Open 272 - Near-Vanilla (Over!)

[AntB]

Due to deadline I will be happy to vote either Nacho or Andrew for reasons outlined, not sure what the policy is on Bella, but I will also be happy to bump her, egg or smash for lack of content.

My preferred option remains Nacho.

[DavidParker]

Sigh. Policy lynch on Bella is purely a joke(well it's not entirely a joke) based on her atrocious taste in literature.

[lord_hur]

@Battousai :

Why are you willing to switch to Bella?

Also, the fact that your post focuses nearly entirely on Nachomamma8 gives me the impression that you decided who you would vote for before looking for arguments. And don't say that you only gave your reasons for Nachomamma8 because it was an attack on him, because then why would there be this comment on farside22?

[farside22]

No offense to people who feel my experience is a threat.
Thank you much, I don't see it maybe because I know I have played poor as scum in some games and poor as town.
Everyone has weekness's. I completely understand lack of trust.

Battousai replaces JesseSheffield.

Yah!!! Someone I know something about and don't have to research as much!

@antb

suspects
antb- for reasons stated
lord_hur comes in , seconds the policy lynch, BUT doesnt vote. comments on bella is not a 'newb' then says ' i was just pointing it out, adding to the case' then 'fos david for interprating it otherwise???'

and batt

What happened to the comment you made about Nacho and how he is acting in this game?

Batt: I don't see a real good post here
You make 4 points without many reason's
For example how is this:

227- DavidParker is distancing = scum if nacho is town

How is this even valuable right now? What about 260 gives you the town/scum depending on Nacho's flip?
Why would you vote for Bella?

I found myself agreeing with Andrew for once.

unvote:
vote: Batt

[Battousai]

227- DavidParker is distancing = scum if nacho is town

Because town players having a town-read on other town players is unheard of?

When you replace in and quickly call the leading lynch town, I find that scummy.

batt's post was hewavily scummy.

how can u know for 'sure' smashbros alignment depending on nacho's flip

1) I never said for sure, I said probable. 2) If Nacho is town, Smashbro-scum wouldn't either go for the lynch of Nacho or distance from it. Instead Smashbro casted doubt on the wagon, but said he didn't mind if Nacho was lynched (thus, no distancing). HOWEVER, if Nacho is scum, it Smashbro-scum could be trying not to get his partner lynched, but at the same time, not appear to depending his scum buddy. This isn't very strong, so I put it at probable.

@Battousai :

Why are you willing to switch to Bella?

Also, the fact that your post focuses nearly entirely on Nachomamma8 gives me the impression that you decided who you would vote for before looking for arguments. And don't say that you only gave your reasons for Nachomamma8 because it was an attack on him, because then why would there be this comment on farside22?

"249- I see this as scum hurting his faction (1 bad scum is much more harmful than 1 bad town) more than town guilt. = probable scum" is why I suspect Bella.

2) My post is in reference to Nacho 2/4. That's not nearly entirely. It wasn't an attack on Nacho, it was an attack on the 4 people I was referencing. Nacho vote is because others find him scummy, and I'm happy with his lynch for the information, thus putting him at L-1 isn't an issue.

1)

Batt: I don't see a real good post here
You make 4 points without many reason's
For example how is this:

227- DavidParker is distancing = scum if nacho is town

How is this even valuable right now? What about 260 gives you the town/scum depending on Nacho's flip?
Why would you vote for Bella?

1) Above should explain that

How is it valuable? Having a strong town tell on someone or a strong scumtell on someone is extremely important. And by right now, I'm not sure I understand, assuming it is in relation to Nacho not flipping. It's valuable as it tells everyone that I have a very strong scum suspect, though it is based on a flip. I'd think it be best to post it for future reference. 260 is explained above, as well as Bella voting. I probably should have put in Bella in that post to make that point clearer, but I wrote it as the replacement was asked for.

[smashbro_of_the_SSS]

Alright, I'm not really liking Bella/shotty, so

unvote, vote:bella

Nothing really has changed for me for egg, mostly cause he hasn't been here much. but I don't like how Bella hasn't done anything to put forward a vote or give an opinion on who should be lynched, given the Monday deadline.

Also, not liking the archer vote either, seems like he just wanted to throw another vote on the second biggest wagon, so it looks like he's doing something.

[lord_hur]

When you replace in and quickly call the leading lynch town, I find that scummy.

Ok, this point has some merit imho. I've indeed seen that happening.

1) I never said for sure, I said probable.

You did say "for sure".

2) If Nacho is town, Smashbro-scum wouldn't either go for the lynch of Nacho or distance from it.

I don't get this, sorry. Why would smashbro_of_the_SSS-scum not do as all scum do, that is to try to get town lynched?

2) My post is in reference to Nacho 2/4. That's not nearly entirely.

Oops, I should have reread instead of posting on an impression. Quick posting at work can be bad.

[Battousai]

1) I never said for sure, I said probable.

You did say "for sure".

Smashbro "getting on the wagon" without voting = probable town if nacho is town, scum if nacho is scum

I called him probable town if nacho is town, scum if he is scum. I never said for sure.

2) If Nacho is town, Smashbro-scum wouldn't either go for the lynch of Nacho or distance from it.

I don't get this, sorry. Why would smashbro_of_the_SSS-scum not do as all scum do, that is to try to get town lynched?

Goals of scum: Lynch town, Survive. Go for the lynch, would be trying to get town lynched, distance from a lead wagon increases survival.

[inHimshallibe]

Official Day 1 Vote Tally

13 players remain; 7 votes needed for a lynch.

Nachomamma8 (4)

- brokenscraps, AntB, lord_hur, Battousai

Egg (2)

- DavidParker, Archer

AntB (1)

- andrew94

Archer (1)

- Nachomamma8

smashbro_of_the_SSS (1)

- Looker

Battousai (1)

- farside22

Bella (1)

- smashbro_of_the_SSS

Yet to vote (2): Egg, Bella
=========================================================

Prodding:

Egg, Looker, Nachomamma8

Deadline

: Monday, January 31, 11:59 PM CT. (GMT-6)

[lord_hur]

Vote: Nacho

as it will give me the alignment of Smashbro for sure

You did say "for sure".

2) If Nacho is town, Smashbro-scum wouldn't either go for the lynch of Nacho or distance from it.

I don't get this, sorry. Why would smashbro_of_the_SSS-scum not do as all scum do, that is to try to get town lynched?

Goals of scum: Lynch town, Survive. Go for the lynch, would be trying to get town lynched, distance from a lead wagon increases survival.[/quote]

So you're saying smashbro_of_the_SSS-scum would NOT do either, because if he jumps on the wagon, he sacrifices survival, and if he distances, he doesn't get town lynched?

PS : he's far from being at L-1...

[Bella]

Part of the problem you guys are having with my general equivocation is that I find it much harder to get solid reads on people when I'm reading through a game rather than experiencing it. I find it much easier to form opinions when reacting to things as they happen rather than looking over them with the benefit of hindsight - and it's harder to add anything "new" to a discussion after the fact when other people have had a chance to make all the salient points. But meh...

OK, Bella, you realize that your views on most of the people are "I could see them as scum/town, but not sure." right? You give one, maybe two strong stances. Actually, one, on lord_hur. It seems like a pretty easy way to sit back and then side with the biggest wagon. If you had to lynch one person right now, who would it be any why? (and preferably place a vote)

If I had to lynch one person right now it would be lord-hur, but I wouldn't be entirely happy with it.

Demanding a vote is pretty much the best way to assure that I woun't be providing a vote until I'm damn well good and ready.

I will try hard not to judge the dizzyizzy account.

Why would you do that? You've been pretty heavily on the meta side until now.

If dizzyizzy is the one I"m remember it was the one that flaked in a game and did nothing.
My first reaction to seeing the alt account name was to joke about the policy. Bella's reaction was felt like someone not amused.
Mostly I wasn't going to join the policy joke after that or think about that flaky person and judge her for her worth in this game.
I still plan on seeing if I have the right dizzy when I have time, but I have a feeling she may be telling the truth about it doing no good if she is.

As far as I remember, I've been replaced three times - twice because of an unforeseen family situation that made meeting the obligations of the games impossible and once because I fell behind when I was ill and couldn't get caught back up. Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong though.

Anyway... It seems strange to be asking for a scum list at this stage of the game, with the general activity levels of some of the players and there being several replacements already. The data doesn't exist to perform such an action. So, I decline to provide one. I will, however, provide my current thoughts on each player.

I don't see why it's strange to ask with 13 pages and deadline in about a week. There should be an impression or idea which you had but I don't like the wishy washiness you have in your post were you don't want to make a firm stance as though you are scared to make a stand.

I dislike scum lists at the best of times, I just find them to be unhelpful. Well, when I'm town anyway. Day one with a page of contribution prer slot and a lot of them falling well short of that... there's just not enough data to pull something liek that together, in my book.

Also, I don't like how everyone is so passive, except a few (farside22 and DavidParker). And no, smashbro_of_the_SSS, repeating what I've said two posts before in a menacing tone doesn't qualify, in my opinion.

Being passive isn't necessqarily a bad thing, although not in such quantities. If everyone was strong-willed, unable to compromise, set on being aggressive and leading a lynch, nobody would every get lynched.

227- DavidParker is distancing = scum if nacho is town

249- I see this as scum hurting his faction (1 bad scum is much more harmful than 1 bad town) more than town guilt. = probable scum

260- Smashbro "getting on the wagon" without voting =

probable

town if nacho is town, scum if nacho is scum

298- Farside gives her scum meta ("I try to avoid scum bussing D1") = null leaning scum

Vote: Nacho

as it will give me the alignment of Smashbro

for sure

, and a scum read on DavidParker if Nacho is town.

Will be willing to switch to Bella.

This a strange post highlighted by the inconsistency between the Smashbro analysis. The later posting when it was picked up by andrew94 and lord_hur makes it even more curious considering you're defending yourself by denying you said the "for sure" part. Very curious.

[Battousai]

Vote: Nacho

as it will give me the alignment of Smashbro for sure

You did say "for sure".

Oops, must have been a mistake. I think I meant to write DavidParker, as that's the only one that I'm confident in would be scum based on the flip.

2) If Nacho is town, Smashbro-scum wouldn't either go for the lynch of Nacho or distance from it.

I don't get this, sorry. Why would smashbro_of_the_SSS-scum not do as all scum do, that is to try to get town lynched?

Goals of scum: Lynch town, Survive. Go for the lynch, would be trying to get town lynched, distance from a lead wagon increases survival.

So you're saying smashbro_of_the_SSS-scum would NOT do either, because if he jumps on the wagon, he sacrifices survival, and if he distances, he doesn't get town lynched?

PS : he's far from being at L-1...

I said smashbro-scum would do one of those. He did not. He said he wouldn't vote it (thus not trying to get nacho-town lynched), but wouldn't be upset with his lynch (thus not distancing from the wagon).

[DavidParker]

Oh replacing in is too hard for you?? But you chose to replace in. Obviously you believed yourself capable of doing so or you wouldn't have replaced in. Toughen up princess. We aren't going to let you sit there without/fence sit and just coast through the game.

If I had to lynch one person right now it would be lord-hur, but I wouldn't be entirely happy with it.

Demanding a vote is pretty much the best way to assure that I woun't be providing a vote until I'm damn well good and ready.

Cool, until you do vote (and maybe even when you do),

Unvote, Vote Bella

With 4 days until deadline, I see no town motivation to not voting.

[andrew94]

batt, when u say if x flips town ,. therefore there is a chance that Y is scum.
are u gonna push for y's lynch if X does flip town??? (x being smashbro i think)

then if y also flips town?????

[Bella]

Oh replacing in is too hard for you?? But you chose to replace in. Obviously you believed yourself capable of doing so or you wouldn't have replaced in. Toughen up princess. We aren't going to let you sit there without/fence sit and just coast through the game.

Harder is a comparative qualifier.

If I had to lynch one person right now it would be lord-hur, but I wouldn't be entirely happy with it.

Demanding a vote is pretty much the best way to assure that I woun't be providing a vote until I'm damn well good and ready.

Cool, until you do vote (and maybe even when you do),

Unvote, Vote Bella

With 4 days until deadline, I see no town motivation to not voting.

There's also no scum motivation to do it. Wasted vote attempting to appear town much?

[DavidParker]

I definitely see scum motivation behind not having a vote down at this point.

[Bella]

There's no scum motivation in responding to pressure to vote with a refusal to vote, because it provokes suspicion from people like you.

[Bella]

EBWOP: Refusal is a bad choice of words. It's more a case of not voting just because you tell me to. I'll vote when I'm ready to, when either I'm confident enough in a read to put one there or time forces me to lower my standards enough to choose someone. 4 days is a long time.

[DavidParker]

That's like the same line of arguing that there is no scum motivation behind intentionally avoiding questions because they did it on purpose. If the action itself is scummy, it's still scummy even if the person realizes they are doing it. The only difference is the way you analyze it in the context of the player as a whole being scum.

Hey I got a bright idea: let's all decide this game is "too hard" and that finding scum is "too hard", and just unvote and wait for something to happen. Sound good?


Preview edit: 4 days is not a long time with weekend coming up and the biggest wagon being 3 or something.. How do you expect us to get to a claim, and then what if we don't want to lynch this person based on their claim? We rush another wagon to L-1 in our final few hours? That is bad play.

[Battousai]

batt, when u say if x flips town ,. therefore there is a chance that Y is scum.
are u gonna push for y's lynch if X does flip town??? (x being smashbro i think)

then if y also flips town?????

Wait, what? If Nacho flips town, I'm going to push for a DavidParker lynch. The Smashbro one is if Nacho flips scum. In that case, I would push for a smashbro lynch at some point, especially if he doesn't post anything protown.

What do you mean if y also flips town? There is no Z from those points. If you are talking about what happens if DavidParker flips town and Nacho flips town, I haven't gotten that far as I don't think that is a likely outcome.

[brokenscraps]

David's last posts seem poorly motivated especially since

So my ability to replace into games has been questionable at best in the past, the town games I've replaced in I've always thought I knew exactly who scum were and been wrong and done a lot of PBPA which I now believe to not be all that useful in most situations, so I might try something different here and look at the game "event by event" so it's easier to look at scummy things in context.

suggests he actually thinks replacing into game is harder than playing from the start.

[farside22]

"249- I see this as scum hurting his faction (1 bad scum is much more harmful than 1 bad town) more than town guilt. = probable scum" is why I suspect Bella.

*Reminder to self to look at this later*

I think Batt has defend himself well. Typically I would agree 100% with DP about the lack of vote. With 1 week left I don't see why withholding a vote does. It looks more scummy, but right now I'm going on gut with this and my gut says although I don't trust Bella something I find rings and sounds sincere.

That said I'm going back to voting Nacho
He is posting just find around MS and continues to actively lurk in this game. I'm betting he is hoping we ignore him and he can skate by.

unvote:
vote: Nacho

[Archer]

That said I'm going back to voting Nacho
He is posting just find around MS and continues to actively lurk in this game. I'm betting he is hoping we ignore him and he can skate by.

unvote:
vote: Nacho

I went to follow up on that and you are right, he's made 15 posts in the last two days (26+27 Jan) but not a single one here. That is lurking a its best. So nacho, what reason do you have for being active in other games, but not feeling the need to scum hunt in here even a tiny little bit?

[Nachomamma8]

I'm intentionally lurking at the moment, actually.

I've pegged two scum so far, I'm just wondering whether farside is the third or not.

[Nachomamma8]

Oops, must have been a mistake. I think I meant to write DavidParker, as that's the only one that I'm confident in would be scum based on the flip.

No, that's not right either.

Vote: Nacho

as it will give me the alignment of Smashbro for sure, and a scum read on DavidParker if Nacho is town

Original quote.

Vote: Nacho

as it will give me the alignment of DavidParker for sure, and a scum read on DavidParker if Nacho is town

DavidParker substituted in for Smashbro and it still doesn't make sense. Farside, how exactly is this Batt "defending himself well?"

Unvote, Vote: Battousai