Mini 1108 - Mutiny on the High Seas - Game Over

[chesskid3]

you're active lurking as scum.
perfect vig shot.

Also, since there is never such a thing as "obvscum", vigs shouldn't take the low percentage shots unless they are goddamn sure of them. based on this crowd, take the safe shot, since none of the OMGSCUMSCUMSCUM reads I've seen thrown around are correct.

[AurorusVox]

Basically, Chess and IS are OMGUSing scum and we need a lynch on one of them today to avoid a no-lynch.

False. We need to lynch SOMEONE to avoid a no lynch. It doesn't have to be one of these two.

Unvote
Vote: Shadow

With no support for an Umbrage lynch, I'm going back to my previous case on Shadow and lynch the claimed VT scenario.

[PranaDevil]

Vote Count:

chesskid3 (2) - bristep123, Doombunny9
Shadow1psc (3) - Internet Stranger, Jedo the Jedi, AurorusVox
Doombunny9 (1) - chesskid3
Internet Stranger (4) - Shadow1psc, Wraith, smargaret, Nero Cain
AurorusVox (1) - Liar

Not Voting:

Umbrage

With 12 alive it takes 7 to make someone walk the plank!

Day phase will end at

2pm GMT on Friday January 21st

[Internet Stranger]

How the hell am I OMGUSing?? I would have to do it to like 5 people.
I'm just pointing out the facts as I see them.

The fact is that Shadow is scum and I'm right about the rest of you. No balls, no conviction. So you all might as well lynch the person that's making you all look so bad. Swallow that damn pride already and vote Shadow. There is no shame in following me to victory.

[Doombunny9]

You expect me to come up with NEW evidence when Shadow is just sitting back sipping a piña colada because the pressure if off him?

Dont you give me none of this Exhaustion Defense garbage. I already made my case. Either you accept it or do something. But sitting there wagging your finger is USELESS.
You see, NONE of you have any clue as to what to do now. You all KNOW im town. But the scum has you all eating their crap.

Best thing to do is lynch Shadow. At least I have a clue.

First of all, if you don't have anything new to say, then you don't need to say anything. Yes, we realize you're still here. Yes, we realize you think shadow is scum. There is no reason to keep saying it.

Also, if we know you're town, no one would be voting you.

Unvote, Vote: IS

He's been my second choice for a while now and is deserving of this vote. We only have 2 days until deadline anyway and I don't want to see a NL (L-2 BTW)

[Umbrage]

Time to simplify things.

1 - bristep123 (replaces Nexus): Replaced a very lurking/scummy slot. Has done some good scumhunting, but has a bit of a "I'll lynch anyone" attitude, and has had it for a while now. CONCLUSION: Most likely town, but not excluded from being scum. Either way, he's not going to be today's lynch.
2 - chesskid3: Totally illogical. Spams the thread in an argument with Shadow, but doesn't want to see him lynched, and has a town read on him now. Obvious distancing. Does an IS style repeat someone is scum until they get lynched strategy, but his targets are all over the place. Frequently resorts to AAH. CONCLUSION: I've been picking up the scumtells from this player for a long time now. He hasn't improved his play in that time, if anything he's now worse. He's becoming more anxious for a lynch as the day wears on.
3 - smargaret: Saying he's lurking isn't exactly true. It's more like he's doing something parallel to the rest of us. I initially consider this town, but it could be a scum ploy. CONCLUSION: Would like more content. Could be scum, but I see no compelling reason to think so at the moment.
4 - Umbrage: Dear God this man is genius. CONCLUSION: Incredibly handsome.
5 - Shadow1psc: Hm... Well, his activity is now up to scratch, and he's doing some solid scumhunting. Of course, this may simply have been spurred by the wagon on him. However, the only new points that have been on him are utter bullshit, the "lynch claimed VT" and "he didn't hammer". CONCLUSION: Definitely one of the 3 most likely to be scum. My original case on him stands firm.
6 - Wraith (replaces JoanBud): JoanBud isn't really worth talking about, Wraith on the other hand has made a HUGE change in stance partway through his play without much explanation. CONCLUSION: Needs to take a more objective look at the game, and needs more content. My gut feeling is that he's town, but that could change.
7 - Nero Cain: Makes good cases, but... I don't know, there's something about the careless humour in his posts... I get a really bad scum vibe. CONCLUSION: It's probably nothing, but I want to keep a close eye on this one.
8 - AurorusVox: Utterly unreasonable. Pushes cases even when they've lost all merit. Forms a good case on Shadow, but then pushes the weird 'claimed VT' thing. Contradicts himself, says he's alright with Shadow or myself, but not IS. Butchers my quotes, seemingly on purpose. Given to fits of rage when he doesn't get his way. CONCLUSION: A likely buddy of IS. He's pushed too hard to be partners with Shadow, IMO. Still, he could be a strong asset to the town, so I'm hesitant about a lynch.
9 - Internet Stranger: Nuts. Pushes a Shadow lynch from the get-go, and doesn't let up, never considers anyone else. And he has weak reasoning compared to the rest of us. CONCLUSION: He's either town or the most suicidal scum I've ever seen.
10 - Jedo the Jedi: His original non-RVS post still rings out as scummy to me. I remember thinking he could be buddies with CK3, but I sort of forgot about it with the whole Shadow thing. Looking back, it makes perfect sense. CONCLUSION: Pretty scummy. Think about it, he realizes his buddy CK3 is in trouble, so launches a case on me to distract the town. It works. He keeps on me until the wagon dies, then notices Shadow is the prime target. He hops on the wagon while still attacking me. His position on Shadow goes from 0 to 100 in a few posts. He sits back and does the 'hurry up and do something' act. You can even see him coach CK3 at some point. I'm not saying he's definitely scum, but I am amazed he's slipped under the radar thus far.
11 - Doombunny9: Gets a slow start, but becomes one of the more pro-town players. Stays neutral, never really pushing a wagon so that it becomes scummy. Stays focused, not swayed by popular wagons. CONCLUSION: If he's scum, we're all in trouble.
12 - Liar: I'm sad to see him go. I don't think there's a soul here that honestly suspected him. CONCLUSION: See Doombunny.

VOTE: Jedo the Jedi

As said, I will switch to IS if it comes to it, but greatly prefer Jedo, CK3, or even Shadow.

[bristep123]

First of all, sorry to the game for being less active over the last few days. This flu was pretty nasty, if Nexus left it behind I'll kill him. I'm over the worst now, even if my voice is still as squeaky as a 12yr old's!

Secondly, (and I think this is a first) I'm going to reply to an Umbrage post AND AGREE WITH HIM! Well somewhat.

Firstly I'm still fairly convinced that Umbrage is scum, and this list if a good way of shoehorning in a vote/wagon start on Jedo without actually doing a big case on him. And the comments about AV? Most of comments are fairly interchangeable with his own behaviour so far. Word to the wise mate, you don't get to decide if a case on yourself has merit or not. That's for the rest of the game to decide.

With that said, his comment on IS is what I wanted to make reference to. I agree with Umbrage, IS's posting style makes it hard for people to want to go along with him but is he really that likely to be scum? Tunnelling on Shadow in the blatant, hostile way that he has with no regard for how he comes accross makes it impossible for him to survive tomorrow if Shadow flips town. If Shadow is not scum then IS will likely be one of the quickest day two lynches in mafiascum history.

My own personal belief right now? We need to decide on IS or Shadow.

If IS flips town, we need to scrutinise every single person who pushed on him, and take a good look at who didn't. If he flips scum then the opposite is true.

If Shadow flips town, then it's time to look at who really went after him (myself included in that) but I can't see any other option that IS being lynched. If Shadow flips scum, I say we just do what IS says for the rest of the game lol.

One thing though that's been bugging me and I wanted to ask opinion though. What is the likelihood of Shadow having a win condition of getting Shadow lynched? Like a vendetta or something?

Anyway, we need to lynch someone because a no-lynch is no good to anyone except those scummy bastards. I'll support the same people I have already mentioned those being Umbrage, Shadow and Chesskid. If we get to within an hour or the phase ending and IS needs a hammer then I'll do it but I'm not going to until then just because it's there. I still think IS is town after all.

[PranaDevil]

SnakePlissken replaces Liar

[SnakePlissken]

Avast be shipmates I be in ere thread and Im out to root out these inbreds and throw em off this ere ship.

Unvote

I like to start with a clean slate. Looking around there are some of you I know and some I don't 32 pages is a lot of reading, but Umbrage's update is a nice round up for the moment. First off why is Chesskid not a policy lynch yet?

[AurorusVox]

4 - Umbrage: Dear God this man is genius. CONCLUSION: Incredibly handsome.

This made me lol.

8 - AurorusVox: Utterly unreasonable.

Lol. Unreasonable because I won't drop a case that you can't defend against, and in some cases don't even acknowledge?

Pushes cases even when they've lost all merit.

See Britstep

Forms a good case on Shadow, but then pushes the weird 'claimed VT' thing.

See an earlier post where I explain logically and mathematically the benefits of lynching claimed VTs. Also, the policy of lynching claimed VTs does not nullify my earlier case on Shadow. It simply compliments it and makes Shadow a better candidate for the rope.

Contradicts himself, says he's alright with Shadow or myself, but not IS.

How is that a contradiction? You and Shadow are my top 2 scumspects, IS isn't.

Butchers my quotes, seemingly on purpose.

ROFLMAO

Oh jeez, you must be smoking something.

Wasn't this EXACTLY my case on you that you said had no merit? Except, whereas you've done two wildly different things and have been PROVEN to misrep, I have...not? Oh right. You're trying that new fangled scum technique of "stealing peoples' cases on you and using it against them for no reason". I don't think it'll catch on.

Given to fits of rage when he doesn't get his way.

I am normally quite level headed. I am given to fits of rage when you defend against my case by not reading it. How you can claim to have any read on me when you're not even

read

ing my posts is laughable.

CONCLUSION: A likely buddy of IS. He's pushed too hard to be partners with Shadow, IMO. Still, he could be a strong asset to the town, so I'm hesitant about a lynch.

What is this bullshit? "He's probably scum but he might help town oh noez" if you want to pretend I'm scum don't pussyfoot around it.

---

Yarr ahoy there Snake!

[Shadow1psc]

omg @ Umbrage wall of nothing.

[Jedo the Jedi]

Regarding hypocritical comment, I thought it was obvious, but apparently it wasn't.

Jedo says that IS could not be expected to hammer, but it's scummy if Shadow doesn't. That's just stupid, and parroting IS' argument. Am I the only one that sees how they're fawning over each other?

Well, I'm glad I waited for this one. I wouldn't want to be accused of over-defensiveness because I responded to this before someone brought it up. If this isn't the most obvious argument for you to make. And, naturally, you don't see the difference between their in/ability to hammer.

I never used that post to demonstrate Shadow's scumminess. The second paragraph was more defense of IS to show his argument was just fine. IS has not made an outright claim that chess is scum (there was some indecisiveness on the matter, but mostly it has been that he is town/VI), so it would be foolish for him to hammer. On the other hand, Shadow has said chess is scum (or just worth a policy lynch. You must have missed the joke regarding that), so it is reasonable for him to hammer. IS was hounding him on this and you guys turn on IS. I still don't see why.

I suppose, by supporting IS that somehow means I support his argument(s), but I don't need Shadow's lack of hammer to say anything about his scumminess. I already believe him to be scummy (notice where my vote is). Besides, what I actually said is that Shadow would not be found anymore suspicious for hammering, so he might as well have done it. IS may see something in that, but I don't care.

IT IS NOT SCUMMY IF SHADOW DOESN'T HAMMER. IT IS IN HIS BEST INTERESTS AS TOWN FOR HIM TO NOT HAMMER, UNLESS HE TRULY BELIEVES CK3 IS SCUM.

This must be for everybody else benefit. The problem with your statement is that Shadow has thought chess scummy, so why didn't he hammer? (If I missed where he changed his stance, I apologize. That would make things different.) Also, I will repeat, someone has to hammer. Honestly, I don't know why that would look so scummy at this point. You can't have an entire bandwagon on someone (which means half the town was in agreement), then turn on the person who placed the last vote and blame then because the lynchee flipped town. Targeting the hammer is just dumb. (I will cut off the argument this time. In my previous post, I said, "The hammer is of course the scummiest looking person." This was not meant to be my opinion of the matter but me laying out general consensus. You can save your breath.)

CONGRADULATIONS Jedo!!!! You just earned MAJOR scum points with the chainsaw of IS. If IS flips scum Jedo should be scumspect #1.

And what if chess flips scum? I also defended him. Sometimes people need to be defended because there is a mountain of bullshit causing their lynch. I know I would look scummy if either of them flips scum. It's a risk I'm willing to take. (Of course, I am willing to view them as scum, just not for the things which others are using to demonstrate their scumminess.)

Seems pro town but seems to be defending other people too much rather than scumhunting (I haven't seen much new on shadow even though Jedos voting him) Would be interested in hearing from other people if he always plays like this.

I don't understand. I've scumhunted two people (which is more than enough for the present), and I've defended two people (neither of which took much effort). In fact, I think I've spent more posts with the former than the latter. My vote stays because there hasn't been anything better. Just because people cease to perpetuate scummy actions does not automatically change their reading. Finally, this is my first game on mafiascum. You could look up my archived games on Grey Labyrinth.

Now why do I think his 728 was a chainsaw? From his last post to 728 there were 30 odd posts yet mine was the only one worth mentioning?

Yours made the biggest point (in my opinion), and it was the worst logic (proportionately). Plus, you didn't even vote for him based on your own reasoning. You waited until after smargaret's post. In conjunction, you seem pretty scummy, and your case looks like painting. I thought it was a good choice to break down.

Nero/Doom; do you disagree with what Jedo said in his latest post, or do you just not like that he's defending IS?

Both actully I disagree what he sid AND the fact the he's defending IS especially when he said...

just lynch somebody and let's move to night. At least we can start with more info tomorrow.

So he's fine lynching anyone...except IS. Really? I'm the only one that finds this weird.

Way to misrepresent me. You forgot the bit just before that which said

If this is how you are going to fill more and more pages over the next week...

It's kind of important for understanding.

Honestly, I can't fully support an IS wagon. Something in his posts just screams "I'M TOWN" to me. He's the stubbornest player I've seen, and I don't think scum would stick their necks out like that. I realize what I just said is WIFOM, but my gut says he's not scum.

What was that stuff earlier then? "Nero's attack on IS looks good." "I will vote IS (or whoever) to get a lynch." "Jedo and IS are fawning on each other

(i.e. they must be scum)

." Plus, I (scum in your opinion) would stick my neck out for chess and IS who have taken some of the biggest flak today? Why then does your gut not say I'm also not scum?

Jedo the Jedi: His original non-RVS post still rings out as scummy to me. I remember thinking he could be buddies with CK3, but I sort of forgot about it with the whole Shadow thing. Looking back, it makes perfect sense. CONCLUSION: Pretty scummy.

1)

Think about it, he realizes his buddy CK3 is in trouble, so launches a case on me to distract the town. It works.

2)

He keeps on me until the wagon dies, then notices Shadow is the prime target. He hops on the wagon while still attacking me. His position on Shadow goes from 0 to 100 in a few posts. He sits back and does the 'hurry up and do something' act. You can even see him coach CK3 at some point.

3)

I'm not saying he's definitely scum, but I am amazed he's slipped under the radar thus far.

I really wanted to break apart more of that post, but I'll confine myself to the things pertaining to me.
1) My case on you started when you began to appear scummy, you know, tunneling on chess and your argument with Vox. I don't know how it "worked" considering chess still looked scummy to most of the town.
2) I don't recall much of a wagon on you. Then Shadow began to appear scummy when he was attacking chess. (This happens to be when his posting volume went up, which means more chances to slip up. Convenient for me or logical?) Additionally, if I want scum to be lynched today, and I see two people who I believe to be scum, I want to lynch at least one of them. I don't see how that is scummy.
3) Wait. I'm not definitely scum, but you are voting me? Why aren't you voting for chess or Shadow who are higher on your list

and

more likely to garner votes?

As said, I will switch to IS if it comes to it, but greatly prefer Jedo, CK3, or even Shadow.

Again, this seems inconsistent. If IS appears town and not scum to you, why are you willing to vote him?

[Jedo the Jedi]

How far back do you think IS was planning this gambit?

The setup of Nero? Probably not far. After all, he had never really said chess was scum, so it didn't make sense for IS to vote chess. Knowing that and where the town was sitting, it probably was a spur-of-the-moment thing. Also, I believe it was just a gambit. I don't think he was intending to catch any particular person (with the Nero situation), but it was just to see who would do it.

The Shadow thing was related but different. I think he saw a good opportunity for a test. Since Shadow was already suspected, we probably could have gained some info if he hammered and we saw chess's flip. I'm less concerned with that one.

I agree with Umbrage, IS's posting style makes it hard for people to want to go along with him but is he really that likely to be scum?

I believe I said that (at least before Umbrage). Here (#731)

For the record, I don't think IS looks very town, but I've played with him a few times and this is solid IS. I view him as the arrogant guy whom you dislike because he's so in-your-face, but in the end he is right about the things he said.

This is not to say that he can't be scum and that I won't suspect him at all this game, I just don't right now. I think people want him to be scum like they want chess to be scum, but in the end it's just because you don't like their abrasiveness.

[Shadow1psc]

Umbrage strikes me as just wanting the day to be over. Everyone has argued themselves to the ground, and I don't think we're going to get any more out of this day until someone hangs. There's nothing innately wrong with that analysis, but the fact that Umbrage is willing to jump on any bandwagon might be the wrong (see: scummy) way to represent this logic. Saying "Yeah, I don't care who I vote out of these 4 people" is a great, non-commital blanket statement.

[Internet Stranger]

Youre right. Umbrage should vote for that Shadow guy.
(PS: Shadow is the scum)

[Wraith]

Youre right. Umbrage should vote for that Shadow guy.
(PS: Shadow is the scum)

That's like three of these posts (with different wording) in a row. Why haven't we lynched IS yet?

[chesskid3]

oh look snakeplissken.
whee?

Umbrage. If you're so sure I'm scum, want an avatar bet?
Because I know damn well your gut says I'm town, and You just don't want to listen to it.
SO put up or shut up. Avatar bet.

[Jedo the Jedi]

oh look snakeplissken.
whee?

Umbrage. If you're so sure I'm scum, want an avatar bet?
Because I know damn well your gut says I'm town, and You just don't want to listen to it.
SO put up or shut up. Avatar bet.

I have to say, it's things like this (and other stupid nonsense) which make me think this is the worst town I've ever played with.

[chesskid3]

Smargaret is scum
I guarantee it
This IS the worst town ever, because everyone is tunneling on town.

[Internet Stranger]

Wraith, what exactly do you want me to say? Youre just like Bunny. You want me to conjure more evidence out of thin air. Did you happen to count how many words were in Shadow's post? How about Margaret? (Hint: They aint much)

Oh wait. I have something to say: "This is a blatant double standard".

[Shadow1psc]

Umbrage strikes me as just wanting the day to be over. Everyone has argued themselves to the ground, and I don't think we're going to get any more out of this day until someone hangs. There's nothing innately wrong with that analysis, but the fact that Umbrage is willing to jump on any bandwagon might be the wrong (see: scummy) way to represent this logic. Saying "Yeah, I don't care who I vote out of these 4 people" is a great, non-commital blanket statement.

Youre right. Umbrage should vote for that Shadow guy.
(PS: Shadow is the scum)

Dare to compare, IS.

[Internet Stranger]

omg @ Umbrage wall of nothing.

Such a small memory. This is EXACTLY what im talking about.

[Shadow1psc]

Also; I know you were talking about #785, I'm just pointing out that you gotta at least be consistent with your argument. Something more than "Lol he does it to" doesn't work when your post in question is literally right next to a post where I

didn't

follow that example.

[Shadow1psc]

Ninjad; point stands.

[AurorusVox]

How far back do you think IS was planning this gambit?

The setup of Nero? Probably not far. After all, he had never really said chess was scum, so it didn't make sense for IS to vote chess.

Eh. I have a problem with your post then. See, the thing is, IS

had

said before mentioning the potential for a Chess-hammer that he found Chess "suspicious" and thought he could be scum.

I believe that whatever Chesskid is doing is deliberate. So unless he is scum, he will come through for the town in the end anyways.

Considering that, his refusal to maintain a vote on Shadow despite all the arguments and the beliefs of others is a lot more suspicious than foolish.

If he was just playing dumb and just waiting to get to lylo, he shouldnt be concerned as much regarding who gets lynched.

Its quite possible that them two are a scumteam as someone had theorized.

(Lets lynch Shadow first anyways)

I really like that speculation that the scumteam contains Shadow and Chess.

One small thing Wraith forgets to mention is that I paired up Shadow and Chess as a scumteam like three times now. (Based on someone elses idea, which sounded good)
Maybe he hasnt read that far yet.

He also said after the hammer-gambit:

Chesskid is likely to be scum, but as #2 scum. My #1 scum is Shadow. Im waiting for Shadow to hammer Chess and see what happens.

I was hoping you'd say that you thought the gambit had been planned from way back here and through past the Nero incident, since that would be consistent with your view that IS doesn't think Chess is scummy. IS only really started seeing Chess as town after Shadow refused to hammer him. Do you still think there's a distinction between IS not hammering and Shadow not hammering?

---

In other news, Umbrage's vote on Jedo is awful. It's very unlikely that Jedo will get lynched today with deadline so close. At the moment its a worthless vote from scum, probably him trying to stay off his partner's wagon (i.e. Shadow) and a town mislynch (Chess? IS?).