Mini 1091 Mafia Mania -- Game Over

[boberz]

Setting up suggested lnches for potential lylo is a shocking idea.

The idea that the AntB lnch would have been a quick one was a stupid thing to say.

And tbh if that was the argument against me why have you been the first one to articulate it like that. Everyone else has just been feedign off each other with imagined scumminess rather like they have been doing with antb earlier today.

[AntB]

Also, a lot of your words doesn't match up with your actions.
- Your say you're toying with self-hammering, yet you don't want the day to end this early because not enough reads and cases have been build.

The initial reference was a joke, however, as people didn't take it as that I felt I should make clear my opinion on it.
to clarify:

I will only self-hammer if we are sat on the deadline and one vote short unless someone can convince me NL is a better option.

If I was scum I would have self-hammered a long time ago, why risk outing scumbuddies when I'm past the point of no return?

- You call me repeatedly scum without a case behind it. Only thing I could find is in your notes that I was too determined to lynch Substrike which is simply ridiculous. You were close to getting lynched yesterday. All WIFOM aside, why wouldn't I lynch you and go into LyLo today without having to bus anyone? Doesn't make any sense at all.

I'll admit my notes are quite minimal, admittedly the note doesn't match up to the read. Your pushing of Substrike seems

too

hard... Without having a PR, how would you know he was scum(?)

- You first say you want to attack ATTM to get a better read on him, yet in your next post you say you're leaning scum on him without any reasoning behind it. What's worse is that you never followed up on those attacks on ATTM that you promised (unless asking him where he works and calling him lead-head helps you getting a read on him, lol ).

There has been promised content, and I was waiting on it and I didn't want to bias it, which is surprisingly easy....

Only telling people what should be done now is just you appearing to be active and pro-town while we are second guessing ourselves. But you are not wriggling yourself out of your lynch today.

I have accepted my fate, I'm lynchmeat. This said, I am VT and I do not want people marching into D4 un-prepared and my questioning today is to provide information for tomorrow.

---

#277

@Moose
One last chance to do something pro-town. saying your vig and going after boberz needs a serious come-back now.

Just another Bob/Moose connection.

Just another? Want to provide some others?

@Lateralus
Whose? if your meaning mine, Dekes and Substrike are the only ones I have >50% confidence in.

AntB makes a connection towards Sub and Dekes.

Not really... Reads don't implicitly imply connections.

I think my brain just melted...

You were attacking eac other throughout D1, then with absolutely no indication at all you buddying up as though you've been peachy all along.
Leaves me thinking you've ha d the chance to discuss things when others haven't...

I think we can ask this about you and Bob now.

[/quote]
I don't see any buddying. None any where near the blatant buddying I was referring to in the related attack.

There was some buddying between Bob and AntB D1. Might just be me here, but those "notes" just seem shotty for notes on D3. Doesn't seem like there is much content from someone taking notes if they have been throughout the game.

I take minimal notes. My reads, primary reasoning, suspicions and flips. That's all I need and update them whenever the need arrives

@Antihero
Never said it wasn't.


P-EDIT
Bet your glad for no hammer now

Fixed quote tag. ~~NS

[AntB]

fail quotes..

@Mod: Fix if you can please

[Dekes]

If I was scum I would have self-hammered a long time ago, why risk outing scumbuddies when I'm past the point of no return?

Holy WIFOM.
How about you achieved your goal in town second guessing the hell out of themselves (more and more people considering a boberz' lynch over your lynch, look below for details).

I do not analyse everyone in game. I will not start today at the will of some randoms.

I will add content, probably tomorrow as I have been in hospital and just woken up at home.

I did act against AntB I didnt unvote, because AntB quickhammering should have proved his scummines. I was not against a quick selfhammer, I am against a quick town selfhammer.

The "randoms" you call are the people who are playing this game with you and who'd like you to share your opinion on other players to get a better read on you. Any refusal of sharing your reads and opinions is scummy. Period.

The last sentence is bogus. If AntB self-hammers, we'll know his alignment soon enough and that doesn't prove his scumminess or non-scumminess in the slightest. The only reason for keeping the day alive was to keep gathering information and the fact that you left the risk of self-hammering alive by not unvoting is that you were just pretending to be interested in keeping the day alive. Scummy.

Dekes, in #562, you call AntB town. What changed your mind?

In fact, I called him town on several occasions. Because that's what my read was until D3. I knew this was his first Normal Game so I gave him the benefit of the doubt. He took a lot of independent stances and he wasn't afraid of attacking rather baselessly, usually typical newbie town tells.
But his interactions during and prior to the Substrike hammer, his 180s of his reads on D3 and his "woe is me, I'm townie" spiel while being in lynch vicinity is just too fucking obvious to overlook.

If you want me to choose between AntB and boberz? There's something incredibely akward in how boberz is approaching this imminent AntB lynch ("might be too easy, yet I'm keeping my vote on him"). And the discrepancy between how he handled the Substrike wagon yesterday and the AntB wagon today gives me the feeling there's informed minority at work here. Which would point a lot to boberz scum and maybe even AntB town (fuck you, AntB, for already second guessing myself). Yet I still have the stronger belief in "if AntB is scum, then boberz is scum" than "if boberz is scum, then AntB is scum". So I'm still up for an AntB lynch unless everybody else is up for a boberz lynch first.

On a sidenote, Mari, I still think you're suffering from the same fate that Fate (oh no, he didn't) did in Biggest Game. You've only completed a game with me where I was scum. And because I played decent there and fooled some of you there for a while, you seem to feel like you don't want to rule me out because you don't want to get fooled again instead of just looking without any bias at what I've done so far like getting Substrike lynched when there was absolutely no need to if I was scum. And btw, you give Lat credit for riding Substrike hard on D1 while there was little to no chance of Substrike getting lynched with the moose/Beefster/werewolf-wagons going on when he was barely on him on D2. That doesn't add up, sweetie.

/offtopic
a) I'm already looking forward to X-Files mafia and if you're not in it, you should totally join
b) If anyone is interested in being my back-up mod for my Mini Normal Game (in return I'd offer being back-up mod as well, of course), shoot me a pm.

[boberz]

The "randoms" you call are the people who are playing this game with you and who'd like you to share your opinion on other players to get a better read on you. Any refusal of sharing your reads and opinions is scummy. Period.

Firstly bollocks.
Secondly why didnt you say this when I was asked this earlier, and refused?
Thirdly who taught you mafia, they are crap (unless you just ignored them which is more probable)

The last sentence is bogus. If AntB self-hammers, we'll know his alignment soon enough and that doesn't prove his scumminess or non-scumminess in the slightest. The only reason for keeping the day alive was to keep gathering information and the fact that you left the risk of self-hammering alive by not unvoting is that you were just pretending to be interested in keeping the day alive. Scummy.

I was at no point trying to stall the day, it is all you other buggers who are donig that. I just wanted a quick explanation from all the AntB voters as to why they were on him. They gradually unvoted him, which was telling I think.

On a sidenote

To keep bringing this up is antitown also. It is always going to bias mari one way or th

[Mariyta]

I'm not sure what's so stupid about max's last comment.

Here, let me articulate what I don't like about you: you actively detracted from a scumwagon and promoted a really poorly founded vote.

And don't forget the two (That's 2) hammer votes.

Setting up suggested lnches for potential lylo is a shocking idea.

I hope this is sarcasm. With the way things are now, we need to lynch correctly today, so analyzing all the options (which you apparently refuse to do) is essential. I realize you've been sick or whatever, but you've also been combative and unhelpful all game. Also, Antihero is not the first one to post a case against you. Hes just the first one to say "Here's the case against you."

@Dekes: Part of it is probably that, yes. But part of it is also that I see potential connections, and you're a good player. I can't rule you out, but you're not top of my suspect list. As for Lat, he was essentially AWOL for quite awhile, so I'm not weighing D2 as heavily.

After boberz comments today, and his apparent refusal to participate in lynching anyone but AntB, I think I prefer him for today's lynch. AntB will clearly go along with it. Antihero, Dekes, what say you?

Re: /offtopic I'm in it! <3 Alex Krycek. So hot.

[boberz]

Ok you lying bugger.

"With the way things are now, we need to lynch correctly today" - We are not in lylo
"so analyzing all the options (which you apparently refuse to do) is essential" - When did I say that?
"but you've also been combative and unhelpful all game" - combative,yes unhelpful no.
It was the first coherent case. quote me other people's cases. People were just feeding off each other, saying things like 'boberz is getting worse' and 'i favour a boberz lynch' nobody is scrutinising the bloody wagons. Town are honestly crap in this game.

After boberz comments today, and his apparent refusal to participate in lynching anyone but AntB

WHen did I say or indicate this. Another lie. the only other person under suspicion is me, I am not going to suspect me am I (unless I become another selfhammering dickhead)

Tbh I no longer care but you are all buggered cos your all crap. And impossible to work with.

It is probs attm and antb. for reasons outlined.

[Mariyta]

Lying bugger? God, I love Brits. Anyway, when did I say we were in LyLo? I didn't. I said we need to lynch right today. So we're NOT in LyLo tomorrow. I like how you call us all crap, yet refuse to do anything to further the town's cause. You refuse to analyze anyone but AntB, and now you're taking your toys and going home, rather than doing anything useful, like explaining why it's not AH or Dekes, or explaining why it's "probs" Max.

[boberz]

I am not taing my toys anywhere an I do not refuse to anlyse anyone but AntB, it is interesting how you did not take my challenge to find where I said that. I think you will find I refused to analyse everyone publically, which is the protown position to take.

[Mariyta]

How is not giving your opinions on people "pro-town"? Especially when we're having such a hard time figuring out who to lynch? If you want to keep your opinions to yourself, fine, but don't expect us to just assume you are town when you're doing nothing to promote that.

[boberz]

On

everyone

!! Read me.

It shouldnt be a hard time. The AntB wagon was raring not long ago and nobody had great reasons for leaving. I have asked people for the reasons they were on it, reasons they left it, or indeed reasons they were never on it.

We are the only viable wagons.

[Nobody Special]

CORRECTED Votecount 3.05

(still unchanged)

AntB - 2 - boberz, Dekes
Antihero - 1 - AntB

Not Voting: Antihero, Ant_to_the_max, moose200x, Mariyta

Deadline: February 5.

With 7 alive, it takes 4 to lynch.

[Nobody Special]

Searching for a replacement for moose200x.

[Mariyta]

Dekes, when did you vote Lat/Antihero?

[Ant_to_the_max]

@MOD: post #753 has Dekes voting for AntB, so AntB should be at L-2

We are the only viable wagons.

By the end of today I'll throw my vote on AntB. Unless you guys want to wait around for Moose's replacement.

Votecounts have been fixed. Please accept my apologies. ~~NS

[Dekes]

Firstly bollocks.
Secondly why didnt you say this when I was asked this earlier, and refused?
Thirdly who taught you mafia, they are crap (unless you just ignored them which is more probable)

I didn't mention it earlier because my last post was long enough as it was. You keep refusing to give out your reads while demanding from players on the AntB wagon to give a detailed read on AntB (though I've been really clear with my reasons on why AntB is scum and Mari has given their reasons as well).

I don't know what the ad hom was for but I guess to each their own. Even if you don't believe it, but mafia can and should be a game of cooperation as well.

I was at no point trying to stall the day, it is all you other buggers who are donig that. I just wanted a quick explanation from all the AntB voters as to why they were on him. They gradually unvoted him,

which was telling I think.

What do you even want to say with this? How was it telling? Does that make AntB more likely town (then why do you keep your vote on him and want him lynched?)? Does that make the people who unvoted him more likely scum (though the only persons who unvoted were Mari who's still basically confirmed town and me who voted him again once he was back at L-3. And it doesn't match with your scum team pick of AntB/ATTM). That looks like just an empty phrase you threw in there that pretends to be meaningful.

@Mari
The theory of "if AntB is scum, boberz is most likely his partner" still stands. There is a pretty darn good case for boberz being scum and there's the added bonus of getting rid of his annoying play style. I will support a boberz lynch if the majority is up for it. But I'm still surer about AntB being scum.

Also I do want to wait for the moose replacement before night for obvious reasons.

/offtopic
Sorry, too late, I already asked the mod for dibs on Krycek. And with that, we better end this discussion here

[Dekes]

EBWOP:

There are actually a couple of VC's incorrect. I'd ask NS to fix that but it seems he's busy enough with this game already as it is.

Votecounts have been fixed. Please accept my apologies. ~~NS

[Antihero]

Alright, let's finish this painful readthrough.

I know hindsight is 20/20, but the beefster lynch was a sad thing as I have yet to see a great justification for it.
AntB emerges from Day 1 looking the worst w/ the crappy attacks on beefster and the "if I die overnight" act.
Reaction to Mari = scum; I saw where he said he was going to tell us where Mari was "misrepping" but that never actually materialized. The "buddying" thing is also pretty lame.
The immediate backing off of Mari when moose claims a result is pretty telling to me. The idea of GF didn't even cross his mind? Whenever I see something like that as town, I don't tend to back off so easily (maybe that's just because I'm an overconfident asshole though).

I'm not a fan of boberz or max, but I think AntB is the optimal lynch today as he is far and away the scummiest.

Mari,
As for Dekes, he's one of the most townish people alive. I hate the beefster vote, but everything else he writes seems reasonable and well thought out.
As for boberz, he did some stuff early on that I didn't like (poo poo the substrike wagon for no reason), but I'd much prefer a AntB lynch.

VOTE: AntB

This is L1. No one hammer until we hear a claim.

[Dekes]

He did claim already. VT, worded it all fancy.

[AntB]

Nope, I just said I had nothing to claim...

@Antihero
There's also the possibility of a naive investigation. A cop clear for now doesn't leave much to go on and I would press anyone pushing a godfather case.

[Mariyta]

Alright. I'm content with an AntB lynch today, and Max or boberz tomorrow. Shall I place the hammer or wait for moose's replacement?

[AntB]

Calling AttM as scum

*waits for the hammer.. even though there's still a week left*

[boberz]

No need for the replacement, they are as near to confirmed town as I think we are going to get.

[Ant_to_the_max]

Nope, I just said I had nothing to claim...

@Antihero
There's also the possibility of a naive investigation. A cop clear for now doesn't leave much to go on and I would press anyone pushing a godfather case.

Anyone else find the first part odd?

A naive Jack of All Trades?

No need for the replacement, they are as near to confirmed town as I think we are going to get.

Umm yes there is. According to Moose he still has one more action up his sleeve.

[boberz]

And his replacement will get that action during the night, the mod wont end a night without a replacement he is not a fool.