Mini 1117 - Manhattan Special - [GAME OVER]

[CrazyQuestions]

I already said why Shado is scum. He hasnt even contributed anything. No accusations, no observations, nothing. Even after I called him out. Just snippets and snide remarks. You want a case, thats it.

Ok, noted. I will answer to you after reviewing him. Until now, he was a "parroter" in my agenda, which is not "far way" from your description, so umm...i probably will agree with your case. Now I will analyze other players too if you do not mind. If you add things to your case, keep me posted.

[saporovirus]

I have to go to the gym v. soon, so I will post what I think of you all without explaining v. much, for now. Plz ask me to clarify.

Crazyqs:

+2

for having the balls to come up with theories and speculations even if they are a bit farfetched. Sticking your neck out is pro-town.

El Simo: He is upset at crazy q's balls and wants to prove that his are bigger. He also is concerned with dick sizes. In the tide of the big e-peen measuring contest this game is turning out to be, I'd say he's a null right now.

emp: annoying as hell. But if I remember my last game with him correctly this is just emp being emp.

Erratus: Appears to be asking questions but I don't necessarily see him scumhunting, as much as finding easy reasons to vote for certain people (shado for not having much content, internet stranger for ignoring him.)

GreyIce: stop being silly. I logged in on Tuesday and I logged in just now. That's not called "lurking," that's called "having a life." I suspect you might have one of those yourself, since you've also been accused of "avoiding" the thread. Nice try though.

IS: got super defensive and emotional in his early posts. Also I think Erratus has a point in that he ignored his questions whilst gunning for shado.

Midnight's Sorrow: WHOAH LURKERZ IZ SKUMZ. Just kidding. Null.

Shado: apparently has trouble contributing anything of note amongst all the bickering about genitalia. I could give him the benefit of the doubt, but it seems like he might be profiting from the acrimonious nature of this game thus far, in that it gives him the chance to comment on stuff without taking any action.

substrike: I get the impression that he is honestly trying to scumhunt.

theLonging: who knows.

OK I AM GOING TO DO MY PHYSICAL FITNESS NOW.

[saporovirus]

P-edit
Confid: WHO KNOWS

[GreyICE]

I feel so fine with where my vote is sitting right now, you have no idea.

[Empking]

GreyIce: stop being silly. I logged in on Tuesday and I logged in just now. That's not called "lurking," that's called "having a life." I suspect you might have one of those yourself, since you've also been accused of "avoiding" the thread. Nice try though.

No. He really was avoiding the thread. How is that up for debate (or used as anumition against me rfor that matter) any more.

[GreyICE]

GreyIce: stop being silly. I logged in on Tuesday and I logged in just now. That's not called "lurking," that's called "having a life." I suspect you might have one of those yourself, since you've also been accused of "avoiding" the thread. Nice try though.

No. He really was avoiding the thread. How is that up for debate (or used as anumition against me rfor that matter) any more.

Does it look anything like he skimmed the thread really quickly to get me off his back?

Why yes. Yes it does. Yes oh yes it does.

[saporovirus]

Actually I didn't skim the thread really quickly, I skimmed it moderately quickly.

BUT THANKZ 4 REACHING.

[CrazyQuestions]

This is my first summary/review of players. Plan to continue later with the rest.

SUBSTRIKE

:

1. He declares Grey action null/wifom and goes for his attackers. Dedicates more time to IS and his view can be supported by my previous criticism of IS. However, he "votes" for Empking. In his favour:

The fact that he p-edited may have focused his attention on Empking

Weak

2. He is incoherent discussing my reasons on IS. He first declares not to understand. In the same post, he declares that IS has flaws WHICH I AM ACTUALLY POINTING OUT. Later again, he declares that my reasons are VERY DIFFERENT to his. These two seem incoherent with not understanding my reasons

Weak/Medium (since he has not answered properly)

3. Immediately he turns his views outside the wagonners Empking/IS. Suddenly, he analyzes questioners of the wagon or the wagonee himself (sorrow, Greyice). Just after calling Empking alpha, he agrees with him on Grey. However, he goes back to Empking after another episode. I agree with him in that Empking is a bit volatile wagoning, but I am having the impression that Strike is not touching almost anyone in his analysis.

Confusing/Weak

----------------------------

IS

1. He is attacking Grey immediately with big words, but re-reading sounds more like energy plus wishes to have activity/discussion.

Confusing/Null

2. He criticizes repeatedly Strike but moves his vote to me without any solid reason, despite he is saying what strike is doing is scummy. In his next post he moves to Midnight without a reason, sharing the wagon with his "enemy" Strike. He changes the vote after saying it is a mistake to Shadow. His reason is just a parroting of Erratus but later he wants to simulate this is "his case", etc.

Weak

3. He is very concentrated on Shadow without any attention to other player, or at most, conditional (looks at me for not "talking of shadow", when his only comment on shadow was a parrot).

Weak

[GreyICE]

Actually I didn't skim the thread really quickly, I skimmed it moderately quickly.

BUT THANKZ 4 REACHING.

Um, okay

<-Vote not moving

[Internet Stranger]

blah blah blah Crazy. Did someone make you a judge adjudicator when I wasnt looking? Why do you assume that your criticism and ratings and criteria are valued more than anyone elses? Because of nice clean formatting? You sure act like your.. oh, is this your entry into the penis waving contest?

I love the fancy lists. Its so useful for painting certain people as evil scum and totally pushing others behind curtains. Hey Crazy, if youre going to yuck it up on Subs and I, you might as well do it on everyone else to be fair. Otherwise all youre doing is drawing attention away from scummy individuals like Shado and trying to incriminate us that are out here trying to make a difference. Not only that, but they stifle natural conversation.

All that Crazy is doing is walking down the mountain and telling us plebeians that a higher power has deemed who we should think is the scum. Whatever Crazy, youre crazy.

Shado is your scum. Its rather clear to see.

[TheLonging]

Shado: apparently has trouble contributing anything of note amongst all the bickering about genitalia. I could give him the benefit of the doubt, but it seems like he might be profiting from the acrimonious nature of this game thus far, in that it gives him the chance to comment on stuff without taking any action.

theLonging: who knows.

Don't give him the benefit of the doubt, never give anyone that.

Also I'm... unreadable, is what you're saying?

[TheLonging]

...words...

Snif Snif, you forgot me. No need to tell me why, but you can do it after answering me what you have avoided,

i.e., why you found me scummy first.

I'm sorry I missed your question. What was it?

The question is repeated in the 2-lines post. You avoided it again. I bolded it to facilitate your work.

Because I found you to post fluff (not fluff in what most consider, but fluff as in "I'm posting but I'm not really posting to be with town, just so I can look town". I do find you more town now though because you're making good solid points.

This means I have the second biggest, just how the ladies like it.

NON-GAME RELATED VOTE. Consider it a change in my "random vote". You are not in my list of suspects. If you have a doubt about why i am voting you, then I am sorry, you are lost for society.

vote EL SIMIO

nvm. what are your thoughts on shado?

TL: If you deliberately ignore the thread in order to avoid answering uncomfortable questions then: Yes. That would be a point out of your favour.

I was hoping you'd answer in a way that would make me sure you're scum. Sadly, what I get is that you're town, so now I need to stop tunneling and re read... AGAIN. Yes, I do skip RVS, but I find it completely pointless, or I'd rather stop RVS as early as possible. It has worked before.

[el simo]

Geez I wake up to three pages extra :\

Don't give him the benefit of the doubt, never give anyone that.

Also I'm... unreadable, is what you're saying?

Yes. I haven't been able to read you in any of our games. It's annoying. Normally I just forget about you and let other people worry themselves :\

[TheLonging]

We only had one game together, and I wasn't there for most of that.

[el simo]

Then why am I under the impression this is our fourth :s

[CrazyQuestions]

blah blah blah Crazy. Did someone make you a judge adjudicator when I wasnt looking? Why do you assume that your criticism and ratings and criteria are valued more than anyone elses?

Where did I? ---> This is my first summary/review of players.

Hey Crazy, if youre going to yuck it up on Subs and I, you might as well do it on everyone else to be fair.

Did you read my post? ---> Plan to continue later with the rest.

[ShadoWolf]

You've done better than this.

You're right, TL, I've been letting some RL stuff get me down, so I'm not putting myself fully into this game. I'm sorry, and I will endeavour to try much harder in this game from now on. My sincerest apologies, everyone.

@IS:

Is this your super-amazing-fantastic case on me?

The scum is Shadow. He is here, but not really here. Like he is making his appearance known but not contributing anything of substance. All I see from him are small one liners criticizing people and not being all that pertinent. That has to be the scummiest type of behavior.

This isn't exactly a brilliant reason to push as hard on me as you are. You have literally mentioned me in every one of your posts after this, bar one. You obsessed with me? I'm flattered, but I'm not the guy you're looking for.

[TheLonging]

Then why am I under the impression this is our fourth :s

It is? I always thought it was 1.

Also Shado, that's acceptable. Get RL stuff cleared and all, and THEN try better.

[Internet Stranger]

Right, because the scum make an official announcement whenever they are about to do something suspicious. The scum call the press, throw a parade and bring the circus along with them to make an announcement for everyone to see that they are filthy scum.

All youre doing is calling for the Brilliant Defense. You expect the evidence to be like CSI level. Unless I come in with DNA, fingerprints, video, eyewitnesses and a signed confession, then any and all suspicious are worthless.

It does work that way here. You do scummy actions to draw attention to yourself. In your case its all your scummy inactions. How many more excuses can you come up with to actively not participate Shado? Its kinda hard to slink away and try to hide with me constantly shining that bright light of attention your way isnt it? Your defenders (like Crazy) take on the job of distracting everyone away from you, but that doesnt work with me does it?

Im pretty certain that I caught me a scum here. Your actions are doing nothing to dissuade me from my opinion. Therefore, Shado is filthy scum.

[Substrike22]

Crazy I honestly just gave up on answering your questions, because they are living up to your forum name. The second question was answered, I apologize if it was not to your expectations. I'll try this one more time and then I'm done with it. I noticed you were pointing out inconsistencies, my problem with your case was that you called something "curious" which doesn't really jive with "that's scum" or "that's town". Therefore, while I agreed with the premise of what you were attempting to do, and noticed inconsistencies, I disagreed with the details. That's what I'm saying. Your aggregate argument was correct, the micro argument was where we disagreed.

Secondly, I find the second part of the above post from shadow "curious" in a scummy way.

Thirdly, let's not, in our evaluations of people, give the scum shopping list of pro-town players, although at this point I don't see much of a consensus on that topic anyways.

Fourthly, EMP's play on p.6 continues to press me as scum. People who revert to calling lurkers scum this early in the game are usually scum who are attempting to pin suspicion on the people who aren't here to defend themselves. It happens in almost every game I've played. Someone calls one of the lurkers scum and throws a vote their way, usually putting them into a position where they cannot defend themselves without looking scummy. While I agree that lurking is, eventually, a scum tell, I believe that early in the game it is a null tell. I believe that the true scum tell here are the people that are focusing their attention on the passive lurkers as opposed to the active players. Don't have time to list them off right now but I'll be back later with a list of them. Guarantee at least one scum is on the list.

p-edit: ninja'd by IS and TheLonging but not editing anything as a result, got to go.

[Empking]

Fourthly, EMP's play on p.6 continues to press me as scum. People who revert to calling lurkers scum this early in the game are usually scum who are attempting to pin suspicion on the people who aren't here to defend themselves. It happens in almost every game I've played. Someone calls one of the lurkers scum and throws a vote their way, usually putting them into a position where they cannot defend themselves without looking scummy. While I agree that lurking is, eventually, a scum tell, I believe that early in the game it is a null tell. I believe that the true scum tell here are the people that are focusing their attention on the passive lurkers as opposed to the active players. Don't have time to list them off right now but I'll be back later with a list of them. Guarantee at least one scum is on the list.

Do I need to explain why this post is bull?

1. I cannot revert to calling lurkers scum when I've been calling him scum all game.
2. "Lurking" is a straight up null tell.
3. Deliberately avoiding the thread is something different and is certainly a scumtell.
4. "usually putting them into a position where they cannot defend themselves without looking scummy"... er, wow.

Do I need to explain why this post is scummy?

1. Ignoring page 7.
2. Ignoring the fact that I'm voting for Shado.
3. Misrepresenting the game (me)
4. The fact that its bull.
5. Calling people scum based on theory disputes (Lurking is null early game.)
6. A player doing X is scum is classic. Its pretending to scumhunt but doing nothing of the sort.

[el simo]

hebis

CAPS DOESN'T HELP YOUR CASE BUDDY.

Stop exaggerating my points, I'm not asking you to go out calling them SCUMSCUMSCUM. It's just when you make these comments on people generally you state that this makes them suspicious, or you vote them to show that you are serious about them. Idc if you want to declare war on them or if you just want to say IGMEOY, it's irrelevant, but point is it shows what you think about them.

I'm not asking you to go around shouting that you are town and that you are scum hunting either, so where you got this from I'm not sure.

And I'm not saying you aren't expressing your observations, clearly you have been, you've just be repressing your opinion of them (until recently). Generally people make their observations and then state what they mean, you weren't, you were just making observations.

You're taking one word in my sentence and focussing that to try and refute the rest. Yes, a possible lynch. I know we are still early in the day, but we are still going to lynch someone today. What my statement was saying is by making these observations and not expressing your thoughts on them (as in thinking he is scum or that you are suspicious of him or a FoS or IGMEOY or that he seems scummy or how ever it is you do it) you are giving the town ammunition to set up a lynch and then when it flips town, assuming it does, you can say but oh what no I never said he was scumming these were just my observations etc etc. It's what I call scum baiting.

No, not shout more, in fact stop shouting all together please it's annoying. You're meant to say what these observations you are making imply, what you think about them, fffff man.

ANYWAY we're just going in circles, you say you are expressing yourself I say you aren't lets just leave it at that and move on, I've still got to do that meta on you anyway to find out if this is normal so at this point in time my read on you is null <- thus why I am not voting you, so don't get all hissy.

Doh. I just realized that I didnt mean Midnight. He hasnt done anything yet except for some random vote.

The scum is Shadow. He is here, but not really here. Like he is making his appearance known but not contributing anything of substance. All I see from him are small one liners criticizing people and not being all that pertinent. That has to be the scummiest type of behavior.

Unvote: Midnight
Vote: Shadow

I can agree with this post, but Grey is just as guilty. He's done nothing to contribute to our discussions and insists on ignoring everything so he can chase monkeys, this is after he parrots you and votes for Shadow. He has made some efforts to involve himself but they have all been nulls, as in he isn't taking a stance he just says eh neutral.

My thoughts are currently Grey, Shado and Crazy pending his meta. SWs most recent post makes me want to move my vote from Grey to him, I believe town would reacted to IS by improving their play so IS wouldn't have a point, SW is just complaining about real life and saying IS is wrong.

unvote, vote: ShadoWolf

[ShadoWolf]

A) Right, because the scum make an official announcement whenever they are about to do something suspicious. The scum call the press, throw a parade and bring the circus along with them to make an announcement for everyone to see that they are filthy scum.

B) All you

'

re doing is calling for the Brilliant Defense. You expect the evidence to be like CSI level. Unless I come in with DNA, fingerprints, video, eyewitnesses and a signed confession, then any and all suspicious are worthless.

C) It does work that way here. You do scummy actions to draw attention to yourself. In your case its all your scummy inactions. How many more excuses can you come up with to actively not participate Shado? Its kinda hard to slink away and try to hide with me constantly shining that bright light of attention your way isnt it? Your defenders (like Crazy) take on the job of distracting everyone away from you, but that doesnt work with me does it?

D) I

'

m pretty certain that I caught me a scum here. Your actions are doing nothing to dissuade me from my opinion. Therefore, Shado is filthy scum.

A) It'd be nice if it worked that way.
B) I never said that. At all. I'm just saying that you're pushing way too hard for someone who's only accusation is one of active lurking.
C) Excuses? Fuck you.

I think you perceive yourself as this amazing super-detective who's caught the worst serial killer in the world, while actually, you're more like Inspector Clouseau from The Pink Panther. You're a bumbling moron.
D) I'm not scum. (inb4 "lol that's not a defense") You're doing your best to paint every single one of my actions in a negative light. You're tunnelling on me, and you don't talk about anyone else, (and I suspect, won't do until I'm lynched or you're dead)

[GreyICE]

Fourthly, EMP's play on p.6 continues to press me as scum. People who revert to calling lurkers scum this early in the game are usually scum who are attempting to pin suspicion on the people who aren't here to defend themselves. It happens in almost every game I've played. Someone calls one of the lurkers scum and throws a vote their way, usually putting them into a position where they cannot defend themselves without looking scummy. While I agree that lurking is, eventually, a scum tell, I believe that early in the game it is a null tell. I believe that the true scum tell here are the people that are focusing their attention on the passive lurkers as opposed to the active players. Don't have time to list them off right now but I'll be back later with a list of them. Guarantee at least one scum is on the list.

Oh no, early game bandwagons have lurkers on them.

Want me to start popping through the archives and finding you examples of scum that lurked most of day 1?

Hell, I'll grab the first two:
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 53&t=15589

Nexus: Hmm, missing days at a time. Turbo lurk
Zdenek: Yep, one liners and turbo lurk
Netopolis/Chalie: Turbolurk

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 53&t=15645
Carrotcake: LUUUUURRRRRKKKKK
Jase: Oh my god, an actual day 1 contributor. Well, in terms of content post #s. Yep, totally does finger lurkers, they're easy targets. BECAUSE THEY'RE OFTEN SCUM.
Llamarble: Like... prolific! Nice going!

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 51&start=0
Jmurph3: Really prolific! Uh... day 2. Like 4-5 posts on day 1. LUUUURRRRRKKKKK
Cogito: 7 posts day 1. LUUUUUUURRRRKKKKKKK
Third scum replaced so often I'm going to ignore the slot.


So, first three days, good day 1 strategies? LUUUUURRRRKKKKKKKK

[Substrike22]

A) Right, because the scum make an official announcement whenever they are about to do something suspicious. The scum call the press, throw a parade and bring the circus along with them to make an announcement for everyone to see that they are filthy scum.

B) All you

'

re doing is calling for the Brilliant Defense. You expect the evidence to be like CSI level. Unless I come in with DNA, fingerprints, video, eyewitnesses and a signed confession, then any and all suspicious are worthless.

C) It does work that way here. You do scummy actions to draw attention to yourself. In your case its all your scummy inactions. How many more excuses can you come up with to actively not participate Shado? Its kinda hard to slink away and try to hide with me constantly shining that bright light of attention your way isnt it? Your defenders (like Crazy) take on the job of distracting everyone away from you, but that doesnt work with me does it?

D) I

'

m pretty certain that I caught me a scum here. Your actions are doing nothing to dissuade me from my opinion. Therefore, Shado is filthy scum.

A) It'd be nice if it worked that way.
B) I never said that. At all. I'm just saying that you're pushing way too hard for someone who's only accusation is one of active lurking.
C) Excuses? Fuck you.

I think you perceive yourself as this amazing super-detective who's caught the worst serial killer in the world, while actually, you're more like Inspector Clouseau from The Pink Panther. You're a bumbling moron.
D) I'm not scum. (inb4 "lol that's not a defense") You're doing your best to paint every single one of my actions in a negative light. You're tunnelling on me, and you don't talk about anyone else, (and I suspect, won't do until I'm lynched or you're dead)

You mad bro?

EMP, you're a funny little Magikarp. You're seizing every opportunity to attack an easy target that you can. You're not formulating a hard case on anyone. You first voted for the guy who came and voted himself on the first post (stupid, but not necessarily scummy), and then you're voting for lurkers. That's scummy.

p-edit: I'm saying that early game wagons -on- lurkers have scum on them. I'm sure there's a very real possibility that at least one of the lurkers in this game is a scum, but there are other things going on here that are just as bad, if not worse, in terms of scuminess. With the kind of move you pulled on your first post, Grey, I'm surprised you're not using more of the aftermath of that post as evidence. If you're not gonna use the aftermath of what you did as scum hunting material, why did you do it to begin with?