Mini 1090: Of Rogues and Curses ~ Game Over

[inHimshallibe]

"clearing Uite doesn't seem worth it"

should be

"clearing Uite doesn't seem worth a no-kill"

[nocase]

i checked tans. he has needles.

vote: mothrax.

[mothrax]

I rbd tans last night.

[inHimshallibe]

i checked tans. he has needles.

vote: mothrax.

Oh yeah, semi-forgot about the flavor claim on Uite. Maybe it's Troll.

[inHimshallibe]

I rbd tans last night.

And this is a delayed effect, yes?

[Uite]

Uite could very well be the last scum who really was blocked by mothrax, and Vi's role would die on Night 3 regardless. He now rises to the top of the list Today. I see no reason for scum to no-kill unless they couldn't; clearing Uite doesn't seem worth it.

What? This doesn't even make sense. What do you really mean by all this?

I rbd tans last night.

So if he's the scum, that means no kill tonight? Though I wonder, since kills are apparently delayed, does it still go through if the originator has been lynched?

[mothrax]

@inhim: yes, my rb will be delayed, as in if I got it right there will be no kill tonight.

[inHimshallibe]

Uite could very well be the last scum who really was blocked by mothrax, and Vi's role would die on Night 3 regardless. He now rises to the top of the list Today. I see no reason for scum to no-kill unless they couldn't; clearing Uite doesn't seem worth it.

What? This doesn't even make sense. What do you really mean by all this?

Hold up just a sec, and follow the rest of my post. Read the flavor of the Night scene again. It points to no Servika making a kill, but of Vi dying of natural causes.

[nocase]

i checked tans. he has needles.

vote: mothrax.

Oh yeah, semi-forgot about the flavor claim on Uite. Maybe it's Troll.

troll claimed to give me day vig and uncced in that regard. he also played a key role in both scum lynches.

why does everyone keep ruling out mothrax? just because he supposedly has a scummy play style doesn't mean he didn't get a mafia role pm at the start of mini 1090. also, he claimed to have "been trying to get to [his] computer to post a seraphim vote for a while and never got a chance" but if you look at his posting history you'll see he made a post in a different game four minutes before he posted his hammer on seraphim. the whole spiel was bizarrely paranoid and survivalist even without that information. if he was desperately trying to get in a vote and his computer was being so stubborn then why would he just switch over to another game and somehow get in a post like he did?

[inHimshallibe]

i checked tans. he has needles.

vote: mothrax.

Oh yeah, semi-forgot about the flavor claim on Uite. Maybe it's Troll.

troll claimed to give me day vig and uncced in that regard. he also played a key role in both scum lynches.

why does everyone keep ruling out mothrax? just because he supposedly has a scummy play style doesn't mean he didn't get a mafia role pm at the start of mini 1090. also, he claimed to have "been trying to get to [his] computer to post a seraphim vote for a while and never got a chance" but if you look at his posting history you'll see he made a post in a different game four minutes before he posted his hammer on seraphim. the whole spiel was bizarrely paranoid and survivalist even without that information. if he was desperately trying to get in a vote and his computer was being so stubborn then why would he just switch over to another game and somehow get in a post like he did?

Yeah, I really don't know why I'm not harping on mothrax; I've thought him scum on again, off again. Right now I'm trying to make sense of Vi's death and how that fits into our claims.

mothrax is my first choice to lynch. Followed by Uite and tanstalas.

[Zorblag]

OK, we have all the claims from night actions that we expect. I didn't use my remove curse beer last night so I've still got that, but it is now time to share my thoughts on what the curse might do.

The three ideas that I had in mind yesterday are as follows:

• Exe's role was able to curse somehow and we killed him before it became an issue; my remove curse is no longer important to the game.
  
• Vi had a curse that they weren't sharing information about with us. This became much less likely as Vi said more for the rest of the day.
  
• The remaining scum individually or as a group have some curse ability that didn't get claimed that I can still counter.

Based on character names and flavor it seems most likely to me that Exe, Vi or inHimshallibe would be the one able to give curses. I expect that Vi didn't have that ability but I want them to comment on these ideas when they post so we'll get that then. I can't imagine that inHimshallibe would have chosen to keep a curse to himself up till now if he's town so that's only an avenue to pursue if we think there's a chance of some sort of Godfather to the thief something going on (which doesn't seem likely to me.) Exe having access to a curse is possible; there's no reason to think that he revealed his entire role and I don't know what else Temptress might entail offhand.

There's also some (fairly small) chance that my remove curse potion will stop a kill (which would fall into the third category.) I strongly suspect that nocase should be the next kill as he's pretty much the most obv town of the remaining players based on my investigation (I know that he's a member of the Ungrika clan) an as such I my plan is to try and use it on him tonight just in case it can stop a kill.

@Vi, at this point we should have a no kill that we can use at some point if we aren't sure about lynches. If there are four scum then this is MyLo this is the best time to use it. If there are three scum then we're safe taking our best shot today (and hopefully winning and making all of this discussion moot.) I'd like to hear your opinion about whether it's worth being paranoid and using that today or going ahead with the lynch. After the end of the day yesterday I'm inclined to say that there really shouldn't be four scum and that mothrax is a good enough lynch for today that we should just go ahead and take the lynch (especially because, as a fallback, if there are four scum he's almost certainly one of them) but I'd like to hear your opinion as well as the opinions of the other dead.

If there's a better lynch then make that case and if you think no lynch is the better option please let us know. If we're missing anything key please fill us in. In particular if you've got any last insights about my remove curse ability I'd like to hear them; right now it's too inert. Do you think that I should hold off on my remove curse ability rather than using it on nocase tongiht?

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

[mothrax]

A1) trying to get

to

my computer, not get my computer to. When I got home I logged in and checked my subscriptions and responded to a game with a new post before this one, so sorry that you didn't understand that nocase.

[mothrax]

That being said, I don't really get inhim's theory, and stick to the fact that Uite is cleared. I am much more comfortable with a tans lynch ATM, but I will wait and see what VI says before I vote

[tanstalas]

I have no qualms in lynching Mothrax. Waiting for Vi and company to post their thoughts.

I'm also thinking inHim might be scum, just the fact his abilities are instant where everyone else's are delayed, and I really do not like the flavor role name he has, sounds sinister. Though his ability (if true) would make no sense for a scum to have - unless Ythill put it in just to make that role seem more townie.

Also his reads seem to be way over the place lately. On ISO-80 he called me town, then in 84 he said Seraphin then me then Mothrax were his top 3 suspects, today in iso 87 he said Uite could be the last scum, and then in 89 (I think I am reading this right?) he hints that Troll might be scum and then in ISO 92 he goes back to Mothrax being first choice followed by Uite and me

Though inHim would be my 3rd lynch and I am sure most of you think he is town, so either way if he is scum he has this game in the bag and he knows it

[nocase]

my abilitiwes are instant.

[nocase]

abilities.

[Vi]

The cloud of DOOM cometh.

------------------------First, process of elimination.

nocase is confirmed Town by Troll. The chance of Troll and nocase being scum together is nil, because nocase got his lycanthropy going and there's no way off earth that four scum and a daykill is balanced with the remaining roles.

inHim is, by our continued semi-existence, Town. It would be a cruel trick otherwise.

^^^^^These two are completely off limits.

There is an outside chance of Troll being scum. This would require him to be scum who can push a daykill onto a Townie (in which case he made a good choice <_< ), and presumably he's lying about the other beer. It's possible, but not plausible.

Uite and tanstalas are in an interesting position with gandalf's death. Right now we have no evidence that scum know anything about the V. Townie Role PM (except that they could get one, but it doesn't look like the two flipped scum bothered with that).
More importantly, it doesn't look like Ythill would have told them that the V. Townies could request flavor just like they could. tanstalas told me V. Townies could request flavor long before gandalf started talking about it, so I'm pretty solid on him actually being a V. Townie. As an aside, I actually DID request a V. Townie Role PM after Mariyta claimed, and I did NOT get an indication that I could request flavor (I didn't even get a Role PM proper ). In addition, notice that neither Exe nor xvart played a large part in discussing the details of requesting/flavor around Page 9.

As much as I would like Uite to DIAF, upon reconsideration he's probably more likely to be Town.
*While it was hinted that he had been investigated and had to claim his real role (thanks nocase), his minstrel claim lines up with what was expected earlier.
*There's still a chance that the roleblock works the way we thought before (we're still fuzzy on the mechanics of how it would work and the mod won't clarify).
*Post 203 was what gandalf called a "Town-slip" because he didn't consider mod-provided flavor. I don't have particular reason to believe he actually did or did not remember the mod-provided flavor, so etc. In 236, he said that his Role PM allowed him to request flavor (and this was a few posts before tanstalas said anything about it). Therefore if tanstalas is clear, Uite probably also has to be clear.

That leaves... mothrax, who can't be cleared by anyone and arguably doesn't clear anyone either (the fact that he didn't notice that he "cleared" Uite points to this).

-------------------------And some special topics.

nocase claims to have found needles (of all things) on a claimed hypnotist. This makes no sense whatsoever.

However, it WOULD make sense for a claimed tattoo artist (tanstalas) to have needles.

Now consider that mothrax claims to have roleblocked tanstalas. On one hand, it would make sense that you could roleblock a tattoo artist by taking his needles. On the other hand, it doesn't make sense for a hypnotist in particular to steal needles versus hypnotizing them into inaction.

My first thought (going along with "Curses" in the title) was that these needles are part of a fetish. (You didn't know this was Stars Aligned IV, did you?) However, there's a much more likely explanation.

Consider that xvart claimed to be a cutpurse. xvart claimed to have robbed Mariyta and gotten NOTHING. Given that Mariyta was a beggar in flavor, this actually makes sense. But xvart wasn't a cutpurse, so he either guessed that information or he got it from somewhere else.

Now reconsider that mothrax has needles from tanstalas. ...You can see where this is going.

Plus we're having a hard time figuring out how mothrax's roleblock would technically work anyway, so etc.

---

Troll is not a Doctor unless he either burned his ability prior to N3 or sent his action in well in advance, neither of which is likely. I was dead as soon as the Day ended. (but see the next section)

I know nothing about the kill flavor. I was not told how I would die and there's certainly no indication that I would die of natural causes. I still maintain I was killed by a night-time stuffiness beam *reference no one will get*

However, VP Baltar believes that I may have actually died of natural causes. I'm starting to come around to the idea. I mean really, my role was awesome AND NK-immune. Dying naturally would have been a decent way to balance it, and it would have given Troll's nocurse beer a use. There's nothing in my Role PM to suggest any of this, though - we're just working on the assumption that the Servika don't shoot flu darts at us.

Without knowing anything in this direction, Ockham's Razor goes the other way with it - if scum could have killed last Night, they would have. It really depends on whether the kill was exclusively due to illness, and I don't think we would be able to tell.

---

All of us are pretty unanimous that Uite looks so overwhelmingly like scum that we would have a hard time faulting his lynch.~ 973 looks horrible.

From mothrax's perspective voting tanstalas should be out of the question (he would know by the lack of kill later if he's scum), but lol, logic.

-----------------------------Teal Deer

So tealdeer - We really can't miss. One or both of Uite and mothrax are scum, and mothrax should definitely be the first to go. I must have skimmed past it but everyone else is saying tanstalas is obvTown, so what do I know. Mariyta is suspicious of Troll for starting to argue No Lynch, but only in the scenario that there is a recruiter (we might have Curses; we might have Rogues too). I'm leaning more toward Uite for recruit because of how much his play suffered after early-mid D1, personally.

That's all we've got. Good luck!

[mothrax]

i checked tans. he has needles.

vote: mothrax.

That is all well and good, but since nocase checked tans and not me a large part of that is moot.

[Ythill]

Vi has made the single post that was afforded to him.

• Vote Count
  
  1 ~ mothrax (nocase)
  
  Not voting: mothrax, inHimshallibe, Zorblag, tanstalas, Uite

• Notes
  
  
• With six alive it takes four to lynch.
  
• The deadline is Monday, January 31st, 23:30 PST (GMT-8).
  
• Overall prods: Zorblag (2), Mothrax (1).

[inHimshallibe]

Alright, time to fully fullclaim. With this mysterious "no-kill or was it?" hanging over our heads, and being on evens...

I have a daykill.

[inHimshallibe]

The only reason I've yet to claim this is that it can work like a PGO if scum kill me. Yes, BWUH, this role is ridiculous.

I think we kill mothrax.

[tanstalas]

Shoot Mothrax, if win yay, if not lynch Uite?

Granted if neither of them are scum then we lose because I have a bad feeling I'd be the lynch for tomorrow

[inHimshallibe]

Shoot Mothrax, if win yay, if not lynch Uite?

Granted if neither of them are scum then we lose because I have a bad feeling I'd be the lynch for tomorrow

If mothrax is town and there is a kill Tonight, you'd be cleared.

[tanstalas]

Oh yeah, forgot about RB.

I approve of your plan!

[Uite]

Hold up just a sec, and follow the rest of my post. Read the flavor of the Night scene again. It points to no Servika making a kill, but of Vi dying of natural causes.

Personally, I think it's just that – flavour. Vi knew for a long time he was going to die, and the flavour reflects that. That's no reason to think that scum didn't kill him, though.

I know Vi can't respond to this, but I feel it's important for me to get this out. If anyone else want's to take a shot at it, feel free to do so.

As much as I would like Uite to DIAF, upon reconsideration he's probably more likely to be Town.
*While it was hinted that he had been investigated and had to claim his real role (thanks nocase), his minstrel claim lines up with what was expected earlier.
*There's still a chance that the roleblock works the way we thought before (we're still fuzzy on the mechanics of how it would work and the mod won't clarify).
*Post 203 was what gandalf called a "Town-slip" because he didn't consider mod-provided flavor. I don't have particular reason to believe he actually did or did not remember the mod-provided flavor, so etc. In 236, he said that his Role PM allowed him to request flavor (and this was a few posts before tanstalas said anything about it). Therefore if tanstalas is clear, Uite probably also has to be clear.

This is all true so what I don't understand is this:

All of us are pretty unanimous that Uite looks so overwhelmingly like scum that we would have a hard time faulting his lynch.~ 973 looks horrible.

I'm scum, yet I'm probably town?

I'm leaning more toward Uite for recruit because of how much his play suffered after early-mid D1, personally.

I can assure you that the drop in quality is not because of me being recruited. If you look at my other games, it's happened across the board since that point in time. I don't want to get into it too much, but it's likely the result of some real-life issues I've been having.

Yes, BWUH, this role is ridiculous.

No shit. I'm having a hard time believing it's for real. It's just too much.

Shoot Mothrax, if win yay, if not lynch Uite?

Granted if neither of them are scum then we lose because I have a bad feeling I'd be the lynch for tomorrow

This post is horrible. The AtE is noted, but what's worse is that you're setting up a lynch with

very

faulty logic. Consider this: if Mothrax is shot and he is scum, we win yay, but if he's not, that means that he really did block me, and I couldn't possibly have killed Vi, which pretty much confirms me as town. So lynching me then would be a demonstrably bad idea.