Newbie 1052 - Endgame

[Neuky]

Mute / Dawg - The whole wall of text war between these two has actually damaged the game.
That's just my opinion.
It affects the game in that its harder to identify the cruiser/lurker from the newbies who are just overwhelmed with those WOT's..
Scum are at an advantage at this moment I reckon, as their job is to confuse town, but sit back when town do it themselves...

I agree with one of the new votes, but don't want to place my vote just yet - again - all to do with bloomin' time to get it done..

(more later - off for dinner!)

[Neuky]

@Stels - you did say earlier that when you give advice its generally for everyone - can you explain how this post is in the interests of town?

@Stels: I haven't lied yet, and I don't intend to start now. Certainly not to claim to scum for no reason.

With this, you can't claim a PR anymore, if there are any. Just saying.

[theplague42]

@Stels - you did say earlier that when you give advice its generally for everyone - can you explain how this post is in the interests of town?

@Stels: I haven't lied yet, and I don't intend to start now. Certainly not to claim to scum for no reason.

With this, you can't claim a PR anymore, if there are any. Just saying.

I had thought this was suspicious, but I don't think that Stels would communicate so blatantly. Of course, that is subject to WIFOM, and I'm not even going to trying to outguess anyone. Although the "just saying" definitely seems like he's trying very hard to make it appear as SE-talk to a newbie.

[Mute]

@Stels - you did say earlier that when you give advice its generally for everyone - can you explain how this post is in the interests of town?

@Stels: I haven't lied yet, and I don't intend to start now. Certainly not to claim to scum for no reason.

With this, you can't claim a PR anymore, if there are any. Just saying.

Stels was more than likely pre-empting a false-claim..

[Neuky]

@Mute - I'd rather you had let Stels answer that.

Now , that you have though - why? I don't get it. Why would it be better to post that than wait and see if he did claim something?

[Neuky]

TP's post has just come up now - I think the site is having some time stamp issues.. anyway, I thought we all realised that if a question is directed to someone, we wait until they answer no?

[Mute]

Say later on Dawg is still alive and is put into L-1 again. with him saying quite a few many times that he's a townie, for him to claim a PR would just show he'd be lying and trying to find a reason to stay alive; is what I gather from that post of Stels.

[Stels]

Where are all of your scum reads...?
And can get that same list with the options (town, scum) with no inbetween?

That's the thing, I can't figure it out. It was Dawg and Mute at first, they still are somewhat that, but the rest is either null or town. I can't really pursue null reads since they haven't "said" anything yet (that's 3 people out of 8 excluding myself)... (Ty, Veridis, Asano234).

---------------------------------

Possible Ty/Mute team? A possibility as I'm looking at the last couple pages, ignoring the first few pages.

That aside, I'm getting tired of the Mute/Workdawg argument, as we aren't really getting anywhere. We need some new views, opinions, arguments, everything!

Vote: Ty

You're forgetting the possibility of Ty/Dawg scum-team, where Ty wants to get rid of his horrible partner Dawg

--------------------------------

@Stels - you did say earlier that when you give advice its generally for everyone - can you explain how this post is in the interests of town?

@Stels: I haven't lied yet, and I don't intend to start now. Certainly not to claim to scum for no reason.

With this, you can't claim a PR anymore, if there are any. Just saying.

That post in specific wasn't advice, it was a sort of warning. I'm not fond of liars, but if Dawg claims a PR when he is about to be lynched if he will be, then I won't be so daring to believe his claim since he already claimed VT. Depends on the situation though.

-------------------------------

[Stels]

@Asano234: 16/23 Posts are all fluff.
No input for 12 pages. Jumps onto the Mute wagon for little reason, except that his reasons for voting was: 1) & 2) [To cause a reaction]. Jumps off the wagon when Mute puts a

FoS

onto Asano. Personally, I don't see the reaction that was made by Mute that made you jump off someone you had no read on whatsoever. Care to elaborate? @Mute:

Stels: recently has caught my attention.

Care to elaborate this from a bit back? With this, I leave for the night.

[Workdawg]

@All

Regarding my recent wall posts, I'm sorry for that. I know they are pain to read, but it doesn't seem as I had much choice at the time. I was presented with three separate wall posts building a case against me and I couldn't really go along ignoring them or making a short reply to any. Especially in the case of Mute's ISO case against me, the walls attacked specific things, and I felt like if I didn't address each thing, I would only be hurting my case. So to reply in kind was the only way to do it.

Also, about my seeming absence. FWIW, I was online pretty much all day Friday, but no one else posted. If you take the timestamp of Stel's post after mine and then look at the time of the prod, I was really only gone for 1 day, and there had only been 9 posts.

Anyway...

veridis seems to be on the right track to me. I guess we'll have to see what Ty has to say when he finally shows back up. It's been a week since he's posted anything substantial, but his profile shows he "Last Visited" today.

[theplague42]

@Stels - you did say earlier that when you give advice its generally for everyone - can you explain how this post is in the interests of town?

@Stels: I haven't lied yet, and I don't intend to start now. Certainly not to claim to scum for no reason.

With this, you can't claim a PR anymore, if there are any. Just saying.

That post in specific wasn't advice, it was a sort of warning. I'm not fond of liars, but if Dawg claims a PR when he is about to be lynched if he will be, then I won't be so daring to believe his claim since he already claimed VT. Depends on the situation though.

Workdawg has obviously read a lot of games and articles. I'm sure that he's read about "Lynch All Liars" sometime or another. Your warning (yes, I'm calling it a warning) is unnecessary if Workdawg is as knowledgable as I believe him to be. I'll say again, the "just saying" comment really irks me. Calling it "warning" instead of "advice" also makes me suspicious. The words are pretty much synonymous in this usage, so it seems like you're trying to get away from accusations of being scumbuddies without changing the intent of what you say. Both "warning" and "advice" convey a meaning of telling someone what they shouldn't do. It's completely unnecessary in this case.

@Asano234: 16/23 Posts are all fluff.
No input for 12 pages. Jumps onto the Mute wagon for little reason, except that his reasons for voting was: 1) & 2) [To cause a reaction]. Jumps off the wagon when Mute puts a

FoS

onto Asano. Personally, I don't see the reaction that was made by Mute that made you jump off someone you had no read on whatsoever. Care to elaborate?

For right now, I think its just newbie-jumpiness and inexperience dealing with reactions to votes. If it was an experienced player, then I would be really suspicious.

[Mute]

@Stels:

Workdawg has obviously read a lot of games and articles. I'm sure that he's read about "Lynch All Liars" sometime or another. Your warning (yes, I'm calling it a warning) is unnecessary if Workdawg is as knowledgable as I believe him to be. I'll say again, the "just saying" comment really irks me. Calling it "warning" instead of "advice" also makes me suspicious. The words are pretty much synonymous in this usage, so it seems like you're trying to get away from accusations of being scumbuddies without changing the intent of what you say. Both "warning" and "advice" convey a meaning of telling someone what they shouldn't do. It's completely unnecessary in this case.

Plague's said it. I've got a serious feeling of you and him buddying up. With each of your posts towards Dawg I gather that assumption, hence why I said that.

[asano234]

Sorry for my absence all. I have had a lot of personal problems over the past few days, i will endeavour to catch up.

[Drench]

The Eighth Vote Count - Just over a week left!

theplague42
Neuky
Mute - 1 - Workdawg
Workdawg - 2 - Mute, Ty
asano234
veridis
Stels - 1 - Nachomamma8
Ty - 2 - veridis, theplague42
Nachomamma8

No Lynch

Not Voting - 3 - asano234, Stels, Neuky

With nine alive, it's five to lynch!

Day One's deadline expires on the 8th of February at 11:07am AEDST (GMT+11).

Ty has requested replacement.

[Drench]

Also, Nacho and veridis are being replaced.

EDIT: PRODDED I MEANT PRODDED.

[Workdawg]

WAT?!

[Neuky]

Workdawg has obviously read a lot of games and articles. I'm sure that he's read about "Lynch All Liars" sometime or another. Your warning (yes, I'm calling it a warning) is unnecessary if Workdawg is as knowledgable as I believe him to be. I'll say again, the "just saying" comment really irks me. Calling it "warning" instead of "advice" also makes me suspicious. The words are pretty much synonymous in this usage, so it seems like you're trying to get away from accusations of being scumbuddies without changing the intent of what you say. Both "warning" and "advice" convey a meaning of telling someone what they shouldn't do. It's completely unnecessary in this case.

Good point about the choice of words there.

The other thing is this - @Dawg, you posted directly after seven posts about Stels warning/advice to you, but you didn't comment on it at all. Care to share your thoughts?

..and yes, horrible news about THREE players wanting out/getting replaced - I just hope their replacements like reading!

[Workdawg]

I guess I'm not really sure what to say about Stels. I think the previous advice he has dispensed has been pretty generic stuff, even if it's been directed at me because of my obvious newbiness. I don't think anyone would argue that I appear to need it the most, lol.

The last comment that has people so curious does seem to be extremely specific though, I suppose; though if you take the quote in context it doesn't seem quite as bad...

@Stels: I haven't lied yet, and I don't intend to start now. Certainly not to claim to scum for no reason.

With this, you can't claim a PR anymore, if there are any. Just saying.

I honestly hadn't even considered the possibility of claiming a power role, so when I read it initially I just sort of brushed it off as a "Oh yeah, I suppose that's right" type of comment.

[Ty]

I’m sorry all, the amount of work I have as an engineering student is quite frankly overwhelming. Here’s my overall thoughts on the players.

Neuky:

Town. He’s given a pretty good vibe almost the entire game and brings up good points (not to mention his logic/thinking parallels mine in some regards). You are fairly quiet though, and even if you don’t want to be as in your face as I am you should step up and find scum!

Theplague42:

Town. He’s given off newbie town vibes for most of the game and I feel there’s a good chance he’s town (though pressuring him probably wouldn’t hurt). He tries to help out wherever possible and I like that kind of attitude, though as I said to Neuky don’t be afraid to take charge as the town needs a leader.

Workdawg:

Leaning Town. I should first off say

UNVOTE: Workdawg

. Up until the last few pages you have been incredibly scummy and my previous posts demonstrate my suspicion for you. However, you’ve done a good job defending yourself and I probably wouldn’t feel comfortable lynching you D1. To the other players, there is definitely a possibility Workdawg is scum and I would be extremely careful to make sure he’s not pulling the newbie-card, but I definitely think there’s better cards. Note: good job with your replies Workdawg, I know I can be a jerk when I grill people but I’m looking for their reaction under pressure and I think you gave a very pro-town defense. To Workdawg specifically, be more assertive in the game, especially when calling people out. I personally think your wagoning (remember, personal opinion) has been weak which is what set you in my crosshairs. Analyze posts, find scummy slips, apply pressure, repeat.

Mute:

Leaning Town. For the billionth time, THE DAMN TABLE IS A NULL TELL. Seriously, if Mute or Workdawg bring it up again slap them in the face for me. I say leaning town because he’s attempted scumhunting and gave a commendable analysis of Workdawg (yes, I read all of it). However, because the table discussion consumed so much focus it’s quite possible Mute is just a scum hiding under all of the crap that has been stirred up. Stop all talk about the table and focus your efforts on doing more posts like your Workdawg analysis (they don’t have to be quite so in depth though, I wouldn’t want to kill you).

Ok, here’s where we get to the good stuff…

Stels/Nachomamma8

-

I’ve taken heat for tunneling on Nacho and looking back I’m 100% glad I did it. I’m unsure if Nacho normally shows an intense disinterest in Day One or if he’s just plain busy but this guy has not helped town at all. Seriously, go back and read his ISO. He’s thrown out a few thought-provoking questions but the majority of his posts haven’t really contributed much. The fact he’s being replaced out with almost no reasoning should raise red flags, maybe being the mafia doesn’t appeal to him as much as town.

On a similar note, I have mixed feelings about Stels. As the other SE he’s definitely faced a lot less criticism than I have and has been much more under the radar. He hasn’t been lurking but he hasn’t necessarily stood out either. Also, it’s hard to differentiate between the two, but I have a gut feeling his advice is also being used to help out a scum partner in distress, possibly Workdawg.

I think it’s quite possible that either Stels (SE) or the IC position is scum based on the above and reading their posts throughout the game. My advice to fellow town players is do not blindly follow these positions because they have more experience, as I believe there is a good chance one of them is playing against you. Vigilance, my friends, vigilance.

Asano234/Veridis(Neben)

I smell another scum in here somewhere as well. Asano234 doesn’t post often and when he does, it’s usually without substance and certainly nothing thought-provoking to help the town. The problem is he hasn’t posted enough for me to get a good read and he could very well just be a newbie town that scared to get his feet wet. If you’re town, I would strongly encourage you to pick up your game. As I’ve suggested to others, scan posts and find sentences you have a weird gut feeling about it. Then make a post to call that person out on it.

Finally, the Veridis/Neben position. What the hell is going on here, amirite? It seems to be a cursed position and I don’t feel very comfortable with that. Veridis posted maybe three times, but it should be noted that I did like parts of what I saw (obviously not his vote for me, I can assure you that’s redirecting the town down the same wrong path). Because the role has barely posted at all, I’m not sure if that’s a misguided town player or a scum who’s trying to restart a wagon to lynch a town player that is still considered suspicious by many. A very high priority for the players of this game is to make whoever replaces into this positions post A LOT.

Possible Scum Pairs- Something I find useful (more useful later on in the game but it’s never too early to start thinking about this) is finding pairs of people that seem to “fit well” together as scum. For example of two players seem to be overly friendly or overly hostile towards one another it’s not bad to make a note and watch for future interaction between the two. The biggest example would be Mute-Workdawg. As I believe Stels stated, I think this was a town vs. town argument due to the intensity and over ridiculousness, however I wouldn’t guarantee that.

Here’s the pairs I’m seeing from the game so far:

Stels/Nacho with Asano/Veridis
Stels with Workdawg/Mute

VOTE: Stels

[Drench]

WHOOPS SORRY SORRY

I AM DUMB AND USED THE WORD REPLACED IN PLACE OF PRODDED

PLEASE THROW THINGS AT ME AFTER THE BEEP

BEEP.

(Nacho and veridic have been prodded? ...^.^)

[Workdawg]

I meant to do this before... but anyway:

UNVOTE: Mute

@Drench

Did Nacho and veridis request replacement as well?

Oh... that's WAY better... lol

[Mute]

@Drench: -throws marshmallows at-

=P

now then
Both Neuky and Ty have brought up something I've only suspected, but it still only makes weak sense (the argument that due to their (lack of) activity Naben/Veridis are scum.

Iuno. I'd like to have more to go on though.

Unvote

prepatory.

[theplague42]

Alright, so. Ty's exit-post looks very towny to me. I would imagine (for the most part) that scum would be more inclined to stay in the game as everyone gets to play as scum less often than town. His continued analysis and information-giving is also towny, as scum would definitely want to go out quietly. I'll go ahead and

Unvote

Vote: Stels

as my number two suspect now. Mute has finally dropped the war with Workdawg and that had been the main issue I had with him. I'm starting to believe that Stels is scum, but I'm not sure about his buddy. The Stels/Workdawg situation is definitely suspicious because of the advice-giving and the fact that Stels said that the Workdawg/Mute argument was probably town on town. Although Nacho said this as well, Stels could be implying that Workdawg is town without strongly stating it. Asano still seems like misguided newbie, but IGMEOY. As for veridis, I have no idea what is going on there. I will say that I had a crazy thought about that over the weekend. What if Naben's super-late confirming was gaining time to talk with his buddy? Naben disappeared afterward, and my last game (yes, more single game meta-ing) had a scum-slot with a total of three players in it. My choices for teams are:

Stels/Workdawg
veridis/somebody else

If Stels is town, I would consider that clearing Workdawg. If he is scum, then I would be suspicious of Workdawg.
If veridis is town, then I don't know what the hell is going on with that. If veridis is scum, then I would have to gauge reactions and the like and do some review-work.
Mute's calming-down-ness has definitely pushed him back towards null tell for me. Townie with some definite tunneling issues. But apparently he can see reason, so I'm happy with that.

[Stels]

Workdawg has obviously read a lot of games and articles. I'm sure that he's read about "Lynch All Liars" sometime or another. Your warning (yes, I'm calling it a warning) is unnecessary if Workdawg is as knowledgable as I believe him to be. I'll say again, the "just saying" comment really irks me. Calling it "warning" instead of "advice" also makes me suspicious. The words are pretty much synonymous in this usage, so it seems like you're trying to get away from accusations of being scumbuddies without changing the intent of what you say. Both "warning" and "advice" convey a meaning of telling someone what they shouldn't do. It's completely unnecessary in this case.

Oh god, now my word choice is being insulted. Yes, I am aware that technically warning = advice, but they are used in different situations. Advice is more friendly IMO than warning. Shall I provide an example? OK! Here we go!
You were walking down the street when you see a strange door. On the door it says:

[ADVICE]
Do Not Enter.

Would you still enter this door as opposed to:

[WARNING!]
DO NOT ENTER.

@Asano234: 16/23 Posts are all fluff.
No input for 12 pages. Jumps onto the Mute wagon for little reason, except that his reasons for voting was: 1) & 2) [To cause a reaction]. Jumps off the wagon when Mute puts a

FoS

onto Asano. Personally, I don't see the reaction that was made by Mute that made you jump off someone you had no read on whatsoever. Care to elaborate?

For right now, I think its just newbie-jumpiness and inexperience dealing with reactions to votes. If it was an experienced player, then I would be really suspicious.

Even the content that he provides can technically be called fluff... I mean, I'm not insulting anyone, I'm just stating that it bothers me.

@Stels:

Workdawg has obviously read a lot of games and articles. I'm sure that he's read about "Lynch All Liars" sometime or another. Your warning (yes, I'm calling it a warning) is unnecessary if Workdawg is as knowledgable as I believe him to be. I'll say again, the "just saying" comment really irks me. Calling it "warning" instead of "advice" also makes me suspicious. The words are pretty much synonymous in this usage, so it seems like you're trying to get away from accusations of being scumbuddies without changing the intent of what you say. Both "warning" and "advice" convey a meaning of telling someone what they shouldn't do. It's completely unnecessary in this case.

Plague's said it. I've got a serious feeling of you and him buddying up. With each of your posts towards Dawg I gather that assumption, hence why I said that.

So what do you want me to do about it? Want me to stop talking to Workdawg? Should I just go and isolate myself in the corner so no one can buddy-up to me anymore? Want me to stop giving advice? Fine! We got an IC and another SE here to do that in my place. Is that really helpful? Figure it out for yourselves.

As for veridis, I have no idea what is going on there. I will say that I had a crazy thought about that over the weekend. What if Naben's super-late confirming was gaining time to talk with his buddy?

Do you know how absurd this whole statement is? Think about it. He was late confirming because he was talking to his scum-buddy? Really now? Let me break it down for you:
1) Scum can talk only during the confirmation stage + Night.
2) Naben did not confirm until the middle of page 4.
3) Naben can't talk to his scum-buddy because he hasn't confirmed yet.
4) Since he hasn't confirmed yet, he doesn't know what role he has been given.
5) Even if he did know his role, why would he not confirm when the game started?
6) Related to #5. If it's to dodge suspicion, how come you bring this question up? Meaning there is no point into confirming this late.
7) Scum-chat is maintained by the Mod, the mod would know when the scum are talking to each other, since he opens and closes the scum-chat, meaning that Naben would already be confirmed at the start of Day 1.

I think it’s quite possible that either Stels (SE) or the IC position is scum based on the above and reading their posts throughout the game. My advice to fellow town players is do not blindly follow these positions because they have more experience, as I believe there is a good chance one of them is playing against you. Vigilance, my friends, vigilance.

Ho~ That means to also not follow your advice and what you just gave them ( do not believe the IC's or SE's, aka Nacho, Ty and me)).

On a similar note, I have mixed feelings about Stels. As the other SE he’s definitely faced a lot less criticism than I have and has been much more under the radar. He hasn’t been lurking but he hasn’t necessarily stood out either. Also, it’s hard to differentiate between the two, but I have a gut feeling his advice is also being used to help out a scum partner in distress, possibly Workdawg.

Just an FYI: I'm not the greatest scum hunter that you'll come across on MS. Like Nacho, I don't get as active as I do until somewhere after Day 2.

[Neuky]

OK TP, I think that's yet another L-1..

My vote would be Stels as well - but that would be a hammer.
Nacho and veridas have been prodded, so I'd rather we wait until we hear from them..

Anyway, in the meantime..
@Dawg (I don't mean to pick on you, but...any reason why you didn't comment on his remark until I prompted you (it was 7 posts in a row commenting on it just before you posted..)