Open 274: Game Over!

[Hoopla]

so you think fritz is town???

If you've read anything I said today, you would know I believe Empking/Andrew is the scumteam.

[andrew94]

i did talk about empking???

read my iso again.

[Hoopla]

i did talk about empking???

read my iso again.

Link me to the posts that show you genuinely trying to work out his alignment.

[Fritzler]

The Fritzler slot is frankly hard to read due to a lack of info. But I'd say a scum read on him. Fritzler is decently active but does not actually make any cases on anyone, and if he expresses suspicion there is little to nothing to back it up. In fact, his votes on me and Fenchurch both read as straight up bandwagons.

If you look at my 5.5 year history of mafiascum, you would see that I always bandwagon, and it isn't an indication of my alignment. I play to have fun primarily, and lynching people is fun. Although, I also do enjoy winning.

[andrew94]

no. empking i meant that you are known aka pro aka good player aka WILL NOT BE CONFUSED BY HOOPLA

[Fritzler]

I will say, if I was scum, why oh why would I kill Stefunny? She is the only player who never placed any suspicion on me after I replaced, and we are friends, so if I was scum I could have manipulated our relationship to victory, something that has been a hallmark of my play. I.E. this game where the cult was arguing against the serial killer during the game, and we had to agree a townie to side with us. I just begged Claramata to do it until she did. I just begged Clara to join me until she did.

Addendum: I don't know what andrew's last post said, or how to argue with him.

[Da_Mafia_Godfather]

Alduskel: Do you think that Hoopla forgot about the Alduskel wagon she lead or hoping that you won't realize how much that ridicules her argument that only talks about the Fenchurch wagon?
Secondly, I'm pretty sure you at least were aware of my belief that Andrew was town due to it being my main reasoning for putting you as my third suspect.
Thirdly, do yuou think Hoopla is arguing in good faith when she said myself and Andrew could "choose" what happens? (bearing in mind that Hoopla chose what happens.)
Fourthly, according to Fonz and others when you're dealing with Hoopla level players you can basically judge their alignment by the results of their actions. In Hoopla's case her actions resulted in... the best (reasonable) possible situation for scum.
Fifthly, the Fenchurch weagon came out of nowhere. I strongly doubt such a wagon could lead to a lynch so quickly without some of the players working together (i.e being scum.)

[Hoopla]

We need some more Alduskkel up in here.

[Hoopla]

Fourthly, according to Fonz and others when you're dealing with Hoopla level players you can basically judge their alignment by the results of their actions. In Hoopla's case her actions resulted in... the best (reasonable) possible situation for scum.

This is a ridiculously lazy appeal to authority. However accurate you think I am, there will always be games where I'm wrong. This sort of attitude invests zero effort in determining my alignment, because it is something scum (or bad townies) can wheel out whenever it fits. The frustrating thing is, some other players actually deem this a viable way of reading someone, which is nonsense. If you can't understand someone's motivations on any deep level, then you should judge them based on their sincerety or a process of elimination, not this.

I think I have been sincere, and I think I have worked hard in trying to break this game open. I appeal to Alduskkel to consider this, because it is obvious to me that others, namely Andrew and at times Empking, have not attempted to work out other player's alignments, which is a key scum tell. It is exceedingly difficult to feign such townie curiousity, and I think it is starting to show.

[andrew94]

no. empking i meant that you are known aka pro aka good player aka WILL NOT BE CONFUSED BY HOOPLA

this was an 'effort'

[Hoopla]

no. empking i meant that you are known aka pro aka good player aka WILL NOT BE CONFUSED BY HOOPLA

this was an 'effort'

If that is the extent of your effort in this game, then I think my argument is very well justified. Who is Fritz' partner if you think he is scum? How confident are you that Fritz is scum? Could Empking be scum?

[andrew94]

im confident fritz is scum, and one of you/empking is his partners

[Hoopla]

im confident fritz is scum, and one of you/empking is his partners

Who is likelier? I want to see you argue from a scumpairing point of view.

[Da_Mafia_Godfather]

im confident fritz is scum, and one of you/empking is his partners

Bugger, really? The player that went to the ends of the earth to protect Fritz and who claimed that the only pairing that worked were with herself and you doesn't have an edge over little ol' me?

[Hoopla]

Empking, be quiet and let Andrew make his own reasoning - I already know yours. You interjecting now and giving him answers is scummy as hell.

[Da_Mafia_Godfather]

Empking, be quiet and let Andrew make his own reasoning - I already know yours. You interjecting now and giving him answers is scummy as hell.

How did I give "him answers"? If he saw what I saw he couldn't have gone "One of Empking/Hoopla" he would've had to go "Hoopla".

I'm sorry if I don't want the scum who managed to wagon town twice in as many days to have full control of the thread.

[andrew94]

im confident fritz is scum, and one of you/empking is his partners

Who is likelier? I want to see you argue from a scumpairing point of view.

well more likely you but im not discounting empking becos crap happens sometimes.
you were also more nervous when ca was gonna get replaced/ lynched and u said you would find a replacement?

so yea

[Hoopla]

Mod, please plod Alduskkel.

[andrew94]

Please prod the mod too

[BlakAdder]

Alduskkel has been prodded.

[BlakAdder]

Alduskkel has not picked up my prod. I'll wait for the rest of the night until I start looking for a replacement.

[andrew94]

o ffs, its me or fritzler since no1 quick hammer

[Alduskkel]

Errr, sorry for my absence.

Post upcoming.

[Alduskkel]

First of all, Fritzler's meta seems to match up with what he said just taking a cursory glance at this game.

Hoopla: How do you reconcile this quote:

From my perspective, at least one Fritz/Fenchurch is scum - as there is no way the Alduskkel-wagon leading up to deadline was all town.

with your current stance? Walk me through what made you change your mind.

Also, why would scum andrew94 suggest the back-up claiming idea?

Empking even going so far as to sheep off my Day 1 logic of believing Andrew to be town, despite not actually acknowledging these are his explicit beliefs too. This is very subtle and canny play by Empking, when he was guiding me with my process of elimination case late on Day 1.

Can you give me the relevant posts regarding this?

Alduskel: Do you think that Hoopla forgot about the Alduskel wagon she lead or hoping that you won't realize how much that ridicules her argument that only talks about the Fenchurch wagon?
Secondly, I'm pretty sure you at least were aware of my belief that Andrew was town due to it being my main reasoning for putting you as my third suspect.
Thirdly, do yuou think Hoopla is arguing in good faith when she said myself and Andrew could "choose" what happens? (bearing in mind that Hoopla chose what happens.)
Fourthly, according to Fonz and others when you're dealing with Hoopla level players you can basically judge their alignment by the results of their actions. In Hoopla's case her actions resulted in... the best (reasonable) possible situation for scum.
Fifthly, the Fenchurch weagon came out of nowhere. I strongly doubt such a wagon could lead to a lynch so quickly without some of the players working together (i.e being scum.)

1) Hoopla is obviously not bothering to mention herself. I don't expect her to, it is the rest of the players' responsibility to figure out her alignment. That's why she doesn't address herself in her PoE post. So I don't think Hoopla "forgot" about it, just that it's not her place to analyze it. (Seriously, are you asking someone to construct a case on themselves?)
2) Yes.
3) Hoopla's point as I understand it is that since you and andrew94 were under little to no pressure, you could play safely as scum. The reasoning there is solid. I'm not sure what you mean when you say that Hoopla could choose what happens.
4) Being wrong is not a scum tell.
5) Fair point, but a looming deadline can galvanize the town into action without scum needing to necessarily lift a finger.

andrew94: Why is Fritzler scum?
Fritzler: Why is andrew94 scum? Why haven't you voted for him?
Hoopla: Why haven't you voted for andrew94?

[andrew94]

read iso for why fritzler is scum.
nobody quickhammered fritzler.
fristzler is scared to vote me cos 'omgus' , he needs someone (hoopla) to vote