Mini 1117 - Manhattan Special - [GAME OVER]

[el simo]

Also, Sub, are you seriously I'm trying to be the alpha male in a game with Internet Stranger?

^ lol

---

vote: CrazyQuestions

He's just mud flinging! Calling out Internet Strangers play with out actually commenting on it himself! Not only is it totally non committal but it's classic scum bait, I bet he is just waiting for someone else to take his hook and run with it.

Curious my arse, pfft.

[el simo]

Also, Sub, are you seriously I'm trying to be the alpha male in a game with Internet Stranger?

^ lol

---

vote: CrazyQuestions

He's just mud flinging! Calling out Internet Strangers play with out actually commenting on it himself! Not only is it totally non committal but it's classic scum bait, I bet he is just waiting for someone else to take his hook and run with it.

Curious my arse, pfft.

Quoting for emphasis!

[el simo]

He's just mud flinging! Calling out Internet Strangers play with out actually commenting on it himself!

Pardon? I was the first in calling out IS. Shadow just parroted EXACTLY my two first comments. Then I added a third novel one. Which game are you reading??

Quote for me, where you commented on IS's alignment. You didn't, you flung mud, you said he was curious and implied negative connotations. You were purposely being vague.

[el simo]

Just so you all know. Crazy is clearly town.

I have about as much confidence in this statement as I do in your scum team.

[el simo]

I can only assume you're not voting him because your read on Grey is stronger?

[el simo]

I wanted you to comment on the implications the use of the words has and what it means about IS's alignment - like a townie would have.

It is plain and simply the fact that you JUST pointed out things you found curious that I find you scummy.

You don't want me to ask people to shout scum but you have no problem with Emp shouting town? What is the difference? Both of them have the same dangers.

You don't want me to ask people to shout scum but you have a whole daddy son scum team theory going on?

Why the double standards Crazy?

[el simo]

You don't want me to ask people to shout scum but you have no problem with Emp shouting town? What is the difference? Both of them have the same dangers.

Empking said I am town. If he thinks so, fine.

I expressed what I found interesting in IS's words. Obviously, my message was an announcement to pay attention to his words. You need me to say SCUMSCUMSCUM when I point out to people's inconsistencies? I can do it with ctrl copy and ctrl paste if you need it.

You don't need to say SCUMSCUMSCUM you just need to tell us what his curious words imply about his alignment, is it suspicious? Do you think it is scummy? etc. Saying it is just curious is baiting the town.

You don't want me to ask people to shout scum but you have a whole daddy son scum team theory going on?

I dont want you to REQUIRE IT as a necessity all the time. I think my words were clear.
I have not a scum team general theory. I just gave a plausible interpretation of what I was observing. I think it fits.

You think it fits, so you think IS and Sub are scum? If you don't then it doesn't fit.

[el simo]

El: What are your thoughts on Grey avoiding the thread?

None, he made two posts six hours ago. This isn't enough time to confirm any activity theories, it is the middle of the working week.

[el simo]

El: What are your thoughts on Grey avoiding the thread?

None, he made two posts six hours ago. This isn't enough time to confirm any activity theories, it is the middle of the working week.

I don't get it. He's on the forum. He's posting, Why can't he post here?

Oh, didn't notice he was on the boards atm. Regardless I still think it is too early to be making activity theories, if he continues to play like this through out the day we can make something of it.

[el simo]

You don't need to say SCUMSCUMSCUM you just need to tell us what his curious words imply about his alignment, is it suspicious? Do you think it is scummy? etc. Saying it is just curious is baiting the town.

Do you really need to know why reacting with 2 ridiculous/dumb shoutings and having 3 reasons to vote after just 1 random vote post sounds scummy? Well, I seem the pro here, I am surprised

I shouldn't have to know anything it's your post and this is why it's scummy. You left it out in the open for us to interpret and run with with out making any commitment yourself.

You think it fits, so you think IS and Sub are scum? If you don't then it doesn't fit.

Creating dichotomies is not very pro-town. Do you know what probabilities are?

I already said that after the first post by IS i thought he was very very slightly scum. After all what has happened later, I think they are slightly scum. From that to say they are scum there is a big gap. I am going to analyze all evidence I can before crossing that point...

Non committal and hesitant, you're not on a good roll here.

[el simo]

So thinking you are scum is extreme but talking about daddy son scum teams isn't?

[el simo]

El: What are your thoughts on Grey avoiding the thread?

YOU'RE SCUM

VOTE: EMPKING

FOR THE RECORD, I KNOW EXACTLY WHAT I AM DOING THIS GAME.

So humour me guys; what in all of this crap do I have to re-read to catch up again? This is exactly like how IS described it; it's a family fight, not scumhunting.

I was waiting for this

[el simo]

^ which is why I'd rather leave it to later in the game when we have an actual pattern to analyse. Too much wifom this early.

[el simo]

^ which is why I'd rather leave it to later in the game when we have an actual pattern to analyse. Too much wifom this early.

No its not WIFOM. Don't use that word unless you know what is means.

I don't appreciate the demeaning tone bub.

What you've claimed isn't WIFOM, and that is that he is avoiding the thread, but his only possible defence is all catch 22. It's a loaded accusation and this early in the game with having given him enough time to establish a pattern for us to analyse, it's just all bad news.

[el simo]

Read back posts 9, 12 and 20.

9 states my observations
12 states shadow's observations
20 states how I call shadow's observations "parroting me" (because he mentions exactly the same two facts i mentioned)

You've split my mind now.

On one hand you see someone parroting (personally I don't think it was a parrot but that is irrelevant) and you make it heard - which would seemingly disprove my point.

But on the other hand you do the same thing you were guilty of doing with IS and that is flinging mud, you claim he is parroting but leave it at that, you make no implications as to what this means about his alignment (ie is it scummy).

Unvote

for now. I need to get a meta on you or something.

Grey's action mark him clearly scum due to there not being any pro-town natureto his actions. That means hecan't defend himself without resorting to WIFOM. That's not fair!

That is a fair enough statement but to believe it to be true after two posts and one day, it's a stretch imo.

[el simo]

But on the other hand you do the same thing you were guilty of doing with IS and that is flinging mud, you claim he is parroting but leave it at that, you make no implications as to what this means about his alignment (ie is it scummy).

You are not making implications as to what my second flinging mud means about my alignment.

I obviously disagree that I made any flinging mud. The word "parrot" is as clear as the word "flinging mud". In any case, I did not find his parroting especially important, since some people tend to misunderstand or not even read some of my messages. Since his vote on me seemed to be a joke/random, I did not pay more attention to it.

Difference being I voted you and said your actions were scummy, and continued to pursue your case. Where as you made the comment and left it that.

I need to get a meta on you or something.

You do not need it. You made a mistake (assuming you did not understand my post) calling me on flinging mud. After my explanation, you had to rationalize your past mistaken accusation so you have come with a ridiculous argument. It is so weak that you even retreat politely saying that you need a meta...

No I didn't because you made the exact same tell, reason why I need a meta is to confirm whether you play like this normally or if I have two damning tells on you or not.

[el simo]

How am I biased? I saw a scum tell and attacked you for it. Why does this make me biased? How am I being prejudice? That is a silly notion.

---

Ah right I get the parrot now, I didn't understand how you used the numbers in that post. I thought they were dictating how many reasons you have to believe IS was curious, as in the first reason is post the second reason is times calling dumb and third reason is reaons for his vote <- which was completely illegible. But it makes sense now.

[el simo]

How am I biased? I saw a scum tell and attacked you for it. Why does this make me biased? How am I being prejudice? That is a silly notion.

I proved you that I both noted the behavior of IS and Shadow. The parroting was noted by me, and it was a very minor issue to me since he had not been inconsistent voting me (seemed a fun vote). The behavior of IS was noted by me, and I have been following the story later. You can read the daddy-son story. There is not any mud at all. If you want a wall of quotes to see it, I will do it, at the cost of making people tired of me.

POST 11

"Strange" phenomenon updated. The regularity remains...

4 serious words consecutively used in a post: (rid, quick, lynch, scum)

POST 20

I assume that (you parroting me) + (you voting for me) implies that your vote is random

Read the four consecutive rhetoric questions of Internet Stranger. Introducing such four serious words after a random vote by Grey is kinda a curious phenomenon.

[quote="substrike]
Personally I'm finding your (EMPKING) play just as suspect as Shadow's right now.

You STOLE my words !!!
However, I will avoid using them, because: (i) in my case, YOUR refers to substrike instead of empking, and that might create confusion in the audience and (ii) I like slow play and I would not use the word suspect for these episodes...

[/quote][/quote]

Again, you just totally biased by your first impression when you had not even understood my messages. I doubt you understood the message on "the four words". And I also doubt you understood my sentence on the stolen words with substrike...and hence, you better ask someone to explain to you...[/quote][/quote][/quote][/quote][/quote]

You never said he was scummy or voted him once in these quotes. This was my original point, nothing you have said has changed this, you made these statements but did nothing with them, you were just throwing them up in the air. You didn't FoS or say these things made him scummy or vote him or nothing, you just said them, this is scummy because its bait for town to use with out you getting yourself dirty after a possible lynch.

His parroting hasn't changed this because after you called him out for parroting, again you did nothing with it, you just left it, you never said it was scummy or that you were suspicious of him nor did vote him, you just said it. This is why I unvoted, to check a meta, to find out if this is your normal play, to see if you are always this purposely vague or if it's just you being bad scum.

I will comment on the other discussions in short time.

[el simo]

To derail this debate, what does everyone think about lynching lurkers? Because...

Unvote

Vote: Saporovirus

Or we can lynch scum.

I never saw this post by Grey until Emp quoted it, and I don't like it one bit. There is a lot of discussion going on, there is no need for us to halt everything and vote lurkers at this point in time, all it will do is stifle discussion and make this game inactive.

This looks like typical scum trying to be pro town.

vote: GreyICE

Still going to comment on other discussion gimme a sec.

[el simo]

So scum hunting is a dick measuring contest and lurker voting is pro town, have I got it right Grey?

[el simo]

And if we're measuring dicks, IS has the biggest, he registered four years before me and 6 - 8 years before the rest of you.

This means I have the second biggest, just how the ladies like it.

[el simo]

So scum hunting is a dick measuring contest and lurker voting is pro town, have I got it right Grey?

So lurkers are pro town, is that about right el simo?

Nope lurking is a null tell.

[el simo]

Geez I wake up to three pages extra :\

Don't give him the benefit of the doubt, never give anyone that.

Also I'm... unreadable, is what you're saying?

Yes. I haven't been able to read you in any of our games. It's annoying. Normally I just forget about you and let other people worry themselves :\

[el simo]

Then why am I under the impression this is our fourth :s

[el simo]

hebis

CAPS DOESN'T HELP YOUR CASE BUDDY.

Stop exaggerating my points, I'm not asking you to go out calling them SCUMSCUMSCUM. It's just when you make these comments on people generally you state that this makes them suspicious, or you vote them to show that you are serious about them. Idc if you want to declare war on them or if you just want to say IGMEOY, it's irrelevant, but point is it shows what you think about them.

I'm not asking you to go around shouting that you are town and that you are scum hunting either, so where you got this from I'm not sure.

And I'm not saying you aren't expressing your observations, clearly you have been, you've just be repressing your opinion of them (until recently). Generally people make their observations and then state what they mean, you weren't, you were just making observations.

You're taking one word in my sentence and focussing that to try and refute the rest. Yes, a possible lynch. I know we are still early in the day, but we are still going to lynch someone today. What my statement was saying is by making these observations and not expressing your thoughts on them (as in thinking he is scum or that you are suspicious of him or a FoS or IGMEOY or that he seems scummy or how ever it is you do it) you are giving the town ammunition to set up a lynch and then when it flips town, assuming it does, you can say but oh what no I never said he was scumming these were just my observations etc etc. It's what I call scum baiting.

No, not shout more, in fact stop shouting all together please it's annoying. You're meant to say what these observations you are making imply, what you think about them, fffff man.

ANYWAY we're just going in circles, you say you are expressing yourself I say you aren't lets just leave it at that and move on, I've still got to do that meta on you anyway to find out if this is normal so at this point in time my read on you is null <- thus why I am not voting you, so don't get all hissy.

Doh. I just realized that I didnt mean Midnight. He hasnt done anything yet except for some random vote.

The scum is Shadow. He is here, but not really here. Like he is making his appearance known but not contributing anything of substance. All I see from him are small one liners criticizing people and not being all that pertinent. That has to be the scummiest type of behavior.

Unvote: Midnight
Vote: Shadow

I can agree with this post, but Grey is just as guilty. He's done nothing to contribute to our discussions and insists on ignoring everything so he can chase monkeys, this is after he parrots you and votes for Shadow. He has made some efforts to involve himself but they have all been nulls, as in he isn't taking a stance he just says eh neutral.

My thoughts are currently Grey, Shado and Crazy pending his meta. SWs most recent post makes me want to move my vote from Grey to him, I believe town would reacted to IS by improving their play so IS wouldn't have a point, SW is just complaining about real life and saying IS is wrong.

unvote, vote: ShadoWolf

[el simo]

Mod:

Moving across the country this Monday, not sure when I will be able to get regular activity back, but I should be able to still make the prods.

Just a warning.

[el simo]

I feel Emp vs Sub is just town vs town at the moment, I'm not really convinced by either of them and I feel Sub hasn't done anything outside his town meta, I don't know Emp this well though so not sure what's up with the arrogance thing going on, but I've been seeing that 2008 is a notorious year for producing arrogant players so I'm pretty over it. His subtitle confuses me though, Emp are you an alt? You play like one.

[el simo]

EL SIMIO

1. He starts the game discussing me only. If his post 4 is about me and he is assuming that I am voting Grey with a scumread, then clearly he is not reading me. Thus, he is reading superficially the game and can interpret my words as muddy.

That wasn't directed at you, don't know how you could think this.

2. Participates in no other activity in the thread. A short exchange with empking about lurking and a comment without expressing what he thinks in post 11. Didnt he consider mudding bad? why is he doing here?

Post 11? I think you're confused.

3. Keeps his attack on me without any extra reason. Accepts that I described IS' attitude though now changes his view to "vote and say people is scummy". He is however not pointing out to anyone, so clearly there is no single piece of scumhunting in his actions. Especially important that in post 18, he takes the chance to move to Grey using Empking argument. Especially important since he tells Grey that there is much information in the thread, while he has not analyzed any single player except me. Again, turns to shadow by agreeing with someone and includes me again in his list even if he declared me null finally.

This quote doesn't have any truth to it.

Crazy English isn't your first language is it?

[el simo]

It was directed at Internet Stranger, if you read both posts in order you'd know this.

Post 11? You mean where I comment on TL's trademark late coming and declaring he knows who scum is? I don't see how this is mud flinging.

Give me a sec and I will rip quote 3 apart.

[el simo]

3. Keeps his attack on me without any extra reason.

Why did I need extra reasons? Scum tells don't get old, I don't need a new tell every page.

Accepts that I described IS' attitude though now changes his view to "vote and say people is scummy".

Siiigh again you are over stating me. I've made it clear that I'm not ordering you to go and vote and call people scum, here allow me to quote myself.

You don't need to say SCUMSCUMSCUM you just need to tell us what his curious words imply about his alignment, is it suspicious? Do you think it is scummy? etc. Saying it is just curious is baiting the town.

Stop exaggerating my points, I'm not asking you to go out calling them SCUMSCUMSCUM. It's just when you make these comments on people generally you state that this makes them suspicious, or you vote them to show that you are serious about them. Idc if you want to declare war on them or if you just want to say IGMEOY, it's irrelevant, but point is it shows what you think about them.

He is however not pointing out to anyone, so clearly there is no single piece of scumhunting in his actions.

I've made three cases on people, how am I not scum hunting?

Especially important that in post 18, he takes the chance to move to Grey using Empking argument.

This is a lie, I never used Emps argument I used my own. Our arguments on Grey are completely different, Emp wasn't even on Grey when I voted him. Emp's vote on Grey was because he claimed scum and because he was purposely avoiding the thread, mine was because he was not participating and was just chasing lurkers instead.

Especially important since he tells Grey that there is much information in the thread, while he has not analyzed any single player except me. Again, turns to shadow by agreeing with someone and includes me again in his list even if he declared me null finally.

Again lies, I've made cases on you, SW and Grey. Also I didn't turn to Shado because I agreed with IS (although I did agree with IS), I turned to Shado because of his defence against IS, which I made clear in my post when I said:

SWs most recent post makes me want to move my vote from Grey to him, I believe town would reacted to IS by improving their play so IS wouldn't have a point, SW is just complaining about real life and saying IS is wrong.

unvote, vote: ShadoWolf

Finish and klaar.

[el simo]

Unvote: Empking
Vote: Substrike

How wonderful of you to have voted me last time for lurking, and then go ahead and say much later after you had switched votes to go about saying how much of a null tell lurking was- as if that what I was doing in the first place >.>- What a wonderful contradiction you have made!

This is nonsense, his vote was on you because of your vote on Emp, and he kept it on you for avoiding the thread. This is not a lurker vote. Scum points for MS!

[el simo]

You parrot post just calls is a kinda curious phenomena, I don't see how this is making your stance on him clear at all.

Yeah I wasn't making any observations or analysing his posts or anything, it was a totally non game related post about TL's habit of appearing late and calling out scum, he does this every game (I've seen of him). It doesn't have any implications about his alignment and it isn't meant to. It's a joke about our history together. How is this mud flinging

[el simo]

I want a Philosophy 101 lesson IS! Never hurts to refresh the memory...

Anyways, El Simo, you got it all wrong, like always; which doesn't surprise me in the least bit

Not sure how I feel about MS's vote on EMP. Not a whole lot of reasoning there other than "oh look, wagon that's not being questioned intensely, yet." In fact I think that's the first honest scum post I've seen all game:

UNVOTE: EMPKing

VOTE: Midnight's Sorrow

How is this a lurker vote :s

[el simo]

Ugh Crazy you realize the only reason I'm still arguing with you is because you keep bringing it up? I'm aware that I called it null until I read your meta (which to be quite honest I putting off until after my move), but you kept arguing about points brought up BEFORE I said this, so naturally I had to argue my point of view from BEFORE I said I'd need to meta you.

As for the rest of it, I'm not going to bother, the town have their quotes, they will see right through you, you're wrong.

[el simo]

How indeed.

And... ?

Maybe you aren't paying as much attention as you seem to be <3

What? You vote him for having double standards on lurking, based on his lurker vote on you, yeah?

[el simo]

Accepts that I described IS' attitude though now changes his view to

"vote and say people is scummy"

.

Siiigh again

you are over stating me

. I've made it clear that I'm not ordering you to go and vote and call people scum...

Stop exaggerating my points

...

Wed Jan 26, 2011 6:03 pm

You never

said he was scummy or voted

him once in these quotes.

This was my original point

...

Finish and klaar.

You are taking this quote out of context. The next sentence says:

You didn't FoS or say these things made him scummy or vote him or nothing, you just said them, this is scummy because its bait for town to use with out you getting yourself dirty after a possible lynch.

His parroting hasn't changed this because after you called him out for parroting, again you did nothing with it, you just left it, you never said it was scummy or that you were suspicious of him nor did vote him, you just said it.

I clearly listed other alternatives to calling him scum or voting him. Stop reaching.

[el simo]

Ok, unless I've accidently walked into a 13 player newbie player game the fact that Shado has QFT'd Grey's fear of Ninja Hammers pretty much cements them being scumbuddies in my mind.

Yeah I'm finding it hard to disagree, ignoring all of the diddly squat that has happened between me and CQ I'm willing to call him the third man in the party just based on how hard he seems to be trying to not vote SW.

[el simo]

Sup bitches?

Will read thread tomorrow. Just checking in for now.

Welcome

[el simo]

I lose regular access from now, I'm going into the complete unknown so I have no idea when I will get regular activity back, will try my darnest to get here from a library or something but eee don't know what the situation will be.

Please be lenient mod I don't want to be replaced <3

[el simo]

Post for more time with prod woo. Leaving in 30 minutes.

[el simo]

Odd night choice, surely he was being targetted today.

I'm here but can't do a read up using my my neighbours pc.

Will try get a connection sorted asap.

[el simo]

I know its night but needed to let you all know I will be V/LA for three/four days. Going for a bit of a tramp.

[el simo]

Back, was white water kayacking.

Anyway, so glad cop caught IS scum, I've always been very scared of an IS scum.

CQ, just because IS was scum doesn't mean his reads were false, scummy actions are scummy, all he did as scum was just make us painfully aware of them.

I don't have time for a full reread as I still don't have my student log on and am using a neighbours laptop in her room.

I've never encountered an IS scum so I don't know how to read him now. His tell on Crazy about preventing the lynch was dead on - but he flipped scum, so that casts a hell of a lot of doubt on it, but it still is a bloody solid tell. IS is the bussing type though, he is an arrogant player and I feel that if he thought his partner was going to slow him down than he'd throw him under.

Erratus caught Sapo big time with his contradiction. Wishy washy logic like that is scummy. Huge scum points for Sapo.

CQ agreeing with someones logic isn't parroting, if it were everyone on any bandwagon would all be scummy parroters. Very rarely does a band wagon appear where each voter has his own specific reason why he is voting that player.

Eeh this is just from a scan over the last few pages - hopefully I will get my student log on and can dedicate some more time to this thread. I need to do a good reread of the flips.

vote: CQ

I think you were an obv bus from IS.

[el simo]

This is lovely. Are you saying IS' reads were trying to benefit the town?? lovely.

No, I'm saying just because he is scum doesn't make him wrong and you right.

1. Quote where and how I prevented the lynch.
2. in that case, How can be a BLOODY SOLID TELL to prevent a lynch of a player that flips townie?? His read on me was that I was trying to PREVEN THE LYNCH OF A SCUM PLAYER. This read is obviously WRONG.

1) The numerous times you refused to vote even though you claimed your vote was 'practically' on him.
2) This is a good point that I didn't take into account, so

unvote, vote: Sapo.

This is:

1. Parroting
2. Again attacking me indirectly coz you have no reason against me.

I'll say it again, agreeing with someone doesn't mean its a parrot. You have said this about everyone who has agreed with anyone this game.

Not bothering with CQ's case on me, if you think he is right read me in ISO and you will see he isn't.

Also @ your interaction with IS comment to Emp: you both actively pressured each other with out placing a vote. <- distancing at best

Votes on Sapo for his contrary logic. Would like to hear your thoughts on this Sappie.

[el simo]

Btw I have my uni account set up now so I'll be able to check in once about once a day from now on.

[el simo]

Yup CQ I didn't take it into account, I've made it very clear that I can't give this game the attention I used to, so when you made it clear I backed off. SOUND FAMILIAR BECAUSE THE EXACT SAME THING HAPPENED DAY 1. Also don't associate me with Empking, I didn't unvote because he did unvoted because you refuted my case.

[el simo]

What does slinging mud at IS have to do with Shado flipping town?

[el simo]

I don't understand why CQ continues to argue with me even after I've admitted he was right and unvoted - maybe tomorrow he will criticize me for dedicating 18 posts to his relationship with IS because even after I gave up on the case he kept bringing it up making me respond - just like he did yesterday.

Will try make a more detailed post later if I can make time for it.

[el simo]

unvote, vote: Emp

[el simo]

Eh just got back from camp, courses start on Monday, timetable is busy as hell, won't be able to give this game the time it deserves (like I can now syke), I really hate to do it but

mod, I need to replace out.

Sorry

unvote: