Mini 1108 - Mutiny on the High Seas - Game Over

[bristep123]

Ugh, Chesskid you are allowed to be wrong. Stop trying to derail anything you don't agree with. If your posts were more constructive then people might actually listen to you.

Nero, just because I didn't quote your post, stop at every question and answer it directly doesn't mean I didn't address your post and the questions within. Lets go back to it and pick out everything with a question mark

Wraith accused me of bussin' IS and he was wrong, why is he not scummy?

Because he's confirmed town, and I thought he was town before this. You I thought were acting scummy, and had a lot of good points raised by others against you, then were wrong. You are focusing on one thing and trying to say that it's the entire lynchpin of my reasons for voting for you.

Fair enuff but my point is townwraith was wrong so why does Nero have to be scum to be wrong?

Yes, yes I was but you're saying this in hindsight but I must ask you why is being wrong a scum tell?

How do you know that all of your reads [from yesterday] are correct and if those are correct [as you assume] why is it important that you lynch me?

And I'm fairly certain several others thought IS, Jedo, Wraith was scummy. Yet why only go after me?

4 sentences, essentially one question. I said that this is not the only reason I'm voting for you, it's just the only one I didn't think had been mentioned yet. So I did answer these....

But I can already tell you that your wrong about me, if being wrong is a scumtell does this make you scummy?

Should town lynch you after my town flip?

No, because I'm town. But then that's really the only answer I can give to that. If you do flip town then yes, I expect to be questioned, suspected and generally hounded during the next phase. But I don't think you will, I think you will flip scum so that's why I'm sticking my neck out and making my case for your lynch.

If IS flips town, we need to scrutinise every single person who pushed on him, and take a good look at who didn't.

And what did you conclude? Oh thats right you didn't do this.

Actually I did, I read every ISO during the phase break, and I concluded that you and smargaret are who I think are scum.

Ok, that's EVERY SINGLE question you asked me answered

*disclaimer* Nero's original post has been cut and only the questions have been included. That was not the original structure of his post. Don't want anyone screaming misrep.

*also* I'm going to work, so won't be replying to anything that comes back on this for a good 8 or 9 hours. I'll keep up on my phone though.

[AurorusVox]

Umbrage and Doom are bussing their buddy? Possibly.
Umbrage is bussing his buddy, Doom is innocent? Potentially.
Umbrage is trying to get NC mislynched? Probably.

Nero's lynch is looking the same as IS's - he's aggressive and people aren't reacting favourably to it. He's definitely lashing out (flailing, perhaps?) but with obvScum Umbrage hopping on his wagon I'm not too sure he's scum. Of course, if he is Umbrage's buddy this is exactly what he'd want me to think. I'll have to read his ISO to see.

Doom's response to my voting pattern accusations have actually been pretty satisfying. Maybe he's just been anti-town (fmpov) rather than scummy. The problem is that they mesh so well...suffice it to say that he's definitely lower on my preferred lynch chain than Umbrage now, but we'll see as the day progresses.

What I don't really like is the lynch preference order - two of the people I suspect of being his buddies are scummy enough to be included (and thus distanced) but not scummy enough to get voted and lynched by him at the moment. The saving grace is his case against Nero and placing him at #1 which doesn't feel like fake distancing, but actual scumhunting. I don't think Doom and NC are scumbuddies together. If NC flipped scum, I'd still find Umbrage scummy; but atm, not Doom.

Actually Doom, another question: Is Chess high on that list because of the weak-doc death or separate from that?

Wraith, you recently unvoted Nero. What was it that you saw that made you unvote?

[Umbrage]

@ NC:

I'm liking your reading fail. My post on "waiting for IS to hammer" was 666.

My "IIT IS is scum" was 709.

Pretty sure there were 40 odd posts between them. So why lie?

They were right next to each other in the ISO. I suppose should've specified that.

Why do I have to have 20,000 reasons? 1 is plenty enuff to suspect somebody. Yes I do think that avoiding a bandwagon is suspucios but I guess its more of a newb scum tactic.

Defensive much? I don't recall saying that only having 1 reason is scummy. I'm simply putting it out there, it's up to the other players to make up their minds about it.

Though your ISO 107 reads incredibly boastful. I really don't like your "HAHA I haven't been lynched!!!" and you even call yourself very pro-town. What the hell?!? That's for us to judge not you.

I'm one of the most active players in the game, and one of the few who hasn't been tunneling on one or two players the whole game.

And you really don't make alot of sense...you think/thought AV was scum 'cause "[He] has been doing the exact same thing as IS" but for some reason you thought IS was town?
A=B;B=A
AV=IS
AV=scum
IS=/=scum
WTF!!!

I never said that meant AV is scum. Read again.

Do you not understand how this makes you look? Since my reason for suspecting you was that you didn't put IS @ L-1 voluntarily you doing so when TOLD seems like an attempt to quell suspicion on you. Why do you care so much about weather or not we find you suspicious?

I asked you if you wanted me to vote IS. You said yes. Now you're trying to go all "HAHA ITS A SCUM TRAP LULZ"?

I fully admit that it is easier for me to see said misrep when its against me. Though at no time did I ever say "Oh I only thought they were scum b/c they misread me." but the reason I see misreading as a scum tell is...well...I see no pro-town motivation in it. But obviously IS was just ESL or somewhat illiterate. In fact I find it quite scummy when one's words are twisted to serve the purpose of painting.

True, misrep is scummy. But you're calling people who you feel have misrepresented only yourself. And almost all your reads are based on misrep.

Any pro-town/good player should change reads when new information becomes available. I'm pretty sure that the majority of the game, sans Wraith and Chess (go figure), have changed reads/votes. This includes you. You really don't see the hypocrisy here?

Except there's usually some new information, like a flip, that makes us change reads. You don't give solid reasoning for altering your reads.

An SK would be confirmed with a 2nd kill tonight. Its fairly weak to say "Well, for it to fit..."

Do you think Jedo could have possibly been an attempt to frame me?

I said "yet". Tomorrow night we'll know. Until then, we don't. Simple.

And of course Jedo could've framed you, but that could just be you using WIFOM. I don't know. That's my point.

[Shadow1psc]

I'm here, kettle.

@Bristep - I'm really not sure tbh. Misguided attacks on my presence during weekends, and the way I played catch-up (game started on a friday, and CK+Umbrage exploded pages by Monday). I attacked CK for being a VI/suggested policy lynch, and it was tunneltunneltunnel from there.

[Shadow1psc]

Kettle comment was @ Nero, sorry just woke up and didn't see another page.

[Umbrage]

@ Shadow: Do you think CK3 is scum?

If NC is scum, that means CK3 is town. They really don't look like they were distancing yesterday. NC wanted a hammer on CK3, I can't see scum doing that on the first day.

[Shadow1psc]

I don't think it mattered who hammered what, it's not like we're going over IS' lynch with a fine toothed comb. A CK lynch would have gained even less attention imo. Do I think he's scum? I think I addressed this, and I'm currently of the belief that he is not. What prompted the change? I'm not sure. Somewhere between my own impending lynch and the rest of D1, even with IS' flip, CK just doesn't strike me as scummy.

[Wraith]

@AV: I'd noticed that I'd had a severe case of confirmation bias and unvoted to give my suspects a chance. AV, I'd like to hear the case on doombunny.

[AurorusVox]

The case on Doombunny is the voting pattern analysis that I've posted a number of times now. Since I know you're town I'll say it one more time:

His voting pattern mirrors what I believe the optimum scum manoeuvres would be. He voted Shadow til he claimed VT, then shifted to Chess until he claimed. Probably after he saw he couldn't get the PR lynched, he moved to another wagon. The movement on votes coinciding with claims taken objectively like that looks scummy because it looked like he was voting people to out their roles and then shifting tracks when that had been achieved.

If there's a Shadow-Doom link, he unvoted his buddy (along with Umbrage) at a crucial moment. Also he finally settled on IS, a vocal opponent of Shadow.

[Umbrage]

OK, I've been thinking, and here are the scum as I see it:

NC/AV

CK3/Shadow

If someone from the first group is scum, it means the second group is town and vice versa. As for a third member, that leaves doombunny, bristep, and smargaret. These players could be partnered with either team.

HOWEVER:

We still don't know if there's an SK. So we could have the first group as scum, and someone from the second as the SK.

WHAT DOES THIS MEAN?

I have no clue.

[Shadow1psc]

I really doubt there's an SK, there's no reason to discuss it either until we see more night actions.

[AurorusVox]

Umbrage can you explain the reasoning behind the mutually exclusive pairings?

Also I like the quote in your sig

[Wraith]

While I'm still on the fence about the "he shifts around his votes after claims trying to find PRs" thing, I can buy the Umbrage-Shadow-Doom scumteam theory. But still, I'd rather put pressure on one of the people I have a stronger feeling about.

Vote: Shadow

[Umbrage]

@ AV: I've said for a long time that I felt Shadow and CK3 were scum together, this is based on their long argument D1, which I read as distancing, as well as how quickly they've forgotten that debate. Now they call each other town. However, my ISO of Nero Cain made me almost certain that he is not scum with CK3. NC appeared far too willing for CK3 to swing yesterday, and I doubt scum would try something that risky D1. I link him with you mainly because of your #1001. You expressed a little suspicion of him, but keep saying he's townish. Also, you both started the day off with some hard tunneling on me.

If I had to name the entire scum team right now, I would say NC, AV, and DB. They're all connected, at least in my mind. But I'm not ruling out Shadow/chesskid3 as a possibility. They both narrowly evaded a lynch yesterday. As said before, I will become more sure of the scum once one of these players is lynched.

[AurorusVox]

Aaah. I understand, sorry, I thought you were saying if I was scum NC was town and if Chess was scum Shadow was town and vice versa.

Umbrage, you've unequivocally stated that you won't vote Doom today. Why is this, if you think he's scum?
I'm not demanding you vote him or saying you'd be scum for not doing it in black and white terms, but I do think it's

scummy

that you're calling him scum but you're not

willing

to vote him.

[Umbrage]

a) I never said I wouldn't vote him, I said I don't want to vote for him simply because you want me to do so.

b) Most of my suspicion on Doom is due to that I think you're distancing him. So it's silly to vote him instead of you.

[PranaDevil]

Vote Count:

doombunny9 (2) - chesskid3, Nero Cain
Nero Cain (3) - doombunny9, bristep123, Umbrage
chesskid3 (1) - smargaret
Umbrage (2) - AurorusVox, Shadow1psc
Shadow1psc (1) - Wraith

Not Voting:

With 9 alive it takes 5 to make someone walk the plank!

Day phase will end at

9pm GMT on Sunday February 6th

[Nero Cain]

They were right next to each other in the ISO. I suppose should've specified that.

I fail to see how having back to back quotes in ISO is scummy.

I'm one of the most active players in the game, and one of the few who hasn't been tunneling on one or two players the whole game.

This is more than laughable. Just b/c a player is active doesn't make them pro-town + not scummy. Same with tunneling. Tunneling as a scum tell WTF!!! If you believed this then why were so hesitant to join the IS wagon. He was tunneling on Shadow like crazy.

I never said that meant AV is scum. Read again.

Honestly, I think AV is more likely to be scum than IS.

but then.....

I'm not saying AV is scum, just that if you think IS scummy, you have to think AV scummy.

Is it a chain or wooden fence?

I asked you if you wanted me to vote IS. You said yes. Now you're trying to go all "HAHA ITS A SCUM TRAP LULZ"?

You SHOULD have voted on your own. You just got done telling me that tunneling is a scum tell so how was he NOT tunelling on Shadow? Hypocrissy thy name is Umbrage.

True, misrep is scummy. But you're calling people who you feel have misrepresented only yourself. And almost all your reads are based on misrep.

No they aren't. I mean obviously thats how you, Doom and Bris are trying to paint me but...my original read on Wraith + IS was....

Wraith: Hai guys I've gotten up to page 16.
Nero:Yeah I need to catch up.
IS: Wraith has read the WHOLE thread so why can't you, Nero
Wraith: I've now read the whole thread.
Nero:So how does IS know wraith was done reading before b4 he announced it in the thread?
Jedo:ZOMG!!! Thats not a scum tell.

After that IS continued to misrep me. So logically it looked like those three were good potential suspects.

Except there's usually some new information, like a flip, that makes us change reads. You don't give solid reasoning for altering your reads.

I'm 100% sure that both IS and Jedo flipped town and Wraith is unfortunately "confirmed".

Bris' case on me is weak.
Doom is chainsawing you.
And you're just a hypocrite.

I said "yet". Tomorrow night we'll know. Until then, we don't. Simple.

Your logic can't be this bad.

"I don't think scum would kill a person they've thought was scum. Therefore I think the SK killed him."

"But we won't be ab;e to confirm th SK until tonight."

"Doesn't really matter, I'm going to

pretend

there's an SK so I can make the case fit."

And of course Jedo

I assume this is a typo

could've framed you, but that could just be you using WIFOM. I don't know. That's my point.

So...Nero killing or not killing Jedo last night is WIFOM and deserves a vote.

Bristep potentially framing Nero is WIFOM and DOESN'T derserve a vote.

[Nero Cain]

a) I never said I wouldn't vote him, I said I don't want to vote for him simply because you want me to do so.

b) Most of my suspicion on Doom is due to that I think you're distancing him. So it's silly to vote him instead of you.

Translation, I call people scummy all the time but I never like to take a hard stance.

[Doombunny9]

GET CHESSKID LOOK HOW BAD HE ISSSSSSSSSSSS

DONT GET ME GET HIMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM

HE'S SCUMMY TOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

This is a defense? My reasoning must be bad because You're

clearly

not scum! I never would have guessed! [/sarcasm]

Serious time: Post content or don't post at all. It's that simple.

Actually Doom, another question: Is Chess high on that list because of the weak-doc death or separate from that?

As stated before, I'm unwilling to assume that snake was on chess just because he claimed not a VT. Why I think chess is scum is basically just everything carried over from yesterday.

Nero still hasn't answered my question about why he hasn't mentioned that he thinks Umbrage and bri are scum until today...And he's still using his favorite buzzword to try and make his cases sound better.

[chesskid3]

lol @ whoever said "don't try to derail things you don't agree with" about me trying to refer to DERAILING a wagon on town
I swear to god if I had a dayvig right now i'd probably shoot wraith
You know why?
All he's been voting today is town, so he MIGHT AS WELL BE SCUM JESUS

[Nero Cain]

lol @ whoever said "don't try to derail things you don't agree with" about me trying to refer to DERAILING a wagon on town

That was scumstep. How do you feel about lynching him today?

Mod: Can you confirm you sent a pm to Vox las night?

[chesskid3]

No that was not a scumstep goddamnit
that was me saying I don't fricking care if you're town stop voting with the goddamn scum.

and no he obviously can't confirm that what the hell?

[Nero Cain]

No that was not a scumstep goddamnit
that was me saying I don't fricking care if you're town stop voting with the goddamn scum.

and no he obviously can't confirm that what the hell?

No you asked who said it, I was telling you it was scum BrisStep.

I doubt Prana will (tough its a yes or no question) but I though I'd still ask b/c Prana had to send Vox the pm and it Prana didn't then Wraith is lying.

[chesskid3]

Friendly Neighbor is different from innocent child, hence he can't confirm/deny that.

Meh
Bristep is losing his/her townread quickly, but I have higher suspects :/