Newbie 1055 (Game over)

[MrBump]

Parker is contradicting himself and being hypocritical. Meh, my latest posts have been shitty.

FoS's everyone. I FoS Doros for being the least ProTown player EVER and David for the case Stefunny posted.

[MrBump]

A whole night and no posts?
For shame, for shame. Everyone who didn't post on Page 17 is ConfScum. SOUND LOGIC!

[Doros]

Oh right, I didn't say anything more on Doros:

Doros, on her own merits (ie: not in the context of gapoc's scum buddy):
HUGE case here. Absolutely nothing in her posts. States she doesn't know how to scum hunt. Asks how to scum hunt. The wiki's been posted, numerous games are there for browsing, I mean you just seem to fence-sit and ask people what to do all game. Even when its explained she just keeps questioning what she should be doing. It just doesn't seem like town. Even super-newbie-town don't play like this. Seems more like newbie-scum just deciding to play the "HUGE NEWBIE" card and hope it helps them.

Doros, as gapoc's scum partner:
There is ZERO comments from Doros on gapoc once the game actually starts. Their start-game interactions don't really seem strongly like scum-buddy interactions... Ie: Scum pointing out their buddy is online but not posting, but still plausible. Gapoc did unvote right away. However, once gapoc gets under real pressure, doros just starts posting questions about how she should be scum hunting (HINT: TALKING ABOUT GAPOC AND YOUR OPINION ON HIM WOULD BE A GOOD START). Doros also no comment when I ask her who of the 3 of us (me/bump/gapoc) is most scummy in our interactions. "oh its too early"


I have yet to see a single read from Doros.

Also, for the sake of curiosity and now that it's actually game-relevant, what is your gender Doros? Funnily enough the gender issue had been brought up pre-Gapoc's gender-slip, so I'm becoming less convinced it was a slip.

DavidParker, are we having fun? Your HUGE case is just a lot of fluff. Duh, I am a newbie and everyone is unique. This is my first game and this is only Day 2 in a Newbie game. Sure I could do better, but I am learning new stuff all the time. I even posted the manipulation thing you did. I will get better over time. Isn't asking questions what newbies are supposed to do? My opinion is I think it is a good idea for us to do is go back and reread what gapoc has said before because he is the only one who actually knows who the other mafia is. The gender issue has already been discussed and is in some previous post. Thank you.

[Doros]

He didn't manipulate anything... That's the worst defence I've ever seen, Doros...
Also, don't quote a MASSIVE quote and reply with one line

Stefunny raises some great points, but I'd rather go with Doros today. I was suspicious of David's random change in play from nice and friendly to randomly pushing a lynch on me, and his play towards the end of D1.

Wait, hoooold the show.

He re-re-re-re-confirmed his Doros vote, right? He was like 100% certain. He swaps for basically no reason, then at the start of the today votes me. THEN he suddenly remembers "Shit, I'm suspicious of Doros" and makes a case on Doros. HMM.

TODAY WE LYNCH ONE OF THEM
THEN WE LYNCH THE OTHER
THEN WE WIN

Sure he did MrBump. DavidParker cut off the bottom part of Haylen's quote. It was a deliberate act. Everyone could see that unless you want to railroad me. Also, MrBump just contradicted himself. He is suggesting the town lynch both DavidParker and myself. However, in an earlier post (see below) he said it should not be the first course of action. Why is that MrBump? You are saying it is okay to do it to the other town members, but not for yourself, rather hypocritical huh?

Yup, he couldn't grasp the true form of my wall.

Sacrificing two people MIGHT be necessary at a INCREDIBLY RARE time. It is not and never will be our first course of action.

Also Haylen, that really sucks about the college thing D=


STILL WAITING ON

DAT STORY TIEM

[Doros]

@Mrbump/Doros: Of course I didn't manipulate anything, I just didnt quote an entire post because a lot of the post was irrelevant to my point and would just waste space. I didn't manipulate your post to twist your words at all though.

@Mrbump: once again, my reconfirming my vote, was my way of coaching/pointing out that despite my voting Doros and telling her to scum hunt and actually play the game she stopped doing it. That doesn't make me 100% sure she was scum. It just means her response to my vote sucked and I wanted to let her know that.

I switched my vote and case from you to Doros? So what. I'm town, I don't know for sure who the last scum is. I'd say it's one of you two, but I'm not even sure of that. of course I'm going to change my mind at times. Right now I'm pretty sure it's Doros, but I'm still keeping an eye on Haylen as well.

Like I said to MrBump, sure you did DavidParker. Everyone could see that you cut off the bottom part of Haylen's post. You do not want the other people to see the questions which would raise questions if your point is valid. You was trying to make a fellow town member look bad. Who would do something like that? My scumhunting skills will improve over time so you just need to be patient. What else can I say?!

[MrBump]

No, sacrificing two people. Vinoth just suggested killing us both because we were simply arguing. I'm suggesting killing you both because you're scummy.
And that quote didn't MEAN anything, he cut off the bottom as it was visible for all to see anyway. IIRC the whole quote was IN the post too.

Pre-Edit: We've all seen those questions though

[MrBump]

I take back my Page 17 comment.

[Doros]

Thanks David. I'm getting used to the forum tools. The spoiler tag is cool.

Re Doros: when I first got here and was catching up on posts, I developed the dreadful habit of skimming Doros's posts. They were, in the parlance of our town, fluffy (sorry Doros) - they were often without substance. So, I have tended to skim all her posts. I will look at them again. Fluffing, of course, can be very scummy. And Doros's infrequent posts of late could be the fear of being discovered. Mmm, now that I think of it... DavidParker, you have a way of convincing people. It's exactly because I am so easily swayed by your arguments, that I am so skeptical of you. I hope, for the sake of my faith in humanity, that you're not scum.

Of course I made that dig at Doros, about the plural first person 'we' and certainty about survival. It could be a scum slip; it may not be. I was still finding my way and just giving anyone who I thought 'felt' a bit furry a little poke in the ribs. But I will look at Doros again.

Right now, the moment of scrutiny belongs to Sxybeast. There was some weird interaction between her and Gapoc a while back, so I'm just going over that again.

Good hunting!

No offence taken Vittorio Salamdien. I was right that we were all here when Haylen came back, yeah! You may look at me all you like.

[Doros]

No, sacrificing two people. Vinoth just suggested killing us both because we were simply arguing. I'm suggesting killing you both because you're scummy.
And that quote didn't MEAN anything, he cut off the bottom as it was visible for all to see anyway. IIRC the whole quote was IN the post too.

Pre-Edit: We've all seen those questions though

How does Vinoth get involve with this? We were talking about sacrificing two players to catch one of them as mafia. Sure the quote mean something. DavidParker asked why I was answering a bunch of irrelevant questions making me look bad. The reason why the whole quote was there was because I included it. If Haylen's questions were irrelevant MrBump, then why did a number of us answered it? Also, the whole quote was IN the post because I included it my post to show what wasn't included. You got to do better than that MrBump. Your suspicion level just went up.

[MrBump]

The only way that could be suspicious was if I was defending a scumbuddy, oh look, there's only one scum left.

Vinoth suggested sacrificing, you see.
Your quote about the questions was RIGHT ABOVE that, though, so it was pointless to quote it all.

I did say "IIRC".

Saying we're going to choose between two people merely because they are arguing is poor play. I want to lynch both of you because you are scummy. I'd rather go for you first, Doros, though =D

[Vittorio Salamdien]

Apologies, I don't have the time to mount my case right now, but looking through her posts... shivers:

VOTE: SxyBeast

[Vittorio Salamdien]

No offence taken Vittorio Salamdien. I was right that we were all here when Haylen came back, yeah! You may look at me all you like.

The point of my dig was really the 'we' pronoun, which always appears all-inclusive, but can also be exclusive.

I see you have emerged with more sure-footedness in your investigations. Good job.

[MrBump]

Getting an Xbox 360 for my birthday (which is in a week's time but meh) today, so don't expect many posts =D xD

Sxy is scummy, sure, but Doros and David are worse. Looking forward to seeing your case laid out.

[Vittorio Salamdien]

Briefly on SxyBeast:

Some of her posts have an ambiguity in them, where she is 'coaching' Gapoc, but doesn't want to appear too close to him. So the posts work hard to appear neutral. Remember my jibe at her, whether she and Gapoc went to the same school? Posts around that time make me tingle.

Then, this:

"The fact that ur posts continuously including me makes me think u were trying to make us seem like scum partners," (http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.ph ... 4#p2755664)

This is crude misdirection. If Gapoc insinuates a connection with Beast, he does so to throw us off the trail because it would be too obvious. Town would think: that's too obvious misdirection, which is in itself misdirection. In the absence of scum comms during day, Beast needs to show Gapoc that she knows what is going on. But she also has to distance herself from him, or

show the town

that she is not what Gapoc insinuates. But I think she gets it wrong - it just sounds so odd. E.g. "makes me

think

u were

trying

to

make us seem

" - this is circumlocution and mirrors the "complex" misdirection being attempted here. Gapoc is trying to point at Beast to make it seem like he is trying to point at Beast so that town will think he's really pointing at Beast and therefore think that he's not really pointing at Beast?

I anxiously await SxyBeast's response.

[MrBump]

As do I, that quote never rested well with me either.

[DavidParker]

Oh, Sxy has played very scummy but a lot of it seems like more newbie-town to me at times, and not sure what she should be doing. Doros on the other hand is trying to play the newbie-town card making it clear her questioning is because she doesnt know what to do... But really Doros's tone is coming off really scummily especially in recent posts as she is trying to justify her lack of opinion on stuff.

I have to say I am becoming more and more confident in Doros scum.

Mmm, now that I think of it... DavidParker, you have a way of convincing people. It's exactly because I am so easily swayed by your arguments, that I am so skeptical of you. I hope, for the sake of my faith in humanity, that you're not scum.

I'm glad you think so. Part of being town is being able to convince other people(who are town) to vote the person who you think is scum. I'm not asking you to blindly follow me; I'm just asking to look at the reasoning presented to you, and well if you agree with it, then all the better. Being convincing isn't just something scum do.

[Vittorio Salamdien]

I hear you Parker. For now, the weekend has arrived here, so I'm signing off. I might pop in over the weekend, but probably back only Monday.

[SxyBeast]

Hey srry I haven't played guys I just started a new term and it is a b**ch and, to be honest, I also lost track of what day it was and forgot when the night phase ended.

Sxy hadn't even POSTED in the thread by the time we'd voted and unvoted. So how does that rule her out exactly?

I was the second person, excluding the mod, to post on the thread so I have no idea what the f**k ur talking about.

E.g. "makes me

think

u were

trying

to

make us seem

" - this is circumlocution and mirrors the "complex" misdirection being attempted here.

How is that circumlocution? i told him what I thought he was doing and I said it clearly there is no circumlocution in there. Also, I

think

because at that point in time we did not know he was maf so I was not sure what he was doing,

trying

because unless he succeeded that's all it would be is trying, and

make us seem

because that's what it does no one, except maf, KNOWS who is maf, so clearly if u cant know for sure who is maf it only SEEMS they r maf.

SxyBeast: Some genuine town-like posts at time, she didn't unvote gapoc as you claimed, she wasn't on the wagon when he first got to L-1. Also she is the last person I would expect to night-kill Vinoth.

Oh, Sxy has played very scummy but a lot of it seems like more newbie-town to me at times, and not sure what she should be doing.

Hmmm a bit contradictory don't u think? first u say I have town tells then u say oh yes very scummy. that makes no sense. Also y would u think I'm the last person u would expect to kill vinoth? As people have pointed out im not the most talkative, so how do u know anything about me?

Apparently people see my nature to not want to fight and get back on track is scummy so from now on I will stay out of misunderstands and just get a possible townie lynched.

Finally, for this post, I don't know if gapoc put "he" as a scumslip to his partner or to throw us off the trail of a she scum partner but did anyone think that gapoc just put it in as a pronoun that fits it's antecedent? If he had put in a vague "they" it would be incorrect and tying out he/she the whole time is tiring and a waste of time. So in my opinion that whole talk over it was in it self a waste of time.(This is just an add on for people to think about. There is no need to continue this talk and post about this little bit.)

[Stefunny]

I don't think SxyBeast is scum simply because I really think the gender slip up of gapoc was a genuine slip. Especially after rereading it, it seems pretty natural.
Doros hasn't revealed it's gender has it? I guess at this point it is moot because 'it' could say it was a female just to make it less suspicious.

Mr. Bump's role fish was a serious goof. I really hope if there is a cop they don't claim. WAY to early in the game. We were LUCKY with the first scum kill. D1 almost always ends up with a mislynch. I think the interaction between DP and gapoc is still the most interesting.

1) Vinoth was the person I was going to be voting today. He was my #1 pick for Gapoc's buddy, and definitely somoene i found scummy even if gapoc flipped town.

This really isn't a defense, it would be a nice way for you to TRY and make a defense. You made it clear D1 that Vinoth was your next vote, so if you are scum and you kill him it could make you look like "OH GEE I THOUGHT HE WAS SCUM!"

Like I said to MrBump, sure you did DavidParker. Everyone could see that you cut off the bottom part of Haylen's post. You do not want the other people to see the questions which would raise questions if your point is valid. You was trying to make a fellow town member look bad. Who would do something like that? My scumhunting skills will improve over time so you just need to be patient. What else can I say?!

I agree with DavidParker on this point. Here on MS many people don't LOVE wall posts, and he wasn't really erasing any details that were important, just replying to your post. I like to quote only snips that I'm referring to, and I don't think it's necessarily trying to hide anything. A lot of times you just have to take everything in context.

In reference to the spoiler tag; I've noticed a lot of mods around the site don't really like when you do stuff like that. I believe it can be counted as trying to hide wording which most games I've played have rules about. In fact one of the rules of our game is

Do not use any font size other than normal please. I will warn violaters, and will modkill repeat offenders. Don't try to hide text or make it difficult to read either. (Also, absolutely no encrypted text of any kind.)

So even though it looks cool I would advise all to double check before they use it.

[DavidParker]

Using spoiler tags isn't "hiding text" as there's a very obvious drop down menu to show it. Just makes the post look cleaner. "Hiding text" would be using color to make it blend into the background.

@SxyBeast: Re, those 2 quotes. I actually don't think I'm contradicting myself in any way. Newbie-town players (a category i've put you in) often play very scummily and make themselves easy targets by doing certain things, using ATE/WIFOM, using logical fallacies, mindless bandwagoning etc, but there are certain ways they do this and things they say that make them come off as newbie town. Ie: Look at the post of VItt's i referenced where he made some obscure point which came of as very town to me. (Although Vitt isn't in my newbie-town category, but thats something of the sort). I can go back through your posts and reference why I think you're town at this point if you want. And yes, the gender slip I do find more believable than not.

I also find it very interesting/scummy that Doros has refused to answer what his/her gender is, and now that the issue has come up i'm pretty sure she/he would just say female at this point however, but the fact it refused earlier is interesting.

[Doros]

The only way that could be suspicious was if I was defending a scumbuddy, oh look, there's only one scum left.

Vinoth suggested sacrificing, you see.
Your quote about the questions was RIGHT ABOVE that, though, so it was pointless to quote it all.

I did say "IIRC".

Saying we're going to choose between two people merely because they are arguing is poor play. I want to lynch both of you because you are scummy. I'd rather go for you first, Doros, though =D

I wasn't familar with the term "IIRC." Anyways, yes, it started with Vinoth suggesting sacrificing, but it ended up with you making your proclamation:

Sacrificing two people MIGHT be necessary at a INCREDIBLY RARE time. It is not and never will be our first course of action.

and then to....

TODAY WE LYNCH ONE OF THEM
THEN WE LYNCH THE OTHER
THEN WE WIN

...in a very short period of time. How did it went from being "MIGHT be necessary at a INCREDIBLY RARE time" to now lynching one now and the other one later. It is very contradictory MrBump.

[Doros]

I have to say I am becoming more and more confident in Doros scum.

So DavidParker, are you confident enough to follow MrBump suggestion and sacrifice yourself if I am proven to be town?

[Doros]

Like I said to MrBump, sure you did DavidParker. Everyone could see that you cut off the bottom part of Haylen's post. You do not want the other people to see the questions which would raise questions if your point is valid. You was trying to make a fellow town member look bad. Who would do something like that? My scumhunting skills will improve over time so you just need to be patient. What else can I say?!

I agree with DavidParker on this point. Here on MS many people don't LOVE wall posts, and he wasn't really erasing any details that were important, just replying to your post. I like to quote only snips that I'm referring to, and I don't think it's necessarily trying to hide anything. A lot of times you just have to take everything in context.

I see your point Haylen. However, I respectfully disagree that the erased details weren't important. Thanks for answering our questions and clearing things up though!

[Doros]

I hear you Parker. For now, the weekend has arrived here, so I'm signing off. I might pop in over the weekend, but probably back only Monday.

Have a good weekend Vittorio! So I guess the weekends are slower around here, huh?

[MrBump]

The only way that could be suspicious was if I was defending a scumbuddy, oh look, there's only one scum left.

Vinoth suggested sacrificing, you see.
Your quote about the questions was RIGHT ABOVE that, though, so it was pointless to quote it all.

I did say "IIRC".

Saying we're going to choose between two people merely because they are arguing is poor play. I want to lynch both of you because you are scummy. I'd rather go for you first, Doros, though =D

I wasn't familar with the term "IIRC." Anyways, yes, it started with Vinoth suggesting sacrificing, but it ended up with you making your proclamation:

Sacrificing two people MIGHT be necessary at a INCREDIBLY RARE time. It is not and never will be our first course of action.

and then to....

TODAY WE LYNCH ONE OF THEM
THEN WE LYNCH THE OTHER
THEN WE WIN

...in a very short period of time. How did it went from being "MIGHT be necessary at a INCREDIBLY RARE time" to now lynching one now and the other one later. It is very contradictory MrBump.

No.
You are missing the point.

I am not suggesting we sacrifice you because you're arguing. I'm saying lynch one of you because you're scummy. Vinoth was suggesting lynching us to find out if the other was Confirmed Mafia. Now, this would work if say, Gapoc and I had claimed Cop, as one of us was obviously Mafia then. But that did not happen.
I believe both of you to be scum, moreso you, Doros. I'm saying we should lynch one of you today then the other tomorrow as one of you is almost certainly the last scum.


Also ITT Doros once again completely ignores the gender issue.