Mini 1121: Nexusville Mafia.

[Nexus]

Votecount the Fourth:

WeaponsofMassConstruction (4): silavor, _over9000, q21, mongoose
_over9000 (3): mb53, KingTwelveSixteen, ICEninja
mongoose (2): Darth Yoshi, implosion
KingTwelveSixteen (2): neko2086, nameless
ICEninja (1): WeaponsofMassConstruction
Silavor (1): Zdenek

Not Voting: Noone.

With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch. Deadline is 22nd February at 12pm GMT.

As ever, if there are any problems, post in thread or PM me.

Nobody is in need of prodding.

Bumping to top of page.

[silavor]

I'm Vanilla Town. Which is why, to be honest, this was quite an undesirable game for me to replace into. I'm not used to not having a night action.

Newbie 1035
Of course, it turns out he was scum in the end, but he was speaking to DDD about meta things, so I'm assuming he was trying to cash in on a meta he had built. I never actually bothered investigating his past games, though, as I was already dead by that point in the game, so it's entirely possible he was just trying to screw with us back then.

[q21]

-snip-

Hey, 2-for-one deal! I got the entire scumteam- oh, wait, but then how is ICE scum, as well?

Obviously

we have three scum in this game! Or, more likely, we have a bunch of townies nitpicking each other's comments to bits because we're only part way through page 2, and the game's been going for less than 24 hours at this point.

-snip-

This same argument can just as easily be made towards Nameless, since he also managed to get someone to hop on my wagon, Zdenek. The point is, though, unless we have three scum in the game and they would all out themselves so easily, how can we take the case against one of them as "obvscum trying to create a false case", while dropping the others as just being "town pointing out an anomaly"?

-snip-

Scumslip time. Three scum would be the norm for this game. The fact that you suggest, twice in one post no less, that it is more likely that there are only 2 suggests that you know something more than the average townie should.

Unvote, Vote Nameless

Everyone vote Nameless.

[Zdenek]

Wow really? Are you seriously not reading the thread?

Ooops, sorry. When you say,

For nameless, I don't like how he isn't really willing to answer questions. Even if you explained yourself, explain yourself again if asked to. Why not? Don't be difficult.

Are you referring just to the question about what was bothering him about Ninja's posts?

I like q21's catch, but he's quoted Silavor, not nameless.

[_over9000]

I still believe that people are letting WoMC's "trap" off too easily, and all things considered I'm going to leave my vote where it is.

Mongoose, you made a random vote and included /end rvs in post 64. If Weapons voting for ICE is considered non-random, the RVS was approaching its end from post 20. Thats page 1. I really don't like for a bit that you decided to throw in a final random vote when the RVS had been long over on all counts. Especially when there was already some heat on you.

q21 post 127, I find it scummy when someone commands that people vote for someone else. And I'd really like you to go into more detail on how you quoted silavor and voted Nameless.


The fact is that this is pretty much all I have to add, though I'm sure that won't be enough for some people.

[silavor]

-snip-

Hey, 2-for-one deal! I got the entire scumteam- oh, wait, but then how is ICE scum, as well?

Obviously

we have three scum in this game! Or, more likely, we have a bunch of townies nitpicking each other's comments to bits because we're only part way through page 2, and the game's been going for less than 24 hours at this point.

-snip-

This same argument can just as easily be made towards Nameless, since he also managed to get someone to hop on my wagon, Zdenek. The point is, though, unless we have three scum in the game and they would all out themselves so easily, how can we take the case against one of them as "obvscum trying to create a false case", while dropping the others as just being "town pointing out an anomaly"?

-snip-

Scumslip time. Three scum would be the norm for this game. The fact that you suggest, twice in one post no less, that it is more likely that there are only 2 suggests that you know something more than the average townie should.

Unvote, Vote Nameless

Everyone vote Nameless.

I was under the assumption there was two because I'm used to games with two scum in them, but I can see how having 13 players could warrant there being three scum. It's not a scumslip, just a sign of being inexperienced, and an oversight for not paying attention to how many players there were.

And why are we all supposed to vote for nameless? I thought you were talking about me. Do you have some sort of case against Nameless, too?

[Nameless]

SSS?

Sliding Scale of Serious. I used it first in #17.

(On a general level, not directed at Mb53 in particular) I agree with the amount of pressure being put on _over9000, and will definitely consider joining the wagon if he doesn't come through with his promise to post content soon. In my experience, lurking + promising content without delivering = scum.

In my experience, setting yourself up to jump on a wagon for a reason that hasn't occurred yet = scum.

I would also like to hear from both ICE and Silavor, since both are offering conflicting stories on Neil's meta--ICE in 117 is saying Neil showed this kind of disinterest as scum, Silavor in 105 is saying it was that Neil complained about playing VT. Which games are you guys referring to?

So neil1113 is frequently an 'inconsiderate' player. Attempting to dig up dirt in games we aren't playing about people who aren't playing sounds like an attempt to waste townie time.

Everyone vote Nameless.

... huh?

[KingTwelveSixteen]

I still believe that people are letting WoMC's "trap" off too easily, and all things considered I'm going to leave my vote where it is.
...
The fact is that this is pretty much all I have to add, though I'm sure that won't be enough for some people.

1. I am unsure if your "still" from "still believe" is true are not because you didn't mention why you were voting for him earlier.
2. The second point you made was already mentioned by the poster directly above you. Not noticing who you are making a case against and the person you are

telling everyone to vote for

arn't the same guys is pretty bad, but it reads to me like you are just parroting people instead of actually providing content.
3. No, no it is not enough to add. Since you only added a reason for your vote (should have been provided in the first place), a comment on something that happened a bit more than half the game before your post (post 64-129), and something that was mentioned in the post above you, I would say you have barely provided any content at all.

[mb53]

Are you referring just to the question about what was bothering him about Ninja's posts?

Yeah. This/the post below it

I still believe that people are letting WoMC's "trap" off too easily, and all things considered I'm going to leave my vote where it is.

Mongoose, you made a random vote and included /end rvs in post 64. If Weapons voting for ICE is considered non-random, the RVS was approaching its end from post 20. Thats page 1. I really don't like for a bit that you decided to throw in a final random vote when the RVS had been long over on all counts. Especially when there was already some heat on you.

q21 post 127, I find it scummy when someone commands that people vote for someone else. And I'd really like you to go into more detail on how you quoted silavor and voted Nameless.


The fact is that this is pretty much all I have to add, though I'm sure that won't be enough for some people.

Why is WoMC's trap scummy? Use your own words.

Okay, you said you were stupid for posting it. That doesn’t tell me WHY you did it, it just says that posting it was a dumb thing to do.

It seemed like a go idea at the time . I can't go back in time, and remember why I did it, but I probably just thought it would be a good idea to say who is I thought was scummy (and like pointed out later, I had forgotten to mention why I thought nameless scummy earlier, so if I didn't post the list, you guys still wouldn't know I found nameless scummy. So not

all

bad came from the list).

[Nexus]

Votecount the Fifth:

WeaponsofMassConstruction (3): silavor, _over9000, mongoose
_over9000 (3): mb53, KingTwelveSixteen, ICEninja
mongoose (2): Darth Yoshi, implosion
KingTwelveSixteen (2): neko2086, nameless
ICEninja (1): WeaponsofMassConstruction
Silavor (1): Zdenek
nameless (1): q21

Not Voting: Noone.

With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch. Deadline is 22nd February at 12pm GMT.

As ever, if there are any problems, post in thread or PM me.

Noone is due a prod. Yet.

[DarthYoshi]

In my experience, setting yourself up to jump on a wagon for a reason that hasn't occurred yet = scum.

In my experience, showing an open mind to the possibility of new evidence if it presents itself = town.

(And, FWIW, _over9000, you still have posted close to zero content...like, at all. I may agree with your point on Mongoose, but his voting pattern has been under suspicion for a while now. KingTwelveSixteen's assessment of you in point 3 of #132 is pretty accurate.)

So neil1113 is frequently an 'inconsiderate' player. Attempting to dig up dirt in games we aren't playing about people who aren't playing sounds like an attempt to waste townie time.

Because clearly when we are only five days into a D1 with a three-week deadline, whether or not we are wasting time must be a #1 concern, especially concerning a player who, for whatever his successor might do to make amends, still cast a significant amount of suspicion on that playslot. If we were days from the deadline, I might agree with you. But when we're still well over two weeks from the deadline? Nope. Besides, it clearly didn't take Silavor much time to post the link to the game he referred to--if I go and look it up, I'm wasting nobody's time but my own.

It seemed like a go idea at the time . I can't go back in time, and remember why I did it, but I probably just thought it would be a good idea to say who is I thought was scummy (and like pointed out later, I had forgotten to mention why I thought nameless scummy earlier, so if I didn't post the list, you guys still wouldn't know I found nameless scummy. So not all bad came from the list).

Dude, this isn't some hazy memory from early childhood, it was, like, three days ago. And all the benefits you claim could have been achieved if you had simply posted a scumlist rather than a full scumscale, and it would have fulfilled your objective of "to say who I thought was scummy." If you thought it was a good idea because Implosion did it first, then Zdenek's point about you becomes quite a bit more serious.

[mongoose]

Sorry guys, I just fell sick, so I wont be as active as I usually am. I'll try to get contributive posts in when I feel OK, but otherwise, sorry.

[ICEninja]

Alright it is the weekend and I'm going to bring back the contribution.

Firstly, here is the newbie game that neil was scum in.
Newbie 1036
He lurked a lot and was "busy" all the time. He was finally hammered after repeatedly not contributing to the game, and we landed a lurker scum. While he never replaced out, I'm seeing a lot of similarity in his play this game before replacing. I'll judge King by his own contribution, but he's going to be starting from a negative position because of this.

I think out of all the players we have right now, Zdenek is the lurkiest. He drops in every now and then, but doesn't seem to have any strong opinions. His current vote is very outdated and very weak, really, and I haven't seen him give any further reason to be voting Silavor or anyone else right now. Zdenek, who do you find scummy and why?

I don't like, at all, that neil claimed. He wasn't under any pressure to do so, and it seemed to be a bit panicked. If he doesn't like playing a VT, then he probably shouldn't be playing this game because that is the role you're going to get 2/3s of the games you play.

I was under the assumption there was two because I'm used to games with two scum in them, but I can see how having 13 players could warrant there being three scum. It's not a scumslip, just a sign of being inexperienced, and an oversight for not paying attention to how many players there were.

Have you ever played in a mini here before, or is your only mafiascum experience with newbie games?

In my experience, setting yourself up to jump on a wagon for a reason that hasn't occurred yet = scum.

I'll agree with this. While I don't feel like Yoshi is being unreasonable, scum Yoshi could really be giving himself options at this point.

The fact is that this is pretty much all I have to add, though I'm sure that won't be enough for some people.

This is terrible. This right here screams to me "I know I'm scummy but don't vote for me anyway".

Neither Mongoose nor Weapons have done much to dissuade my suspicion of them.

[q21]

Unvote, Vote Silavor

Everyone vote Silavor.

Should have proof read... but I'd been up for 19 hours. I was tired. And Nameless is another sucmread of mine, sadly I mixed them up.

[neko2086]

Sorry all, but I won't have time to get a good post in until tomorrow. I've just finished my phd entrance exam, which was terrifying, and need to do things that require no thought today. I'll be back up to speed tomorrow though.

[Zdenek]

I think out of all the players we have right now, Zdenek is the lurkiest. He drops in every now and then, but doesn't seem to have any strong opinions. His current vote is very outdated and very weak, really, and I haven't seen him give any further reason to be voting Silavor or anyone else right now. Zdenek, who do you find scummy and why?

I think I've been quite clear about who I think is scummy and why. Here's a recap:

I think Silavor is scummy because he gave real reasons for his early vote on WOMC, but in the same post he called it an RVS vote, and later tried to pass this off as a joke. I also like q21's scum-slip catch. By the way, this is a further reason for me to be voting Silavor.

I think mongoose is scummy for prolonging RVS with his random vote on q21, while he had stated that he found WOMC scummy.

I think that mb is scummy because I think that his explanation for placing nameless high on his scum list is contrived, and the only reason he put nameless high on his scum list is because implosion did. He said nothing about nameless until being called out for this, and his explanation is:

For nameless, I don't like how he isn't really willing to answer questions. Even if you explained yourself, explain yourself again if asked to. Why not? Don't be difficult.

I do not believe that "being difficult" is a scum tell, and even refusing to explain yourself isn't one.

Finally, I think WOMC is scummy for trying to explain away his RVS vote as a trap.

[KingTwelveSixteen]

...
I do not believe that "being difficult" is a scum tell, and even refusing to explain yourself isn't one.
...

Wait, since when has purpousfully not answering questions been a null tell? That seem like a scum tell to me.


Also I feel like I should post something about this, since people are still talking about Neil's abandonment possibly being because of his role...
I received a PM from him a little bit ago that explained he was totally messing up because of Real Life Issues. Very

personal

Real Life Issues that I shall not be repeating.

But yeah, I don't think whatever meta he has about roles is actually relevant, and I'm pretty sure he would have done some similiar stuff if he was scum as he did here. Unless somebody here is really good at telling motivations from just flat out bad play I don't think his posts will be very helpful to anyone.

So, yeah.

[KingTwelveSixteen]

Man, re-reading that last post makes it sound like a lame escuse.

Basically Neil PMed me to appoligize for "ruining my game" and to explain why he left. I guess I just wanted to say that Neil had good reason to play badly, and not to speak badly of him becayse when he overcomes his grief and inevitably re-reads this game I don't want his wounds to be reopened from it.

[WeaponsofMassConstruction]

Have been absent, will catch up soon.

[silavor]

Have you ever played in a mini here before, or is your only mafiascum experience with newbie games?

Only newbie games, hence the default assumption there would only be two.

I think Silavor is scummy because he gave real reasons for his early vote on WOMC, but in the same post he called it an RVS vote, and later tried to pass this off as a joke.

It's RVS, why are you taking it so seriously? How is it at all scummy?

[ICEninja]

I don't want to be mean or anything, but that's basically the same thing neil said in that newbie game I linked, that really crazy RL stuff was going on. Perhaps they are linked, and his alignment has little to do with it. Perhaps it is an excuse. I can't really say for sure.

Zdenek, would you continue to find silavor scummy had he not done what 21 "caught" him on?

[Nameless]

In my experience, showing an open mind to the possibility of new evidence if it presents itself = town

In my experience, there's no reason for a townie to go around stating all the townie things that townie is as a townie going to do if they townie present themselves. Townie.

...

= scum.

For the record though, I'm now suspecting DarthYoshi only an average amount; most of his responses are reasonable or else I could imagine a townie making, even if I disagree with them.

More likely scum candidates would seem to be Implosion (see: #94, #113) and mb53; the later makes a lot of posts with little content, often requires prompting to explain anything, changes his first vote very quickly, exaggerates 1/10th of D1 as "all game" and dittos a scumlist without prompting only to allegedly forget why two real days later.

q21 is a dodgy third. Some of his early points are just 'I agree' and the entirety of his last few days scumhunting amounts to jumping up and yelling 'AH HA!' at a careless mistake ... while simultaneously making a careless mistake himself. (Yes I know they're not the same, but it still kind of weakens your argument.)

Also, _over9000 and mongoose need to contribute or get out, but I can't actually read them yet due to lurking.

UNVOTE: KingTwelveSixteen and- Wait. None of my suspects have wagons. >_> brb gonna flip a coin

[Nameless]

VOTE: mb53

[ICEninja]

Nameless, coin flip aside, lets say we're in a situation where it matters. Let's just say, hypothetically speaking, mb and implosion both have L-1 wagons and you're the only remaining player not voting. The deadline is in 2 hours and town loses a lynch if you don't vote. Which do you pick to hammer? Why?

[Nameless]

Actually, after a quick individual read of both, I'd slightly prefer to lynch implosion. It's unlikely - but possible - that mb53 did genuinely post his scumlist on a whim and forget why; at which point his 'I can't go back in time' post becomes a reasonable, if melodramatic, response. But I can't imagine any purpose for implosion to eg. still post questions to an already replaced player other than showing off how much of a detailed, scumhunting town's townie he is. (see: #110 aka "Woo questions that will never be answered.")

That said, I believe it would be more helpful to bandwagon mb53 now, on the basis that he - unlike implosion - has generally needed more prompting to get explanations from.