lynch after the other two are taken out by Virus and Daykill.

Well, let's say that we decide to wait and lynch theman. Okay. Worst case scenario.

Darla gets stuck with the Virus and flips town.
theman shoots WC and flips town.
We lynch Saint and he flips town.
Then two more town deaths at night. That's five more townies dead.

I'm not saying this will all happen if we don't go after diddin now, but I am saying we shouldn't spare diddin if we think he's scum just because we want to get a town confirmation from lynching theman tomorrow. We're already on a bad footing. That said, if a majority of the town thinks diddin is honestly not a good lynch, then that's a completely different story. I'll build a case against him with pleasure.

I feel that there is more of a case against tmh than diddin. And since we pretty much know that they can't both be scum (although they could be lying about the ability), I'm more inclined towards a tmh lynch tomorrow. Also, why did you list Saint for the lynch?

I'm with RC; let's flip it, and lynch diddin today, since we can't lynch TMH cause of his ability. Which actually reminds me: does no one else find it suspicious that diddin is still alive today, even though he held the dayvig power? Cause I do.

tmh being scum would explain that.

Actually, this is a really good point. I would have assumed that since the virus had gone off D1, that it was simply gone, and the dayvig power was free to use for the rest of the game. It coming back today was unexpected, and I assume it would have been unexpected for TMH as well... well said, IAI.

Agree here.

Well it appears that we have come to an agreement on who should hold the bomb between 3 people.
Myself (although I disagree on this lol).
Saint (Pefectly fine with this).
DBE (Not really seeing a reason not to keep the virus on him/her).
Other then these three people, no one name is mentioned.
We need to keep the virus between these three people.
If for some reason another person gets the virus, the previous owner should either be day kill by the vig or lynch as their is only two reason why you wouldn't keep the bomb on these three.

I disagree about you and Saint. My three are listed above.

i passed the virus to nhammen
lets make 75 posts really quickly so we can confirm my slot is town

It was established early on D1 that the Virus cannot confirm alignment. The mod was asked about this.

her recent post doesn't convince me that she is not blue, but Vi has convinced me to wait to d3 to push her if noone gets doctor

I have some role information from my role last night related to this. I'm not sure if I should claim it now, or wait to claim tomorrow to hopefully catch someone in a trap. Just letting you know, there is something you are missing from the picture.

[diddin]

I'm guessing I can take no action as the rules say nothin about being unable to. If so I'll do nothing with the power and pass it to tmh if we lynch him tomorrow.