Mafia 124 - Dilemma Mafia (Day 6)

[MoreWhisky]

The reason i complimented Llamarble on his posts is because i do believe ender and Darla are on the same side,scum. So llamarble had/has an uphill struggle taking over from ender. And hes doing a nice job of it.

[flinter]

I'm very sorry. I have an important test monday, and I really have no time now. From monday on my activity should get better.

[Bub Bidderskins]

Vote: Bub Bidderskins

He is tunneling/voteparked on DBE but doesn't like the other members of the wagon on her.
He has lined up Bobsnox or Whiskey lynches for D2 in the event of a Darlatownflip.
I'm not really impressed by his case on DBE.
Yosarian is also kind of scummy looking.

Then again Whisky is also pretty bad.
Why does everyone in this town have a lynch lined up for after Darla/Ender???

Okay, so you said you're not impressed with the case on Darla. But you also said:

Huh, maybe I was totally wrong on my first pass and Darla is actually scum. I don't see much attempt to figure out who the scum are coming from her; she seems to care more about convincing others not to vote her. On meta perusal I can see her being scum, but it's not very clear. How soon is the deadline? I need to read more.

So you don't like my case on Darla, but you think she's scum? Seriously, the whole purpose of this post was to deflect attention away from the Darla wagon. Before Llamarble replaced in, I had the suspision of a Darla/ender team. That's why I asked ender about the DBE wagon, to see his response. Unfortunatly I never got one from ender, but I got a contradiction from his replacement, which all but confirms my theory.

FoS: Llamarble

[Empking]

Vote Count 13

1. bobsnox (1) - DarlaBlueEyes,
2. DarlaBlueEyes (4) - Bub Bidderskins, CMAR, MoreWhisky, flinter
3. flinter
4. DLG
5. Jahudo
6. Bub Bidderskins (1) - Llarmable
7. Fishythefish
8. Brokenscraps
9. CryMeARiver
10. Nikanor
11. Yosarian2
12. Final Fires
13. Llarmable (5) - Yosarian2, Jahudo, Nikanor, Fishythefish, bobsnox
14. MoreWhisky (2) - DLG, Final Fires

Not Voting: Brokenscraps,


With 14 alive its 8 to lynch.

[Empking]

Deadline in a week, just to remind you

[Nikanor]

It's probably a 13-person game with an extra townie added in so that Empking can skip the mini normal queue. I'm guessing three scum with two or three town PRs.
Only three more votes until we can lynch Llarmable.

[DLG]

@ MoreWhisky
Ignoring the lie does not make it go away.

Do you deny that you lied?
If no, then why did you lie?
If yes, please explain.

I will support any of three lynches for today: MoreWhisky, DarlaBlueEyes, Llamarble in that order of preference. At this point, I think MoreWhisky's lie and subsequesnt attempt to ignore it is the most significant scum tell of the game.

[Jahudo]

That is a pretty obvious contradiction from Whisky, in subsequent posts no less. I don't see another way to interpret it than he forgot he had made a Darla+ender connection.

And I have a bad feeling about how Whisky is framing the Darla case now, with her as a lurker.

One thing that is going on in this town is that your better of not posting, I say that as this is what Darla is doing now(even if these reasons are very genuine) and its working!

Darla went on V/LA recently, which can't be faulted, and she has made 24 posts, more than most of us. I also don't think she's been fluff posting either. So what is the accusation here?

unvote;
Vote: MoreWhisky

[Bub Bidderskins]

After some thought, I'm going to

unvote; vote: Llamarble

The Darla wagon seems to have fizzled out, and Llamarble's contradictions are perhaps even worse than ender's questionable play. As for more whisky, I don't know. I want to hear his response to some of the questions directed at him, though.

[Jahudo]

My opinions are changing rapidly as I review the available information because I just joined and have only read through fully once. Calling me scum because I say my read isn't solid due to my not having read the whole thread is ridiculous.

Having replaced into my share of games, I find this believable. And scum would be more concerned than town about flip-flopping, or about replacing in as a large wagon. Suspecting Darla from the beginning would have been a self-preservation move. Its harder to see that in this situation.

@Llamarble, why did you initially have Darla as a town read? Was that after a full or partial first read-through?

[brokenscraps]

@mod:2. DarlaBlueEyes (3) - Bub Bidderskins, CMAR, MoreWhisky, flinter; four voters and three vote

@brokenscraps: who is scum? Do you have any strong feelings about Darla or ender?

Darla's play had been suspicious at times, but I felt very uneasy about the way the wagon happened and the relative lack of scrutiny it was given. You express it very well:

Reading the game thinking "the scum don't want ender lynched" feels better than reading it thinking "the scum don't want Darla lynched". I think good reasons for voting ender have attracted remarkably little attention, which you wouldn't expect if the rival wagon was on scum. So I'm leaning ender, and my vote stays there.

Plus Ender's votes were horribly horrible and the lack of attention certainly seems suspicious.

Llamarble's play as replacement has also been extremely iffy, probably my favorite lynch ATM:

VOTE: Llamarble

bobsnox also looks bad, he purposely posted little at the start of the game and what he did post was without much content, justifies it by claiming his tactic is to sit back and watch, this would be all well and good if sitting back at the start of the day wasn't so much more beneficial for scum than town, there are some other things that I'll look into when I have the patience.

Whisky is still on my list, glad to see more wagoning though I prefer Llamarble right now.

I have some decent town reads though, strongest one of you (fish), FF and DLG are looking good too.

[DarlaBlueEyes]

reading back now, guys - though I have been fighting a fever all day so no promises of actually being able to put together somethng coherent lol

[Llamarble]

And so the scums reveal their growing fear by piling on... Muahahaha.

Darla was initially a town read because I don't see why Darlascum reveals townmeta for Ender the Easy Mislynch.
And her posts simply felt townie.
On review I didn't see enough scumhunting and saw a lot of self defense, though that may be simply due to having a wagon on her taking up her scumhunting time. Then I looked at her meta and found it somewhat ambiguous.
At this point I am leaning town on her again, especially since Bub Bidderskins is increasingly obvscum.
Elaboration on that last point next post.

[Final Fires]

@FF: Wow, if that's the abbreviated version...
Concision is pro-town.

When I say I'm going to redeem the slot by finding scum, that doesn't mean "Find me town now" it means "find me town after I help us lynch scum."

My opinions are changing rapidly as I review the available information because I just joined and have only read through fully once. Calling me scum because I say my read isn't solid due to my not having read the whole thread is ridiculous.

All my posts have been long, but earlier you said you thought I was town. If it's the length of post that bothers you, you would've accused me of being anti-town straight away. Saying it now just looks like an OMGUS.

I understand what you said, but it's still a somewhat common tell. If it had only been that post I would've mentioned it, but not found it that suspicious. That in conjunction with the ender (and you now)/whisky buddy system, and all the other points brought up is what prompted my vote.

One thing that is going on in this town is that your better of not posting, I say that as this is what Darla is doing now(even if these reasons are very genuine) and its working! Im not scum im town, ive told you who the main cuprits are Darla and the new llamarble.

And llamrble i do like your posts very nicely done.

Earlier you claimed you never thought of darla/ender being scum together. Now you're claiming you told us that darla and llamarble were "the main culprits"? Lie #2. You even said ender was newbtown, not scummy!

I am happy with either a llama lynch or a whisky lynch. I thought about it for a little, and I think that they're both scum. However, if we lynched whisky the only thig we learn is to lynch llama next. If we lynch llama, we can look back at how people reacted to the ender bandwagon. (And of course lynch whisky tommorow).

Unvote

Vote: Llama

One more to hammer.

[Llamarble]

@FF: I don't think making long posts is scummy. I think it is just less helpful. Being concise enables you to get across your ideas clearly.

Why I am convinced of Bidderscum:

Complete lack of towntells. I see nothing in his posting that looks difficult to believe from scum.

Tunneling / vote parking on Darla with a weak case.
The case he makes against Darla is that she was initially hesitant with voting and then starts moving her vote around. I see no reason for scum to be unwilling to have their vote on people, especially so far from lynchtime. This is totally inadequate to lynch somebody on, even D1. Those Darlactions read to me as townie not sure of reads due to lack of information so far, changing reads as more information became available.

I'll do the rest post by scummy post.

I really find whisky to be kind of strange. He has a... unique way of expressing himself that can be dificult to understand. Having said that, his vote on DBE looks really bad. Seriously, you vote for somebody because they say their on the phone? That's a seriously crappy reason to get on the biggest bandwagon.

Painting the bandwagon he supposedly believes is on scum as driven by opportunistic scum.

Nikanor is a VI plain and simple. A scum could not possibly be stupid enough to do what he did.

I'll post some more tomorrow, as my computer's acting up right now. Does that make me scummy Whisky?

Final fires seems to be a lot more pro-town now. I really like his post #130, and agree with him about both ender being suspicious and about whiskey being suspicious.

I'm kind of confused about the darla wagon here; she hasn't really done anything yet that looks suspicious to me. Can someone who's on the wagon explain why you're voting for her again?

I started the wagon, and I found her scummy for be non-commitant. She sort of buzzed two mini-wagons without voting on them. I also agree with you that Final Fires is looking like town. His honesty in some of his posts is what really makes me say that he's town.

Darla and Final Fires are scumbuddies. Calling it.

Unvote

Vote: Darla

Vote explanation fail. Please remedy. Do you mind providing any evidence for your claim? Or are you just calling shotgun on a fat, juicy wagon?

If we lynch DBE and she flips town, bobsnox and whisky should be suspects number one and two.

OMG LINING UP LYNCHES MUCH?

So far my biggest suspect is Bobsnox, who on review of most of his posts/iso as been a total sheep and hostile when his actions are questioned. This screams scum to me and one that can easilly slip under the radar with the Fires/Ender blunders and me, apparently. Looking back over it he gives me the most uneasy vibes of anyone, and if you look at his ISO you'll see why. I also have an uneasy read on Whiskey but he's actually scum hunting which is much more beneficial to town than what Bob has been doing.

No content - no original thought - hostility when questioned - expecting everyone to just accept his actions or shut up.

vote Bobsnox

I agree that bob looks really scummy if you assume that you are town. Since I do not hold that assumption, I do not feel that bobsnox is very scummy. However, if it so happens that you are town, then bob is extremely scummy. I've already said that. I feel bad repeating myself.

Continuing to build cases against people he supposedly thinks are helping him lynch scum.

Darla, this is the 3rd time you've changed your vote since page 4. Comparing this to the start, where you played very cautiously, and were unwilling to even place a (serious) vote, you're play style really seems to be changing. You spent a lot of time ISO'ing Striker and Whiskey, and then out of nowhere you vote Bob? I understand that you said you were going to do more ISO's, but still, that seems really strange to me.

My thoughts exactly.

Both of which are pretty much exactly what DLG said. His posting style seems to take a much more aggressive tone once Darla pointed suspicion towards striker and whiskey (potential chainsaw defense? It wasn't that dramatic, but there definitely was a slight change in the attitude of his posts). He is someone we should keep an eye on, but right now I kind of think it's more just his meta than anything else.

I didn't notice that, *goes back to check out bobsnox*.

That leaves only one thing left to do, and I apologize in advance for this out of game outburst, but I just have to do it...

GO PACKERS!!!

My vote will stay on DarlaBlueEyes. I think that she is the most probable scum, and I have already demonstrated why. However there is another reason to lynch her, and that is the fact that we will gain the most knowledge based on her lynch.

I'MMA DISTANCE MYSELF FROM A DARLA TOWNFLIP SOMEMORE.

If she turns out to be town, then that seriously implicates both whisky (who has recently disappeared) and bobsnox. If we lynch bob and he's town, then that does not strongly implicate Darla.

Ender has slipped off the radar as of late, and he needs to get back into the game.

@Ender: At this point who do you think is more likely scum: Darla or bobsnox?

Vote: Bub Bidderskins

He is tunneling/voteparked on DBE but doesn't like the other members of the wagon on her.
He has lined up Bobsnox or Whiskey lynches for D2 in the event of a Darlatownflip.
I'm not really impressed by his case on DBE.
Yosarian is also kind of scummy looking.

Then again Whisky is also pretty bad.
Why does everyone in this town have a lynch lined up for after Darla/Ender???

Okay, so you said you're not impressed with the case on Darla.

Way to not respond to my case on you

But you also said:

Huh, maybe I was totally wrong on my first pass and Darla is actually scum. I don't see much attempt to figure out who the scum are coming from her; she seems to care more about convincing others not to vote her. On meta perusal I can see her being scum, but it's not very clear. How soon is the deadline? I need to read more.

So you don't like my case on Darla, but you think she's scum?

As I've said, I replaced into this game a couple of days ago and am still figuring it out. I never thought your case against Darla was good, but I thought she might be scum for lack of scumhunting effort. At this point she looks town and you look like scum.

Seriously, the whole purpose of this post was to deflect attention away from the Darla wagon. Before Llamarble replaced in, I had the suspision of a Darla/ender team. That's why I asked ender about the DBE wagon, to see his response. Unfortunatly I never got one from ender, but I got a contradiction from his replacement, which all but confirms my theory.

FoS: Llamarble

After some thought, I'm going to

unvote; vote: Llamarble

The Darla wagon seems to have fizzled out, and Llamarble's contradictions are perhaps even worse than ender's questionable play. As for more whisky, I don't know. I want to hear his response to some of the questions directed at him, though.

OSHI HE CAUGHT ME, LYNCH HIM FAST GUYZ! THE WAGON I WAS PUSHING THAT STILL HAS A NUMBER OF VOTES ISN'T GOING ANYWHERE, BUT I DON'T ACTUALLY CARE ABOUT LYNCHING SCUM SO WHATEV! I'MMA FENCESIT ON MOREWHISKY SOME MORE EVEN THOUGH HE'S CONTINUING TO HELP VOTE PEOPLE I SUPPOSEDLY THINK ARE SCUM

[DLG]

One more to hammer.

I will hammer Llamarble. It is time for a claim. 24 hour countdown starts now.

MoreWhisky needs to answer regarding the lie charge.

[Llamarble]

@FF: Wow, if that's the abbreviated version...
Concision is pro-town.

When I say I'm going to redeem the slot by finding scum, that doesn't mean "Find me town now" it means "find me town after I help us lynch scum."

My opinions are changing rapidly as I review the available information because I just joined and have only read through fully once. Calling me scum because I say my read isn't solid due to my not having read the whole thread is ridiculous.

All my posts have been long, but earlier you said you thought I was town. If it's the length of post that bothers you, you would've accused me of being anti-town straight away. Saying it now just looks like an OMGUS.

I understand what you said, but it's still a somewhat common tell. If it had only been that post I would've mentioned it, but not found it that suspicious. That in conjunction with the ender (and you now)/whisky buddy system, and all the other points brought up is what prompted my vote.

One thing that is going on in this town is that your better of not posting, I say that as this is what Darla is doing now(even if these reasons are very genuine) and its working! Im not scum im town, ive told you who the main cuprits are Darla and the new llamarble.

And llamrble i do like your posts very nicely done.

Earlier you claimed you never thought of darla/ender being scum together. Now you're claiming you told us that darla and llamarble were "the main culprits"? Lie #2. You even said ender was newbtown, not scummy!

I am happy with either a llama lynch or a whisky lynch. I thought about it for a little, and I think that they're both scum. However, if we lynched whisky the only thig we learn is to lynch llama next. If we lynch llama, we can look back at how people reacted to the ender bandwagon. (And of course lynch whisky tommorow

WHY ARE YOU PEOPLE TRYING TO DECIDE TOMORROW'S LYNCH TODAY... ALSO DID YOU JUST REVEAL KNOWLEDGE OF MY/WHISKY'S BEING TOWN? NOW I HAVE TO REREAD YOU.

).

Unvote

Vote: Llama

One more to hammer.

[Llamarble]

@DLG: WHY WOULD YOU BE WILLING TO ACCEPT THE LYNCH OF ANY OTHER PLAYER THAN ONE YOU CAUGHT LYING? YOUR PLAY IS CEASING TO MAKE SENSE FROM A TOWN PERSPECTIVE. AND WE HAVE A WEEK LEFT AND I HAVE PLENTY LEFT TO SAY, SO NOBODY HAMMER ME WITHOUT AT LEAST GIVING ME TIME TO TELL YOU WHO ALL THE SCUM ARE.

ALSO RESPOND TO MY CASE ON BIDDERSKINS; IT'S EASILY THE STRONGEST PRESENTED AGAINST ANYONE SO WHY ARE YOU IGNORING IT?

[Llamarble]

Huh, I still don't see where Morewhisky is contradiction-lying (please make this clear somebody who thinks he is).
But he has done absolutely pitiful scumhunting, and is bandwagoning like a champ. So he's a likely Bidderbuddy.
That would make sense with Bidderscum's play; Lynch town today, FOS a buddy and a townie for tomorrow.

[Llamarble]

Also somebody please tell me what the case against me is; All I see is that people don't like my reads changing as I think more about the thread. If you could summarize the case against Ender so I can attempt to explain his play as well that would also be useful. Right now people seem to pretty much be bandwagoning me for no reason.

[bobsnox]

Someone sounds desperate...

it would be cool if a vig would target Whisky tonight

[bobsnox]

@bob: I know you've talked a lot about this already, but I'd like to know exactly what you hoped to achieve, or what else you were thinking, when you asked first Darla and then FF to lynch you/try to lynch you. I'm not quite clear on what reactions you hoped for or expected, and how those reactions would help you determine their alignment and/or persuade others of your cases.

I wanted to see their justifications.

[bobsnox]

VOTE: Llamarble

bobsnox also looks bad, he purposely posted little at the start of the game and what he did post was without much content, justifies it by claiming his tactic is to sit back and watch, this would be all well and good if sitting back at the start of the day wasn't so much more beneficial for scum than town, there are some other things that I'll look into when I have the patience.

Whisky is still on my list, glad to see more wagoning though I prefer Llamarble right now.

k so I'm bussing Llamarble and possibly Whisky

[Llamarble]

Meh, FF is still town I guess.
Also irritation is different from desperation.

[Yosarian2]

And so the scums reveal their growing fear by piling on... Muahahaha.

who are you calling scum here? Brokenscrapes?