Cyclic Experimentation Set x01 - [Game Over]

[q21]

I like the fact that you point out that you haven't voted. Aren't votes the most powerful tool townies have? Don't they lead to VC analysis? Wouldn't scum want to be left off of VC analysis? (credit goes to MoI for teaching me these things in Secret Invasion Mafia).

Vote I am Innocent

A quick scan through IAI's ISO show's 5 votes made throughout the course of the game. Given how easy it is to check this out I don't like how happily you seemed to have jumped on it. You obviously misread something by IAI if you thought he said he hadn't voted. I'd expect a townie to check that out first, I'd expect a scum to jump on it in eagerness to press another point against your chosen target.

[I Am Innocent]

I like the fact that you point out that you haven't voted. Aren't votes the most powerful tool townies have? Don't they lead to VC analysis? Wouldn't scum want to be left off of VC analysis? (credit goes to MoI for teaching me these things in Secret Invasion Mafia).

Vote I am Innocent

A quick scan through IAI's ISO show's 5 votes made throughout the course of the game. Given how easy it is to check this out I don't like how happily you seemed to have jumped on it. You obviously misread something by IAI if you thought he said he hadn't voted. I'd expect a townie to check that out first, I'd expect a scum to jump on it in eagerness to press another point against your chosen target.

Yeah, I said I have

had

one vote the entire game, not

made

one vote the entire game. Very scummy move indeed by Bunnylover.

[I Am Innocent]

Vi, you have read up to page 20, and you are recommending lynches and protections from lynches based on that? No, it does not work that way buddy. Catch up and then you can start making some recommendations.

Oh, but yes it does work that way.

I skipped ahead just for you, and I'm willing to buy some temporary leave due to other games, but from December 22 all the way to January 6 (two weeks)? And you were literally incapable of posting anything convincing until then?

And perhaps more pressingly... you're casting doubt on ALL of my reads because YOU don't feel your description was accurate? No, please, enlighten me. Tell me how I'm wrong on the others.

And while you're here... I distinctly remember reading recently that you wanted Saint (read, ME) out of the game. Yet if I'm not mistaken, you said this slot was a Town read both before and after that statement. Really?

I was away from the 23rd to the 30th visiting my parents. I had some computer access, though I try not to hog the computer at their house. Also, my family hosted a New Years Party. Lastly, I typically do not play in more than 1-2 games at a time, but when Kunkstar invited me I felt honored so I picked up an unusual 3rd game for myself.

The other two games were in critical stages around my "actively lurking" moments. I promised rereads in both of those other two games. RC and Furc can back me up by telling you how I was at the end game of Zach's mountainous game, and though I didn't reread all 50 pages of that game, I did spend time rereading keep points of that game.

As of right now, this is my only open game. That is why the activity level is so different.

********************

As for wanting you and Furc out of the game, I have been adamant about keeping this slot in the game. The only thing I ever did against that slot was my RVS vote when I joked that Furc seemed way under control for his initial post.

Please shoe me this mysterious post where I attacked your slot? I think you may be mistaking me for BunnyLover, where I called him out for trying to get you/Vi out of this game? That was in defense of your position, not attack...

[Vi]

I skipped ahead just for you, and I'm willing to buy some temporary leave due to other games, but from December 22 all the way to January 6 (two weeks)? And you were literally incapable of posting anything convincing until then?

There was a couple of little holidays that fell in here, you might have heard of them. They're called Christmas and New Years. Some of us weren't available for mafia during that time.

For instance, you point out that "Only shows up around Page 20", as though there is a scummy reason for this, when the simple truth is that I was V/LA over that time, and had announced it clearly to the mod and in the thread.

And you'll notice that's not the excuse IAI gave, but thanks for stepping up to bat for him.

Cut.

"Only shows up around Page 20" more referred to a lack of content to go on up to that point.
Now that I have more, rest assured I don't think differently.

My gut tells me

people

would love to have Saint (or should I say Vi) out of this game.

That's not the word I saw before. I'm sorry v.v

[Saint]

I skipped ahead just for you, and I'm willing to buy some temporary leave due to other games, but from December 22 all the way to January 6 (two weeks)? And you were literally incapable of posting anything convincing until then?

There was a couple of little holidays that fell in here, you might have heard of them. They're called Christmas and New Years. Some of us weren't available for mafia during that time.

For instance, you point out that "Only shows up around Page 20", as though there is a scummy reason for this, when the simple truth is that I was V/LA over that time, and had announced it clearly to the mod and in the thread.

And you'll notice that's not the excuse IAI gave, but thanks for stepping up to bat for him.

Cut.

"Only shows up around Page 20" more referred to a lack of content to go on up to that point.
Now that I have more, rest assured I don't think differently.

My gut tells me

people

would love to have Saint (or should I say Vi) out of this game.

That's not the word I saw before. I'm sorry v.v

[WrathChild]

Vote: Wrath Child

I've made my position here pretty clear. The "if diddin flips town does not mean tmh is scum" bit only seals the deal for me.

Still catching up, but I need to comment on this:

What is scummy about this at all? Parama was proposing a chain lynch on false pretenses. Town can pass to scum or town! Scum can not pass to scum! So the only way we get a sure read is if Diddin flips scum, which means TMH is town!

That being said I will make it clear that I am leaning towards the TMH lynch myself, but I need to check something.

[I Am Innocent]

My gut tells me

people

would love to have Saint (or should I say Vi) out of this game.

That's not the word I saw before. I'm sorry v.v

No apologies necessary.

My earlier point is that while I am happy to finally get to play with the great Vi, and recognize that you are a benefit to the team if you are indeed town, you don't seem quite up to speed. Hence why I don't like you guiding lynches, etc. I have no problem with you pointing out scummy things you come across, but to list Scummiest to Towniest players based on Page 14 or Page 20 just seems like a distraction when we are on page 58. Esp since alot may have changed, like TMH making a record amount of scummy moves D2. Just my 2 cents.

[WrathChild]

OK, in a 25 player we can expect about 6 scum? (correct me if I'm wrong)

We are at 17 living players with 6 scum. That means when a player hits 3 votes (town votes) they can be hammered by scum (theoretically). I'm not saying that will happen because of the challenge of that level of coordination, but just that it is possible.

If we mislynch and we see two kills like last night we are down to 14 town versus 6 scum, lynch at eight. Hot potatoe blows up town (13 vs. 6, lynch at 7), Day mis-Kill (12 vs. 6, Lynch at 7) BAM we're in LyLo.

I think we don't have a chance of removing the Hot Potatoe, but the Day-Kill has been a liability, is in the hands of a scummy player, and needs to go for our own good.

We simply can not afford to lose 4 townies a day/night.

UNVOTE, VOTE: TMH

[Saint]

Now at Page 30. Current standings:

SCUM

*RedCoyote - No change. Same lack of content, different ten pages. Not sure if there's a RC/quadz connection in 655.
*q21 - Was kind enough to commit a personal scumtell. He only seems to show up to keep pushing the drama around; I'm looking for his posts as they come and each time I'm like "is that it?". He also managed to take E-Cookie from his top scumspect to his fifth behind four of my Town reads in 546.
*LynchMePlz - After ten pages the only thing LMP has done is wagon people shamelessly with no reasons given on bad wagons. Is nobody going to say anything about this?
*TheLonging/Lateralus22 - It seems like whenever a VI-type posts, Lat is always there with an easy follow-up question. Each time he does something that looks Townish (i.e. expressing genuine confusion about WC in 531), he immediately kills it (in 533, and later when he retracts that read and forces a post like 559 when it's obvious what WC meant in 558).
*quadz - Advocating what amounts to a policy lynch on Powerrox is terrible and his posts overall just look like they're skirting by. 702 is a weak reason to have a scumread on Saint.
*popsofctown - Makes two of the WORST votes on Powerrox (and it's hard to make bad votes for Powerrox). Spamposts are spamposts and unhelpful as usual, and push on tmh looks really bad. I'm not sure how scum-motivated his argument with Moai was though. Kind of surprised he's this low on the list actually. Also, he doesn't know what an "easy target" is (724)? lol
*EtherealCookie/nhammen - nhammen's catchup post wasn't convincing but not really damning either. I don't like dropping E-Cookie so low but the people above need to get called out.
*I Am Innocent - I'm willing to go with IAI's explanation for his activity right now. I particularly like how in 734 he nails q21 for one of the things I called out.
|<gap>|
*diddin - He didn't democratically shoot after all, but at the same time, I'm okay with buying his reasoning for it.
*Nero Cain - A couple of posts raise eyebrows but overall I don't see a reason to change my read.
*StrangerCoug - Joining the terrible tmh wagon is a giant bad spot on a record I'd be otherwise sympathetic to.
*themanhimself - If tmh is scum, he was probably getting heavily bussed during his wagon (and it would not surprise me if his wagon was largely scum if tmh is Town). Questions and theories reflect a simple newbish honesty even when wrong.
|<gap>|
*Bunnylover - Catch-up posts do not look like they were made by scum, especially if scum have daytalk.
*WrathChild - No change. At this point WC is painfully obvious Town.
*curiouskarmadog - No change.
*implosion - No change.

TOWN

Bottom two tiers should still be lynchproof at this time.

My earlier point is that while I am happy to finally get to play with the great Vi, and recognize that you are a benefit to the team if you are indeed town, you don't seem quite up to speed. Hence why I don't like you guiding lynches, etc. I have no problem with you pointing out scummy things you come across, but to list Scummiest to Towniest players based on Page 14 or Page 20 just seems like a distraction when we are on page 58. Esp since alot may have changed, like TMH making a record amount of scummy moves D2. Just my 2 cents.

I'm Professor Paragon, but I'm more like one of those nutty professors. (Actually, it's even more appropriate now because I

am

a professor IRL ) I misremember things easily and often <.<

As far as I see what I'm doing I'm not really guiding or pushing lynches so much as providing a talking point and a way of seeing my thought process. We need active players, and more importantly we need obvious Townies. The more of those we can get, the better. (Why I suddenly decided I had a stake in this game... I don't know, really.) Besides, I don't really see these reads changing, especially on the bottom part of the list.

I already asked a while ago what in brief was the matter with tmh, since it seems to be the topic of the day. I saw the daykill and it was horrible on multiple levels. That doesn't necessarily make him scum.

[Bunnylover]

I like the fact that you point out that you haven't voted. Aren't votes the most powerful tool townies have? Don't they lead to VC analysis? Wouldn't scum want to be left off of VC analysis? (credit goes to MoI for teaching me these things in Secret Invasion Mafia).

Vote I am Innocent

A quick scan through IAI's ISO show's 5 votes made throughout the course of the game. Given how easy it is to check this out I don't like how happily you seemed to have jumped on it. You obviously misread something by IAI if you thought he said he hadn't voted. I'd expect a townie to check that out first, I'd expect a scum to jump on it in eagerness to press another point against your chosen target.

Yeah, I said I have

had

one vote the entire game, not

made

one vote the entire game. Very scummy move indeed by Bunnylover.

Then my apologize.

I have had one vote the entire game, a RVS vote.

This to me does not read as you are explaining. I think its the part of the RVS vote that threw me to my conclusion (like your only vote has been your RVS vote).

[I Am Innocent]

We are at 17 living players with 6 scum. That means when a player hits 3 votes (town votes) they can be hammered by scum (theoretically). I'm not saying that will happen because of the challenge of that level of coordination, but just that it is possible.

This is certainly not LyLo, so why are you acting like we need to be afraid of a pile on? If scum quickly did so, they would out themselves, so the whole "level of coordination" thing is just an excuse. Let's find out why you are acting so bizarrely?

If we mislynch and we see two kills like last night we are down to 14 town versus 6 scum, lynch at eight. Hot potatoe blows up town (13 vs. 6, lynch at 7), Day mis-Kill (12 vs. 6, Lynch at 7) BAM we're in LyLo.

Do you really think there is one scum team that gets two kills? If not, as townies are eliminated, doesn't that increase the chance that these kills will hit each other? More appeal to fear here, wondering why still...

I think we don't have a chance of removing the Hot Potatoe, but the Day-Kill has been a liability, is in the hands of a scummy player, and needs to go for our own good.

We simply can not afford to lose 4 townies a day/night.

UNVOTE, VOTE: TMH

Ahhh, here it is, after some more appeal to fear ("We simply cannot afford to lose 4 townies a day/night)". Let us kill TMH. Before we have a chance to rid ourselves of the tree stump. Yeah that is pro town.

If TMH is scum, doesn't that mean that the day vig is likely to end up in a townies hands D3? If TMH is scum, doesn't that validate Diddin, CKD, and whoever TMH sends the ability to as "not scum teammates of TMH"?

So why kill him now? You make it sound like the main reason is to rid ourselves of the day vig ability. Do you think that ability is more detrimental to us late in the game as the tree stump??? Couldn't the day vig hold off LyLo longer in a townie's hands? Your whole argument stinks.

[I Am Innocent]

I like the fact that you point out that you haven't voted. Aren't votes the most powerful tool townies have? Don't they lead to VC analysis? Wouldn't scum want to be left off of VC analysis? (credit goes to MoI for teaching me these things in Secret Invasion Mafia).

Vote I am Innocent

A quick scan through IAI's ISO show's 5 votes made throughout the course of the game. Given how easy it is to check this out I don't like how happily you seemed to have jumped on it. You obviously misread something by IAI if you thought he said he hadn't voted. I'd expect a townie to check that out first, I'd expect a scum to jump on it in eagerness to press another point against your chosen target.

Yeah, I said I have

had

one vote the entire game, not

made

one vote the entire game. Very scummy move indeed by Bunnylover.

Then my apologize.

I have had one vote the entire game, a RVS vote.

This to me does not read as you are explaining. I think its the part of the RVS vote that threw me to my conclusion (like your only vote has been your RVS vote).

Please list your top 4 scummiest players.

What do you think of Wrath Child's last post?

[diddin]

I have a good reason we should lynch tmh today, but if he is scum, I don't want to give him any ideas. All in favor of me outing?

[LimMePls]

^^Yes please.

[diddin]

Ok. We should lynch TMH today because if he is scum, he could just pass the dayvig ability to the player his team is going to nightkill, sending it to "the void."

unvote, Vote: themanhimself

[WrathChild]

^^Yes please.

For once I agree with LMH.

I'm certain TMH is the right choice tonight. I putting my vote in on him and probably keeping it there unless anything major comes up.

@IAI: We proven ourselves either incapable of nailing scum with our Day-Kills or too heavily influence by scum to trust we get positive results. We are ZERO for FOUR with Daykills. I don't think we can remove the hot potatoe, but we can remove the Day-Kill. TMH has acted scummily beyond a doubt and I think the reason the majority of the players aren't voting him already is because he holds the Day-Kill ability.

If you are so worried about the treestump why do you not want to vote CKD?
If you are so sure TMH is scum (I re-read your ISO), why do you not want to lynch TMH?
If we aren't sure the DayVig has any more charges, why give a scummy player a hallpass?

[I Am Innocent]

Ok. We should lynch TMH today because if he is scum, he could just pass the dayvig ability to the player his team is going to nightkill, sending it to "the void."

What if I told you items could be recollected from the void. Would that change your mind?

[themanhimself]

Ok. We should lynch TMH today because if he is scum, he could just pass the dayvig ability to the player his team is going to nightkill, sending it to "the void."

unvote, Vote: themanhimself

That's a self-defeating argument considering that you're in possession of an ability that utterly nullifies that point

[WrathChild]

Ok. We should lynch TMH today because if he is scum, he could just pass the dayvig ability to the player his team is going to nightkill, sending it to "the void."

unvote, Vote: themanhimself

That's a self-defeating argument considering that you're in possession of an ability that utterly nullifies that point

How many charges do you think the Vig ability has?

[I Am Innocent]

^^Yes please.

For once I agree with LMH.

I'm certain TMH is the right choice tonight. I putting my vote in on him and probably keeping it there unless anything major comes up.

@IAI: We proven ourselves either incapable of nailing scum with our Day-Kills or too heavily influence by scum to trust we get positive results. We are ZERO for FOUR with Daykills. I don't think we can remove the hot potatoe, but we can remove the Day-Kill. TMH has acted scummily beyond a doubt and I think the reason the majority of the players aren't voting him already is because he holds the Day-Kill ability.

If you are so worried about the treestump why do you not want to vote CKD?
If you are so sure TMH is scum (I re-read your ISO), why do you not want to lynch TMH?
If we aren't sure the DayVig has any more charges, why give a scummy player a hallpass?

CKD cannot be lynched.

Lynching TMH would kill the Dayvig, which probably kills the chance to get rid of the Tree Stump.

Because the DayVig may still have more charges, and it is a chance I am willing to take. Plus all this wanting TMH dead is making me wonder if CKD and TMH are scummates, and people are bussing TMH to try to protect CKD, who has been asked to pass the tree stump to TMH. So leaving him alive for one more day has strategical purposes as well.

So why no mention of the treestump other than asking me why I am not voting someone who has it but cannot be lynched because of it?

PS - I love your original reason for wanting to get rid of TMH today is that we have to get the dayvig out of the game ASAP, then you use it later as a counter argument that "If we aren't sure the DayVig has any more charges, why give a scummy player a hallpass". So do you want him lynched because he is scummy or because of the day vig being a detriment?

[I Am Innocent]

Ok. We should lynch TMH today because if he is scum, he could just pass the dayvig ability to the player his team is going to nightkill, sending it to "the void."

unvote, Vote: themanhimself

That's a self-defeating argument considering that you're in possession of an ability that utterly nullifies that point

Good point.

TMH and Diddin, does the Bus Driver ability allow you to send someones power to anybody, or does it have to be yourself?

[WrathChild]

^^Yes please.

For once I agree with LMH.

I'm certain TMH is the right choice tonight. I putting my vote in on him and probably keeping it there unless anything major comes up.

@IAI: We proven ourselves either incapable of nailing scum with our Day-Kills or too heavily influence by scum to trust we get positive results. We are ZERO for FOUR with Daykills. I don't think we can remove the hot potatoe, but we can remove the Day-Kill. TMH has acted scummily beyond a doubt and I think the reason the majority of the players aren't voting him already is because he holds the Day-Kill ability.

If you are so worried about the treestump why do you not want to vote CKD?
If you are so sure TMH is scum (I re-read your ISO), why do you not want to lynch TMH?
If we aren't sure the DayVig has any more charges, why give a scummy player a hallpass?

CKD cannot be lynched.

Lynching TMH would kill the Dayvig, which probably kills the chance to get rid of the Tree Stump.

Because the DayVig may still have more charges, and it is a chance I am willing to take. Plus all this wanting TMH dead is making me wonder if CKD and TMH are scummates, and people are bussing TMH to try to protect CKD, who has been asked to pass the tree stump to TMH. So leaving him alive for one more day has strategical purposes as well.

So why no mention of the treestump other than asking me why I am not voting someone who has it but cannot be lynched because of it?

PS - I love your original reason for wanting to get rid of TMH today is that we have to get the dayvig out of the game ASAP, then you use it later as a counter argument that "If we aren't sure the DayVig has any more charges, why give a scummy player a hallpass". So do you want him lynched because he is scummy or because of the day vig being a detriment?

If TMH had not acted so scummily I would not have wanted him lynched. The fact that he has an ability that has been detrimental to the town is just icing on the cake.

When I said vote CKD, I meant for his vigging today.

[WrathChild]

The cycling of the ability I got works totally differently than the redirection.

Here's how it works: I pick two people. Let's call them A and B. When I use my power, any powers A would pass off instead get passed off to B. So last night, when tmh had the power, I was A and he was B.

I can then pass off the power as usual.

Here IAI

[themanhimself]

You can direct it to anyone

[I Am Innocent]

When I said vote CKD, I meant for his vigging today.

From early on D2, my strategy was to let TMH live to D3. I was not ready for the day vig to leave the game, and am still not.

Since TMH was going to live to D3 and I am very confident he will flip scum, that allows us to 1) send scummy abilities to him D3 and have them off'd and 2) confirm anyone who sends an ability to him as "not being TMH's teammate".

You sound like you think he is as scummy as I do, so why the rush? You are okay leaving the tree stump in the game then, huh?

You still have not answered that

.