Mini 1,115: Ozy and Millie Mafia (Game over!)

[Empking]

Vote: Pack

- Joking this early or RQS or OMGUS

[Empking]

I know nothing of Ozy and Millie.

[Empking]

*squeeee* it started!

This is seriously one of my favorite comics of all time, I actually own the books. Dibs on flavor expert, challenge any of ya to know more about this theme then I do.

That said im not going to answer any of the other RQS questions since they are entirely irrelevant to the game and just serve as something that can make noise.

@Pack - Why ask questions 2/3?

Vote wearwolf

because wagon. Whats with all the pokemon avatars suddenly too? This some new in thing?

The cool, awesome and brilliant individuals (AKA myself) were put in a Pokedex on Hamsterdam where based on similarities with the pokemon and other players were connected to a pokemon. Those in the Pokedex changed their avatars. Some (I have to say I'm thinking they're suffering from mental illness to sheep so hard) other individuals also changed their's. And that is the story of the pokemon avatars.

[Empking]

*squeeee* it started!

This is seriously one of my favorite comics of all time, I actually own the books. Dibs on flavor expert, challenge any of ya to know more about this theme then I do.

That said im not going to answer any of the other RQS questions since they are entirely irrelevant to the game and just serve as something that can make noise.

@Pack - Why ask questions 2/3?

Vote wearwolf

because wagon. Whats with all the pokemon avatars suddenly too? This some new in thing?

The cool, awesome and brilliant individuals (AKA myself) were put in a Pokedex on Hamsterdam where based on similarities with the pokemon and other players were connected to a pokemon. Those in the Pokedex changed their avatars. Some (I have to say I'm thinking they're suffering from mental illness to sheep so hard) other individuals also changed their's. And that is the story of the pokemon avatars.

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 10&t=16149
I completely agree

Vote; Werewolf

- Are you claiming that you changed your avatar due that game? Why?

[Empking]

Empking: Did you switch your RVS vote for pressure purposes or just for the sake of extending RVS? The post looks like the latter though the vote does the former, so...

Its not trying to extend the RVS, I honestly dislike his posts.

[Empking]

Its not trying to extend the RVS, I honestly dislike his posts.

Anything you care to elaborate on that you dislike?

I don't feel like he being honest. I fell like he's being cocky.

[Empking]

Claim or die! Claim or die! Claim or die! Claim or die! Claim or die! Claim or die!

[Empking]

Vote: No Lynch

- Let's play follow the cop.

[Empking]

What?

I voted werewolf not chess. What the fuck happened?

Seriously, you see that and you're first thought isn't to check the username but to go "What?"?

[Empking]

Has the automatic preview stopped working? I didn't see that question.

No Lynch is needed in order to play follow the cop properly.

[Empking]

V/LA this Saturday

[Empking]

No Lynch is needed in order to play follow the cop properly.

Presumably so as to provide no chance for scum to manipulate the investigative choice of the cop?

No. In order to keep the doc from being outted.

Trust me.

[Empking]

Am I right in thinking the argument against me is that I

1. Forced a claim out of werewolf. (Which isn't true.)
2. Voted No Lynch. (Theory differences.)

vote: WW

- Claim and then going after the person to ask for a claim. Plus I think (I've yet to check this out) but if I recall correctly SC is of worst nightmare fame. Would there be a Cop in a game. Werewolf's utter change of heart strikes me as scum who was given a falseclaim.

[Empking]

SWNII had two cops and a backup cop.
Granted, one cop was a specific faction's cop, the other was a random cop, and the backup was for the random cop, but still... mod meta is a pretty lame excuse btw.
I wouldn't doubt for a second that all the scum have mod-provided fakeclaims, but that doesn't mean we should stop a lynch or push a lynch simply because of a claim.

An overeager claim that contradicts his later play is a reason to push a lynch.

[Empking]

I see no reason to lynch a claimed cop TODAY. I do see all the reason in the world to lynch you, however.

Why?

[Empking]

I mean no lynch.

"I don't like Emp's No Lynch because its a masterful scum ploy" or "I don't like Emp's No lynch because from a theory point of view it does not coincide with the view that is held by myself."?

[Empking]

Because it doesn't make sense.

So the second?

[Empking]

So the reasons are 1. Something that didn't happen 2. Something that isn't a scum tell. Really? I presumed I was strawmanning your arguments at least slightly.

I hold the vierw that if we do not lynch Werewolf today then Werewolf will not get lynched. I call this "remember Sensfan's Harry Potter W

[Empking]

"remember Sensfan's Harry Potter Where Every Body Thought RC Was Scum But He Wasn't Lynched Because Everyone Was Too Timid To Attack The Player Who Was Cemented As Town Due To His Role Claim"

[Empking]

No, I don't remember that game, since I didn't play in it,

Nor did I but Werewolf still needs to be today's lynch.

[Empking]

and one game is not exemplary of an overall site meta in the slightest.

Can you give a counter-example as my experience on thisd game is that people are awfully hesitant to go from town to scum on a player.

[Empking]

...and I have no clue what you're asking there, can you rephrase that?

Can you give a counter-example where people went from buying a claim to disbelieving it purely on the backs of scumhunting (rather than new role information) and on a different day?

[Empking]

@ Empking

"I don't like Emp's No Lynch because its a masterful scum ploy" or "I don't like Emp's No lynch because from a theory point of view it does not coincide with the view that is held by myself."?

Voting no lynch gives more advantage to scum. So, yes, it looks like an attempt at a scum ploy.

Posing the question this way is scummy because all answers of option one naturally evolve from option two, which by being falsely contrasted with option one is not scummy.

If you were not attempting to force the claim from werewolf55, what was the point of your "Claim or die!" post?

To illustrate my desire for Werewolf to claim. You have to remember that I couldn't be "attempting to force the claim from werewolf55" for no more complicated a reason than its physically impossible for me to do so (short of WW being really gullible and my claiming a Dayvig).

Edit: OK can anybody say that sort of allegations and aspertions isn't scummy. (and "clever"? LAL anyone?)

[Empking]

1. Gut
2. His attitude and cockiness implied his having more information than most players.

[Empking]

1. Gut
2. His attitude and cockiness implied his having more information than most players.

You wanted a claim based on gut?

I wanted a claim to fight against stalling.

Also both your second points are indicative of newbie town PRs, I remember having to get someone off the block for acting like that in the last PYP

WW isn't a newbie.

[Empking]

In what situation?

[Empking]

Vote Z then.

[Empking]

I'll throw down the L-1 vote considering Parama provides pretty unambigious evidence.

Unvote

Vote: LMP

[Empking]

@Anti: remind me again why bristep is scum? He's an incredibly solid null, and leaning town with that last post.

random vote after the RVS ends = scummy

Obligitary, the RVS does not end for everyone at the same time.

[Empking]

I don't think Pack is voting Werewolf

[Empking]

178: Pure truth.

[Empking]

Guys: Werewolf has put us in a hostage situation: if he's a lying piece of scum, he's betting on our love of keeping the cop alive as a WIFOM to prevent a lynch, if he's not a lying piece of scum; he's created a situation whereupon we will continue to examine the gamestate that he's created as in 'why hasn't scum killed him yet? Maybe he's scum.' I believe, by claiming Cop on Day 1 with little onus and little benefit for town, he wants to create town cred that his poor play can't heep up with. If he acutally is the Cop, he's just drawn down any scummy roleblockers onto himself. Yes, this is a PoE vote, but I don't think it's a bad one.

Vote: Werewolf

^scum

Seriously, this is it? After all that (the LMP wagon, Empking's play...) this is the only thing you have to talk about + a vote on a claimed cop.

You fail.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Ghostlin

You removed a vote on someone you thought was scum just to say 'you suck?'

Yes, Empking's play blows utter goats. So does werewolf's, and Empking's play is almost blatant buddying. "Let's follow the cop." And then you expect werewolf to be utter town after his awful play that got him to L-1 in the first place because now he can manufacture town cred by claiming cop. Fact is, that sounds incredibly scummy and I think it's entirely possible, considering Empking's play and reversal; that he could possibly be partnered to werewolf scum.

So really, your idea of a vote is to tell me I suck, not bothering to explain the reasons why and removing your vote from who you believed three seconds ago was scum. Explain to me how this is better or worse than my analysis of the werewolf claim.

NOW.

Well, I did explain the reason why. You're commentary was restricted to the cop claim, and other stuff happened, but now that I got your attitude on Empking out of you, I'm a little more satisfied. What's your take on the LMP wagon?

The only thing that gives me pause with LMP is that usually scum fakeclaims are of minor characters and Llewellyn isn't one of those. I guess SC could have purposefully not put in Llewellyn or made him a "bad guy," but still...

Or SC might hasve followed the Xyl method of picking randomly out of characters in the game and safeclaims.

[Empking]

So, the LMP wagon: there's a lot of WIFOM in your defense, LMP. Things like 'If I wanted to end debate... I've done it before.' Not everyone reads meta over their morning cup of coffee, nor should we, quite frankly. He's over defensive and isn't contributing much to town. However, at least 2 of the 5 posts that were made in his only case post I happen to agree with (I am playing with vezo in another game, and he's a headache to actually listen to. Once you think he MIGHT acutally act town for three seconds, he says something completely scummy, and I think you'd be a fool to just accept WW's claim at face value since this could be an obvious ploy for scum, particularly since Empking forced it and then did a 180 on it). I actually don't think he's the most scummy player in the game: I think the cop and his magical buddy are scummier in actual play, however it is Day 1 and I think he makes a solid third choice for scum and not someone I wouldn't mind seeing lynch, although I'd like a more unique opinion than general parrotting of Parama's.

Empking did not force a claim. The fact that LMP hasn't been lynched is suspicious, In thought that heavily when the WW got up but of course that didn't go very far.

[Empking]

vezok:

Just to clarify, you're argument is that I posted a valid case against you and your scummy play, to which you offered no defense other than some bluster, then when I wouldn't let

that

scumminess slide, you arrived at your most daring move of voting me in a way that only leaves a small bit of room for you to slough off any residual responsibility for your mistake.

I'm interested in any part of that which you consider wrong.

[Empking]

I Would Vote You But I Don't Want To Leave LMP: vezok

[Empking]

Am I sheeping Werewolf or are my opinions toward Werewolf an example of sheeping?

[Empking]

Am I sheeping Werewolf or are my opinions toward Werewolf an example of sheeping?

You were sheeping him hard eariler. I think you even said, 'let's follow the Cop.'

You're taking that quote completely out of context.

FoS: Ghostlin

[Empking]

I'll throw down the L-1 vote considering Parama provides pretty unambigious evidence.

Unvote

Vote: LMP

That is sheeping as well. Are you going to cite it for being out of context? Or are you going to develop an opinion that's yours?

Is that "yes I did take that quote out of context"?

(Its important to remember that good townies are willing to "sheep" when somebody makes a good case.)

[Empking]

That was my wagon when I claimed. Of the whole wagon, I'd order that wagon from town to scum:

LlamaFluff
Antihero
Parama
vezokpiraka

Empking

Packbat

TOWN
LlamaFluff
DLG
Fishythefish
Jerbs

Empking

Antihero
Zyrconium
werewolf555
vezokpiraka
Parama
Packbat
Ghostlin
SCUM

[Empking]

vezokpiraka is unequivocally certain about only one thing. He will be around on Day 2. Only scum can be

this

certain.

I have to honest here, I think you're reaching with that argument.

[Empking]

Good bye, LMP. You are not the lynch today apparently.

Unvote

Vote: Vezok

[Empking]

Empking's asking ww to claim early on is very scummy. Not got much of a read since then.
.

At least its one up from the cries of forcing a claim. Why is it scummy though?

[Empking]

@All: I've still not seen anyone comment on the fact that Empking went from thinking werewolf was scum, to utterly believing he was cop, back to thinking he was scum in like 20 posts....

Don't act so weak. Why would people ciomment on such a natural evolution of an individual's views?

[Empking]

Empking's asking ww to claim early on is very scummy. Not got much of a read since then.
.

At least its one up from the cries of forcing a claim. Why is it scummy though?

Claims are bad for the town unless you want the lynch of the player otherwise. I think you know that, and I also think it's implausible you had a firm enough suspicion of werewolf to warrant his lynch at that stage.

That's all true. But why is asking ww to claim early scummy?

[Empking]

Because doing things that are bad for the town, and that you know are bad for the town, is scummy.

How is asking ww to claim bad for the town.

(Note that I'm aware how pre-mature claims asre bad for the town but I didn't do that.)

[Empking]

And note the utter lack of people calling Werewolf scum. Just as I predicted.

I'll put my vote on Zyrc for now but if Werewolf doesn't come up with a result I'll be pushing the lynch on him.

Vote: Zyrc

[Empking]

Unvote

Vote: werewolf

He's scum.

[Empking]

BNo,. I voted Werewolf because he's scum. I've been calling him scum all game apart from like a day.
(Honestly that RB comment was to try and trick him into claiming a result. Amusingly he saw through it and his arrogance for so so reeked through his posts.)

There is absolutely no good reason for thinking we have a cop in this game. Emphasis on "Good".

And Llama I feel you're deliberately ignoring my posts in order to lynch me. I said (yesterday) "werewolf had a mod-=provided safe claim" then you say "The flavor matches up with a cop." as if it means something.

[Empking]

There is absolutely no good reason for thinking we have a cop in this game. Emphasis on "Good".

There is good reason, such as the miller flip.

Not good.

And Llama I feel you're deliberately ignoring my posts in order to lynch me. I said (yesterday) "werewolf had a mod-=provided safe claim" then you say "The flavor matches up with a cop." as if it means something.

You are trying to lynch a cop claim that fits flavor, fits known flips, and has the "RB" already on top of them. Thats scummy. I would rather lynch anyone in the game over wolf right now.[/quote]

All those facts when added to the fact that werewolf is playing very scummy and very much like a scum pretending to be a cop adds up to one thing. Not werewolf being a cop but SC giving him a nice safeclaim.

[Empking]

I do not like the non-Parama members of the Jerb wagon and with this leisurely pace I don't see why scum would bus.

[Empking]

27 hours Emp, start to the last vote on the Jerbs wagon(4 votes), sure that's leisurely?

The pace of the game is certainly leisurely in general and even the Jerb's wagon felt leisurely.

[Empking]

Unvote

Vote; Ghostlin

I didn't like his posts before but asking permission to put him at L-1 is the last straw.

[Empking]

Ghost is not town.