Newbie 1055 (Game over)

[Zachrulez]

A long and sleepless night sees only 7 of you actually wake up. Vinoth fell off into a deep sleep and never woke up, but he did seem to have a nice little swim... IN HIS OWN BLOOD.

Vinoth

(Vanilla Townie)

Killed Night 1

Not voting: (SxyBeast, Vittorio Salamdien, MrBump, Doros, Stefunny, DavidParker, Haylen)

With 7 alive it's 4 to lynch.

Day 2 shall end no later than Tuesday, Feb 22nd at 10:30pm CST.

[Vittorio Salamdien]

Interesting. For a while I was convinced Vinoth was scum.

VOTE: David Parker

[Vittorio Salamdien]

Thinking a bit about this, why did scum go for Vinoth? In my mind, he didn't present any big threat to scum on D1. Reading through his posts, now, I see he fingers MrBump. Could the big brouhaha between Gapoc and Bump have been a crude smokescreen as Vinoth suggested?

On the other hand, if I can step outside the fiction of this game and go meta-game theory, could it be that one of the more experienced players is indeed scum and killed Vinoth (instead of me, for instance, or Parker, who also came on strong) so as to keep the learning curve gradient? I.e. that an experienced player is scum and keeping to their pedagogical remit?

I'm a little bit suspicious of Mr Parker. His answers to my few questions have been too immaculate. If my memory doesn't fail me, he too came on quite strongly with Gapoc, but his vote for Gapoc could also have been smokescreen. For all we know, Parker and Gapoc may have conspired to sacrifice Gapoc so as to mask the stench.

Parker has also buddied up to me by his curt, strong statement: VS is town. Which is where my suspicion of him starts.

But, because of Vinoth's theories, and also because I get a tingling sensation around 2 other players, I shall hold back and see what others think.

UNVOTE: DavidParker

[MrBump]

A long and sleepless night sees only 7 of you actually wake up. Vinoth fell off into a deep sleep and never woke up, but he did seem to have a nice little swim... IN HIS OWN BLOOD.

Damn that shit is brutal.

1. Vinoth kill.
WHAT THE FU-
Vinoth was the scummiest player left alive, I was pretty sure he was scum. He was a complete red herring. I was expecting either myself, VS or DP to be dead, not Vinoth o.O

2. VS, you're suggesting that I had a 6 page argument with Gapoc, bussed the HELL out of him since two IRL days into the game, made a massive wall at my partner, convinced everyone to vote him and he argued back calling me scum with no argument? That's seriously unlikely.

The most suspicious thing about David atm is how he first went with the Gapoc vote and when he was in danger of being hammered he immediately unvoted. I know he had a reason for it, but something seems fishy.

After that kill I have no ideas, and my wall is only about Gapoc's posts.

VS is ProTown as all hell, but there's something I can't put my finger on about his posts. I'll re-read for a bit later, maybe.
Stefunny seems helpful to Newbies more than anything else, barely seen her post.
Haylen's the same (I'm not blaming either of you )
SxyBeast gets kinda annoyed at, well, everyone really (I'm one to talk), and Gapoc left hints in his posts about her being his buddy. When did he say his scumbuddy was a "him", Haylen?
Doros posts fluff, I fell off my chair last page when it posted content. It could be an elaborate scheme and she's actually scum.

Actually, that Doros point, I like it.
No, not the elaborate scheme thing, but think about the kill.
The kill was on Vinoth, for baaasically no reason. I think the reason WAS, though, that the scum killed Vinoth as he was a newb and they didn't want him around?
In that case the obvious kill is DOROS, right?
But Doros lived through the night. If they were killing red herrings for some reason, again, Doros is the obvious kill.
Doros wasn't very experienced, so maybe thought killing Vinoth would be the best course of action without the knowledge that it made no sense.
OR, Vinoth could have worked something really important out so the (most likely Newbie) scum killed him before anyone picked it up.

And the obvious option, to confuse the fuck out of us. Damn.

[Vittorio Salamdien]

[...]
1. Vinoth kill.
WHAT THE FU-
Vinoth was the scummiest player left alive, I was pretty sure he was scum. He was a complete red herring. I was expecting either myself, VS or DP to be dead, not Vinoth o.O

2. VS, you're suggesting that I had a 6 page argument with Gapoc, bussed the HELL out of him since two IRL days into the game, made a massive wall at my partner, convinced everyone to vote him and he argued back calling me scum with no argument? That's seriously unlikely.

The most suspicious thing about David atm is how he first went with the Gapoc vote and when he was in danger of being hammered he immediately unvoted. I know he had a reason for it, but something seems fishy.
[...]
VS is ProTown as all hell, but there's something I can't put my finger on about his posts. I'll re-read for a bit later, maybe.
Stefunny seems helpful to Newbies more than anything else, barely seen her post.
Haylen's the same (I'm not blaming either of you )
SxyBeast gets kinda annoyed at, well, everyone really (I'm one to talk), and Gapoc left hints in his posts about her being his buddy. When did he say his scumbuddy was a "him", Haylen?
Doros posts fluff, I fell off my chair last page when it posted content. It could be an elaborate scheme and she's actually scum. [...]

[/quote]

On pt2, Mr Bump: You need to read more carefully. This is what I said: "In my mind, he [Vinoth] didn't present any big threat to scum on D1. Reading through his posts, now, I see he fingers MrBump. Could the big brouhaha between Gapoc and Bump have been a crude smokescreen

as Vinoth suggested?

" In other words, I misread Vinoth, yes, but I was following from what I

thought

Vinoth was saying; therefore not me, per se, making the suggestion.

To the rest of your post: Your mock expression of shock, horror and surprise at Vinoth's death has a whiff to it. Sorry, I am not convinced.

Then your list of players and what you think of them... I'm sure that's a scum tell.

And: "but there's something I can't put my finger on about his [VS] posts." Try harder. I don't post walls, nor fluff. I scumhunt and do not fear revealing my suspicions. Take a gander and focus on your strongest suspect.

[BTW, enough about Doros posting fluff. I'm sure she got the message and it doesn't need repeated. Also, circumlocution seems to be a strong point on your side; you too can get rid of some fluff.]

[MrBump]

Attacking me, Vittorio? I'm not the Mafia, it's as simple as that. I would've had to go through so much trouble to kill Gapoc, on Day 1 no less. Why bother?
And there IS something about your posts, especially today. You've attacked me and David already on logic which, frankly, doesn't make any sense in the slightest. Why the sudden aggression?

I didn't say you fluffed, not once. I play to find scum, and that's what I'm doing.

"To the rest of your post: Your mock expression of shock, horror and surprise at Vinoth's death has a whiff to it. Sorry, I am not convinced."

Yet you can't say what's wrong with that, can you? No, I'm not trying hard enough when I say you may be scum yet you say I'm scummy because there's a "whiff" to my post? Saying my "shock, horror and surprise" is "mock" is just a direct accusation right there. I'm genuinely surprised Vinoth died as the perfect red herring.
And if you think I would kill Vinoth because he accused me, don't be silly. Would I be stupid enough to do that after everything I said yesterday?

Vittorio Salamdien, you sir need to stop twisting my words.

[Vittorio Salamdien]

Mr Bump, I'm not gonna start a ding-dong such as you vs Gapoc. You read too fast and miss nuances in my syntax. That's all.

[MrBump]

I didn't. You accused me, I defended. I'm sorry, was I meant to roll over and self-vote or something?

I read too fast for that bit then you accused me of other things.

[DavidParker]

You shouldn't WANT to be a bad player. You did however slip up that your partner is either a he, or you believe him to be a he, which narrows it down quite a bit. I wouldnt advise self-hammering or self-voting as any role to be honest. I have to go to work now.

Interesting point to bring up... I'm firmly of the opinion that we should ignore what "caught-scum" say. It's definitely a possibility that he was leaving a subtle hint about his partner for town to find in the hopes they would say it's a slip (or his "girl" partner points it out).

At this point the supposed "males" of the group would be myself/Vittorio/MrBump. I'm not sure what Doros' gender is.

Regardless, I didn't actually notice the "he" gapoc used, and the fact it's now been brought to my attention is really pissing me off because it's making me second guess myself/gapoc's intentions/ignore my actual scum hunting and use what gapoc left us. Even if I say to ignore caught scum, I'll still be asking if he actually messed up there (he did try to make it seem genuine, if it was a trick it's pretty impressive, especially for a 12 year old or whatever he was)

Anyways, I'm still firmly of the opinion that Vittorio is town. I can understand his suspicions of mine, and a lot of my responses have been lacking at times, but simply put, this game and the players haven't required me to actively try to appear super-town. I've stated my honest opinions throughout and how I believe the game should be played and seems to have worked so far. (I'll also have you know it was me who first caught scum-gapoc with his lie/scum-slip early!)

Anyways onto real stuff:

@Vittorio: Conspired to sacrifice gapoc?? For one thing, scum don't have day-talk during newbie games as far as I know. I've never seen it allowed/used. It's definitely NOT a good scum strategy to sacrifice your buddy on day 1. Bussing them if you have to or see an town-like opportunity to do so maybe, but planning on it before day is not wise. I was actually the first person to serious-vote gapoc when he blatantly lied. It was by far the scummiest thing at that point in the game so yes I did go onto him strongly.

@MrBump: I agree I probably found him slightly the scummiest going into night phase. The fact you bring it up as a red herring is fishy though.

The most suspicious thing about David atm is how he first went with the Gapoc vote and when he was in danger of being hammered he immediately unvoted. I know he had a reason for it, but something seems fishy.

There was a lot of town reasons to unvote him at that point. He had just self-voted to put himself at L-1 very early on. In newbie games a quick hammer is somewhat common and I didn't want gapoc to be self-voting and giving up like he was. (Although it's clear he was trying to get votes off himself with his self-vote in hind-sight now). As an SE I still am somewhat responsible for the learning process, so I did take it upon myself to try aid gapoc in that situation into how to improve his situation and play to his win-con.

You want to know what's REALLY FISHY. That everyone on gapoc's wagon UNVOTED after I unvoted him. He went to 0 or 1 votes almost right away. That's what was most fishy. It's like the scum who was possibly bussing him early on, saw a way to get off the wagon when I did, and did so. I re-voted gapoc very quickly because the way everyone unvoted. Gapoc was the scummiest player in the game; Even when I unvoted him. It was just me playing my role as an SE and because even not as an SE I wasn't ready for day to end, I unvoted. The scummier unvotes were those who unvoted after me.

Hence,

MAJOR FOS: MrBump

for being a guy,

LESS MAJOR FOS: Stefunny

for not being a guy. Sigh. Although, by play alone, MrBump is far less likely to be scum buddies with gapoc.

@MrBump: How is my unvote of gapoc scummier than your one??? Your unvote put the scummiest player in the game (an opinion you seemed to share) at ZERO VOTES. How is that not scummy? And my unvote at L-1 on page 5 is scummy?

[DavidParker]

This post he used "him" to describe his scum buddy in his self-quote.

I apologize to my partner and would like to apologize to him for doing this.

Another interesting quote:

If I were a townie, I would vote Vinoth next. He really has no use in the game, and mafia isn't going to waste a kill on him... So I guess that just means I just told everyone he is not mafia, which means that it's just a ploy to draw attention away (somehow), and that he is mafia, etc...

At this point he was caught, however mafia did end up killing vinoth.

Anyways, I'm not going to speculate too much into night-kill speculation, it's a pile of WIFOM, and gapoc saying "him", i'll *TRY* to ignore. I'm going to focus on his posts before he was caught.

[MrBump]

Not Maf. Using the him slip is ridiculous, IMO. You said yourself you would try to avoid it and now you're using it? What?

I never said my unvote wasn't scummy, because it was. Yours was too. I'm still a newb remember, I make mistakes.
Why Stefunny over Haylen/SxyBeast?

[Vittorio Salamdien]

Anyways, I'm still firmly of the opinion that Vittorio is town. I can understand his suspicions of mine, and a lot of my responses have been lacking at times, but simply put, this game and the players haven't required me to actively try to appear super-town. I've stated my honest opinions throughout and how I believe the game should be played and seems to have worked so far. (I'll also have you know it was me who first caught scum-gapoc with his lie/scum-slip early!)

Anyways onto real stuff:

@Vittorio: Conspired to sacrifice gapoc?? For one thing, scum don't have day-talk during newbie games as far as I know. I've never seen it allowed/used. It's definitely NOT a good scum strategy to sacrifice your buddy on day 1. Bussing them if you have to or see an town-like opportunity to do so maybe, but planning on it before day is not wise. I was actually the first person to serious-vote gapoc when he blatantly lied. It was by far the scummiest thing at that point in the game so yes I did go onto him strongly.

@MrBump: I agree I probably found him slightly the scummiest going into night phase. The fact you bring it up as a red herring is fishy though.

You want to know what's REALLY FISHY. That everyone on gapoc's wagon UNVOTED after I unvoted him. He went to 0 or 1 votes almost right away. That's what was most fishy. It's like the scum who was possibly bussing him early on, saw a way to get off the wagon when I did, and did so. I re-voted gapoc very quickly because the way everyone unvoted. Gapoc was the scummiest player in the game; Even when I unvoted him. It was just me playing my role as an SE and because even not as an SE I wasn't ready for day to end, I unvoted. The scummier unvotes were those who unvoted after me.

I'd just like to point out, for the record, that my second post in this thread (and the very first actual game-post that I made) is my vote on Gapoc and I never unvote him. And I formed this suspicion myself. So I was not onto any bandwagon.

I'm also disappointed that he voted for himself, although glad that we found scum D1, even if he half gave himself away.

About my conspiracy theory re Gapoc, I see your point. It was a stupid blindspot on my part.

I guess we'll have to look at the sequence of votes and unvotes then...

[DavidParker]

Huh? Because Stefunny ALSO unvoted gapoc. Also there was a bit of distancing there. gapoc voting for stefunny for not posting at all, (ie: he could easily unvote when she came back), and stefunny hopping on the wagon like I would probably expect experienced-scumplayer to do because gapoc was pretty obv-scum, but then hopping off the wagon so easily when me+gapoc unvoted.


How is using the him slip ridiculous? I hate that it's there, but the fact it is it should be brought up. Gapoc used it in such a way (in a draft post even) that made it seem completely unintentional. If it's a trick it's a clever/thought-out one, that he had to rely on someone picking up on, and something I wouldnt expect from someone of his experience. Hence, why while I hate to have to take something like that into consideration, I am now doing so in finding scum. Yeah, I don't want to and try to avoid looking into what caught scum say, but the "him" he used was a possible-SLIP, not something content-wise he said (ie, gapoc saying we should lynch vinoth next, that is something to ignore), but accidentally (or perhaps accdidentally) using a pronoun is something that is less likely to be a misleading clue.


My unvote was not scummy MrBump.

Also, playing the newbie card is ridiculous.

Vote: MrBump

Preview edit: You don't have to justify your actions until I make accusation against them so don't worry.

[Vittorio Salamdien]

Huh? Because Stefunny ALSO unvoted gapoc. Also there was a bit of distancing there. gapoc voting for stefunny for not posting at all, (ie: he could easily unvote when she came back), and stefunny hopping on the wagon like I would probably expect experienced-scumplayer to do because gapoc was pretty obv-scum, but then hopping off the wagon so easily when me+gapoc unvoted.


How is using the him slip ridiculous? I hate that it's there, but the fact it is it should be brought up. Gapoc used it in such a way (in a draft post even) that made it seem completely unintentional. If it's a trick it's a clever/thought-out one, that he had to rely on someone picking up on, and something I wouldnt expect from someone of his experience. Hence, why while I hate to have to take something like that into consideration, I am now doing so in finding scum. Yeah, I don't want to and try to avoid looking into what caught scum say, but the "him" he used was a possible-SLIP, not something content-wise he said (ie, gapoc saying we should lynch vinoth next, that is something to ignore), but accidentally (or perhaps accdidentally) using a pronoun is something that is less likely to be a misleading clue.


My unvote was not scummy MrBump.

Also, playing the newbie card is ridiculous.

Vote: MrBump

Preview edit: You don't have to justify your actions until I make accusation against them so don't worry.

This is all very interesting, Mr Parker. I find MrBump very jumpy and quick to defend. I insinuate against him and he jumps up and shouts "accusation!". It's not even a FOS. But his reactions speak volumes.

I am now considering Mr. Bump seriously... not that I want to jump onto your wagon and form a band

But I first want to revise the posts with that pronoun thing with Gapoc.

[DavidParker]

Based on the way I've interpreted gapoc's play/maturity/skill throughout this game I say it's more likely to be an accidental slip, than a trap he left for us. I'd say about 80% sure of this.

[Vittorio Salamdien]

Curses, thought Gapoc would try that. He's left us in a clever way, though. By saying the thing about himself and Sxy at the end he's giving us an obvious hint. TOO obvious. But he might expect us to think that, right? Also, he seems to be bussing Vinoth, but oh well.

Thanks Doros xD

A lot happened while I was out, eh?

DAT STORY TIEM

Shiver me timbers!

VOTE: MrBump

[Vittorio Salamdien]

DAT STORY TIEM

What does this mean?

[DavidParker]

Stef's iso is very unimpressive, and the situational-timing of her posts really does not favor her position very well.

@Vitt: EH. The tone of that (ie: not commiting to anything, just posting random fluff/WIFOM) is kinda scummy but it does seem to be somewhat representative of bump's play as a whole. What do you see in that quote in particular?

[Vittorio Salamdien]

Based on the way I've interpreted gapoc's play/maturity/skill throughout this game I say it's more likely to be an accidental slip, than a trap he left for us. I'd say about 80% sure of this.

I lean that way too.

[MrBump]

Sorry.
What the actual fuck.
VS, explain.
DP, explain.
HOW THE HOLY HELL AM I THE MAFIA
ARE YOU USING YOUR BRAINS
You SAID YOURSELF that planning to sacrifice Mafia D1 was stupid.

YET OH LOOK THAT'S WHAT I WOULD HAVE HAD TO HAVE DONE
DON'T
BE
STUPID
FUCK.

(I'm having a really shitty day today so expect lots of CAPS)

DAT STORY TIEM is my Mafia catchphrase. Most games post a story for flavour, especially themed games. So every game I'm in, before the story, I say "DAT STORY TIEM" because it's story time.

STOP NINJA'ING ME BY GOD

[MrBump]

I say the him thing is ridiculous because you are FoS'ing me PURELY off that, and now voting off reasons I can't grasp the true form of.

[Vittorio Salamdien]

Stef's iso is very unimpressive, and the situational-timing of her posts really does not favor her position very well.

@Vitt: EH. The tone of that (ie: not commiting to anything, just posting random fluff/WIFOM) is kinda scummy but it does seem to be somewhat representative of bump's play as a whole. What do you see in that quote in particular?

"Curses, thought Gapoc would try that. He's left us in a clever way, though. By saying the thing about himself and Sxy at the end he's giving us an obvious hint. TOO obvious. But he might expect us to think that, right? Also, he seems to be bussing Vinoth, but oh well."

It just doesn't smell right. It feels propagandistic. It is filled with ambiguity - it is close to Gapoc, yet wants to distance itself from Gapoc. It is trying too hard to be neutral, to look at Gapoc's death from a supposedly objective viepoint. It

wants

to be seen as impartial.

And the misdirection at SxyBeast suggested to be no misdirection, yet one too. It is all just weird.

[MrBump]

Stop saying "something seems off" etc. It's stupid. Nothing's off. I'm town trying to find scum. The more you use ridiculous arguments, both of you, the scummier look. It may look like OMGUS but seriously, it's annoying.

(ie: not commiting to anything, just posting random fluff/WIFOM)...
...somewhat representative of bump's play as a whole.

Thank you! What was that in aid of? You attacked my play yesterday despite the fact I basically single-handedly killed Gapoc. He only self-voted because of the wall. Do elaborate on why you seemingly think my play is random fluff.

[DavidParker]

Oh I agree it's horrible, but it does seem somewhat representative of his posting style at times. Although that particular post is probably one of his worse.

@MrBump: Explain what? Your defense right now consists of: "HOW CAN I BE SCUM BECAUSE I VOTED FOR GAPOC ON DAY 1 AND BECAUSE I AM USING ALL CAPS AND ACTING OUTRAGED". That's not a defense. You don't defend yourself or make counter-points. You just make points not quite pertaining to what your being accused of but you can use to make yourself look innocent.

For example, I'm saying your unvote of gapoc was MUCH scummier than my unvote. You have yet to really try justify your unvote. Why did gapoc deserve a clean slate? At no point did I say he deserved a clean slate or that we should "start over" with him. Even if someone had said that we should start over, why would you just go along with them? You should have attacked the hell out of them for defending gapoc and suggesting we ignore everything he's done. Oh wait, you did just that, suggest we give gapoc a clean slate (well agree to some extent). HE DIDNT DESERVE ONE. My unvote wasn't to give him a clean slate or to let him start again. You stated that your unvote was. THAT IS SCUMMY. It is also scummy that you were hopping off the wagon of the scummiest person in the game who you even agreed was the scummiest person in the game WHEN HE ONLY HAD ONE VOTE. That makes no sense. WHat makes sense is my unvoting gapoc because he self-voted to L-1 on page 5. I wasn't convinced he was scum although I was strongly believing he was, and knew he was by far the scummiest player in the game, but I wanted more time to look at it. Also, the SE in me wanted to help gapoc regardless of his alignment and stop him from self-voting and giving up. What also makes sense is my revote, GAPOC WAS SUDDENLY ON ZERO VOTES.. I ask myself how the hell can that happen to the scummiest player in a matter of hours? Oh, he's probably scum, and his buddy hopped off the wagon and helped derail it. You then quickly hop back onto it.

Sticking to the topic of defending yourself to the actual attacks made, you play the newbie card. "I make mistakes, i'm a newb", suggesting that my scummy unvote (which wasn't even scummy) can't be seen as a mistake because i'm not a newb. That's not a defense.


Here, I'll address your post (something you don't seem capable of doing to my posts, you only seem to be able to make random outbursts in all caps about how town you are for voting gapoc, when the timing of your votes on him/unvotes could easily see you as bussing scum):

You SAID YOURSELF that planning to sacrifice Mafia D1 was stupid.

Key word: planning. Obviously no one (well very unlikely) plans to bus their partner into getting lynched day 1. But once day starts and your partner is acting scummy as hell, even if no one in the game has picked up on it yet, it makes perfect sense to vote them or throw accusation their way. That's how you play scum. Not to mention there was already strong accusations against gapoc, you weren't doing any scum hunting of your own, you were hopping on the wagon. Sure you stuck to your guns, but you can still be bussing.

YOu know what, i'd buy the "i'm town because i wouldn't bus my scum buddy day 1" card if you hadn't unvoted gapoc when you did. That unvote was just horrible. If you had stayed voting him throughout the whole ordeal, i'd almostly definitly believe you to be town at this point.



PREVIEW EDIT: Major LOL. "Single-handedly killed Gapoc". You definitely are greatly mis-repping the happenings of yesterday. I hate stating how I'm town at times, but in light of you trying to take credit for the gapoc wagon: I started the gapoc wagon initially. Well the serious gapoc-wagon. you voted him for not having an avatar. You left your vote there stating you didn't think anyone was scummy, not even gapoc that much. I was the first one to post genuine suspicions of gapoc. Then, I revived the gapoc wagon when it got to 0 votes (somehow). You then vote him was after my voting him.

[Zachrulez]

Bump.