Open 272 - Near-Vanilla (Over!)

[Nachomamma8]

V/LA for a day

[andrew94]

getting on a plane. 13 hours. sleeping after. might have delay flight.

[farside22]

@farside22: can you link me some recent games of you playing as town?

I found scum has a hard time finding scum because they are scum and don't' want to rat out their scum partners. As town I know I'm suspicious of more people then not.

I really like this. I'll use it in future games.

Oh, and do you think I play as a jerk?

Here is the last game I played in before I took a break. I had to replace out do to RL issues

http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=53&t=14753

No I don't think you are a jerk but nacho for sure when I saw him as town act like a jerk to others

This, coming from you? Who has been tunneling me all game? Do you even have a 4 player scum suspect list with "fleshed out" reasons?

Now I know you are not reading this game


Somewhere in this game I feel like I missed a conversation between Lord and David but I don't have time to go back and figure it out.

Also Nacho you know I can't link ongoing games but all people have to do is check your post a day and see you are all over MS and do ignore this game a couple of days you were posting elsewhere.

Also the jerk link I post for Nacho shows a more fleshed out scum list he posted on day 1.
IGMYOU David

[smashbro_of_the_SSS]

Ok, I don't have much more to say about what's going on. My views are still the same, and I'll leave my vote on shotty for now. I'm not convinced on the case on Nacho. I get the point about his votes jumping between players, but I don't think that's enough right now. Also, I like DP's points on Egg. Aside from that, waiting on Shotty's replacement.

[Looker]

Okay I'll give a nice, long comprehensive post in the morning. Apologies for the delay in helpfulness.

• I agree with your opinion of overdefensiveness and find it a greater tell than the one he was defending.
  
• I don't entirely agree with your opinion of half-jokes simply for the fact that sometimes I'm
  not
  entirely sure or serious; however, I'll usually state why.
  
• I respect and honor you stating your opinion.
  
• And I admire you having no qualms with calling people out - it paints you townish in my book.

Agree with what nacho said. I questioned farside instead of defending nacho, but his scum list seemed perfectly reasonable. I mean it's still day 1, but it's entirely reasonable that 2 or 3 scum are all on his list. That's not even a "big" stretch. A bigger stretch would be putting ant and nacho as scum together.

• Your first big post of the game was crazy, dude; I couldn't even read that. Me personally, I'd recommend bullets so people know when you're trying to make a point and when you've moved on to the next one. What you did just seemed like idle, half-hearted rambling.
  
• I
  did
  , however, see my name and the question you posed. The answer: my scumlist.
  
• Also: Indirect defense of Shotty? Attack of sotS? Really? I'm not seeing it.

V/LA for a day

• Saw my name in your lurker roll call - my bad, got shit to do.
  
• Your posts seem like a debate to me, as if you're trying to convince AntB that he's scum.

---

• Nachomamma8 I have no read on; currently reading through sotS/andrew94 and then moving down to DMSIS/AntB.
  
• Any questions, ask while I still have access.

[lord_hur]

Here is the last game I played in before I took a break. I had to replace out do to RL issues

http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=53&t=14753

No I don't think you are a jerk but nacho for sure when I saw him as town act like a jerk to others

Alright. I remember you being much more aggressive and harsh as town, but in your previous game as town and the one before, you were about as nice as in this game.

Just to be clear in case people missed it here is my full reason's why Nacho is scum

1. He is active elsewhere on MS and ignores this game some days
2. He jumps from one vote to another on two separate people with little to no reason, although he claims both or scummy.
3. Every post I read doesn't not look or read as someone scum hunting. He post lots of arguments with players with no fleshed out reason's for his suspects.
4. His scum suspect list is weak. It has no real thought process or fleshed out aspects or comment amount other players then the 2 he has argued with all game.

meta reason:
He's not being a bully (IE: jerk) like he is when I saw him in another game and he was town.

Why stating your reasons for voting Nachomamma8 without anyone asking for them?

[farside22]

Alright. I remember you being much more aggressive and harsh as town, but in your previous game as town and the one before, you were about as nice as in this game.

Yeah my sig probably is closer to how I was when I had more time to play mafia. With less time to play I'm more I guess I would say I try to explain everything as clear as possible because I don't have always have time to repeat myself over and over with different words to be more clear.
I would say I'm aggressive in my views on who is scum. But maybe that's my own view.

Why stating your reasons for voting Nachomamma8 without anyone asking for them?

David's intro post he said he didn't get the Nacho case so I spelled it out clearly my views and why in one post.

[inHimshallibe]

Official Day 1 Vote Tally

13 players remain; 7 votes needed for a lynch.

Nachomamma8 (5)

- farside22, brokenscraps, AntB, drmyshottyizsik, lord_hur

AntB (1)

- andrew94

Archer (1)

- Nachomamma8

drmyshottyizsik (1)

- smashbro_of_the_SSS

smashbro_of_the_SSS (1)

- Looker

Egg (1)

- DavidParker

Yet to vote (4): JesseSheffield, Egg, Archer
=========================================================

Seeking Replacement

: drmyshottyizsik

Prodding

: Egg

Deadline

: Monday, January 31, 11:59 PM CT. (GMT-6)

[DavidParker]

With 8 days until deadline, I'd love to hear from brokenscraps and shotty since nacho is the only wagon at this point. No one else even has more than 1 vote, which is worrying to some extent. And shotty replacing out is annoying because of this, although we will have some fresh eyes on Nacho. Not having a competing wagon is kinda meh.

Considering we need a lynch to occur unless another wagon kicks of it's going to be nacho... or nacho.

[farside22]

With 8 days until deadline, I'd love to hear from brokenscraps and shotty since nacho is the only wagon at this point. No one else even has more than 1 vote, which is worrying to some extent. And shotty replacing out is annoying because of this, although we will have some fresh eyes on Nacho. Not having a competing wagon is kinda meh.

Considering we need a lynch to occur unless another wagon kicks of it's going to be nacho... or nacho.

Problem is the other 3 people I find scummy are more floaters. I don't know if voting out a non-participant would give any info to the game no matter their alignment.

[smashbro_of_the_SSS]

The only thing voting out a non participant would do is give us less clutter, so I'd say if there isn't another big wagon other than Nacho, then we vote out whichever of the less active people seems scummiest so there's a shot at getting scum. (Yes, I realize I don't participate as much as I should.) Still not convinced of the Nacho wagon, but I won't be broken hearted if we needed to lynch him.

As for everyone else, I still like my shotty vote, but I'm going to

unvote, vote: egg

He hasn't contributed much to the conversation, and like David said, we don't know much, if anything, about his views on people.

[farside22]

@smash: Why egg over Jesse?

[smashbro_of_the_SSS]

Even though Jesse hasn't been on much lately, at the beginning of the game, he seemed townish. He knew what was going on, and commented, and it seemed like he was trying to help, or at least point out important things. Now that I look back over the ISO, I'm not as confident about a town read on him, but I still see Egg as worse, not doing pretty much anything important. All he did was ask questions and then disappear, replying only when directly asked questions.

[farside22]

My problem with egg is if you look you see this is his first game, he isn't posting elsewhere and I frankly think he is going to flake like many a new person I have seen do in the past.
I can't say I'm a fan of his play in the least I just don't know if it's newbie town or scum play.

[andrew94]

shooty requested replacement david.

[DavidParker]

Yeah, but he's still hella scummy.

As for why Egg over Jesse. Well maybe if I could be voting both at the same time. There isn't much reason. I don't think Jesse was town at the beginning like Smash claims, but really we can't vote for all the scummy lurkers and non-contributors.

[Egg]

Life has gotten pretty busy. I will have a full post and it will come with plenty of time before deadline hits, but it might not be in the next few days.

[Looker]

As to why AntB doesn't believe what he says, refer to #175. The first quote is him saying his scumdar was pinged quite badly, and that brokenscraps's case "failed". And yet, no vote. This shows that his scumdar wasn't pinged that badly, since when people find scum, they put a vote along with their suspicions.

Note the lack of meta here.

You infer a general meta which applies to all players, expecting me to fit in with it and begin pushing a case based on non-conformity to said meta meta.

---

You also still haven't answered my question.

I would have probably dismissed the point either way,

---

So now covering up a slip isn't serious... sure whatever.

My vote was serious, in "serious times" as I felt (and still do feel) he was(is) trying to cover for a slip

Once again for further clarification, "sure whatever" is a sarcastic dismissal of the point. I have stated this once already.

---

Answer ALL of my questions.

I am doing...

---

My suspicions on andrew94 are raised from his vote on me and the painstaking process of getting a reason out of him for it.

---

You state you can't remember why you voted me, yet earlier you state you were reaction fishing.

---

The possible contradiction is in listing me as scum for pressing a brokenscraps case, then listing archer as scum for ignoring it.

• Read part of your argument with Nachomamma8 and it seems you guys are arguing more over playstyle than the actual probability of either of you being scum. You're sarcastic, you're "cool" - I get it.

shooty requested replacement david.

• More "confirmed 2nd" debate - pointless.
  
• Until you can find something worthwhile to comment on or assert, UNVOTE: VOTE: andrew94.

[DavidParker]

Life has gotten pretty busy. I will have a full post and it will come with plenty of time before deadline hits, but it might not be in the next few days.

One post a week is not what you should be aiming for when you sign a game...

[brokenscraps]

@non-voters: why aren't you voting?

With 8 days until deadline, I'd love to hear from brokenscraps and shotty since nacho is the only wagon at this point. No one else even has more than 1 vote, which is worrying to some extent. And shotty replacing out is annoying because of this, although we will have some fresh eyes on Nacho. Not having a competing wagon is kinda meh.

Considering we need a lynch to occur unless another wagon kicks of it's going to be nacho... or nacho.

If lynch is going to happen it should happen sooner rather than later to avoid revealing too much to scum. It isn't the only lynch I support but it is probably the one I'm most happy with, and it is easily the most likely at this stage. Anyone unhappy with lynching nacho should be putting serious work into finding another consensus, but if deadline gets closer they also need to consider whether a less favorable lynch (to them) would be better than no lynch.

Until you can find something worthwhile to comment on or assert, UNVOTE: VOTE: andrew94.

Really? An announced pressure vote on a player with no votes at this stage of the day?

[farside22]

• Read through and nothing jumps out at me as uber scummy. Got my eyes on lord_hur and sotS but nothing damning's come up yet.
  
• Until his return or an adequate replacement, VOTE: smashbro_of_the_SSS.

Looker I would like an explanation on why you voted for smash here and what about Lord that has you eying him?

[farside22]

Actually I could get on board with what looker pointed out. I reread Andrew how has contributed nothing but fluff and floating by saying nothing of scum hunting. His vote has been on Ant with a few questions that were pointless. I looked at his other games to see how he plays. Looking he plays like this no matter his alignment. However I saw He did push more on those he found scummy.
Show here http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 69&start=0
Looking at the scum game here He's a hard one to read alright.
In fact looking at both games neither fit how he is acting here. So I'm going to get away from the meta on this because it tells me nothing.
This case is based on game play here and it's exactly nothing. Pointless questions, floating by with little said and non contribution of scum hunting.

unvote:
vote: andrew

[DavidParker]

How is what you just described any different to say... Egg? Except Egg is far more guilty of it I feel with that one initial post where he just threw out 10 questions, and there isn't meta to support him like there is andrew.

[farside22]

How is what you just described any different to say... Egg? Except Egg is far more guilty of it I feel with that one initial post where he just threw out 10 questions, and there isn't meta to support him like there is andrew.

Egg has no other post and I'm not sure if he is newbie scum or town. He could be avoiding the game because he's scum and doesnt' want to slip or he could be town and be really busy.
With Andrew he is around MS more. I have something I can grasp on and know he isn't a newbie that may flake.

[lord_hur]

How is what you just described any different to say... Egg? Except Egg is far more guilty of it I feel with that one initial post where he just threw out 10 questions, and there isn't meta to support him like there is andrew.

I did that 2 times as town (in newbie games), so I don't really have anything against Egg (or on the other heavy lurkers) in term of alignment suspicion (of course, I hate their play like all of you, except scum of course).

Ok, so I reread andrew94's ISO (took about one minute) and the only scum-hunting I've seen is saying Nachomamma8 used a wall of text in his last game as scum. Nothing else worth mentioning except that strange bussing comment (I've always seen drawing unconditional scum relations day 1 as highly presomptuous and I never do it, but I've never noticed a link between this behavior and alignment). This guy is a lurker just as I remembered, and I have no reading of him.

And here comes the old debate, should town lynch lurkers? They're detrimential to town (if all players lurked, mafia would be a game of dice, and scum would always win), and therefore I hate their guts, so i'd say yes. I doubt it's really rational, though. Lynching a lurker gives no info to town, and let scum lead the game.