Blackest Night Mafia (GAME OVER!)

[Andrius]

@ MoI: Yeah, I forgot the Reds. But lynching #4 is just as good as Orange.
And since we agree that KageLord is either Hal Jordan or Siniestro, he's not the play today. (Though Hal Jordan would be a great FC for any scumbag.)

And on a related note to the Blue/Green survival thing, while our Blue wincon doesn't require Green, my role PM does mention Hal Jordan in relation to my character.

As a side note, is anyone against AGM claiming whether or not he has active abilities? Because he is the only surviving Violet.

AGM, please do so. Hell, claim Operative or not. And if you aren't, please inform us if you have active or passive abilities.

OK. Here's the play, since all Blues seem to agree.

Blue Lanterns

Now, there are four of us, minus Kast since he's now Green, but he's participating anyway.

I'd like everyone to claim wheither they're an Operative or not, and if they aren't, whether you have active abilities or not.
What I'm asking is a PR claim or not. I'm not asking for a massclaim.
I'm hoping that this will flow straight into mass-Blue confirmage.

And I plan on supplementing the claims you'll all be doing with something of my own.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Regarding the Blue Mass Claim

I am not an Operative.
I also do not have an ‘active’ Power.

I will elaborate as necessary.

--

I really don’t like the following I have seen from Tans regarding his wagon–

If you are so sure I am scum then put a vote on me.

It think this is pretty clear. No provisos regarding him being a certain color.

If you think I am yellow and you are TOWN and are saying you should vote for me you need to re-evaluate. Yellow is NOT the threat. Red, SK or Recruiter is the threat. If we do not hit one of those 3 today I think we may be screwed.

Seriously, you vote for me, when asked what color you think I will flip you said you don't care what color... Gotta ask you, are you fucking retarded? Did you even read my post? If you think I am yellow you should not be voting me. RED, ORANGE, BLACK. That is what you should be concentrating on.

So he begged / challenged players who suspected him to vote for him. When one did suddenly he’s attacking that as a bad choice based on color speculation.

Tans

- Why badger players who suspect you to vote for you and immediately call those votes into question as poorly reasoned? Did you think that somehow that would serve some sort of scum-hunting purpose?

[Kdub]

I have an active ability.

[Andrius]

Tans, I'm against most of your suggestions. Lynching KageLord or MoI is not good play.

So. These are our options:
1) Lynch Tanstalas.
Outcome A) He is Red #4. We move to Roman Numeral I.
B) He doesn't die, for whatever reason. We move to Roman Numeral II.
C) He is green who fakeclaimed as town. Roman Numeral IV.

2) Lynch nopointinactingup.
Outcome A) He is Orange. Roman Numeral I.
B) He is Black Recruiter. (Unlikely, buuuut) Roman Numeral III.
C) He is Green Hider. Roman Numeral IV.

3) No Lynch. Why? No one dies. Pretty much the "bad" ending.
Outcome A) Roman Numeral II.

4) We lynch the Black Recruiter, whoever he may be.
Outcome A) Roman Numeral III.

I) We're down one NightKill, and an entire Color Corps. Great. That's Two NightKills tonight, and one Recruition. Focus all energies on the Cult Recruiter.
II) Coming from No Lynch/ forced No Lynch. Three NKs and a Recruition. Here its essential for all kills to go to slaying the Black Lantern. He helps no one.
III) Black Recruiter is dead. Red, Orange, Yellow will act in their best interests, which is probably shooting Blues and a Yellow for non-Yellows. The last thing Red and Orange need are "factions", so taking out one Yellow will be beneficial to them.
IV) Worst outcome. We lynched town, and all non-town factions remain intact. Bloodbath tonight.

If we go to night RIGHT NOW we're looking at:
X Townies on varying color
1 Red (sometimes refered to as #4 by me)
1 Orange SK
2 Yellows (Siniestro_Godfather and..?)
1 Black Recruiter (with one recruit, at most)

So AT BEST we're looking at 6:5. Oh noes. We're pretty much guaranteed to be outnumbered after tonight, unless we get an amazing night.
Now, I'm going to attempt to explain to you (and the scum) why its the best play for them to (attempt to) shoot Black Recruiter or each other tonight.

We're essentially fighting FOUR scumteams. Yes, I'm couting Orange and Black as scumteams. Because in order for them to win, they have to be alive and outnumber the town AT LEAST. Because they all need to be alive, and they all have to kill each other at some point.

Let's say that Blue claiming goes well, and we're sitting tall with 4 Blues of townieness. They could kill us all, hypothetically. What good does that do?
D5 we hit shithole with 2 townies at max, and 5 anti-town players. Yellow wins (assuming they just need to be larger than other factions) if a townie is killed. But oh wait! CULT. Cult doesn't kill, remember. They recruit. So one of our townies is now black. What does that mean? Yellow's win is delayed, as they have to both kill a townie and Black.
So they NK Black Recruit.
Oh wait.
They recruited again.
There's two again.
So yeah.
Yellow is getting f***ed by Black in the longterm. Red and Orange are as well, but Yellow is most likely to win right now, (obv).
Orange needs to kill everyone, most likely. being a SK and all. So he's in it for the long-run. As is Red.
Why Black? Simple.
If he's left around, he'll form a Second Town. Pretty much a scum faction that GROWS. So in your little 3-player LyLo you'll be sitting across from two black corpsmen and wonder where you went wrong. It was here.

Yes, we have a Vig. Either in tanny or Blue Brother, we have a Vig. So we have some power. But we (by we I don't mean just the town, but all non-black players) could use some concentrated firepower on likely Black Recruiters.

Did I make that abundantly clear? Scum need dead people, but shooting randomly won't help when the cult only grows bigger.

predit: Hey MoI. You

do

know that if you claim Immune to Yellow actions we won't like that, yes?

[MagnaofIllusion]

predit: Hey MoI. You

do

know that if you claim Immune to Yellow actions we won't like that, yes?

No my power is not some odd immunity. It's pretty predictable, especially if you were paying close attention (yes, i haz the power to breadcrumb also Andy. I just chosse not to loaf / bomb like yourself ). I have no issue full-claiming if necessary at this point.

[Kdub]

tans is almost certainly not red. One of his claimed kills was dram, and he almost has to be telling the truth about those.

Andy, is it your opinion that killing scum tonight is more important than catching more scum?

[Andrius]

Not yet.
You know that you just sapped the next ten minutes of my life; diving through your ISO. :/

Though I feel like I know who you are, character-wise.

/iso time! yaaaayyy


@ Kdub: Catching more scum is preferable than killing them, IMO. Because they have to kill each other to win.
I mean, they're both important, but we do have the noose, so.

[Kast]

@Dekes/Andy-
Lol@Dekes. Andy is on the right track.

@MoI-

Just curious as to why the Red Mafia (aks AGM) isn’t included on this list?

Are you admitting AGM isn't part of your Yellow Mafia?

I don’t see the any possible motivation to defend Yellow Scum-buddies because I am not Yellow scum. You don't know that of course but I can't entertain a notion I know is incorrect. This whole block is a cornucopia of speculation. Your POV here automatically dismisses the possibility that I am Town trying to hunt my top scum suspect. Your are simply filtering events through your personal bias.

We both know you are fully capable of evaluating the possibility of MoI-scum from a non-MoI townsperson's PoV. From that PoV, there are obvious scum motivations for your behavior. Agreed that this is not a 100% guarantee that you are scum; it is a potential scum tell. There is a possibility that you are town stubbornly pushing NPIAU-scum; despite your objection, nobody has claimed this is not a possibility.

As for the bold sections:
-If you were able to successfully push a counter-wagon, then you wouldn't have any suspicion on you. Your refusal to acknowledge this point is just silly.
-You're correct scum could potentially have Day Talk; that's arguing an irrelevant technicality to evade the point. This point is a response to your claim that only stupid scum would defend a buddy who is claiming scum. Even with a scum day talk and/or a pre-planned strategy for xvart to claim scum, you can't actually believe xvart was determined to claim scum

even if people listened to your counter-wagon

. Xvart had some pressure, you pushed hard for NPIAU instead of xvart. At the time you pushed, you obviously thought there was a chance of a NPIAU lynch.

If anything it would be much more likely Tans would work hard to incriminate someone not on his team, especially one who others have already labelled likely Yellow.

Agreed that this would be more ideal play for caught Yellow-scum. However, it's also plausible that caught Yellow-scum would latch on to a potential chance to *clear* their buddy, particularly if that buddy was already almost caught.

So what is this nebulous motivation you say? What scum-hunting would come out of correcting him? Give me something actually specific.

You tell me. You're the one who is exhibiting the behavior. Also, you're begging the question by assuming your motivation necessarily results in some kind of scum-hunting.

@Tans-
Your post sounds a lot like xvart's scum claim. If you're going to claim Yellow Scum, might as well do so now and save trouble.

@Andy-
-I am not (and was not) an Operative. I have (and had) active abilities.

[Andrius]

I didn't think you were an Operative, Kast.
If the only thing you could do was color swap I'd be very let down.

Waiting on Stove then we move to Pt. 2.

[MagnaofIllusion]

You tell me. You're the one who is exhibiting the behavior. Also, you're begging the question by assuming your motivation necessarily results in some kind of scum-hunting.

This is why talking with you is like talking to a fucking brick wall.

I saw no scum-hunting motivation in correcting Toog on a point that IMO was completely unrelated to gameplay.

You act as if there would be one.

Thus I keep asking your to provide it.

We both know you are fully capable of evaluating the possibility of MoI-scum from a non-MoI townsperson's PoV. From that PoV, there are obvious scum motivations for your behavior. Agreed that this is not a 100% guarantee that you are scum; it is a potential scum tell. There is a possibility that you are town stubbornly pushing NPIAU-scum; despite your objection, nobody has claimed this is not a possibility.

There is no point in me evaluating why I might be scum (and in this discussion Yellow ) when I know it not to be the case. Sorry, that’s a pointless waste of time. I know how I play and to indicate that it makes any sense AT ALL for me to push against teammate lynches two days in a row flies in the face of ANY meta evidence you could possibly find.

Are you admitting AGM isn't part of your Yellow Mafia?

Read the fucking thread. I called AGM red-scum based on his self-professed meta as scum to bus partners who are under duress. So all you are doing here is going out of your way to take a pot shot. Congrats on that ...

Agreed that this would be more ideal play for caught Yellow-scum. However, it's also plausible that caught Yellow-scum would latch on to a potential chance to *clear* their buddy, particularly if that buddy was already almost caught.

No, it’s not plausible at all. You are

ONCE AGAIN

stretching to reach a conclusion that fits your pre-determined notions.

Once I die or the game ends and I’m not Yellow Scum I’m going to quite properly call your play, if you are Town, horrible.

[Andrius]

Ok, my horrid reputation as a Baker preceeds me. I can bake but cannot eat baked goods, so to speak.
I know who you are, but not your ability.
Don't bother.
I feel like Kast's play makes him more likely to be Black Lantern. His claim on the other hand holds me back. :/

[Kast]

You act as if there would be one.

This is false. I pointed out that it is uncharacteristic of you to not correct someone when they misread a soft-claim. You're the one claiming there MUST BE some kind of scum-hunting relevance to all of your actions. If you have such a motivation, great, share it. As far as game relevance; there's pretty clear relevance when you imply something in a D1 soft claim, but claim something completely different on D4 under pressure.

-There is a point to evaluating it. You state that there is no motivation for MoI-scum to take those actions. That statement requires evaluating the situation from both possibilities (MoI-scum and MoI-town). You're blowing a lot of steam but there's no logic behind it.

-Or you slipped and admitted he's not your scum-buddy. Besides, AGM was against the Guderian lynch and never commented on Dramonic. How does either of those fit with bussing a buddy under duress?

-If you have two caught scum, then it's DEFINITELY plausible that they'll try to save one of them. If they can potentially do that by promoting a *clear* suggested by a townie, then it's obvious they'll take that option.

[Kast]

@Second bullet- actually doesn't require evaluating from MoI-town perspective. But it requires evaluating from MoI-scum.
@Third bullet- AGM could have been bussing SF, but so could a lot of other people. But if that was a slip and you have some private info that incriminates AGM, thanks!

[MagnaofIllusion]

As far as game relevance; there's pretty clear relevance when you imply something in a D1 soft claim, but claim something completely different on D4 under pressure.

What in the hell are you talking about? What D1 soft-claim?

Are you talking about where I said I didn’t get my first choice but that’s to be expected because it so popular?

In the case I was referencing Green since Blackest Night spawns from the Green Lantern Corps series and Green Lantern is by far the best known of all colors, especially to non-comic book people.

There is a point to evaluating it. You state that there is no motivation for MoI-scum to take those actions. That statement requires evaluating the situation from both possibilities (MoI-scum and MoI-town). You're blowing a lot of steam but there's no logic behind it.

Dear god. You just want to argue at this point. If you can point to any instance of MoI-scum ever defending his partners in an active manner please do so. Otherwise you are just trying to shoe-horn some generic argument about how scum play into reasons why I am scum.

Or you slipped and admitted he's not your scum-buddy. Besides, AGM was against the Guderian lynch and never commented on Dramonic. How does either of those fit with bussing a buddy under duress?

Dram was never under pressure (via votes) so I don’t see how you can argue that AGM never commenting on him in any way goes counter to my argument. As for Guderian for let’s examine –

1. Sens basically claimed scum in the thread.
2. You’ve just spent lots of time arguing how scum have motivation to push a counter lynch to prevent a more powerful role from dying.
3. Guderian was an Investigation Immune Janitor. Sens was a Bomb.

Your own arguments supply every reason why AGM is a very logical Red.

But once again this is just another case of you applying your conclusions and arguing against what I am saying since I’m scum. Even when your arguments contradict other arguments you made earlier.

[AlmasterGM]

I don't have any abilities (other than my vote).

[ReaperCharlie]

Vote Count

nopointinactingup [2] - Dekes, MagnaofIllusion

tanstalas [2] - nopointinactingup, The Stove

MagnaofIllusion [1]

- AlmasterGM

Not voting [6]

- Andrius, KageLord, Kast, Kdub, Kublai Khan, tanstalas

With 11 alive, it is 6 to lynch. Deadline is February 10, 2011.

[The Stove]

We're the same.


- PZ

[Andrius]

We're the same.


- PZ

As AGM?

[The Stove]

Yes. Well. Who knows about AGM. But we don't have any super mystery powers, no. And I have whined about that plenty in our QT.

[Andrius]

Ok well good.
Because this will be short.
AND FURTHERS THE 4:4:4:4:4:4:1 idea with 2 PRs and 2 VTS per group. (Although the mod said not to take it seriously, I'm still considering it as viable.)

Kast, could you claim your Blue ability

please? I want to see how much alike you are to me (and Kdub).

[Andrius]

Ok.
Let's look at it this way:

RED and YELLOW are really different.
RED = Janitor (from extra brutality), BOMB (KABOOM). Goon.
YELLOW = NINJA (sneaking around), WATCHER (again, sneaking). So I'm willing to bet the following:

last RED is either:
Strongman or RB perhaps

YELLOW has:
GF of some sort; perhaps kill-immune to offset the Reds. And a Goon.

ORANGE:
BP SK. Done deal.

I'm very happy with where this is going. Not having to out the Blue Lantern Trade Secret is an extra bonus too. <3
Kdub, did you ever say who you targeted last night? I feel like we should go over this in case you die overnigt.

[The Stove]

AND FURTHERS THE 4:4:4:4:4:4:1 idea with 2 PRs and 2 VTS per group. (Although the mod said not to take it seriously, I'm still considering it as viable.)

Huh. I just looked back over the flips and you're right. Especially Violet.

[Andrius]

AND FURTHERS THE 4:4:4:4:4:4:1 idea with 2 PRs and 2 VTS per group. (Although the mod said not to take it seriously, I'm still considering it as viable.)

Huh. I just looked back over the flips and you're right. Especially Violet.

Exactly. Which implies AGM is scum.
And we have 2 scum in [nopoint, tanstalas, KageLord].
This also means that Siniestro is a Goon. Which is odd, but Ninja and Watcher are both pretty good.

KageLord, this is probably a dumb question, but do you have an active ability?

[The Stove]

For Those Keeping Score at Home

Red

(3/4):

Guderian

,

dramonic

,

SensFan

, ????

Orange

(0/1): ????

Yellow

(2/4):

katsuki

,

xvart

, ????, ????

Green

(

6

/4):

Vi

,

Stephoscope

,

Fate

, nopointinactingup, KageLord, tanstalas

Blue

(4/4): MagnaofIllusion, Kdub, Andrius, The Stove

Indigo

(4/4):

Plum

,

SpyreX

, Dekes, Kublai Khan

Violet

(

5

/4):

Jack

,

Toogeloo

,

xRECKONERx

,

Starbuck

, AlmasterGM

Wildcard: Kast

Blue

->

Green

Yeah. AGM's kinda autoscum.

[Dekes]

Unvote; Vote: Almaster

@Tanstalas
Can you elaborate on your KageLord = Black recruiter theory?

MoI resorting to post game threats again...yuck.

Andy, that theory wouldn't match up with the Blues. Do you consider Kast Blue Lantern? Or even MoI? Either way you'd have three persons who claimed active abilites (Kdub, you and #3) and one VT.
And Almaster has a point. You still haven't delivered Black Lantern evidence. Who out of the remaining people falls into that category? One of the greens?