Open 272 - Near-Vanilla (Over!)

[farside22]

How is what you just described any different to say... Egg? Except Egg is far more guilty of it I feel with that one initial post where he just threw out 10 questions, and there isn't meta to support him like there is andrew.

I did that 2 times as town (in newbie games), so I don't really have anything against Egg (or on the other heavy lurkers) in term of alignment suspicion (of course, I hate their play like all of you, except scum of course).

Ok, so I reread andrew94's ISO (took about one minute) and the only scum-hunting I've seen is saying Nachomamma8 used a wall of text in his last game as scum. Nothing else worth mentioning except that strange bussing comment (I've always seen drawing unconditional scum relations day 1 as highly presomptuous and I never do it, but I've never noticed a link between this behavior and alignment). This guy is a lurker just as I remembered, and I have no reading of him.

And here comes the old debate, should town lynch lurkers? They're detrimential to town (if all players lurked, mafia would be a game of dice, and scum would always win), and therefore I hate their guts, so i'd say yes. I doubt it's really rational, though. Lynching a lurker gives no info to town, and let scum lead the game.

The problem with some games if lots of people lurk and are town they hurt the town. Look at my invitational in regards to this. The mafia keeps the lurkers around because they see them as helpful to their win condition (I sure know I did that as scum as well).
I still find nacho scummy and I find it odd that andrew notes nacho's play but doesn't vote for him.
It's a connection I'm willing to explore.

[andrew94]

Actually I could get on board with what looker pointed out. I reread Andrew how has contributed nothing but fluff and floating by saying nothing of scum hunting. His vote has been on Ant with a few questions that were pointless. I looked at his other games to see how he plays. Looking he plays like this no matter his alignment. However I saw He did push more on those he found scummy.
Show here http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 69&start=0
Looking at the scum game here He's a hard one to read alright.
In fact looking at both games neither fit how he is acting here. So I'm going to get away from the meta on this because it tells me nothing.
This case is based on game play here and it's exactly nothing. Pointless questions, floating by with little said and non contribution of scum hunting.

unvote:
vote: andrew

1) if the meta tells you nothing, why did you point it out
2) the 'hard one to read' game was because gandalf was making ridiculous cases on me
3) non contribution of scum hunting? i find antb scummy and pointed out nachp's walls but antb just got ignored (now has 1 vote)

looker replaced in and just came guning for me

[Nachomamma8]

V/LA lasting longer than expected, but I will make a post in here tomorrow.

[farside22]

@Andrew: I wouldn't say looking at some of the vote counts (this being one at point) that AntB was ignored. Sure he has one vote count now but that happens where people find many different people scum. I personally don't see AntB scum and explain it at one point.

Official Day 1 Vote Tally

13 players remain; 7 votes needed for a lynch.

Nachomamma8 (4)

- farside22, brokenscraps, AntB, drmyshottyizsik

AntB (4)

- andrew94, lord_hur, Nachomamma8, Archer

drmyshottyizsik (1)

- smashbro_of_the_SSS

Yet to vote (4): JesseSheffield, MidnightHike, Egg, Looker
================================================================

Second Prod:

MidnightHike

As for why point out your meta. I did the research I need to keep it somewhere as a reminder and the game for me is a place I keep my reminders on players in the game.

[andrew94]

what does that vote count show...

[Archer]

V/LA until Wednesday 24th

. Deadline at work got moved forward

[inHimshallibe]

Bella replaces drmyshottyizsik. Thanks!

I will get a vote count up in the morning.

[AntB]

i find antb scummy

Because of a "crap vote to jump on a wagon"... Yours isn't exactly good, and your maintaining it.

Who else is scummy and why?

[farside22]

what does that vote count show...

What did the pressure on antb tell you if anything and why?

[Bella]

OHHAIGUISE!

First things first, I'm going to

unvote

until I've managed to read through the game.

[DavidParker]

I'd like to propose a policy lynch of Bella.

[inHimshallibe]

Official Day 1 Vote Tally

13 players remain; 7 votes needed for a lynch.

Nachomamma8 (3)

- brokenscraps, AntB, lord_hur

Egg (2)

- DavidParker, smashbro_of_the_SSS

AntB (1)

- andrew94

Archer (1)

- Nachomamma8

smashbro_of_the_SSS (1)

- Looker

andrew94 (1)

- farside22

Yet to vote (4): JesseSheffield, Egg, Archer, Bella
=========================================================

Prodding

: JesseSheffield

Deadline

: Monday, January 31, 11:59 PM CT. (GMT-6)

[lord_hur]

I'd like to propose a policy lynch of Bella.

Seconded. Sometimes, winning the game must be preceded by considerations of a higher nature.

[lord_hur]

Also, since she didn't introduce herself, she was known as DizzyIzzyB13 before, and is very far from being a newbie (just so we don't waste time with false assumptions).

[DavidParker]

And? I still want a policy lynch.

[lord_hur]

And? I still want a policy lynch.

I was adding to her case. She's doubly guilty for having a perfectly decent identity before and still changing it, for trying to conceal this fact, and for not even having very young age as an excuse.

FOS for interpreting my post otherwise.

[smashbro_of_the_SSS]

ok, really guys? How does it matter about making a new account as to whether or not someone is scum in this game? What exactly is this policy lynch for? I mean, I like the reasons given for why shotty was scummy, but those weren't mentioned at all.

[DavidParker]

[Bella]

Oh, awesome, there's some juicy content right off the bat!

I'd like to propose a policy lynch of Bella.

a) What policy?

b) How does this policy produce a pro-town outcome?

I'd like to propose a policy lynch of Bella.

Seconded. Sometimes, winning the game must be preceded by considerations of a higher nature.

It may not be a rule in this particular game, but I find deliberately playing against your win condition to be generally frowned upon on the site on account of the fact that it ruins games.

Also, since she didn't introduce herself, she was known as DizzyIzzyB13 before, and is very far from being a newbie (just so we don't waste time with false assumptions).

True, but entirely irrelevent since the mod knows who I am.

And? I still want a policy lynch.

I was adding to her case. She's doubly guilty for having a perfectly decent identity before and still changing it, for trying to conceal this fact, and for not even having very young age as an excuse.

FOS for interpreting my post otherwise.

Well, that's a post choc-full of nonsense. Please demonstrate that any attempt was made to conceal my prior identity. Perhaps it was this post in the Mini Theme Queue, where I was so deliberately obfuscatory* as to my prior identity? Perhaps it was the numerous posts acknowledging it made around the Discussion areas of the site? Perhaps it was the contact information that - shock, horror - use the exact same accounts I've been publically using for ages? No, sir, this is most definitely a case in which I've tried to conceal my identity, by publically announcing (well, in Scumchat, anyway) that I was dropping my old name for something a little less childish, publically acknowledging the new identity all over the site and making zero effort to hide who I am by sharing contact information.

I am very interested to hear the other ways in which you intend to deliberately pursue activities counter to the objectives of the town which are a) lynching scum and b) see a.

*This is sarcasm, in case you didn't get it.

[Bella]

@farside22: can you link me some recent games of you playing as town?

I found scum has a hard time finding scum because they are scum and don't' want to rat out their scum partners. As town I know I'm suspicious of more people then not.

I really like this. I'll use it in future games.

I am intrigued by this because I find the opposite to be true. As scum, your information level is much greater - you know who is or isn't scum and thus you never have to consider the possibility that you are wrong. As town, this is clearly not true - someone who is genuinely scum-hunting will always have a voice in the back of their head that they may be picking up on the wrong trail or misinterpreting someone's behaviour. This fact leads to greater equivocation, especially when it comes to making a suspect list at an early stage of the game.

[andrew94]

bella, you know who you replaced right?

[Bella]

Yes, and lynching him for being lurky and generally unhelpful is pointless because that's what he does regardless of alignment.

[AntB]

I am intrigued by this because I find the opposite to be true. As scum, your information level is much greater - you know who is or isn't scum and thus you never have to consider the possibility that you are wrong. As town, this is clearly not true - someone who is genuinely scum-hunting will always have a voice in the back of their head that they may be picking up on the wrong trail or misinterpreting someone's behaviour. This fact leads to greater equivocation, especially when it comes to making a suspect list at an early stage of the game.

But then we have obviscum. So, scum obviously aren't going to go firing both barrels, are they?

@Andrew
Strike 1.

[...] Who else is scummy and why?

[farside22]

@farside22: can you link me some recent games of you playing as town?

I found scum has a hard time finding scum because they are scum and don't' want to rat out their scum partners. As town I know I'm suspicious of more people then not.

I really like this. I'll use it in future games.

I am intrigued by this because I find the opposite to be true. As scum, your information level is much greater - you know who is or isn't scum and thus you never have to consider the possibility that you are wrong. As town, this is clearly not true - someone who is genuinely scum-hunting will always have a voice in the back of their head that they may be picking up on the wrong trail or misinterpreting someone's behaviour. This fact leads to greater equivocation, especially when it comes to making a suspect list at an early stage of the game.

Whenever I was scum I tried hard not to buss my scum partner day 1 (as it's always harder to recover for me with only 2 scum left). Trying to look for something scummy from town is harder because I can see the dense people that are considered the easy lynch and looking at those you know to be town that act town you can't point to as scum because what reason do you really have.
I know I fumble as scum looking and I have seen it from others in other games fumble.
As town I'm suspicious of almost everyone unless there is a town feel or something strikes me as town. I go more on gut and I don't know or see many people who fake that very easily.

[farside22]

Sorry for the double post.
I will try hard not to judge the dizzyizzy account. What I want from Bella is a scum list once she is done with her read and why she finds those scummy.