Cyclic Experimentation Set x01 - [Game Over]

[popsofctown]

I see what you did thar

[Saint]

So, question for quadz and RedCoyote.

In most games with more than one kill at Night, the idea of two scumgroups never comes up at all. So why is this game a special occasion? And for bonus points, RedCoyote, why is themanhimself scummy for mentioning a different possibility?

The only game I've been in where someone started speculating about the existence of multiple scumgroups without it previously being common knowledge involved that someone being scum on one of those scumgroups.

Further, hammering in that diddin and themanhimself CAN BOTH BE SCUM UNDER THIS NOT-NECESSARILY-APPLICABLE CIRCUMSTANCE seems like a good way to stop Town reads from coming out, which is really rather harmful for the Town, so etc.

If there are multiple scumgroups, most of us who, y'know, don't have that inside knowledge would be best served assuming we have one group until proven otherwise, at which time we can re-evaluate our Town reads.

----

^Quadz is so scum.

Him or WC, decisions, decisions...

Quadz definitely.

----

No one asked theman why there were two kills. He just threw it out there.

I don't want to get into a theory discussion about what the most likely explanation is here, because I don't think it's necessary. What I do think is that the way theman framed that statement looked wholly ungenuine, which has been characteristic of his play thus far. I got the exact same vibe from the no lynch comment, Vi. The exact same vibe. Now tell me, what do you think of that?

Unless you can tell me why it looks wholly ungenuine, the only response to the first sentence here is... so what? And my response to the rest is - why not vote quadz for the same logic?

He offered to. That's the point. He let the cat out of the box. No one knew he had the Vig power until he offered that information to us. As if that weren't bad enough, you know, the cherry on top is that he then tells us he's selling his Vig shot to the whims of the public. If it was bad to do this on the first day, it was worse to do this on the second day when there were four less townies to chime in.

Oho~ Thanks for picking up right where I expected LMP-scum to go!
*You can't hide that you have the dayvig if you're planning to use it. diddin did say that you had to post inthread to use it. If you're planning to use it, there's no reason not to say you have it. None whatsoever given the Virus running aboot.
*"It was bad to do this on the first Day" goes back to the theory discussion I had with LMP. Whether it's good or bad is a topic of pointless debate we can have in MD later, but calling it

scummy

is right out. The last part just doesn't make sense - it must be hideously anti-Town for us to lynch on Day 2 because there are seven fewer Townies directing the lynch.

Parama may have been a prick this game, but he was laying out clear suspects and giving us his impression of the game. He wasn't a leader in this game, no, but a game won't run with 12 leaders trying to pull the game in 12 different directions. If you are a townie who, one, is looked upon by the majority of the game as a townie, two, is using your vote rationally, and three, is giving clear reads on the game at at least somewhat regular intervals, then you are a serious threat to scum. Period. Few players had such a standing in this game. Parama was one of them.

It was a scummy shot, but I don't think I have to sell you on that. It was a really scummy shot. Do you agree?

No. If I were around at the time I wouldn't have paid attention to anything Parama said, and offhand I don't think many others did either because he decided to go the loud and obnoxious route instead of actually explaining himself. And it showed when people - all but one of whom I have a Town read on - wanted Parama out.

*shrug*

I feel confident he's scum. Sorry. I mean, what do you want me to say? I'm not going to just cross my fingers and hope he's lynched. I have to work for it. That's what you'd expect me to do, right?

Still, I understand and agree with your point about not drawing connections via a townflip. I only counter by say that, after the first scumflip, all townflips become more informative. Would you agree?

You're welcome to push for the lynches of people you think are scum, but guaranteeing that someone will flip scum reeks of CAPS LAWCK or inside information. And one of the few pro-Town things I can say about your play in this game is that you're not CAPS LAWKE.

After the first scumflip, only the Townflips that matter by association become more informative. We still don't get anything from muh or Parama, for instance.

Even if I take your word for it (I do), why do you need to say

[that nobody considered the numbers]

? Why didn't theman say when he shot that he suspected a lot of Parama heat, or, heck, I'll even take it after the fact. Why not point this out? I mean, even you have to admit that you doing this and not the man himself (I guess this happens more often than I thought, heh) is a little suspect, right?

You don't need to physically count votes to see that he's the one most people want... and frankly tmh wanted to shoot Parama anyway.

What's more interesting is that you and IAI are trying to paint Parama as a shot that nobody wanted when that's not the case.
Historical revisionism or honest mistake? I report, you decide.

----

Ummmmmm... I suspected you long before Vi started posting. Nice try on the misrep, though.

ITT quadz implies he hasn't read anything I've said?

----

Very necessary tl;dr -
The first part speaks for itself and you should read it again, then skip the rest of the quote boxes.
Pretty much all of RedCoyote's reasons for pushing themanhimself are fraudulent.
quadz has nothing to say for himself.
Both of them are independently scum and I would be very happy to see either of them lynched Today.

[popsofctown]

Compromise is where I ask you to vote LMP, then you do it. Compromise.

[I Am Innocent]

What's more interesting is that you and IAI are trying to paint Parama as a shot that nobody wanted when that's not the case.
Historical revisionism or honest mistake? I report, you decide.

No, what I am painting is that Player X did the following scummy things:
1) Stole the dayvig ability which eliminated a pairing we could have had with Diddin. Anti MOI Plan. And against what TMH said earlier D1 was a sound strategy***
2) Said he was going to give the group 48 hours to make a decision, then 24 hours, then made a kill at 10.5 hours when almost half the people did not chime in.
3) He killed a player without asking for a claim. A player you and I both thought and mentioned in the thread prior to the kill had the Doctor ability. Don't you think scum want pro town power roles out of this game so it eliminates pairings/confirmed townies + it eliminates power that helps town. Guess what, the Doctor role is now completely useless as DBE and Parama, the two holders of it are both dead, and the power is now gone from the game. If that is not scum motivation, then I don't know what is!

Yes I wanted to go back and check how may people listed Parama. I also wanted to see how many people did not get a chance to speak up, which was close to half by your chart.

***Contradiction alert!

This is actually your strategy from post #67, I just applied it to the dayvig role. It's a lot less reckless than pushing a scum to use his killing ability. Besides, this way it almost certainly ends up in town hands tomorrow. If diddin is scum as a lot of people believe then he can't pass it to a scumbuddy so it has to go to town. If diddin is town then it ends up in the hands of someone the town largely believes to be innocent.

@ TMH, why again did you steal the dayvig when you said this back on page 10?

[I Am Innocent]

I want everyone on record on the following two questions before we get to N2.

1) If TMH survives to D3, and assuming the day vig makes it to D3, should TMH be killed D3 (either voluntarily by holding the virus, or forced through the day vig)?

2) If TMH survives D2, should CKD pass the tree stump to TMH N2?

My answers
1) yes
2) yes

[quadz08]

ITT quadz implies he hasn't read anything I've said?

Ummmmm... care to explain that comment?

I want everyone on record on the following two questions before we get to N2.

1) If TMH survives to D3, and assuming the day vig makes it to D3, should TMH be killed D3 (either voluntarily by holding the virus, or forced through the day vig)?

2) If TMH survives D2, should CKD pass the tree stump to TMH N2?

1) yes
2) yes

[Bunnylover]

I want everyone on record on the following two questions before we get to N2.

1) If TMH survives to D3, and assuming the day vig makes it to D3, should TMH be killed D3 (either voluntarily by holding the virus, or forced through the day vig)?

2) If TMH survives D2, should CKD pass the tree stump to TMH N2?

My answers
1) yes
2) yes

TMH will die. I would want by the vig so he can't pass the virus.
I see no reason not to pass the tree stump to TMH since everyone wants to get rid of it (yes inculding me).

[LimMePls]

1)yes
2)yes

[q21]

I want everyone on record on the following two questions before we get to N2.

1) If TMH survives to D3, and assuming the day vig makes it to D3, should TMH be killed D3 (either voluntarily by holding the virus, or forced through the day vig)?

2) If TMH survives D2, should CKD pass the tree stump to TMH N2?

1) YES
2) This one I'm not so sure of anymore. If we're still assuming the dayvig makes it to day 3, then yes. But that assumption is dangerous here because if the dayvig doesn't make it we're forced to give scum TMH another day.

I have scumreads on Nero Cain, Bunny, and Saint still. I could have my vote on any one of the three, but it wouldn't mean anything, and I don't really think any of them is scummier than another. If it's gonna be an issue for me to not my have my vote somewhere, I'll throw it on one of the three of them.

It would mean something if you voted Saint, since then there would be 2 people voting for that particular scum.

[WrathChild]

Ok, back from the weekend and pretty much all caught up. Reminder, I am V/LA on weekends. Be back with some comments.

[WrathChild]

The optimal plan of action is to vig diddin and then lynch TMH if diddin flips town.

Best post of Parama's ISO. It makes me worried.

On the top layer, I think I agree with this, but I want to look at our options before anyone pulls the trigger.

The optimal plan of action is to vig diddin and then lynch TMH if diddin flips town.

I just realized something. Parama is forcing false chain lynches,

IF Diddin flips town, it does NOT mean TMH is scum.

2 questions: what caused you to just realize something? Do you believe that both of these slots have acted horribly scummy?

Yes, I believe that Parama, Diddin and TMH have all acted scumily. See my ISOs #91-94, 100-101. Specifically see my reasoning on my ISO #93 regarding Parama.

Parama

was in possession of the

Doctor

ability.

Hmmm... Apparently I misinterpreted the role information that I had.

FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU

Interesting reaction to Parama's doc flip. Why is this the only comment you have? Anything else to say? No. Ok then.

As I've said before, I almost exclussively post from work, that post was made in a very short amount of time I had online at home. Really there isn't much else to say. The next day (RL) I begin analyzing who our best lynch candidate is, which is the only thing I can do.

That was actually intended for diddin, but to respond to your question: Bunny and WC are slightly scummy, while pops is on the town side of null. I've been meaning to look over pops' ISO, though; that's pretty much a gut feeling on him.

Also, I feel like it might not be a bad idea to just lynch TMH now. With this many dead townies, we can't afford to have scum end up with an extra kill, whether it's by poor passing decisions from TMH, or the redirector, or even something we don't know about. And besides, after the kill on Parama after promising multiple times to wait? Let's hang this guy.

VOTE: TMH

Frankly, I propose we lynch theman now. True, we're losing our daykill, but he basically just claimed scum with that shot. Before I just had reason to believe he was scum given his support of no lynching yesterday and his stealing the Vig ability, but now I know it. I don't know if the town should scoff at this without considering it. A scum flip will give us better information going into tomorrow. Additionally, if we lynch a scum today, and whoever has the other night shot knocks off another scum on the same team, we'll be in much better standing.

Vote: themanhimself

Thoughts?

I highly disagree with this plan. There are much better options. We already know he is scum, now we want to find connections. We should be using cycling to give us more confirmed town, and using reactions to find scum.

See my ISO #105. I disagree. I don't think we can rely on cycling to confrim alignments. There are too many variables to account for. If we can lynch scum today we need to do it. Period.

[WrathChild]

I see how you got what you got very clearly, but I'm expecting a lot more out of you. You're after one person for one thing. Seventeen players remain. There are not sixteen townies left—I'd say at least ten, maybe eleven. You're not expected to have a top five or a top six, but you

ARE

expected to have more than one scumread at this stage of the game. Three would be nice.

QFT!!!

TMH is scum.

WC seems like his buddy

. CKD is scum. Quadz is prolly his buddy.

Where the hell do you get this idea? I'll be back with a scumtage of Nero's mudslinging on me.

[WrathChild]

Nothing. Everyone wants her dead

It was a serious question. Shouldn't we be thinking about the information we will get when she's dead?

Instead of criticizing pops you should do the same and answer the question.

If my vote isn't on you it deserves to be now.

unvote;vote:Wrath

IF Diddin flips town, it does NOT mean TMH is scum.

Obv buddy is obv

The Prama shot was horrible.

We lynch WC today.

Then TMH and CKD and maybe Quadz tomorrow.

I see how you got what you got very clearly, but I'm expecting a lot more out of you. You're after one person for one thing. Seventeen players remain. There are not sixteen townies left—I'd say at least ten, maybe eleven. You're not expected to have a top five or a top six, but you

ARE

expected to have more than one scumread at this stage of the game. Three would be nice.

QFT!!!

TMH is scum. WC seems like his buddy. CKD is scum. Quadz is prolly his buddy.

So the entire Day 1 Nero doesn't look twice at me. Then I ask a question regarding the Darla Lynch and all of a sudden I'm Obvscum and I'm scumbuddies with my #1 Scumspect. This is definately a weak attack on me by Nero and reminds me of LMP's tactics as well.

[WrathChild]

WrathChild:

Parama, The man himself, Diddin, Lateralus22, popsofclown, powerrox93, I am Innocent

(7)

EC:

RedCoyote, Saint, curiouskarmadog, I Am Innocent

(4)

Helghast:

Lateralus22, pops

(2)

Nero Cain:

chkflip

(1)

Narsis:

Saint

(1)

Current hit list for didden, note there

may be some errors so please point them out.

I've got your name there if you've expressed some interest in the vig candidate even if they weren't your first choice but you were willing to compromise but haven't got your name next to someone unless I thought you said exactly that you would be cool with switching to them.

Yet Helghast, who was under EC at this moment, was the hit. Could it be because of the following three posts, which were made prior to this vote count by Lat? (I say yes):

I fail to see what's scummy about EC at all... if someone can post a case I'll consider it.

I'd be more willing to lynch Wrath... Helghast seems to be more of a vigbait player.

However I don't want to have ANOTHER claim and risk outing powerful roles. I've already forced one claim and really don't want to make someone else claim.

He's posted... pretty much a whole lot of nothing really. His last post may be a chainsaw, but those read null without a flip.

Unless there are some serious objections, I'm gonna go ahead and shoot Helghast. I'll support a lynch of Wrath today instead as Helghast is screaming vigbait to me quite a bit.

Count me as a 2nd who has not seen anything scummy about Helghast. What is the reasoning there?

As for EC, his attack on Parama was all over the place. He attacked him for passing the Bomb off, the alternative was to keep it. I questioned him on this and did not care for the response.

Quite a few people have said EC. If you are not going to switch to EC, my vote is to keep it on the player who has claimed no power (WC) before Helghast.

You realize I'm talking about themanhimself in the first paragraph, right?

I'm not shooting EC. Helghast has already claimed no power as well.

So regarding the below, I believe Lat's (later) vote counts were swayed by the fact the person holding the day vig said EC was off limits. (Post one, why is EC scummy, Post two, I don't want to out any more power roles, Post three, I am not shooting EC) Agree?

You're ignoring a few key points here.

1) If Lat's vigvote counts were correct, the choices diddin made

were indeed

between the top two vote-getters. That they happened to be claimed Vanillas was a pleasant and desirable side effect.

This has been my main argument against Diddin for a while. His Dayvig shot was totally and completely false-democracy. TMH's Dayvig shot was even more obvious false-democracy.

TMH passed Bus Driver to Diddin, meaning that both Diddin AND TMH can not be scum. IF we lynch TMH and he flips scum, then Diddin is confirmed town. At that point I would be comfortable with Diddin taking the Dayvig. If TMH flips town I don't like Diddin having the Dayvig again.

[themanhimself]

Your last vote was on Prama...he died. I doubt you can vote a dead player.

Join me in voting Quadz.

Not 100% sure why you would doubt me on this but whatever

Hrm.... so I'm guessing there's an SK? Either that or a vig but if there's a vig the ability probably cycles so I don't know that it's much use trying to get anything from that.

Lat is confirmed town

Anyway, I want an explanation for this and until I get one VOTE: Parama.
Also, who has the hot potato for today? I've reason beyond our previous speculation to believe that it came back today but I'll get into that a little later.

Isn't it obvious to see why it isn't true? You're giving us a false dilemma, either did din is scum or I am when that's clearly not the case. If we're both town then you're setting up two consecutive mislynches. I think diddin is scum but if I'm wrong then you're trying to kill two townies with one stone. It's brilliant because one flipping town incriminates the other as scum so one mislynch automatically buys two. Very clever. VOTE: Wrathchild

So, again,

@Mod: Is there a problem with the vote count?

[WrathChild]

Your last vote was on Prama...he died. I doubt you can vote a dead player.

Join me in voting Quadz.

Not 100% sure why you would doubt me on this but whatever

Hrm.... so I'm guessing there's an SK? Either that or a vig but if there's a vig the ability probably cycles so I don't know that it's much use trying to get anything from that.

Lat is confirmed town

Anyway, I want an explanation for this and until I get one VOTE: Parama.
Also, who has the hot potato for today? I've reason beyond our previous speculation to believe that it came back today but I'll get into that a little later.

Isn't it obvious to see why it isn't true? You're giving us a false dilemma, either did din is scum or I am when that's clearly not the case. If we're both town then you're setting up two consecutive mislynches. I think diddin is scum but if I'm wrong then you're trying to kill two townies with one stone. It's brilliant because one flipping town incriminates the other as scum so one mislynch automatically buys two. Very clever. VOTE: Wrathchild

So, again,

@Mod: Is there a problem with the vote count?

Maybe he just doesn't count crappy survival votes.

If you actually read what I wrote I said (like several times) the only guarantee we get is if you flip scum, which makes Diddin town. If you flip town it does nothing, if Diddin flips town it does nothing. So you are misrepping me AND voting me on that misrep.

I'm very happy with my vote on TMH right now. I don't care one bit that he has the day-vig. Dead scum is dead scum. So many things can go wrong with ability passing and tracking. There is no reason to hold off on lynching scum just because you want to track their ability. In fact I'm suspicious of those advocating doing so. I've seen confirmed scum, buy days for one reason or the other and never get lynched. We don't lynch him today because he has the Day-Vig ability and tomorrow it will be another thing, like "Oh, I'm the cop". We could lose the Dayvig ability at night, we could lose the virus tomorrow making the Dayvig cease to function, etc.

[Nero Cain]

RE #1589: If I missed it I'm sure he missed it to.

[Vi]

[etc.]

Guess what, the Doctor role is now completely useless as DBE and Parama, the two holders of it are both dead, and the power is now gone from the game. If that is not scum motivation, then I don't know what is!

You missed a little. You showed that there would most certainly be scum motivation for TMH to act as he did. I don't think he was motivated by being scum, because bluntly for him to be scum he would have to be more cunning than I would give him credit for, not to mention abjectly shameless.

With that said, I didn't understand your contradiction the first time I looked at it so I went back--

Hm... a thought occurs. Could we perhaps use bad abilities (like the treestump) to test possible mafia partners? Mafia can't pass to mafia of the same faction. So if suspicion arises that X and Y are mafia together, we could test the theory by passing the treestump to X and telling them to pass it to Y. If random person Z gets the treestump ability, then X and Y are mafia together (or Z is lying, which in the treestump's case, can be tested by having them vote someone). Notes: fails epically if mafia happen to have a bus driving ability.

Acutually, come to think of it, if there is an ability that affects the way abilities are passed (i.e. bus driving) it could be bad early and late on, and something like that is decently likely to be present considering how well it would fit with the mechanic.

Prophetic enough, but I have a Town read on implosion, so anyway.

tmh directly acknowledges this in his 125.

The contradiction takes on an interesting flavor when you see it in context:

In fact, why don't we vote on who it should go to tomorrow and then if it doesn't go to that person then we have a good scumlink, if it does go to that person then we have it in the hands of someone that most people don't believe is scum.

Good idea, especially when the scum kill that person and the dayvig winds up in the void.

This is actually your strategy from post #67, I just applied it to the dayvig role. It's a lot less reckless than pushing a scum to use his killing ability. Besides, this way it almost certainly ends up in town hands tomorrow. If diddin is scum as a lot of people believe then he can't pass it to a scumbuddy so it has to go to town. If diddin is town then it ends up in the hands of someone the town largely believes to be innocent.

I think at this point I should stop talking and let the man himself answer this one.
1) What were you trying to do with this?
2) Why didn't you claim your ability during any of this?

----

1) If TMH survives to D3, and assuming the day vig makes it to D3, should TMH be killed D3 (either voluntarily by holding the virus, or forced through the day vig)?

2) If TMH survives D2, should CKD pass the tree stump to TMH N2?

1) I would rather kill scum, so theoretically no. In practice, my voice will probably be overruled and I really wouldn't want to have anything to do with the Virus and dayvig anyway, so I honestly don't care.
2) The tree stump should only be passed to whoever will get daykilled D3. If you're going to kill TMH anyway, you may as well give him the stump.

-----

quadz - Absolutely. You said you had a scum read on Saint since before I posted. Yet you've acknowledged almost nothing of what I've said, even after I pretty much directly called you out for being scum multiple times. I'm led to believe you either haven't read it all, already had your mind made up about this slot with artificial tunnel vision, or both.

So pops - LMP might be scum, but I'm willing to bet much more that quadz is scum. YOU join ME.
Furcolow - RedCoyote can be next.

Unvote: RedCoyote
Vote: quadz08 (L-7)

q21 - The chance of you lynching me Today without pulling your entire scum team with you is nil. You may as well not bother.

-----

themanhimself

- There are two questions up there for you. Answer them.

[Saint]

ITT Vi is Bad at Mafia. And prefers FireFox.

---

[etc.]

Guess what, the Doctor role is now completely useless as DBE and Parama, the two holders of it are both dead, and the power is now gone from the game. If that is not scum motivation, then I don't know what is!

You missed a little. You showed that there would most certainly be scum motivation for TMH to act as he did. I don't think he was motivated by being scum, because bluntly for him to be scum he would have to be more cunning than I would give him credit for, not to mention abjectly shameless.

With that said, I didn't understand your contradiction the first time I looked at it so I went back--

Hm... a thought occurs. Could we perhaps use bad abilities (like the treestump) to test possible mafia partners? Mafia can't pass to mafia of the same faction. So if suspicion arises that X and Y are mafia together, we could test the theory by passing the treestump to X and telling them to pass it to Y. If random person Z gets the treestump ability, then X and Y are mafia together (or Z is lying, which in the treestump's case, can be tested by having them vote someone). Notes: fails epically if mafia happen to have a bus driving ability.

Acutually, come to think of it, if there is an ability that affects the way abilities are passed (i.e. bus driving) it could be bad early and late on, and something like that is decently likely to be present considering how well it would fit with the mechanic.

Prophetic enough, but I have a Town read on implosion, so anyway.

tmh directly acknowledges this in his 125.

The contradiction takes on an interesting flavor when you see it in context:

In fact, why don't we vote on who it should go to tomorrow and then if it doesn't go to that person then we have a good scumlink, if it does go to that person then we have it in the hands of someone that most people don't believe is scum.

Good idea, especially when the scum kill that person and the dayvig winds up in the void.

This is actually your strategy from post #67, I just applied it to the dayvig role. It's a lot less reckless than pushing a scum to use his killing ability. Besides, this way it almost certainly ends up in town hands tomorrow. If diddin is scum as a lot of people believe then he can't pass it to a scumbuddy so it has to go to town. If diddin is town then it ends up in the hands of someone the town largely believes to be innocent.

I think at this point I should stop talking and let the man himself answer this one.
1) What were you trying to do with this?
2) Why didn't you claim your ability during any of this?

----

1) If TMH survives to D3, and assuming the day vig makes it to D3, should TMH be killed D3 (either voluntarily by holding the virus, or forced through the day vig)?

2) If TMH survives D2, should CKD pass the tree stump to TMH N2?

1) I would rather kill scum, so theoretically no. In practice, my voice will probably be overruled and I really wouldn't want to have anything to do with the Virus and dayvig anyway, so I honestly don't care.
2) The tree stump should only be passed to whoever will get daykilled D3. If you're going to kill TMH anyway, you may as well give him the stump.

-----

quadz - Absolutely. You said you had a scum read on Saint since before I posted. Yet you've acknowledged almost nothing of what I've said, even after I pretty much directly called you out for being scum multiple times. I'm led to believe you either haven't read it all, already had your mind made up about this slot with artificial tunnel vision, or both.

So pops - LMP might be scum, but I'm willing to bet much more that quadz is scum. YOU join ME.
Furcolow - RedCoyote can be next.

Unvote: RedCoyote
Vote: quadz08 (L-7)

q21 - The chance of you lynching me Today without pulling your entire scum team with you is nil. You may as well not bother.

-----

themanhimself

- There are two questions up there for you. Answer them.

[The Eruci]

@themanhimself: You should recheck the VoteCount before asking a second time (If I still have an error shame on me )
DrippingGoofball replaces Lateralus22 effective immediately.

[popsofctown]

WELCOME DRIPPINGGOOFBALL!!!!!!!

[popsofctown]

unvote, vote quadz

You owe me an internet.

[DrippingGoofball]

Who are we lynching?

[quadz08]

In most games with more than one kill at Night, the idea of two scumgroups never comes up at all. So why is this game a special occasion?

Ummmm... as far as I remember, all the large games I've been in (which isn't many: 1 full game, 1 game I replaced into and died that night, and 1 that was Zwet's Bastard Mod II which doesn't even count as a game of mafia) HAVE had speculation about multiple scumteams when there were multiple kills. And honestly, I don't see why that wouldn't be the case normally. Yes, as a general rule, it doesn't matter to the town if you kill Scumteam A or Scumteam B, but the PRESENCE of Scumteam A and Scumteam B changes the dynamics of the game significantly. Nighttime interactions change, and scum players become harder to pick out / commit different tells, as they are genuinely scumhunting as well. In short, this game isn't a special occasion in my experience, and from what I can see, should be the norm.

quadz - Absolutely. You said you had a scum read on Saint since before I posted. Yet you've acknowledged almost nothing of what I've said, even after I pretty much directly called you out for being scum multiple times. I'm led to believe you either haven't read it all, already had your mind made up about this slot with artificial tunnel vision, or both.

You've called me everything from townie to today's lynch; it all depends on where you were in your readthrough. I didn't find it necessary to comment on old news, Vi. Once you're fully caught up, show me a case, and I'll respond to that.
Also, just because I'm not consistently quoting your posts doesn't mean I'm not reading them. Unless I posted something that shows ignorance of a view/idea you had, it's pretty ridiculous to assume I didn't read what you wrote. FWIW, your posts are adding town cred to your slot, but I'm reserving real judgement until you're fully caught up.

HI DGB.

[Saint]

Who are we lynching?

quadz. Vote now.

You've called me everything from townie to today's lynch; it all depends on where you were in your readthrough. I didn't find it necessary to comment on old news, Vi. Once you're fully caught up, show me a case, and I'll respond to that.

I called you Townie for the first ten pages, and outlined in no uncertain terms what I've found wrong since. Try harder.

Unless I posted something that shows ignorance of a view/idea you had, it's pretty ridiculous to assume I didn't read what you wrote. FWIW, your posts are adding town cred to your slot, but I'm reserving real judgement until you're fully caught up.

My posts about tmh have nothing to do with me being caught up, and given that I'm saying ludicrously controversial things one would think that you would at least mention them. Again, try harder.