Newbie 1038: Welcome to the Jungle! (Game Over!)

[tanstalas]

OK, I really have no idea who is scum at this point. I just think that King is town, and I know I am town so that leaves me with a pool of 3 people to choose from. I looked at the voting again and I agree with concission. Mirror did seem to sheep me a bit, I am thinking Mirror needs rope.

Am I out to lunch with thinking King is obv-town at this point?

[MirrorIrorriM]

Mirror did seem to sheep me a bit, I am thinking Mirror needs rope.

I'm not quite sure what me "needing rope" implies.

Am I out to lunch with thinking King is obv-town at this point?

It is pretty much accepted that he is total town. If he turns out to be scum it will be the biggest OH SNAP moment ever.

[KingTwelveSixteen]

Mirror did seem to sheep me a bit, I am thinking Mirror needs rope.

I'm not quite sure what me "needing rope" implies.
...

Generaly the word "lynch" refers to a mob of people ganging up on and hanging someone they all want dead.

So he is saying he thinks you are scum and should be lynched.

[MirrorIrorriM]

Mirror did seem to sheep me a bit, I am thinking Mirror needs rope.

So let me get this straight, assuming you are town, if you make an amazing point that proves someone is scum and proceed to vote for him; if someone follows you because they agree with your opinion they are scum? That sounds like a pretty one sided argument right there.

Besides, the me sheeping you argument is pretty flawed. My voting the first day was pretty varied between targets. The only case where the sheeping argument can be made is for the DP lynch.. For the llama lynch you could say anyone was "sheeping you" because they voted for the same person you did, at least until you realize your vote for llama was the second post of the day.

And lastly, 1 half of the entire sheeping argument is that we would both be scum and I am a newb mafia following my more experience team mate. Are you implying your scum by saying that I should be lynched for sheeping you?

[tanstalas]

This game is dragging more than a dead hooker under a car..

Even our mod is telling us to hurry this shit up. I do not know if Mirror is scum, I know King isn't I know I am not. Pine was so freakin guilty looking at the start...

gah, fuck it.

This is my vote.. hope you are scum

VOTE: Concission

Just look at his ISO + Pine's ISO, he HAS to be scum.. (though I was wrong on the previous two, so what do I know, you probably are town)

[MirrorIrorriM]

While normally I would get upset that your voting a week from deadline, Concission just doesn't sit right with me. I would like to hear his rebuttal first before voting.

[bv310]

I'm not saying hurry up per se, but I want you all to post more. Checking prod timers and such.

[Concission]

@King: You merely comment on my argument. So I'd do a favor in return by ignoring it so as not to get stuck in Point Of View WIFOM.
@Tans: You vote me immediately after you say Mirror needs vote or am I missing something? Have you looked at Pine/Mine IsO, do you know what is scummy about it? because from the way I see it you are not making an argument, you are making an empty statement. If you are town, please unvote now. Though it is more likely you are scum with Mirror, who is trying to act like he's patient while his words betray his eagerness to get me lynched.

[Concission]

Actually, Tans vote for Mirror earlier on imply that Tans might be town. But Mirror's inconsistency is very noteworthy.

TANS YOU IMBECILE! We have 15 days left! No matter how much you think I am scum (which isn't very much because you rolled DICE to decide) we have tons of time to learn the real mafia member!

You will surely spell doom for us if you go voting willy nilly like that!

See this is what I was talking about with you voting with little reason! This is so reckless it is insane.

While normally I would get upset that your voting a week from deadline, Concission just doesn't sit right with me. I would like to hear

his rebuttal first before voting

.

Then being fine with Tans' yet another impulsive vote when it is not on him.
Also note that the underlined imply he would vote me whether or not my rebuttal is good enough, else it would have been "before deciding to vote". I speculate him fearing that a vote may draw suspicion.

Tans-IMPORTANT: Though your vote brings about critical information, please Unvote and discuss before we lynch anyone

[MirrorIrorriM]

@King: You merely comment on my argument.

So I'd do a favor in return by ignoring it so as not to get stuck in Point Of View WIFOM

.

[sarcasm]Oh how thoughtful of you. Denying all arguments so as not to waste our time? What would we ever do without you?[/sarcasm]

Seriously, respond to King's accusations instead of brushing them off. Refusing to answer questions, no matter how small, is the most scummy thing ever as far as I'm concerned. Heck that is why I lynched DP, even if he WAS innocent, he still didn't do a good job of expressing it.

If you are town, please unvote now

.

Why don't you give him a reason? Your just saying that he should unvote you because he should unvote you.

@Tans: Have you looked at Pine/Mine IsO, do you know what is scummy about it?

I second this request. However concission, Pine was the prime suspect the first day and left alot of questions unanswered when he got replaced. Even though you might not have done anything to warrant the vote, your predecessor did. Although I think tanstalas's vote is too much this early, you sure are responding poorly to it.

Mirror, who is trying to act like he's patient while his words betray his eagerness to get me lynched.

It isn't eagerness to get you lynched, it is eagerness to actually be able to see how you react under pressure. You haven't been put under much pressure this entire game and have been able to do pretty much whatever you feel like.

FoS:Concission

Preview Edit: oh well hello concission. Read my thing about wanting to read your response. Also there is a difference between 15 days and 7. Voting when we have almost the entire game left is why I freaked; along with the whole scare King brought up about coordinated mafia made me flip because I was afraid of being lynched in an instant. This game is going too slow paced for that right now though.

Your thing with

Tans-IMPORTANT

is good, it is nice to see you acknowledge his post.

[Concission]

1> What is Kings accusing me of? Making weird statement from gut?
2> The reason is simply he has no reason (displayed) to vote me.
3> What? You made no argument to why I am scum and you threw another blank statement "you are responding poorly" in there.

[KingTwelveSixteen]

@King: You merely comment on my argument. So I'd do a favor in return by ignoring it so as not to get stuck in Point Of View WIFOM.
...

What? Are you serious? You started the whole wierdo Point of View thing in the first place, my argument was that the whole thing was bunk because anyone, town or mafia, could simply read the first posts by the moderator and know there was a 50% chance of town having a docter, then act accordingly. Oh, and your argument is invalid anyway, since it relies on Mirror being both a docter and scum simultaneously, which is really stupid. Either that or you just phrased it really badly.

The fact that you just brush it off and try to say I'm the one who is starting a bunch of WIFOM is very suspicious.

1> What is Kings accusing me of? Making weird statement from gut?
...

Making a statement that is untrue in order to put suspicion on Mirror, that is a scum tactic, through-n-through.

[singersigner]

I...don't even know...aaaaaah...



I'm...I'm thinking...and...will post my thoughts with Pine's/Consission's ISO+analysis soon...agh...

I don't know why there'd be any reason for Mirror to fake-claim doc at this point...so...wait...unless he's clearing himself...AGH...my head hurts...

[Concission]

@King:
1> I stated that was not my point. There is a 50-50 chance of there being a doctor, not a 100%, which is what I implied from Mirror's wording, which is what you apparently do not agree with because you have different Point of View. And no, I'm not saying he's scum and doctor at the same time do you think I'm stupid? I'm saying his doctor claim looks fake because:

@ Concission : Didn't see the need.

My first target was KingTwelveSixteen and my second was also KingTwelveSixteen.

I was so certain he was going to be night killed but I guess mafia predicted that?

Which implies that he assumes that the mafia knows there is a doctor in the game and strives not to kill a Doctor protect. Now how could he know that? There's a chance that he's mafia himself bullshiting his way into clearing himself.
2> In case you haven't noticed, I put a question mark in there for a reason.

@Singer: Wrong. Mafia probably has a good idea of the Set-up accordingly to their roles. So it is their in best interest to fake claim ( because they know they will not be counter-claimed ) ideally Doctor.

[KingTwelveSixteen]

@King:
1> I stated that was not my point. There is a 50-50 chance of there being a doctor, not a 100%, which is what I implied from Mirror's wording, which is what you apparently do not agree with because you have different Point of View. And no, I'm not saying he's scum and doctor at the same time do you think I'm stupid? I'm saying his doctor claim looks fake because:

@ Concission : Didn't see the need.

My first target was KingTwelveSixteen and my second was also KingTwelveSixteen.

I was so certain he was going to be night killed but I guess mafia predicted that?

Which implies that he assumes that the mafia knows there is a doctor in the game and strives not to kill a Doctor protect. Now how could he know that? There's a chance that he's mafia himself bullshiting his way into clearing himself.
2> In case you haven't noticed, I put a question mark in there for a reason.
...

Mirror's statement also has a question mark. As in "I guess they figured any potential docters would protect him so offed someone else." Which is a perfectly good reason for the Mafia to avoid killing me, as they would have like a 40% chance of being blocked.

Also, what exactly would the townie alternative to that sentance be? The one about guessing that the mafia out-guessed him with protection role stuff, since apparently the current version is scummy.

Also as long as I am attackafying you here is something that just popped into my head: Why was I the second to claim? I do believe that everyone else thinks I am the "Obvious townie" in this game and it seems odd that you would choose me to pop-corn to.

[tanstalas]

I like King's questions and comments, where can I subscribe to your newsletter?

Seriously though, I would like answers from you Concission

[KingTwelveSixteen]

Eeks, sorry for the triple posting, but I forgot to

Fos: Consission

in that last post. Now that Uite's flipped town, I'm gunna go back and look at where he was going with Pine...

It's been nine days, where is your promised ISO? Also, you seem to have been the least vocal and least content producing of all the people this final day, instead prefering to be non-comital in all posts. Sort of like a scum player attempting to coast through the final day to victory.

[KingTwelveSixteen]

So hey, I was just thinking. I can't really see Mirror/Concission scumbuddies at all, nor can I see tanstalas as scumbuddies with anyone but singer.

That pretty much eliminates all the different ways singer would be town, doesn't it? Anybody got some thoughts on this?

[singersigner]

Eeks, sorry for the triple posting, but I forgot to

Fos: Consission

in that last post. Now that Uite's flipped town, I'm gunna go back and look at where he was going with Pine...

It's been nine days, where is your promised ISO? Also, you seem to have been the least vocal and least content producing of all the people this final day, instead prefering to be non-comital in all posts. Sort of like a scum player attempting to coast through the final day to victory.

That promised ISO was lost when I got sick and spent time in the hospital last week. I've been recovering and trying to catch up everywhere else, and admittedly, this game hadn't been as much of a priority since it came to a stall as of late.

Honestly, I'm still only halfway through the ISO and haven't really been able to read up on much of the game/respond to any of it.

And...I don't really know what you're trying to say in your last post so I don't really know how to respond.

[singersigner]

PINEWOLF ISO:
0: Eager to start. Asks questions without answering them first.
1: Answers questions.
3. Seems a little too concerned with L-2 status.
4. Very vague and non-descript.
5. Seems a little uncommitted. Willing to do anything.
6. Already looking for scum pairs, which implies setting up mislynches. Llama already explains why this is a bad idea.
7. Looks like he’s backtracking and saying “I did this scummy thing on purpose…DEFLECTION”
8.
9. This is actually really intuitive…
10. Seems genuine, but maybe purposefully playing dumb.
11. Another excuse?
12.
13. More excuses. Nothing concrete.
14. Another excuse. : (
15. Mooore excuses. And now deflecting it “any excuse could be a scum excuse.”
16. Same as 15…
17.
18. When people use “please summarize my case” I usually take it as a scum tell, but I’ve just recently used it as town, so…
19. DP did the same “self-preservation” thing as town.
20. A “don’t read to far into my posts” doesn’t ever read town. =/
21.
22. Defense of 20.
23. First bit of scum-hunting I’ve seen all game. Going after the person gunning for his lynch.
24. First decent defense I’ve seen.
25. Backtracking.
26. Giving up.

Usually

newbtown.
27.
28. Genuine newb frustration…town or scum?
29. Not paying attention to his own votes.
30.
31.
32.
33.
34.
35. Sounds like setting up Brentscum.
36. Not really having anything to add but still listing others’ top suspects as being your top suspects is…suspect.
37. Unvote is pretty townie.
38. False. Speficially played newbie card in one of “excuses.” Blatant lie.
39. Plays newb card again…a couple times in this post. Huge Wall-o-Text pushing for DP...again, the one who’s pushing for his lynch.
40.
41. Backtracks on DP.
42. Same as 41.
43.
44. Refers to Wall-o-Text.
45. Kind of AtE but not really. Definitely giving up, though.
46. A little more AtE.
47. DEFINITELY AtE. But. DP’s right. More newbtown than newbscum.
48. Effectively gives town reads on just about everyone but Mirror…
49. Welcomes ME! : )
50. This is probably one of the most scummy things I found if for nothing else, the fact that he started out by saying “don’t take things seriously” to “you’re not taking me seriously” to “people take things too seriously.” What about sarcasm helps you scum-hunt?
51 I forgot what I good point I brought up. But seriously…combine this with his ISO 50 and it just reeks of scum backtracking. Why didn’t I see this before?? : (
52. Appealing to DavidParker…who conveniently enough thinks he’s scum…
53.
54…and this is where he flakes out of the game with no notice…

CONSISSION:
0. Checks in.
1. Brings up legitimately good points about Llama. Much of that same ones I had upon replacing in.
2. Follows up on initial suspicions.
3. Huh…
4. All of four posts in and already drops a hammer.
5. Doesn’t have scummiest read claim first…
6. Questions Mirror. Legitimate question.
7. I already pointed this out earlier, but again, this is a weird question.
8. Seems over defensive. I never said I thought you were scum. I was trying to put the pieces together. He goes from Mirror is the most-towny to Mirror is probably the scummiest. This looks like distancing and self-preservation.
9. Brings up a good point about Mirror and Tans…it’s unfortunately more damning for Mirror though, since scum are more like to vote upon seeing that there’s a chance someone else could look scummier.
10. Comments on Tans vote on him…which is weird since I JUST said I was gunna look at his ISO. This looks self-preserving on Tans part because if he’s the first to lynch scum, who’s to suspect him for BUSSING. Kind of seeing a Consission/Tans team now…
11. Interesting point about Mirror…but…I think Mirror had already expressed suspicion of you…bah…
12. Point one sounds defensive. Point two is…ok. Point three…well, over-defensiveness is responding poorly, IMO.

13. Pine, if mafia were going to fake-claim in LyLo, they would fake-claim cop with a guilty. Especially considering we haven’t had any PR or scum flips yet, they would be the ONLY people to know more the setup.

Mirror’s claim without a cop-claim suggests that there wasn’t a role-blocker. Those are the kinds of things you can deduce from claims. Mirror saying that he thinks the mafia anticipated the kill suggests that he only assumed that the mafia started off assuming that there was a doctor AFTER his doctoring didn’t work. But he protected King anyway, which suggests he didn’t know the mafia would assume there was a doctor UNTIL his doctoring didn’t work.

I have to go back and read the last page or two in context before I kind of give my final analysis on the situation.

[singersigner]

That took way too long to do.

And I'm sorry I was being counter-productive by not providing the promised content sooner.

Also, a couple notes, I didn't provide links towards Consissions ISO at the end because it's all within the last couple of pages, so pretty fresh in our minds. I tried to provide as many links as were necessary/not wasting time to go back as look according to my comments. I hope this helps.

The only weird thing is Consission bringing up a really good point about Mirror being ok with Tans' vote on Consission, but not on himself. That seems fairly inconsistent.

[Concission]

@King:
1> A more townish mindset would not have mentioned the Mafia's Point of View at all.
2> Since when have I regarded you as the towniest? And it is because the others regard you as town that you should claim early because should you be mafia and decide to fake counterclaim a PR you will be believed in an instant.

@Tans:
Unvote now. Your response reeks of buddying.

@Those who says I'm defensive:
If you could be lynched at any moment at LYLO without even knowing it, especially when you suspected the person voting you could be town, would you be defensive?

At this point, with everyone having their chance to catch up on the current situation but no vote for me and Tans refuse to unvote increases the likelihood of Tans being scum and his partner just waiting to hammer.

[Concission]

@Singer: Sorry didn't address your point. I think scums are more likely to claim Doctor. If they claim cop it's a 50-50. If they do not claim it's 60-40 in favor of the mafia. In addition, they have to get it straight all of their previous investigations. However, if they claim Doctor, it gives them more odds of winning because it's so easy to claim Doctor and get people to believe in you.

[KingTwelveSixteen]

@King:
1> A more townish mindset would not have mentioned the Mafia's Point of View at all.
2> Since when have I regarded you as the towniest? And it is because the others regard you as town that you should claim early because should you be mafia and decide to fake counterclaim a PR you will be believed in an instant.
...

Eh? Why wouldn't a town docter ever wonder how the mafia is outguessing who he is going to protect? That sounds exactly like what a docter should do.

2 makes perfect sense though.

[MirrorIrorriM]

If you could be lynched at any moment at LYLO without even knowing it, especially when you suspected the person voting you could be town, would you be defensive?

And yet you blame me of being more protective of myself then you