Mini 1117 - Manhattan Special - [GAME OVER]

[GreyICE]

Pretty sure we'll be lynching town here, folks. Not at all comfortable with Shado's posts, but this has happened before, and frankly he's too goddamn incompetent to fake his incompetent behavior that got him killed last time so he can point and say "look, I always act like this as town and get lynched for it."

I'm sure IS or EMP will call me out for this, but frankly, whatever. Were I a gambling man, I would bet he flips town.

Would you bet your lynch on him flipping scum, EMP?

No because then my expectation would be 1/100 My Lynches.

Yeah, it is kinda hard to take that bet when you know he's going to flip town, isn't it?

I'd vote for you, but... wait. I am already!

[Substrike22]

@ Shadow, I don't think town would've necessarily taken that bet given the context of how it was asked. It sets up EMP for one of those "well if you're scum, say 100% and it flips to be true, then you're scum, or maybe you're scum and going to play dumb by providing a random statistic" type arguments. Therefore I find your reason for voting Emp to be self-preservation. Or do you actually want to explain why you think town would've taken that bet, without using WIFOM.

[Substrike22]

Same question at GreyICE, too, now that he's joined the WIFOM argument wagon.

[Substrike22]

I think the scum teams will flip as follows, for the record:

CQ/Empking/Lurker?

Shadow/GreyICE/Lurker?

[ShadoWolf]

@ Shadow, I don't think town would've necessarily taken that bet given the context of how it was asked. It sets up EMP for one of those "well if you're scum, say 100% and it flips to be true, then you're scum, or maybe you're scum and going to play dumb by providing a random statistic" type arguments. Therefore I find your reason for voting Emp to be self-preservation. Or do you actually want to explain why you think town would've taken that bet, without using WIFOM.

Scum would be more cautious to take the bet, already knowing the outcome, and knowing that they'd suffer heavy scrutiny because of it. Town wouldn't know the risks, but would be "certain they've caught scum", and so would take the bet. Yes, it's WIFOM, but it's entirely based in WIFOM territory, there's no argument that can be made that isn't WIFOM here. Caution is a scum-tell, in my eyes.

P-EDIT: "I think that one side, or the other is scum". Cool fence-sitting, bro. Pick a team which you think is scum.

[ShadoWolf]

EBWOP: How was my vote "Self Preservation"?

[CrazyQuestions]

incompetent

well jesus I think he's scum but don't insult

Bet you one mafiascum dollar that Empking wants you to write FAKE-INSULT instead of insult.

I think the scum teams will flip as follows, for the record:

CQ/Empking/Lurker?

Shadow/GreyICE/Lurker?

I note that you are pretty convinced that the scum team/teams will have 3 members.
You are skipping Simio in your analysis. And yourself, but well, that I would not expect different.

Next. Saporo, your turn to talk.

[Empking]

SW: What do members of the town gain by accepting that bet?

Oh yeah, I'd like to mention that I don't buy the SW is incompetent argument. That doesn't explain why SW leapt to Grey's defence (which is reciprocated by Grey), the fact that SW will make claims that are the height of inanity but only if Grey says it first and all the rest of the very compelling associative tells.

[GreyICE]

Same question at GreyICE, too, now that he's joined the WIFOM argument wagon.

I think it's simple. I think EMPKing has been pretty obv scum all game. He wants a quicklynch so he can get to the night time and start killing the few people in the town who worry him, then coast to victory while CrazyQuestions alienates half the town into lynching her, IS keeps adding inches to his dick rather than playing the game (I swear, half his shit is about how fucking cool he is), and the lurkscum lurk their way to lurkery.

Shado, not happy that you think that one side or the other is scum - this could be town on town violence (even though it's not because EMPKing is scum, and CQ is town, so bah on your dumb list Substrike). But, that fits with what I've seen of you and other players, so it doesn't worry me.

Substrike, want some wine? Why would I, as scum, come in and defend a scumbuddy who is at L-1 and whose play has done nothing to suggest that he won't get lynched at some time in the future anyway? Wouldn't I do better to take the town points by coming in, making an argument of sorts out of his posts, and dropping the hammer? There's a reason they call it a bus.

You can make the argument that I'm scum and coming in to earn the town points on someone who I know will flip town. It's not a terrible argument, if you want me to be scum - but you have to unvote Shado at that point. Because he's town.

Or you can make an argument that I'm town who doesn't feel like lynching town today when there's obvscum being obvious.

Pedit: Crazy, there's no fucking way we're playing a 9:4 unless the town has more superpowers than the lovechild of Jesus and Wonder Woman. I guess it could be 9:2:2 but less setup speculation and more focus on EMPscum.

[GreyICE]

SW: What do members of the town gain by accepting that bet?

Oh yeah, I'd like to mention that I don't buy the SW is incompetent argument. That doesn't explain why SW leapt to Grey's defence (which is reciprocated by Grey), the fact that SW will make claims that are the height of inanity but only if Grey says it first and all the rest of the very compelling associative tells.

And I don't buy the argument that you're town. Because you're scum.

[CrazyQuestions]

@Strike: It is funny that you do not write the name of SORROW in any of the teams explicitly, since you are voting for him
Also, do you want to state openly your position on shadow?

[Empking]

SW: What do members of the town gain by accepting that bet?

Oh yeah, I'd like to mention that I don't buy the SW is incompetent argument. That doesn't explain why SW leapt to Grey's defence (which is reciprocated by Grey), the fact that SW will make claims that are the height of inanity but only if Grey says it first and all the rest of the very compelling associative tells.

And I don't buy the argument that you're town. Because you're scum.

Still monotone but I'll bite. What argument that I'm town?

Sub: Grey has been suporting SW all game from when he thought that was the best play as scum. He continues doing so in order to not look inconsitent or engaging in opportunistic scum bussing.

[ShadoWolf]

Shado, not happy that you think that one side or the other is scum - this could be town on town violence (even though it's not because EMPKing is scum, and CQ is town, so bah on your dumb list Substrike). But, that fits with what I've seen of you and other players, so it doesn't worry me.

You misunderstand me. I was quoting what I read from that post, not my scumlists from that post.

[CrazyQuestions]

Why would I, as scum, come in and defend a scumbuddy who is at L-1 and whose play has done nothing to suggest that he won't get lynched at some time in the future anyway? Wouldn't I do better to take the town points by coming in, making an argument of sorts out of his posts, and dropping the hammer? There's a reason they call it a bus.

Maybe because there are no points for you

Crazy,

there's no fucking way

we're playing a 9:4 unless the town has more superpowers than the lovechild of Jesus and Wonder Woman.

I guess it could be 9:2:2

but

less setup speculation

and more focus on EMPscum.

The first bolded sentence suggests a negative tone against my post/argument.
However, the underlined sentence suggests my argument was valid. Thus, the way you wrote the full sequence of words and the tone of them is quite odd.
The second bolded sentence is a complete manipulation of my words. I have not speculated about the setup. I have noted how Strike was pretty convinced of its structure.

[GreyICE]

SW: What do members of the town gain by accepting that bet?

Oh yeah, I'd like to mention that I don't buy the SW is incompetent argument. That doesn't explain why SW leapt to Grey's defence (which is reciprocated by Grey), the fact that SW will make claims that are the height of inanity but only if Grey says it first and all the rest of the very compelling associative tells.

And I don't buy the argument that you're town. Because you're scum.

Still monotone but I'll bite. What argument that I'm town?

I have no idea. I've read your ISO. I've read your posts. You do contribute a lot, that's more town than scum usually, but what you contributed... jesus. There isn't a bit of it that makes a lick of sense. I don't see any argument that you're town.

Post #180 for instance doesn't even come close to making sense in this or any other universe. You're chip-on-the-sholdering anyone who gets near you.

But lets say I humor you. Lets say you're town. Why are you pushing the Shado bus so hard when you're not certain he'll flip scum? Just... why? What is the point of pushing this wagon to the level you have, and then backing off at the last second? Aren't you sure it will yield results? Or did you push around for a few vulnerable targets, and then decide to lynch them in whatever order?

I mean is this even sensible? You'll push this bus to his death, but aren't certain he'll flip scum?

[Internet Stranger]

It still comes down to the fact Shado is our scum. The evidence has been persistent the entire day. It is now that Shado realizes that its too late, he has been caught, and there isnt much he can do other than play sheep and hope we find him cute and walk away.

Crazy has done an entire about face when it comes to Shadow after I called her out for defending him. Im still keeping an eye on her.

You all can continue to argue amongst yourselves all you want. I know that my tally for caught scum is about to go +1.

[Empking]

And I don't buy the argument that you're town.

What argument that I'm town?

I have no idea

[Substrike22]

CQ. most closed normal games on here have 3 scum. Ask anyone here, or go look up three or four games on the mini normal list and you'll see. I've never actually played in a mini normal that didn't have three scum.

Secondly, regarding the fence sitting, I'm not choosing a side yet because I'm analyzing relationships, Shadow. You're not really in a position here to make demands of me choosing sides at this point, because now you're starting to act just as scummy as Emp. For that reason, I feel confident in this hammer. Regarding the Sorrow thing I'm debating either switching my vote to Emp or hammer Shadow, based on the discussion I'm currently having with Shadow. That's why the vote didn't move in that post. The "Lurker?" also can apply to him though, if you're looking for consistency.

GreyICE that is indeed some delicious wine in post 333.

Shadow you're not really in a position to demand me to take a side. Your play, if you are town, has been far below optimal, at best. Your last second vote on Emp looks like an unjustified, kind of randomly excused way to attempt a last-minute counter wagon. While this is a null-tell, the manner in which you did it is extremely suspect. In fact, if Emp was not such a scum read to me (entirely independent of your "wifom" point above), I would hammer you for that post outright. I indeed may.

It's self preservation because you're attempting to pull a rabbit out of a hat and then accuse that rabbit of being mafia just because the rabbit didn't want to bet on whether or not you could make it disappear again. Then you're trying to work that into a much bigger deal then it should be. I do think Grey has a point, however, that Emp might've been hedging his bet by saying he wasn't sure. However, I can honestly say that I express my own doubts when I am town and asked to "predict" something. At the end of the day there's really only one way to find out, unless you're scum. Under your logical reasoning, it is just as scummy for someone to predict that someone is town, or someone is scum, because if they're correct, then tomorrow you'll be saying "Oh, look, he got it right, he had information we didn't, lynch him, lynch him!"

And for whomever asked me for my read on El Simo, it's not a scum read so that's all you need to know at this point. Simo is also hard to read at the moment because most of his posts involve his moving. Something is off about him, from my previous game with him, but I'm not calling that a scum-tell

at this time

. Not going to give people shopping lists on whom I think is town.

UNVOTE: MS
VOTE: ShadoWolf

p-edit: Ninja'd by the above 6 posts.

[Substrike22]

And Crazy you're really grasping for straws on that 3 scum thing, I want everyone else to note that.

[Substrike22]

Shado, not happy that you think that one side or the other is scum - this could be town on town violence (even though it's not because EMPKing is scum, and CQ is town, so bah on your dumb list Substrike). But, that fits with what I've seen of you and other players, so it doesn't worry me.

You misunderstand me. I was quoting what I read from that post, not my scumlists from that post.

This quote was clearly fucked up as I clearly did not call my own list "bah."

[GreyICE]

And I don't buy the argument that you're town.

What argument that I'm town?

I have no idea

Oh please, you've made several posts insisting you were town, and I STILL don't buy that there's any argument. You don't want to respond to what I'm saying? Ooh, go do a post #180 and criticize my grammar mistakes. Scum.

[ShadoWolf]

It still comes down to the fact Shado is our scum. The evidence has been persistent the entire day. It is now that Shado realizes that its too late, he has been caught, and there isnt much he can do other than play sheep and hope we find him cute and walk away.

Crazy has done an entire about face when it comes to Shadow after I called her out for defending him. Im still keeping an eye on her.

You all can continue to argue amongst yourselves all you want. I know that my tally for caught scum is about to go +1.

Haha, you're so wrong it hurts.

[GreyICE]

CQ. most closed normal games on here have 3 scum. Ask anyone here, or go look up three or four games on the mini normal list and you'll see. I've never actually played in a mini normal that didn't have three scum.

Secondly, regarding the fence sitting, I'm not choosing a side yet because I'm analyzing relationships, Shadow. You're not really in a position here to make demands of me choosing sides at this point, because now you're starting to act just as scummy as Emp. For that reason, I feel confident in this hammer. Regarding the Sorrow thing I'm debating either switching my vote to Emp or hammer Shadow, based on the discussion I'm currently having with Shadow. That's why the vote didn't move in that post. The "Lurker?" also can apply to him though, if you're looking for consistency.

GreyICE that is indeed some delicious wine in post 333.

Shadow you're not really in a position to demand me to take a side. Your play, if you are town, has been far below optimal, at best. Your last second vote on Emp looks like an unjustified, kind of randomly excused way to attempt a last-minute counter wagon. While this is a null-tell, the manner in which you did it is extremely suspect. In fact, if Emp was not such a scum read to me (entirely independent of your "wifom" point above), I would hammer you for that post outright. I indeed may.

It's self preservation because you're attempting to pull a rabbit out of a hat and then accuse that rabbit of being mafia just because the rabbit didn't want to bet on whether or not you could make it disappear again. Then you're trying to work that into a much bigger deal then it should be. I do think Grey has a point, however, that Emp might've been hedging his bet by saying he wasn't sure. However, I can honestly say that I express my own doubts when I am town and asked to "predict" something. At the end of the day there's really only one way to find out, unless you're scum. Under your logical reasoning, it is just as scummy for someone to predict that someone is town, or someone is scum, because if they're correct, then tomorrow you'll be saying "Oh, look, he got it right, he had information we didn't, lynch him, lynch him!"

And for whomever asked me for my read on El Simo, it's not a scum read so that's all you need to know at this point. Simo is also hard to read at the moment because most of his posts involve his moving. Something is off about him, from my previous game with him, but I'm not calling that a scum-tell

at this time

. Not going to give people shopping lists on whom I think is town.

UNVOTE: MS
VOTE: ShadoWolf

p-edit: Ninja'd by the above 6 posts.

Well, you just dropped the fucking hammer, so looks like we get to see whose right. I guess I can't complain too much, he's been fucking worthless, but I still think you just lynched town. Good goddamn job. Egg on my face if I'm wrong, but I don't think I am.

[Empking]

And I don't buy the argument that you're town.

What argument that I'm town?

I have no idea

Oh please, you've made several posts insisting you were town,

Let's see a couple of examples then.

and I STILL don't buy that there's any argument. You don't want to respond to what I'm saying? Ooh, go do a post #180 and criticize my grammar mistakes. Scum.

I can't really respond to what you're saying when what you're saying is empty rhetoric.

[GreyICE]

I can lynch you though, because you're fucking scum.

So, EMP, it's hammer time. We're just waiting for the flip. I'm still defending my scumbuddy here in your book, right?

Wanna take my bet on how the flip will turn out now?