Bomb Mafia -- Game Over

[Fate]

LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOOLOLOL

NICE GAMBIIT JACK.


HAHAHAHAHAHAHHAA.

SCS CONFIRMED TOWN.

MOVING ON

[StrangerCoug]

I'm resisting the temptation to gloat right now. Jack was

SO

obvscum that he got what he deserved.

Six pages isn't much to look at to get reactions, but "sociopathic" being the Mafia name makes the most sense to me as "sociopathic goon" is not in the Wiki. This suggests a multiball to me.

danakillsu screams like Jack's buddy right now. That he ignored Fate's bandwagon vote in favor of Katsuki's is an interaction I'm trying to figure out right now, but I'm lead to believe that it's dana-scum buddying up to Fate-town. I don't see anything scummy out of Fate.

VOTE: danakillsu

[Fate]

Apparently we get infinite bombs.

Why would we ever need to lynch?

do scum have daytalk?

[Benmage]

Apparently we get infinite bombs.

Why would we ever need to lynch?

do scum have daytalk?

Wow, never going into night......badass

Am I confirmed yet?

I'll do some analyzing when not on a phone.

Pass pass pass should still be the plan.

[SpyreX]

:headdesk:

I hath been defeated by madness. My bad.

[Hoopla]

Apparently we get infinite bombs.

Why would we ever need to lynch?

do scum have daytalk?

This actually isn't a bad idea... if the bombs are time-based. I assume they are, but they might be organised to be like 1 on D1, 2 on D2, 1 on D3 etc. and the times are randomised for those specific days? If it isn't though, it makes sense to just chew up all the time we have for the Day phase and use the bomb for the lynch. It'd kind of be like a Lights Out mechanic, but I get the suspicion that Red would have planned for this potential strategy.

[hitogoroshi]

Hmm. Well firstly, scum obviously don't know the bomb times. :p

Here's my interpretation of the Jack thing. Jack was telling the truth that he thought he could game the mod. We rode his ass on it and he fakeclaimed a power-role. It was a good fakeclaim (he has no bomb information but it suggests that it's educating his guess - if he gets power for every three days he holds the bomb, it stands to reason that the bomb won't explode for at least three days) but he was really just going off of his speculation, and his speculation was wrong?

Sociopathic is probably a modifier to "goon" that meant that he can't talk with this scumfriends. Seeing as Jack apparently had no PR and was actually a worse-than-normal goon, the smart money is on the scumteam being 3 (or maybe 2 and 2?).

@Fate: We do get infinite bombs, but this game DOES have deadlines. As well, they are bankable deadlines, so there's an incentive to being quick. Still, maximizing the bombs per nk ratio is also in our favor. Overall, I'm leaning in the direction of getting the bomb on our policy target then lynching now to bank some days. I'd like to have some days in my pocket in case something wacky happens.

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

Sociopathic is probably a modifier to "goon" that meant that he can't talk with this scumfriends. Seeing as Jack apparently had no PR and was actually a worse-than-normal goon, the smart money is on the scumteam being 3 (or maybe 2 and 2?).

You do realise sociopaths can totally talk to people, right? They can, in fact, talk quite loudly.

[Hoopla]

Six pages isn't much to look at to get reactions, but "sociopathic" being the Mafia name makes the most sense to me as "sociopathic goon" is not in the Wiki. This suggests a multiball to me.

I disagree - RedCoyote doesný have a meta for multiple scumteams, and in this sort of game, it would only serve to detract from the mechanic at hand. It's highly likely we're playing in a 3:11 or 4:10 set-up, as having split scumteams means 2:2:10 or 3:3:8, which are wildly unbalanced ratios

I don't exactly know what Jack's motivations were, but it's possible he was trying to buy town points by holding on to the bomb for a while, passing it off as a misguided, ego-fueled townie gambit. It's also possible he would gain powers by holding the bomb for a certain amount of time - he hinted at this possibility earlier in the game, and I don't think he'd have needed to lie about it as scum. "Sociopathic" kind of has those connotations - it's definitely a role modifier of some kind. I'm sticking with the guess that he gained powers if he held the bomb for a certain amount of time, and he deemed early D1 the safest time to do so.

You really only need to reread the start of Day 1 with Jack requesting the bomb several times - he almost gets a little desperate;

I have a bomb activated PR. Depending on how long I hold it, I get different abilities. Longer is better.

My

perfectly legitimate

guesses about when the first deadline will be are relevant here. I wanted to get it ASAP on day 1 because it would be bad from a design standpoint to have it go off before the game is up to speed.

There's no way he'd want the bomb that badly if that statement wasn't true. I'm pretty confident about this. And if this theory is correct, it gives us some pretty decent town reads;

CES is probably town. If my previous assumptions are correct, then it would be assumed that CES-scum would be on the same page as Jack, yet he didn't give the bomb to Jack first up, when he was quite obviously gagging for it. It means CES either disagreed with Jack's plan or isn't aligned with Jack. Jack is bullish, but he isn't one to cause rifts within a scumteam and if CES disagreed with his plan, Jack would likely step down or Jack would convince CES. But if CES was convinced it was a good idea, then I doubt he would have given the bomb to someone else (especially someone who hadn't been around so much), when the whole point of the plan would be to get the bomb ASAP.

~~

I think hitogoroshi is probably town too. His early opposition of Jack's publically declared plan seems earnest and he has put a lot of effort into bomb theory and the game in general so far. If hito was scum, such effort would probably enable hito to be calling a lot of the shots within the scumteam, and I don't really see him endorsing this gambit by Jack, unless there were some really dope powers to be gained.

More recently;

Hmm. Well firstly, scum obviously don't know the bomb times. :p

Here's my interpretation of the Jack thing. Jack was telling the truth that he thought he could game the mod. We rode his ass on it and he fakeclaimed a power-role. It was a good fakeclaim (he has no bomb information but it suggests that it's educating his guess - if he gets power for every three days he holds the bomb, it stands to reason that the bomb won't explode for at least three days) but he was really just going off of his speculation, and his speculation was wrong?

Sociopathic is probably a modifier to "goon" that meant that he can't talk with this scumfriends. Seeing as Jack apparently had no PR and was actually a worse-than-normal goon, the smart money is on the scumteam being 3 (or maybe 2 and 2?).

This post is very lucid and doesn't sound like it comes from a scumbag who would

know

what a Sociopathic Goon is. It's quite a creative answer, and though I don't believe this is what it is, I think it'd be difficult to think up such a creative answer when your mind is tainted by what the role actually is.

I really am not seeing a Hito/Jack scumpair, if only because their two approaches to the bomb have been so vastly different. I'm not expecting the scumteam to be perfectly cohesive, but Hito's bomb ideas have a lot of thought behind them, that them all being a front and him secretly wanting Jack to get and hold onto the bomb seems silly.

~~

StrangerCoug is likely to be town, though this tell is dependent on this not being a 4:10 set-up (I think 3:11 is still likelier, but 4:10 is workable). If it was 4:10, I could buy into SC's Jack-attack being bussing because it was pretty confident, to the point where it looks assured and that he knows Jack's role. Sometimes when bussing, it is difficult to disguise confirmed knowledge of a buddy's alignment. I think it is far likelier that SC just got lucky as town, because bussing from the outset so heavily seems kind of suboptimal if this is anything but a 4:10 set-up.


~ I'm pretty confident with these three reads.

[danakillsu]

Guys, wait. Don't lynch me. I'll hold the bomb and kill myself instead, if you want me to. I forgot about this game again, but I'll respond to my bandwagoners in a sec.

[danakillsu]

Hahaha. I call out a bandwagoner, and people vote me because I didn't vote another. To prove that had a scum motivation, you'd have to prove that Fate is scum. And he just passed the bomb to me, so us being scumpals doesn't exactly make sense. So the votes on me are pretty obviously not well thought out. On the other hand, voting Fate for his bandwagon vote would not be a problem with me in any way. It's just that Katsuki's was even worse.

oooh you failed the test BIG TIME.

If you had come in, and I would've given you leeway cause I know you're a moron, and said "OOPZ. I just checked the last post of the thread and saw Katsuki's vote and not Fate's, so I just threw down a quick vote since I'm so behind"

BUT ALL THIS "teehee well that means me and scum are Fate together cause I didnt vote Fate right??? I implicated Fate right!?!? lynch him first then when he's town I'm town rite?!??!?!?! u guiz arent thinkin. now ill make osme nonesense post about how voting fate isnt a problem but katsuki is worse even though its the same"

NUKE THIS MOTHER FUCKER JACK.

This is wrong on so many levels. First of all, I've seen this "oh, if you'd only done this" idiocy before. Lets just face it. You like to lynch me regardless. You would never have believed me if I had said something like that. Second, the imitation of me is the worst misrep I have ever seen. I never said to lynch you to prove that I am town. My post was not nonsense, nor did I say yours and kat's votes were "the same". I didn't say I implicated you. Sure, you could pass it off as a joke, but if all that was a joke, your post wasn't a case at all, and it's as close as you've come to a case.
People, I can't vote two players. I point out something scummy, and you all jump on me because I didn't mention someone else's name. That's really sad, especially since I know some of you are good players generally. Hopefully, if you do end up requesting my death, this will help you in the future not to jump so quickly on someone for leaving out ONE FREAKING WORD.

[AurorusVox]

So Dana are you now claiming that you typo'd by not mentioning Fate in your votepost for Katsuki? Tbh, I also wouldn't have been surprised by a "oh no I only saw Katsuki's vote at the top of the page" mistake. But not this, it feels very fake.

Also, you now say their votes aren't the "same" building on your point that Katsuki's was "worse." You still haven't told me why if Katsuki's was "worse" you would "happily" have voted for Fate. You're saying on the one hand that these two votes are different, but then on the other you're saying that they're interchangeable. Your story isn't straight in the slightest.

w/r/t "I'll hold the bomb instead of getting lynched" I'd rather we exhausted your passing options and left you stuck with it to foreclose any last minute shenanigans in that case, i.e. you pass it to three different people who all pass it back to you.

[danakillsu]

So Dana are you now claiming that you typo'd by not mentioning Fate in your votepost for Katsuki? Tbh, I also wouldn't have been surprised by a "oh no I only saw Katsuki's vote at the top of the page" mistake. But not this, it feels very fake.

Also, you now say their votes aren't the "same" building on your point that Katsuki's was "worse." You still haven't told me why if Katsuki's was "worse" you would "happily" have voted for Fate. You're saying on the one hand that these two votes are different, but then on the other you're saying that they're interchangeable. Your story isn't straight in the slightest.

w/r/t "I'll hold the bomb instead of getting lynched" I'd rather we exhausted your passing options and left you stuck with it to foreclose any last minute shenanigans in that case, i.e. you pass it to three different people who all pass it back to you.

No. I'm not claiming that in any way.

Katsuki's was worse because it was later. More people were on the wagon when Katsuki voted, making it slightly worse. I NEVER SAID THE TWO VOTES WERE THE SAME, WHY DO PEOPLE KEEP SAYING I DID?

This last thing doesn't make sense. Not only do you need the information from my lynch, but there's nothing I can do about the bomb, because I don't know when the deadline is. All I could do would be to pass it to someone, who would just pass it right back, which you mentioned. Realizing that, what motivation do I have for doing it?

[AurorusVox]

The way you said "leaving out ONE FREAKING WORD" made it seem like it was something you could or should have included, so I thought you were claiming to have simply forgotten it.

I didn't say their votes were the same, in fact I've highlighted twice now that you've said they're not the same. In fact my point against you hinges on you not seeing them as the same thing, because you have ALSO said you'd "happily" vote for Fate. This indicates that Fate and Katsuki are interchangeable as the target for your vote. But if Katsuki is worse due to the timing of the vote, why are they interchangeable?

Regarding "the last thing." Who knows? Maybe Jack dying with the bomb has given his scumteam an indication of impending bomb deadlines. It's safer to make sure you can't pass it to anyone; and if you intend to blow up with it anyway, what's the problem?

[Katsuki]

LOL JACK

I will either read through this game today, or after Wednesday, have a lot to do between now and then.

[themanhimself]

Hah! Fail Jack! I'm gonna do a re-read really quickly and do a catch-up post

[SpyreX]

My only concern is if we end up waiting for the bomb we'll run into stagnation periods once the target is decided.

Dana needs to go, HOWEVER I think AntB is better.

And, 165 would be enough for me to stuff all the bombs there.

[danakillsu]

@ AV
I didn't say a vote for Fate and a vote for Katsuki were interchangeable. I said that I would be fine with someone who wanted to vote for Fate for the same reason I am voting for Katsuki. But it would be BETTER if that person would vote for Katsuki.
I already told you what the problem is. Town needs to not waste a lynch on me. The rest of the Town needs the information from my death to help make a good lynch decision. So if everyone wants me to die, I'm going to die from the bomb.
@ all
I'm going to keep defending, if at all possible, don't worry. If at any time, you are convinced that I'm not as scummy as many seem to think I am, let me know. If quite a few agree, I'll try to pass the bomb. If you're set on my death, so be it. But stop voting me, that's just a waste of time.

[themanhimself]

But stop voting me, that's just a waste of time.

This is stupid and very, very scummy. VOTE: danakillsu

[AurorusVox]

I'm not saying lynch you. I'm saying you pass the bomb to other people until you can't pass it anymore and so you can't screw around with it. If you're going to die from an explosion, then what does it matter to YOU if you can't pass it any more? Sorry but I don't want to rely on trusting you to hold onto it until it detonates.

My vote is staying til you blow. The scenario I foresee is as follows, especially with you refusing to exhaust your passes; town bandwagon another player; you pass the bomb and quickhammer. I mean, if you're as good as dead anyway...

[Hoopla]

UNVOTE:
VOTE: themanhimself

[hitogoroshi]

I'm going to keep defending, if at all possible, don't worry. If at any time, you are convinced that I'm not as scummy as many seem to think I am, let me know. If quite a few agree, I'll try to pass the bomb. If you're set on my death, so be it. But stop voting me, that's just a waste of time.

Here it is

again.

"I'll only pass if you promise not to vote me." You are begging on your hands and knees that if you are going to die, please oh please let it be to the bomb. You're literally saying "okay guys, I'm only letting go of this bomb if you pinky swear not to lynch me." I smell role shenanigans.

But hey, that's a hammer with Jack's death lowering threshold! Excellent.

If Dana flips a scum role that would want to be exploded on, Spy is scum for 138.

[Hoopla]

But hey, that's a hammer with Jack's death lowering threshold! Excellent.

If Dana flips a scum role that would want to be exploded on, Spy is scum for 138.

Is it seriously?

Thanks, themanhimself.

[hitogoroshi]

Tech predictions:

Dana flips scum, wants-to-be-bombed PR = strong scumtell on Spyrex
Dana flips scum, no bomb related PR = scumtell on at least one of AntB/Kat (if Kat and AntB were townies, Dana would have no issue with the bomb flying around freely)
Dana flips town = scumtell on TMH (could also be an honest mistake, with lynch threshold being -1, but that justification seemed awfully forced, as Hoopla caught onto)

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

Unvote, vote: themanhimself