Mini 1105: A Mafia Invasion! (Game Over)

[LlamaGod]

2. Nobody made a convincing case on Jerbs, you can go back and look at my history and I do not normally just vote for somebody without a valid reason and

I still don't see one even after his lynch

and I know he is scum, he had me fooled.

The biggest issue I had with it was the whole speculation of the day kill by VP and than how he hopped on the Jaerbs wagon late, I was so sure he was trying to

Bus his buddy

, I try not to rely on speculation very much and that is basically what the Jerbs wagon came from.

hahahahaha... (emphasis mine)
please lynch this scum. thank you.

Oh this is really good, I didn't get it the first time. Rob claims he thought VP was bussing a buddy even before the lynch (implying a fair amount of certainty of scumJerbs) but didn't see any convincing case on Jerbs.
VOTE: Robcapone

[Empking]

Unvote

Vote: Rob

[RobCapone]

2. Nobody made a convincing case on Jerbs, you can go back and look at my history and I do not normally just vote for somebody without a valid reason and

I still don't see one even after his lynch

and I know he is scum, he had me fooled.

The biggest issue I had with it was the whole speculation of the day kill by VP and than how he hopped on the Jaerbs wagon late, I was so sure he was trying to

Bus his buddy

, I try not to rely on speculation very much and that is basically what the Jerbs wagon came from.

hahahahaha... (emphasis mine)
please lynch this scum. thank you.

Oh this is really good, I didn't get it the first time. Rob claims he thought VP was bussing a buddy even before the lynch (implying a fair amount of certainty of scumJerbs) but didn't see any convincing case on Jerbs.
VOTE: Robcapone

Show me the case on him, I still don't see it

Also I was trying to get Jerbs to talk about his claim cause I didn't buy his claim and was waiting to see if he hung himself

[pappums rat]

alot of seemingly pro-town things can come from scum since they are trying to emulate town, but this dosent mean that acting pro-town is scummy

I am not saying that acting pro-town is scummy, just that the way LlamaGod was acting protown can be scummy.

llamagod had to vote for one of them, and just happened to vote for scum. your point?

Read my post, I made my point a few lines down.

he doesn't. this is a good way for scum to get another mislynch, so llamagod was pointing out that this may be the case. he never said he 'knows' this to be the case

Do you think he would be stupid enough to say that he knows this to be the case? My point is that the statement was unqualified.

agar flipped town. this can lead one to come to these sorts of conclusions based upon interactions with other players. its not like he started pushing jerbs harder. agar was gone, so there was only one viable lynch at the time.

This is fluff and misses the point.

or he wanted jerbs to claim? what kind of communication could go on between them from jerbs claiming?

Why ask twice? (I am considering saying that we need Jerbs to claim is asking). Scum will ask their buddy to claim, in the hopes that they will get the message and fake-claim.

Rain, I think that most cases in mafia are riddled with speculation.

lol at RobCapone's meta read.

1. its basically the same thing.
2. i read your post, including a few lines down, and i do not see your point. what was it exactly?
3. how is it unqualified? he was pointing out that this could be the case. there is nothing scummy about it.
4. no its not, that is the way i see things.
5. idk. maybe. i suppose it is a possibility. i dont see it though.

[RobCapone]

I'm a huge proponent of people actually making cases, Empking should know this cause I did a 20+ page tirade when he refused to make a case on anyone in another game

Nobody posted a case on Jerbs. I typically go after people who don't participate, tasky and pappums were on my list cause they were lurking and or sheeping

[LlamaGod]

Rob is at L-3. There is a lot more to think about before anybody is dayvigged or lynched though.

Response to Rob: sure, there was not an immense amount of case put down against Jerbs; a lot of it was just the world making more sense if he was scum, which is hard to put down / explain. However, his bandwagoning, analysis of the RW situation, and "I would prefer all possible lynches over each other and over the one I am voting for" posts were scummy by themselves as well. The fact that he was against the Jerbs lynch while believing Baltar was bussing Jerbs is where the contradiction Tasky pointed out comes in.

I was eager for Jerbs to claim because I was hoping to get him to Fakeclaim mason, which would make him obvscum considering his willingness to lynch Agar. I was also hoping to get sanity information after he claimed cop because the rules allow only one non normal role in a mininormal and the daykiller is definitely that, so an insane cop would be forbidden by the rules and a "cop of unknown sanity" claim would also confirm him as scum. Basically I wanted his claim so I could try to pull it apart. I was happy he claimed a PR because I think scum tend to claim PRs D1 so a claimed PR is 50/50 scum at least.

This is also interesting.

Fos dizzle

Ill hold offvoting til mod prods him and he has time to respond

P. Edit

Click on his name, his last login is blank

That's setup in the user control panel

I know cause mine has been set like that since I joined this site

Why does Dizzle get the FOS right after Rob has pointed out RW couldn't have seen Dizzle online?
RW could still be scum, he was anti Jerbs lynch and I didn't see anything in his or Jerbs' ISO to convince me he's town other than some early back and forth which could as easily have been distancing as jabbing at a townie.

[LlamaGod]

He is Rob in the last sentence of that second paragraph, sorry if that was confusing.
I guess I should do one of those mod ISO color the votecounts things that seem to work pretty well for catching scum.

Reads (yeah shopping list etc. but I think the scum can figure it out anyway)
Town:
VV, Tasky, Llama, Empking

Medium town:
Rain

Medium:
Pappums, RW

Medium-scum:
Elli

Scummy
Zden, Rob

[RobCapone]

@llama - my Fos on dizzle had nothing to do with Ross's information

Dizzle got my fos cause his actions or lack of, I can Fos lurkers just like I can vote them

I would typically vote him but he was already about to be lynched.

[Zachrulez]

2nd vote count of day 2:

Robcapone - 3 (Tasky, Llamagod, Empking)
Zdenek - 2 (Pappums rat, Robcapone)
Llamagod - 1 (Zdenek)
Ellibereth - 1 (Rain)
Rosswilliam - 1 (Ellibereth)

Not voting: 2 (Vigilante Ventrioquist, Rosswilliam)

With 10 alive it's 6 to lynch

Day 1 will end no later than Sunday Jan 30th at 5pm CST

[pappums rat]

unvote
vote robcapone

i dont like the way he has buddied up to me the way he has. he goes straight from believing i am scum to voting zdenek after myself and rain do so. he lulz at my defence of myself from his 'case' on me to voting zdenek because i 'actually make sense'. afaict zdenek has a habit of playing scummy (see kgb mafia), and i think rob may be going for an easy mislynch if zdenek is town, or he wants to shift the focus of scrutiny over to his own scumbuddy to avoid being lynched today. personally i think it is the former, but im not completely sure yet. zdenek is still scummy, and has not alleviated my suspicions from his defence of his case on llamagod, but right now i think rob is more likely to be scum. rob is now at l-2.

[RobCapone]

I haven't buddied you, I have been voting you cause you were not providing any content that was your own, just mimicing others

I feel the vote on llama is bad because llama has made the most sense so far

There are others I would say are on my town list I would also take objection to being lynched

I still am leery of you but more so of zed

[RobCapone]

Zde not zed

[Vigilante Ventriloquist]

Whoops, forgot about this game. Posting now.

[Vigilante Ventriloquist]

Okay, sorry about that. Something came up. Posting later. >.<

[LlamaGod]

We should not quickhammer/vig Rob; this is a pretty information-rich game and we should use our analysis time.
Rob is at

L-2

.
I hope to hear from VV soon.

[RobCapone]

so let's look at the votes for me

Tasky - no reason, later points out my post that I never saw a valid case for a Jaerbs lynch, even after he flipped scum nobody made a convincing argument other than pure speculation. (since when is wanting a case on somebody scummy?)

Llama - for agreeing with what tasky said - I will reiterate, when is asking for a case scummy? looking back unless I missed it (please point it out if you can) the ONLY thing I can see how that jerbs lynch came about was the whole "agar or jerbs" speculation. I am not big for specualtion, so again if somebody made a case for him that I missed please point it out.

Empking - no reason given except claims to mixed me and tasky up on his reads

pappums - accuses me of buddying up to him which I didn't, I said that he made sense in that post, because I felt Llama has been one of the more pro-town players

This wagon on me is absolutely crap and the reasons are crap.

I have mentioned THREE different times to point out a case that somebody made on jerbs (four if you include this post I am making now) and nobody has obliged.

so here I go looking for the white rabbit

1st vote - tasky - shocker no reason
2nd vote - Rain - makes a case for him, it was made before the day vig I believe
3rd vote - using the RW wagon and posting contentless posts (in a nutshell)
4th vote - Guderian - reason "he sounds good"
5th vote - pappums - says that he will take the compromise lynch and points out a singular post by jerbs
6th vote - just says he is the only viable lynch, gives no reason
7th and final vote - just calls BS on a cop claim and hammers, sort of ballsy move that paid off

people can correct me if I am wrong but I really only see 2 people with a valid reason for his vote.

also Llama you pointed out earlier about the counter wagon theory you had, however I was one of the people to vote Agar early on for his opportunistic play, I later changed my vote because I thought others were being scummy but I went back to Agar because he never got out of my head. I FOS'd Jerbs because he said he preferred lynches on like 3 or 4 people.

so you guys can try and spin what I did as being scummy, but I can justify each and every vote I have made with a reason, I feel others can't (or didn't)

[RobCapone]

i might be willing to compromise on jerbs or agar, though i still think rw is our best lynch for today. for the people voting agar over jerbs, why? and vice versa.

Looking back at this pappums

Can you explain why these 3 were suspicious? The only one you really seem set on was Ross and your reasons for him were incredibly weak. You don't really post much on the other 2 yet you seem perfectly willing to vote both of them. Seems odd to me, since we have time care to explain?

[Empking]

Rob: This is very unlike your play in Fringe in my opinion. Do you agree? Why do you think that is?

[RobCapone]

Rob: This is very unlike your play in Fringe in my opinion. Do you agree? Why do you think that is?

The difference in my play in fringe is scum comes in and votes me with no case, I spend all day making my case on why that person is scum and calling him out for not making a case, his scum buddy decides to flip flop and votes me too, I push harder declaring both are scum, nobody listens and the 3rd scum hammers me.

What I learned in that game was
1. I was right that you and smar was scum
2. Me voting people for scummy things much like I have done here hurt, not helped my credibility
3. Most important lesson, my aggressive behavior got me lynched cause town didn't beleive/trust me

This is basically how I am playing here but trying to be less aggressive

I still voted people I think did scummy actions
I still demand that a case be made on a person before they are lynched

There was no case made on me in that game

There is no case being made on me this game

Only difference is my calmness, after another game where I self hammered as town because nobody was listening to me, it hit me that I am too aggressive and not trustworthy so I asked people for advice and the general consensus is stop being aggressive and think before you post.

[Rain]

@LlamaGod
I'm intrigued as to why you put VV and Empking/Guderian in your town list. If it's true they look town, it's only in comparison to others. Much of what they have done so far is not revealing.

By the way, lynch Ellibereth imo. If he turns out to be scum, it pretty much guarantees RossTown.

[Zdenek]

Yeah. I took a gap halfway through reading this game with no notes. Swap Tasky and Rob on my list of reads.

I've been lynched essentially for changing a read from town to null, and no one has anything to say about Empking swapping his reads two people on whom he had strong, opposing views?

Pappums, I don't know what game you're playing, but the specifics of what people say and do are important, and in your most recent response to my case on LG, you completely ignore the details of what is going on. It makes me feel as though you have no interest in determining LG's alignment and that you are only interested in arguing with me.

Vote Pappums

[RobCapone]

you better start doing something useful soon.

While I am waiting for pappums, may I ask how you think you have been useful?

Cause from your posts, you don't seem to have done anything useful

I have seem games where you were town and you were very vocal yet this game you are not

[Empking]

Unvote

Vote: Zdenek

Rob's last post screams town. Zdenek's on the otherhand scream bandwagoning, subtlly attacking scum.

[pappums rat]

zdenek wrote:

Pappums, I don't know what game you're playing, but the specifics of what people say and do are important, and in your most recent response to my case on LG, you completely ignore the details of what is going on. It makes me feel as though you have no interest in determining LG's alignment and that you are only interested in arguing with me.

lohoooooolz. idk what game

you

are playing, mate. how exactly did i 'ignore the details of whats going on'? i went and commented on every point that i took issue with in your case on llamagod and your subsequent defence of your case. and as for 'determining lg's alignment' i have him as my #1 townread atm. has been since vp baltar got killed. oh and btw, i think it should be pretty clear that i was done 'arguing with you' when i went after someone who appeared scummier than you.

i might be willing to compromise on jerbs or agar, though i still think rw is our best lynch for today. for the people voting agar over jerbs, why? and vice versa.

Looking back at this pappums

Can you explain why these 3 were suspicious? The only one you really seem set on was Ross and your reasons for him were incredibly weak. You don't really post much on the other 2 yet you seem perfectly willing to vote both of them. Seems odd to me, since we have time care to explain?

my reasons for suspecting rw were sound. the other two were compromise lynches since rw wasnt going to happen.

[Vigilante Ventriloquist]

Okay, posting time.

The night kill is mildly interesting in that VP had a bit of suspicion on him. It's less interesting when you consider that VP is a good player and a small amount of suspicion on him would likely not be enough to keep a scum team from wanting to kill him and especially if he was doing something right. His suspicions might be worth looking at, but I'm not sure it's worth it to use them for any more than padding suspicions. This being said, I don't actually remember who he suspected.

I'm really not seeing Zdenek's case on Llama in post #345. I like Rob's case (or PBPA, I guess) on pappums in the next post though.

Interestingly enough though, I really don't like what I see from Rob in iso towards the end of yesterday. Between his post #321 and post #322, it really looks like he doesn't want the Jerbs wagon to find its way to completion. I also don't like the potential pushing of a day 2 mislynch on VP in post #336, followed by the very nonchalant "oh well, so much for that!" post #334 just 35 minutes into the day. Strikes me a bit as him not being surprised enough, if that makes sense. For the moment, that's actually enough to put him ahead of pappums on my want-to-lynch list.

Post #349 actually made me laugh out loud just now. Really nice catch by Tasky.

Vote: RobCapone

Rain's post #358 looks like a jump onto a counter-wagon to try to take attention off of Rob, especially since he seems more concerned with using buzzwords and making his post loud than he does about explaining his vote. I was about to say Rob's immediate switch to Zdenek afterwards made this less likely, but Rain's subsequent switch to Elli just 5 votes later could very well be his way of trying to distance himself from Rob.

FoS Rain

Town

1.Robcapone

9. Rosswilliam

Please ask me any question you have. Reading now.

I have one....actually, on further reading, I have two more:
1. Why the vote on pappums?
2. What changed that made you vote Rob?

---

Since it's apparently now the cool thing to do (and as an excuse to give reads on a couple of controversial players), here are my current reads (players within a group are in no particular order (even though I created enough orderings to give a pretty good idea of where people are relative to each other anyway)):

Town

LlamaGod
Tasky
Vigilante Ventriloquist

Leaning Town

Ellibereth
RossWilliam

Very Slighly Town

Empking

Neutral

Zdenek

Very Slightly Scum

pappums rat (eh, Rob's suspicions of him probably bump him to the town side if Rob is scum, but I'd rather leave him on this side of the scale until Rob actually flips)

Leaning Scum

Rain

Scum

RobCapone