Mafia 124 - Dilemma Mafia (Day 6)

[Llamarble]

Added Fishy, DLG(maybe) and Broken to my townpile and Nikanor, Bobsnox, and Bidderskins to my scumpile. Still rereading ISOs and stuff, but I don't like the DBE wagon. I can see how Ender attracted some votes; he doesn't really make sense to me, especially the lynch me so Darla can die next stuff without a particular read on Darla. I'll just have to redeem this slot by CATCHING ALL THE SCUMS MWAHAHA!

[Empking]

Vote Count 12

1. bobsnox (2) - DarlaBlueEyes, Final Fires
2. DarlaBlueEyes (6) - Bub Bidderskins, CMAR, DLG, MoreWhisky, bobsnox, flinter
3. flinter
4. DLG
5. Jahudo
6. Bub Bidderskins
7. Fishythefish
8. Brokenscraps
9. CryMeARiver (0)
10. Nikanor
11. Yosarian2
12. Final Fires
13. Llarmable (4) - Yosarian2, Jahudo, Nikanor, Fishythefish
14. MoreWhisky

Not Voting: Brokenscraps, Llarmable



With 14 alive its 8 to lynch.

[Llamarble]

Huh, maybe I was totally wrong on my first pass and Darla is actually scum. I don't see much attempt to figure out who the scum are coming from her; she seems to care more about convincing others not to vote her. On meta perusal I can see her being scum, but it's not very clear. How soon is the deadline? I need to read more.

[Jahudo]

Deadline is Febuary 5th I think (since day 1 started Jan. 15), so around 8 days left?

@fishy: I knew you'd replace in strong, that's good to see in this game. Do you have a strong opinion about bobsnox yet? He's been the second or third wagon most of the day.

@llamarble: What is your meta tell on Darla? Can you give examples of her focusing on defense and not actively scumhunting enough?

I think that can be more of a subjective assessment when its about the top wagoned player most of the game. They will naturally have to spend more time on defense than other players, and so far I haven't seen her focus too much time on explaining herself. She's voted a variety of people lately, Nikanor and bobs to name a few. I think she's moved away from that cautious play when it was about Final Fires and ender. I think that could be a natural transition from low confidence on suspicions early day 1 to higher confidence later in the day.

But this would be another thing:

Darla's scumhunting mostly consist out of asking questions without using the answers she gets.

Can you provide examples of this flinter? For the Whisky vote, I thought she was misunderstanding some things, and dropped the vote when she got clarification. So that wouldn't bother me, but maybe there are some examples I missed from her bobs case or elsewhere?

-----------

My current stance: I still have town reads on bobs and Darla. CryMeARiver is my backup vote because of rekirtS, but is not as strong as my ender vote despite never getting an answer from ender.

[Fishythefish]

@fishy: I knew you'd replace in strong, that's good to see in this game. Do you have a strong opinion about bobsnox yet? He's been the second or third wagon most of the day.

I read bob fairly thoroughly, since he's a popular target. I don't remember what I concluded, but I know it wasn't overwhelming. I'll go through the arguments more carefully and actually comment on them (some time this weekend).

[bobsnox]

@fishy: I knew you'd replace in strong, that's good to see in this game. Do you have a strong opinion about bobsnox yet? He's been the second or third wagon most of the day.

I read bob fairly thoroughly, since he's a popular target. I don't remember what I concluded, but I know it wasn't overwhelming. I'll go through the arguments more carefully and actually comment on them (some time this weekend).

Not surprised. I haven't done much more than attract attention to myself to see what would happen by being fairly hostile toward some silly people.

I'm still good with my Darla vote. Keeping an eye on Ender slot (Llamarble)

[Yosarian2]

I don't really have much of a read on Darla based on her posts; I realize she's had computer problems and other issues, but I would like to hear more from her when we get the chance. Her case against bobsnox is reasonable, but I would like to hear her thoughts on other people, hopefully before the end of the day.

That being said, the wagon against her feels scum driven. I just get a bad vibe from it; the degree to which people are expressing certainty about her being scum seems completely out of proportion to the strength of the case against her, and I think that several of the scummiest players in the game are pushing that wagon in a way that I don't trust.

[Empking]

V/LA this Saturday

[bobsnox]

I don't really have much of a read on Darla based on her posts; I realize she's had computer problems and other issues, but I would like to hear more from her when we get the chance. Her case against bobsnox is reasonable, but I would like to hear her thoughts on other people, hopefully before the end of the day.

That being said, the wagon against her feels scum driven. I just get a bad vibe from it; the degree to which people are expressing certainty about her being scum seems completely out of proportion to the strength of the case against her, and I think that several of the scummiest players in the game are pushing that wagon in a way that I don't trust.

Do you think ender and Darla could be scum together?

[bobsnox]

Yos - has your opinion on Darla changed? You said earlier you don't have a problem with the Darla votes, but now you do? What's the main reason?

[MoreWhisky]

Darla and ender being scum together? wow i would have never thought of that but it seems to make sense. Top idea Bob im gona look into that more.

[Yosarian2]

Yos - has your opinion on Darla changed? You said earlier you don't have a problem with the Darla votes, but now you do? What's the main reason?

I didn't, and still don't, have a problem with DLG and Bub's votes for Darla. They explained them well, their reasons make sense, and it seems to be based on good pro-town reasoning; those posts look like honest scumhunting to me.

The way some of the other people on the wagon have been going about their attacks on Darla, especially you, Whiskey, and Ender before he was replaced, seem a lot more iffy and questionable to me. For example, your claimed oddly high degree of certainty that she's scum, based on what looks like a pretty thin day 1 case, really strike me as unbelievable.

Do you think ender and Darla could be scum together?

I'm not really sure. I'm not sure what Ender was doing with his "lynch me and then lynch Darla but I don't really have a reason to vote her so I'm not going to" posts; it really doesn't make any sense to me at all. Was he trying to get Darla lynched? Was he trying to make her look better if he got lynched? I don't really know, but it doesn't seem town to me.

[DLG]

Darla and ender being scum together? wow i would have never thought of that but it seems to make sense. Top idea Bob im gona look into that more.

Im actually starting to believe i got it wrong about ender.

I still think hes a newbie but Darla has used this to there scum advantage. FOS ender for after we lynched Darla.

This is a flat out lie. The only possible explanation I can come up with is to further push the DarlaBlueEyes wagon.

Lynch this lying scum immediately.

UNVOTE: DarlaBlueEyes
VOTE: MoreWhisky

[Llamarble]

Vote: Bub Bidderskins

He is tunneling/voteparked on DBE but doesn't like the other members of the wagon on her.
He has lined up Bobsnox or Whiskey lynches for D2 in the event of a Darlatownflip.
I'm not really impressed by his case on DBE.
Yosarian is also kind of scummy looking.

Then again Whisky is also pretty bad.
Why does everyone in this town have a lynch lined up for after Darla/Ender???

[DLG]

Yosarian is also kind of scummy looking.

Then again Whisky is also pretty bad.
Why does everyone in this town have a lynch lined up for after Darla/Ender???

Why does Yosarian2 look scummy to you? Without amplification, that just looks like OMGUS.

Yes, MoreWhisky does look pretty bad. Extremely bad. Get on board the liar's wagon.

I agree with the sentiment of your last question. Not sure why this mind-set seems so pervasive.

[Llamarble]

Yeah I really don't like Bub's "I don't care if Darla is scum let's lynch her for information so we can lynch Snox or Whiskey next" post.

Im actually starting to believe i got it wrong about ender.

I still think hes a newbie but Darla has used this to there scum advantage. FOS ender for after we lynched Darla.

So he thinks Darla is using the newbcard to defend Ender? Lining up a lynch for after a scumflip isn't as big a deal as lining one up for after a townflip, but this guy's scumhunting is not impressive. I don't see a lie though (please explain) and he looks like a pretty easy mislynch if town.

Yosarian is scummy because he's also preparing for a Darla townflip via calling the Darlawagon scumdriven and targeting the same members of it as Bub. Whisky, Snox, and Ender are all appetizing/convenient scumtargets if town and they make up his scumlist.

I'm not sure what scumteam sizes make sense with 14 players. 4v10 with a lot of town power? 3v3v8? It's kind of a strange number of players.

[Yosarian2]

Yosarian is scummy because he's also preparing for a Darla townflip via calling the Darlawagon scumdriven and targeting the same members of it as Bub. Whisky, Snox, and Ender are all appetizing/convenient scumtargets if town and they make up his scumlist.

Wait, what?

I'm saying I'm not going to vote Darla, and I don't want to lynch her today, because her wagon looks scum driven, and then i specifically listed the people who I said look like scum and are attacking Darla. I'm not "preparing for a Darla townflip"; I'm actually trying to prevent what looks to me like a probable Darla mislynch by trying to lynch one of the people I think are scum who have been pushing her wagon instead.

And I hate the last part of your post. "Whisky, Snox, and Ender are all appetizing/convienent scumtargets if town"; what the hell does that even mean? Is this the "Person X looks reeeallly scummy, therefore he's going to be easy to lynch, therefore anyone voting for him is scum looking for an easy lynch" argument you're using here? Because that's a really bad argument.

[Yosarian2]

It's also worth mentioning that, in his last post, it sounds like Llamarble already knows Darla is going to flip town.

[MoreWhisky]

One thing that is going on in this town is that your better of not posting, I say that as this is what Darla is doing now(even if these reasons are very genuine) and its working! Im not scum im town, ive told you who the main cuprits are Darla and the new llamarble.

And llamrble i do like your posts very nicely done.

[bobsnox]

Darla and ender being scum together? wow i would have never thought of that but it seems to make sense. Top idea Bob im gona look into that more.

what the

sarcasm?

One thing that is going on in this town is that your better of not posting, I say that as this is what Darla is doing now(even if these reasons are very genuine) and its working! Im not scum im town, ive told you who the main cuprits are Darla and the new llamarble.

And llamrble i do like your posts very nicely done.

is English your first language?

Unvote

Are MoreWhisky and Ender/LLamarble scum buddies? hmm

Vote: MoreWhisky

[bobsnox]

EBWOP

Meant to vote Llamarble and FoS MoreWhisky

Unvote

Vote: Llamarble

[Final Fires]

Wow. I had a nice long post, but I accidently deleted twice :/ Awesome. Sorry guys, but this is the semi-abbreviated version:

Darla and ender being scum together? wow i would have never thought of that but it seems to make sense. Top idea Bob im gona look into that more.

This is a weak answer. It was a yes or no question, and whisky answered, "Well maybe...". Whisky if you need more time to look into it please do so. Once you've formed an opinion please answer bob's question again with a more definitive answer, and preferably an explanation too.

DLG also brings up a really good point. Plus I find it hard to believe that anyone never even considered darla and ender being scum buddies at some point in this game.

I'll just have to redeem this slot by CATCHING ALL THE SCUMS MWAHAHA!

This seems a little scummy. In the few games that I've read through, the mafia will occassionally post something to the extent of, "Let's go town!" "I hope we catch a mafia!" etc in the hopes that they'll look more town by doing so.

One thing that is going on in this town is that your better of not posting, I say that as this is what Darla is doing now(even if these reasons are very genuine) and its working! Im not scum im town, ive told you who the main cuprits are Darla and the new llamarble.

And llamrble i do like your posts very nicely done.

1. If you're town, you wouldn't have any problems or fear posting. This is because you don't have to worry about keeping your stories straight; if your reasons are genuine you'll be able to explain them if questioned later.
2. This seems excessively flattering to llama. Not that llama's posts aren't good or anything, but why compliment them? Compare llama's posts to say... fishy's and this seems very out of place. Whisky did some similar buddy-buddy things with ender too. He pointed out the scummy things ender did, wrote it up to him being a newb, and then voted yos.
3. Whisky could you clarify what you mean by Darla and llamarble being the main culprits? Of posting too much?

Llama also seemed super weak with his opinion on Whisky:

Whiskey looks scummy, but we'll see how things appear once I'm fully caught up.

This post is very wishy-washy, with little reasoning to back it up. This "well maybe he could be, but i'm not sure..." attitude raises a red flag for me.

Vote: Bub Bidderskins

He is tunneling/voteparked on DBE but doesn't like the other members of the wagon on her.
He has lined up Bobsnox or Whiskey lynches for D2 in the event of a Darlatownflip.
I'm not really impressed by his case on DBE.
Yosarian is also kind of scummy looking.

Then again Whisky is also pretty bad.
Why does everyone in this town have a lynch lined up for after Darla/Ender???

1. This is again a wishy-washy stance on whisky.
2. Whisky also thinks yos is pretty scummy looking. Coincidence? I kind of doubt it.

Unvote

Sorry bob, I know I said unconditional, but right now I think Whisky is the better vote. If it's any consolation, you're still towards the top of my scum list (3rd, only after whiskey and llama).

Vote: Whisky

[DLG]

I don't see a lie though (please explain)

MoreWhisky started out defending your slot (ender241 then) as newbTown. He even stretched a case against Yosarian2 based on this read. After ender241 posted this

Am i right in thinking Darla is the next suspect of kill if i'm killed? If you all think Darla's mafia feel free to take me out to give proof to everyone else about Darla.

both MoreWhisky and I asked what ender241 meant.

What are you on about sir? are you sticking up for Darla? im really not sure.

The clear implication is that MoreWhisky was at least considering the possible connection. MoreWhisky then concludes this line of thought with this

Im actually starting to believe i got it wrong about ender.

I still think hes a newbie but Darla has used this to

there scum advantage.

DLG bolding

FOS ender for after we lynched Darla.

MoreWhisky's final thought on the matter is that DarlaBlueEyes is teamed with ender241 and is using ender241's bad play as a cover to protect them. He then just posted this

Darla and ender being scum together? wow i would have never thought of that but it seems to make sense. Top idea Bob im gona look into that more.

My conclusion is that this is a flat contradiction and lie. The question I am left considering is what possible motive is there for this. My conclusion is that MoreWhisky was trying to strengthen the DarlaBlueEyes wagon.

None of this lessens my suspicions towards DarlaBlueEyes. MoreWhisky has simply raced far past her in my view of probable scum through this lie.

[Llamarble]

@FF: Wow, if that's the abbreviated version...
Concision is pro-town.

When I say I'm going to redeem the slot by finding scum, that doesn't mean "Find me town now" it means "find me town after I help us lynch scum."

My opinions are changing rapidly as I review the available information because I just joined and have only read through fully once. Calling me scum because I say my read isn't solid due to my not having read the whole thread is ridiculous.

When I say players look like appetizing scumtargets it means they look like they would be easy to push a lynch on irrespective of alignment.

Poker now, more reading later.

[Fishythefish]

@fishy: I knew you'd replace in strong, that's good to see in this game. Do you have a strong opinion about bobsnox yet? He's been the second or third wagon most of the day.

I read bob fairly thoroughly, since he's a popular target. I don't remember what I concluded, but I know it wasn't overwhelming. I'll go through the arguments more carefully and actually comment on them (some time this weekend).

Further to this, I'm certainly not up for a bob lynch as things stand. DBE and ender are both vastly superior candidates for the noose. Something I would like clarification on:

@bob: I know you've talked a lot about this already, but I'd like to know exactly what you hoped to achieve, or what else you were thinking, when you asked first Darla and then FF to lynch you/try to lynch you. I'm not quite clear on what reactions you hoped for or expected, and how those reactions would help you determine their alignment and/or persuade others of your cases.

I've got some comments on MW, but I think I'll leave them until he answers DLG. Which he should most definitely do.