Mini 1121: Nexusville Mafia.

[WeaponsofMassConstruction]

It should've been pretty obvious I contradicted myself there, towards which scum would see the opportunity and try to cast attention to it, as ICE did

Ever thought that he just thinks contradictions are scummy?

Left out the "jokingly"

[neko2086]

I suppose so, but I just wouldn't have ever thought, "Oho, I know, I'm going to place a joke vote on X for asking too many questions, and then I'll go ahead and answer them. That'll sure get the scum in a tizzy." So, way to be clever I guess, but it seems rather pointless. It's just that it was a joke vote, so it shouldn't EVER have been an issue for such a banal contradiction. The fact that Ice is making an issue out of it aside, I just don't see why you would think it could become an issue. Anybody see what I'm saying?

[Nameless]

This is directly generally: People need to stop using the early game as an excuse to handwave away dubious statements as jokes. If you're joking, it's trivial to make this 100% clear (see: #17) and not doing so needlessly risks wasting time. I'm not saying every/anyone doing this is scummy, but it is poor play and likely going to help the scum.

Nameless--what exactly is bothering you about Ninja's posts [...]

There is no need for you to be jumping in and defending another player at this point. Not liking this.

[DarthYoshi]

There is no need for you to be jumping in and defending another player at this point. Not liking this.

You can not like it as much as you want, but when you're pointing fingers in lieu of answering what was a fairly simple question that gets asked all the time ("What exactly bothers you about the guy's posts?"), you're the one who ends up looking scummy, not me.

[implosion]

Also, right now I'm only curious about why Implosion felt the need to establish himself as some type of leader, and why he's so anxious to jump in... this is usually a scum tell, and I implore nobody to just skip over it and excuse it as his "style of play."

It isn't even my style of play. I'm not generally much of a leader (at least on MS). I'm just ending the RVS.

mongoose either ignored or forgot about q21

Yes. Ignored = scum (pretending to have not seen it and distancing [possibility of WIFOM]or pretending to distance[/possibility of WIFOM] from q21). Forgot about = town or scum.

[Nameless]

There is no need for you to be jumping in and defending another player at this point. Not liking this.

You can not like it as much as you want, but when you're pointing fingers in lieu of answering what was a fairly simple question that gets asked all the time ("What exactly bothers you about the guy's posts?"), you're the one who ends up looking scummy, not me.

I stated in #37 what I was generally keeping an eye on, and I don't think it warrants more attention yet - particularly when ICEninja hasn't even posted since. For the sake of comparison, your choice to defend him I can pinpoint as specifically scummy and your nonresponse ("You can not like it as much as you want") more so.

(SSS: moderate)

[ICEninja]

I am now officially full time employed! Yay! On the other hand, I'll have much less time to devote to mafia than I'm used to, so boo.

As scum, it also continues to make sense for him to push this into a wagon due to others' previously stated suspicion, so ICE is my top scum read at the moment. I would also call silavor scum, but his last point was quite good about implosion/mb53.

And as town, it makes sense for me to pressure someone who made a contradiction. How is intentionally doing something scummy a trap? How is scum more likely than town to attack you? I'm just scum hunting. You did something weird, and I called you out for it. Now you're backing out saying "oh it was just a trap!". That got scum me lynched in another game, so I'm actually going to say this is a much bigger mark against you than me.

Will have time to address more later.

[ICEninja]

I have the feeling Ice is going to get on my nerves, and I think he's making mountains out of molehills (and yes, those are plural on purpose this time), but we really do have to start somewhere, and I don't see any malice in it at the moment. Overzealous maybe, but not scummy.

Yes I do this regularly as it accelerates the game and gets me better reads on people. Your response to my weak jab seemed town.

Definitely out of time now.

[WeaponsofMassConstruction]

And as town, it makes sense for me to pressure someone who made a contradiction. How is intentionally doing something scummy a trap?

No, it was not scummy, and that was the point. It

was

a contradiction, but taking all contradictions as scumtells (note the context and language there was very purposeful) is incredibly one-dimensional and an easy opportunistic route for scum to cast suspicion on people.

How is scum more likely than town to attack you? I'm just scum hunting.

I have explained this.

You did something weird, and I called you out for it. Now you're backing out saying "oh it was just a trap!". That got scum me lynched in another game, so I'm actually going to say this is a much bigger mark against you than me.

Nonsense, I was there six minutes after you showed up because I had anticipated such a reaction. I have set traps as town before any your meta =/= my meta.

[ICEninja]

That's twice now you've made a (comparatively) lengthy post that amounts to no more than a verbose form of 'I agree'. I'm gonna keep an eye on that.

No, that's twice I've expanded upon my opinion that happens to agree (at least on a point) with another player's. I didn't explicitly say I agree with you, except in the point that, similar to what you said, I had a hard time deciding if his posts were scum tells or not. The rest of the post was expanding my opinions.

And yes, on the first page or two, I generally have to resort to extreme anal retention in order to actually make any form of case against anyone. As content is put forth, and more motivations are shown that can be analyzed, I am able to put forth much more coherent and scum hunting posts that give insight in to another player's alignment.

So Weapons, was your RVS vote a joke, or was it a trap? You keep insisting that it was a joke, but now you keep insisting that you knew scum was going to jump on it, and so you were waiting for it. You can't say it was both, because one undermines the other. And yes, I find contradictions scummy, though what you did wasn't a full blown scummy contradiction. I'm much more interested in you saying that this was a joking vote (and reinforcing it in post 50), and you saying that this was a scum trap, which you reinforced in 48, and VERY explicitly in post 58, using the following wording:

It was a contradiction, but taking all contradictions as scumtells (note the context and language there was

very purposeful

) is incredibly one-dimensional and an easy opportunistic route for scum to cast suspicion on people.

Bold emphasis was mine. So it was joking, but it was very purposeful? No, this is a blatant contradiction, obviously not on purpose, and yes this one is absolutely scummy. You're trying to get the benefit of having done something pro town, but at the same time squirming your way out of having done something scummy. You can't have it both ways.

[q21]

Unvote

So Weapons intentionally made a minor contradiction in the hope that scum would jump on it. Apparently it was a trap? Yeah... No, I'm not buying it.

Vote Weapons

Nameless--what exactly is bothering you about Ninja's posts [...]

There is no need for you to be jumping in and defending another player at this point. Not liking this.

Darth's question was perfectly valid. Your reaction, though, is unnaturally defensive and is therefore scummy.

[Zdenek]

I'm a bit surprised that Implosion's vote on mongoose for distancing wasn't a joke.

I am not buying WOMC's "trap" argument, and I think

I would also call silavor scum, but his last point was quite good about implosion/mb53.

is ridiculous, since all silavor did was explain why implosion accused mongoose of distancing.

Aw, you guys aren't very good at detecting sarcastic humor, huh. Live and learn.

So you don't think that WOMC is scummy?

[silavor]

Aw, you guys aren't very good at detecting sarcastic humor, huh. Live and learn.

So you don't think that WOMC is scummy?

I do, but it's because he's trying to retcon a joke into a scum trap, not because he tried to make a joke vote.

[DarthYoshi]

I stated in #37 what I was generally keeping an eye on, and I don't think it warrants more attention yet - particularly when ICEninja hasn't even posted since. For the sake of comparison, your choice to defend him I can pinpoint as specifically scummy and your nonresponse ("You can not like it as much as you want") more so. (SSS: moderate)

You said that you had your eye on Ninja for being verbose. Cool. All I asked was what exactly about it is bothering you—as in, for instance, was there anything in particular that caught your attention? Or is it just that you are wary in general of people who write lengthy posts, or is it because it’s Ninja who is making lengthier posts? Asking for clarification and explanation doesn’t constitute defending—you just jumping in and shouting out that I’m defending Ninja doesn’t make it so. But being asked for clarification on your wariness of someone and declining to respond is generally pretty anti-town in nature.

On WoMC--I don't have a ton to add to everyone else's suspicions, except to say that contradictions so early in the game are just as apt to be jumped on by town who have little hard information to go on as they are by scum looking to frame someone, so its effectiveness as a trap seems dubious at best. So I'm not giving much credence to WoMC's defense so far.

[mongoose]

VOTE: mb53 for having the lowest number out of any of the players in his name.

Unvote, vote: mongoose

for distancing from q21.

theres a guy named q21? UNVOTE: VOTE: q21

Ironically enough my post was #21

/end rvs

I dont like this whole discussion about whether contradictions are scummy. It seems pointless, since the contradiction was obviously a joke, it seems. maybe later on contradictions will be important, but as of now I don't think it is relevant, since it was the transition between RVS and normal day 1. On the other hand, post #60 pretty much says what I have to say on the issue.

FOS: WoMC

(since I don't want to unvote, vote, unvote, and vote again in the same post)

[Zdenek]

Aw, you guys aren't very good at detecting sarcastic humor, huh. Live and learn.

So you don't think that WOMC is scummy?

I do, but it's because he's trying to retcon a joke into a scum trap, not because he tried to make a joke vote.

Which comment did you think was sarcastic humour?'

I'm do not like Mongoose random voting this late in game, especially when there is someone who he thinks is scummy. It feels like he's taking the accusation of distancing too seriously.

[silavor]

Which comment did you think was sarcastic humour?'

My own

Vote:Weapon
for being jumpy, defensive, using IIoA as a scumtell on page

1

, and because it's still RVS.

[q21]

I too dislike mongoose choosing to go with a further joke vote rather than a genuine suspicion.

[implosion]

Snow day

I'm a bit surprised that Implosion's vote on mongoose for distancing wasn't a joke.

It was a half-joke. A semi-legitimate reason for a vote, intended to get out of the RVS.

post 64

Okay, post 64 just REEKS of the classic "vote a townie, fos a scumbuddy" move. And his explanation is that... he doesn't want to unvote, vote, unvote and vote in the same post. First of all, why not? Second of all, then why not just vote WoMC? He's only at L-3 right now by my calculation.

---

@WoMC

: please provide a completed game (if possible) in which you "set a trap" as town, similarly to how you did here, since you say it's a part of your meta.

[_over9000]

Based on everything that's happened, I'm now happy with my RVS vote against WoMC and am choosing to leave it there as a not-random vote.

[neko2086]

I highly suspect ICEninja of causing the storm that has shut everything down. If my power goes out, I'm coming after you. (I shouldn't have to, but I better specify that this is a joke). Congrats on getting a job--that's not easy to do right now.

Seriously now, WMC is gathering quite a few votes rather quickly. I don't like this last post by over9000 so much. I mean, I know the ideas behind a WMC wagon have already been beaten to death, but I just generally dislike a ditto vote that contributes nothing. There's no question to WMC, and there's no attempt to explore any other avenues. WMC is certainly not the only potential scum suspect right now, and there's plenty of daylight left, so this just looks like coasting.

On the topic, I really do think, as bizarre as it is, that WMC was trying to lay some sort of trap. What else could his "you missed the point" post mean? (not a rhetorical question--this is really bothering me). I can't tell whether this is a scummy move or a poorly conceived, town-motivated one. I'm just as interested as Implosion to see an instance of this being at all effective.

Mongoose's 64 is rather terrible, and I agree with Implosion's assessment. What is really interesting about Mongoose's post is that he was rattled enough by this distancing accusation that he bothered to make a second joke vote to rectify the situation (which really shouldn't be perceived as a "situation" in the first place). Nervous scum?

[DarthYoshi]

Am quite suspicious of Mongoose after #64. I have a couple reasons why, on top of what people have already said:

And his explanation is that... he doesn't want to unvote, vote, unvote and vote in the same post. First of all, why not?

Not doing something because it might create waves or controversy can be a pretty reliable scumtell.

And, am I the only one who is seeing Mongoose trying to hedge his bets in the chance that the town mislynches? Mongoose calls the discussion on the contradictions "pointless," and then immediately goes, "on the other hand..." to reference q21's #60 in his (Mongoose's) FoS, which contained a reason for a WoMC vote because of...the contradiction. If Mongoose was trying to avoid coming off as wishy washy with the unvote, vote, unvote, vote thing, he's definitely coming across as wishy washy here instead.

[mb53]

Ok.

unvote, vote: _over9000

All he has been doing all game is: "Yep, you guys are right."
Don't like it.

What exactly is WoMC doing that is scummy? Use your own words.

[implosion]

town:
implosion
mb
neko
ICE
Yoshi
Zdenek

leaning town:
q21

neutral for now:
neil
silavor

leaning scum:
WoMC

scum:
mongoose
nameless
over9000

Discuss.

[Nexus]

Votecount the Second:

WeaponsofMassConstruction (4): ICEninja, silavor, _over9000, q21
Mongoose (2): Darth Yoshi, implosion
_over9000 (1): mb53
q21 (1): mongoose
ICEninja (1): WeaponsofMassConstruction
Silavor (1): Zdenek

Not voting: neil1113, nameless, neko2086

With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch. Deadline is 22nd February at 12pm GMT.

As ever, if there are any problems, post in thread or PM me.