Mini 1117 - Manhattan Special - [GAME OVER]

[el simo]

Sup bitches?

Will read thread tomorrow. Just checking in for now.

Welcome

[el simo]

I lose regular access from now, I'm going into the complete unknown so I have no idea when I will get regular activity back, will try my darnest to get here from a library or something but eee don't know what the situation will be.

Please be lenient mod I don't want to be replaced <3

[CrazyQuestions]

Yeah I'm finding it hard to disagree, ignoring all of the diddly squat that has happened between me and CQ I'm willing to call him the third man in the party just based on how hard he seems to be trying to not vote SW.

Do you think I will be terrified by such an argument?

1. The debate with me is your responsibility.
2. The debate with me is initiated on your side.
3. The debate with me is based on weak arguments.
4. You tried to point out to Grey and me before entering the wagon.
5. You entered the wagon just agreeing with somebody.
6. You kept inside the wagon insisting on my debate and avoiding any scumhunting.

I will vote SW when I consider it adequate. I have compromised my vote and the circumstances have not changed. I just got information from Grey, I am getting information from you now. I want more information from Strike's and Saporo's positions. Meanwhile, you just insisting in bluff...

[CrazyQuestions]

CQ: those 3 quotes? I never wrote them.

??

I really tried. I read back them. If you mean something like "I was joking and I already understood the message by Empking", I more or less understood that and just clarified what Empking was saying according to my view. If this is what you mean, please stop spamming. If not, ask directly because I do not understand what you mean.

[Empking]

Yeah, CQ, what's up with (as far as I can tell) making up those quotes?

[ShadoWolf]

@Shadow
1. Since you simply deny the parroting without any particular argument and avoid the other issue, I cannot comment.
2.

I am interested in slow play, as it's easier to analyse.

. I already covered that in my analysis. Since you do not analyze it, I cannot comment.
3. Since you simply deny the parroting without any particular argument, I cannot comment.

Your posts are sometimes quite confusing to read. No offence intended.

If you find one of my posts confusing, please mention which. I will rewrite it.

While I can appreciate the works of Nietzsche just as much as the next man, this is so irrelevant it pains me to respond to it. Try to keep on topic, CQ.

1. Why do you feel compelled to comment this post? If you have decided to "scumhunt" or "participate", you better start with the dozens of posts before this, as obviously, isolated posts do not tell much.
2. It is not irrelevant. It is very relevant because I basically considered alpha-IS (god) dead in terms of our particular tennis game.

1-1. I didn't like that you called it parroting, but I can understand why you feel it might've been parroting. The other issue (my vote) was fairly self-explanatory, as it was a random vote with a little joke tacked on.
1-2. You didn't address my first point of this line of thinking:

You call my argument "Extreme" and "Ridiculous", but Empking did actually say that he thought he had found scum in his post, roughly 10 pages in.

1-3. Once again, I just feel that you're trying to misrepresent me here, by calling it parroting. Also, you didn't respond to this:

I didn't try to defend lurkers, I just think that certain players are/were trying to push a lynch on lurkers, which is an easy lynch to push, and rarely finds scum this early in the game.

2-1. I will certainly take you up on that next time I see one I don't understand.
3-1. I commented that post because it seemed so random and crazy that I just had to bring this up.
3-2. Why did you have to use metaphor in such a confusing way? Why didn't you just say why you "consider him dead"

[Internet Stranger]

I think she is saying that she doesnt want to listen to me anymore because it reflects back upon her just how wrong she is about everything.
Sorry Shado, I see what youre doing here. As commendable as it is, youre still the scummiest of all here. You got caught, youre trying to be humble now, but its a little late for that.

Its almost like Crazy is trying to over her tracks now.

[CrazyQuestions]

1-1. I didn't like that you called it parroting, but I can understand why you feel it might've been parroting. The other issue (my vote) was fairly self-explanatory, as it was a random vote with a little joke tacked on.

Since you simply provide no particular argument about absence of parroting in your contributions, I cannot comment.
Since you do not discuss the fact that you combine a random vote after an accusation in the same post, I cannot comment.

1-2. You didn't address my first point of this line of thinking:

You call my argument "Extreme" and "Ridiculous", but Empking did actually say that he thought he had found scum in his post, roughly 10 pages in.

I interpreted Empking as hyperbolic much before he pointed out. His own words fit with such description. Your argument is therefore extreme as you equate hyperbole to reality and attack him.

1-3. Once again, I just feel that you're trying to misrepresent me here, by calling it parroting. Also, you didn't respond to this:

I didn't try to defend lurkers, I just think that certain players are/were trying to push a lynch on lurkers, which is an easy lynch to push, and rarely finds scum this early in the game.

Since you simply provide no particular argument about absence of parroting in your contributions, I cannot comment.
Why do I need to respond to such an argument? I have not said anywhere that you defended lurkers.

3-1. I commented that post because it seemed so random and crazy that I just had to bring this up.

The post is random only if you do not read the previous ones.

3-2. Why did you have to use metaphor in such a confusing way? Why didn't you just say why you "consider him dead"

[/quote]

My quote is much more accurate than your words. Thus I used my quote.

[ShadoWolf]

Its almost like Crazy is trying to over her tracks now.

You mean because she's attacking me where she wasn't before?

[CrazyQuestions]

By the way, I want to point out how curious is that ElSimio has been keeping his useless debate with me, since he is at the same time considering Shadow scum and considering that I was mud flinging when I said that Shadow was parroting me (before anybody discussed Shadow). Why would I want people to mud flinging Shadow and lead people to "take the hook and run with it" on my own mate without having any credit for it? Quite amazing !! And obviously, curious means scummy here. I think this is pretty consistent with my description of him, and the only scum wagoning. IS is at least coherent in his equally useless debate.

That reinforces my view of the wagon. Which is our seventh vote?

[ShadoWolf]

1-1. I didn't like that you called it parroting, but I can understand why you feel it might've been parroting. The other issue (my vote) was fairly self-explanatory, as it was a random vote with a little joke tacked on.

Since you simply provide no particular argument about absence of parroting in your contributions, I cannot comment.
Since you do not discuss the fact that you combine a random vote after an accusation in the same post, I cannot comment.

I felt we were still in RVS at that point, so I made a random vote.

1-2. You didn't address my first point of this line of thinking:

You call my argument "Extreme" and "Ridiculous", but Empking did actually say that he thought he had found scum in his post, roughly 10 pages in.

I interpreted Empking as hyperbolic much before he pointed out. His own words fit with such description. Your argument is therefore extreme as you equate hyperbole to reality and attack him.

I didn't interpret his reads as hyperbole, I took them totally seriously. There was no reason not to.

1-3. Once again, I just feel that you're trying to misrepresent me here, by calling it parroting. Also, you didn't respond to this:

I didn't try to defend lurkers, I just think that certain players are/were trying to push a lynch on lurkers, which is an easy lynch to push, and rarely finds scum this early in the game.

Since you simply provide no particular argument about absence of parroting in your contributions, I cannot comment.
Why do I need to respond to such an argument? I have not said anywhere that you defended lurkers.

3. When pressured to participate after lurking, he mixes a "defence" of lurking as null-tell with an attack to the player who favours wagoning lurkers (Grey) at the same time that Grey has disfavoured the player with whom Shadow is discussing (Empking).

Sure looks like you said I defended lurking.

3-1. I commented that post because it seemed so random and crazy that I just had to bring this up.

The post is random only if you do not read the previous ones.

Now you're accusing me of not reading the thread?

3-2. Why did you have to use metaphor in such a confusing way? Why didn't you just say why you "consider him dead"

My quote is much more accurate than your words. Thus I used my quote.

Your quote contributed nothing to the thread except beginning this line of questioning, which isn't helpful to anyone.

[CrazyQuestions]

I didn't interpret his reads as hyperbole, I took them totally seriously. There was no reason not to.

He basically took his initial observation on Grey to signal Strike, Grey and You. You used big capital letters to transform his observation into a big shouting. He obviously replied with a different version provoking you. It was clearly a hyperbole...

Sure looks like you said I defended lurking.

How DEFENCE OF LURKING AS NULL-TELL looks like DEFEND LURKERS??

Now you're accusing me of not reading the thread?

You catalogue my post as random. I clarify it is not, and I interpret why you call it random. It is a very reasonable interpretation, especially after you said "You're right, TL, I've been letting some RL stuff get me down, so I'm not putting myself fully into this game. I'm sorry, and I will endeavour to try much harder in this game from now on. My sincerest apologies, everyone." I find you just glanced to the new posts without reading the past ones in detail, and decided to answer a bit the latter ones.

Your quote contributed nothing to the thread except beginning this line of questioning, which isn't helpful to anyone.

If the line of questioning does not help anyone, why did you start it?

[ShadoWolf]

I didn't interpret his reads as hyperbole, I took them totally seriously. There was no reason not to.

He basically took his initial observation on Grey to signal Strike, Grey and You. You used big capital letters to transform his observation into a big shouting. He obviously replied with a different version provoking you. It was clearly a hyperbole...

Sub, Grey and SW calling it now.

That's his quote. I didn't transform his observation in any way. Stop trying to misrep me.

Sure looks like you said I defended lurking.

How DEFENCE OF LURKING AS NULL-TELL looks like DEFEND LURKERS??

Who lurks? Lurkers. By that logic, I defend lurking, I defend lurkers. I didn't defend them, I just said that it was a null-tell, and that we shouldn't analyse lurkers yet, as it was too early in the game to do so.

Now you're accusing me of not reading the thread?

You catalogue my post as random. I clarify it is not, and I interpret why you call it random. It is a very reasonable interpretation, especially after you said "You're right, TL, I've been letting some RL stuff get me down, so I'm not putting myself fully into this game. I'm sorry, and I will endeavour to try much harder in this game from now on. My sincerest apologies, everyone." I find you just glanced to the new posts without reading the past ones in detail, and decided to answer a bit the latter ones.

I have been reading the thread, but I can see where you're coming from.

Your quote contributed nothing to the thread except beginning this line of questioning, which isn't helpful to anyone.

If the line of questioning does not help anyone, why did you start it?

You started it by using a quote that seemed totally irrelevant. I questioned it, you explained it. I still think the quote was unnecessary though.

[Fugitive]

Okay, I've been reading this thread for just over and hour and I'm in the middle of page 5. This was more of an undertaking than I suspected. The amount of "family quarrels," over-analysing, and epeen rhetoric is making this a slow process. What this means to you guys is that you're probably/almost definitely not going to get a post of substance from me today as I have shit I need to do and can't devote 3 hours just to reading, let alone whatever time it takes to formulate a post on the players.

------------------

In an attempt to make this post not worthless though (even though it probably will be since I've only read the first third of the game. I'm at the part where Shado just got 3 quick votes):

I'd like to say that I'm not seeing a CQ town. Seems like a lot of random questions to appear helpful and over-analysis to the max. I'm not really sure on the meta behind her, but I take it she's a fairly big name player, but I'm not understanding anyone calling her town. Not sure if this is a scum read necessarily, but definitely neutral / neutral-scummy.

IS is another big name, I suppose? I'm having problems reading that one. Like a lot of problems. We'll just call this a neutral read for now.

Shadow is someone I've played with a lot, and I'm not getting scum-vibe from his direction. He's playing his standard town meta. Granted, I've never seen Shado scum, but he tends to get mislynched a lot because he plays REALLY scummy town. I'm not trying to excuse his play, but I'd like that fact to be known and taken into consideration.

Grey seems town to me.

el simo seems to be playing differently from last game where he seemed pretty obv town, but then again, I was scum that game so I was looking at him differently. His posts seemed more genuine and helpful though, he just seems a little unhelpful this game.

Emp seems town too, but I'm more flexible on this read.

TL seems... ugh...

Substrike is a neutral read at the moment. I do appreciate the calm and helpful play, though.

Everyone else hasn't posted enough at the point I'm at to have a read.

[CrazyQuestions]

I didn't transform his observation in any way. Stop trying to misrep me.

a) He basically took his initial observation on Grey to signal Strike, Grey and You. (POST 16)

Sub, Grey and SW calling it now.

b) You used big capital letters to transform his observation into a big shouting. (POST 18)

Read this as:

EVERYONE WHO DISAGREES WITH ME IS MAFIA!!!

c) He obviously replied with a different version provoking you. It was clearly a hyperbole... (POST 19)

A better quote would be.

GREY AND EVERYONE WHO TRIES TO DEFEND GREY IS MAFIA!!!

Where did I MISREP you????

Who lurks? Lurkers. By that logic, I defend lurking, I defend lurkers. I didn't defend them, I just said that it was a null-tell, and that we shouldn't analyse lurkers yet, as it was too early in the game to do so.

a) POST 132

What's the benefit of lynching a lurker?

I've always found lurking to be a null-tell

. Both sides do it equally.

b) POST 176: "defence" of lurking as null-tell

Did I say you defended lurkers?
Did I MISREP you?

Now you're accusing me of not reading the thread?

You started it by using a quote that seemed totally irrelevant. I questioned it, you explained it. I still think the quote was unnecessary though.

How does a quote start a line of questioning?? The person who questions the quote is the one who starts "the line of questioning". My quote was part of a different line of debate. You took it and started a line of questioning about its relevance. I still think you were paying much attention.

---

The answers are highly unsatisfactory. I almost thought he was giving bad answers to fake a false debate with me. This is probably just a present for IS. I hardly think we can get more, though I yet want to hear SAPORO and STRIKE before somebody decides this was enough and hammers.

Vote: Shadow

After all the verbal excesses of IS, do not say you didnt notice WE ARE AT L-1.

[ShadoWolf]

After all the verbal excesses of IS, do not say you didnt notice WE ARE AT L-1.

I genuinely did not notice we're at L-1.

Re-read it. We're not at L-1. Unless that was a vote from you, in which case, we're now at L-1.

[CrazyQuestions]

I'd like to say that I'm not seeing a CQ town.

Happy to know. Let's see why.

Seems like a lot of random questions to appear helpful and over-analysis to the max.

Which of my questions are "random" ?
Which of my analysis is over ?
Please, quote...

Umm, wait, I better ask you to META me, as I probably overanalyze. The question is where you get I do that to "appear helpful". Also, If I do these things to appear helpful...ah shit, empking already discussed this...ok, read the post where Empking says im both good and bad scum and also townie

p.s. I apologize in advance. He may quote questions and analysis that I CONSIDERED non-random and relevant. I will obviously answer why. It could be the case that a majority of people think they are not. It could also be the case that some people do not even understand complicated reasonings on why I considered them as such.

I'm not really sure on the meta behind her, but I take it she's a fairly big name player

Your only observation on me is a psychological trait and style, so I think you should have done some meta. Otherwise, I do not see where the scumminess may come from. I am not any big name player. It is my first of these games after a couple of newbies, and I am pretty sure that I can easily be seen as an analytical player with hardly a basic knowledge of theory and standards in the game.

[CrazyQuestions]

vote SHADOW

WE ARE AT L-1

[el simo]

Post for more time with prod woo. Leaving in 30 minutes.

[GreyICE]

Pretty sure we'll be lynching town here, folks. Not at all comfortable with Shado's posts, but this has happened before, and frankly he's too goddamn incompetent to fake his incompetent behavior that got him killed last time so he can point and say "look, I always act like this as town and get lynched for it."

I'm sure IS or EMP will call me out for this, but frankly, whatever. Were I a gambling man, I would bet he flips town.

Would you bet your lynch on him flipping scum, EMP?

[ShadoWolf]

he's too goddamn incompetent

I don't know whether to be offended or not.

[Empking]

Pretty sure we'll be lynching town here, folks. Not at all comfortable with Shado's posts, but this has happened before, and frankly he's too goddamn incompetent to fake his incompetent behavior that got him killed last time so he can point and say "look, I always act like this as town and get lynched for it."

I'm sure IS or EMP will call me out for this, but frankly, whatever. Were I a gambling man, I would bet he flips town.

Would you bet your lynch on him flipping scum, EMP?

No because then my expectation would be 1/100 My Lynches.

[ShadoWolf]

Vote: Empking

Town would've taken that bet.

[TheLonging]

incompetent

well jesus I think he's scum but don't insult

[Empking]

Vote: Empking

Town would've taken that bet.