Mafia 126 - Lovers Mafia! [Game Over]

[vezokpiraka]

q21: You have nothing else to comment about your wagon but you just vote another bandwagoner.

What the crap?

Seriously how is this guy not dead yet?

unvote
vote q21

Kise has to wait till tomorrow.

[Purple Orange]

Espy's unvote would be my fault. I told him I was seeing a helluva lot of STUPID from kcda, but not necessarily scum. And that BS was V/LA for the past couple days, not lurking, and that we were jumping on this thing with very little data. Also that I found it hard to believe that a 4-person scum daytalk quicktopic would let kcda behave so darn badly, or be unable to fill him in on the right details. The fact that Emp also didn't like the wagon reinforced my caution.

Espy is wanting to play some stuff close to the chest, here, and I've been disagreeing with him about that too. :p

[SensFan]

Kcdaspot - 6 (Reck, Mariyta, Thingyman, GreyICE, DarlaBlueEyes, Llamarble)
q21 - 6 (Snake, silavor, antihero, Dramonic, Nero Cain, vezokpiraka)
Espeonage - 2 (werewolf555, q21)
Haylen - 1 (Haylen)
Umbrage - 1 (implosion)
silavor - 1 (Purple Orange)
Reck - 1 (Umbrage)
GreyICE - 1 (Baby Spice)

Not Voting - 5 (Tragedy, Kise, EmpTyger, Espeonage, kcdaspot)

13 to lynch

[GreyICE]

Espy's unvote would be my fault. I told him I was seeing a helluva lot of STUPID from kcda, but not necessarily scum. And that BS was V/LA for the past couple days, not lurking, and that we were jumping on this thing with very little data. Also that I found it hard to believe that a 4-person scum daytalk quicktopic would let kcda behave so darn badly, or be unable to fill him in on the right details. The fact that Emp also didn't like the wagon reinforced my caution.

Espy is wanting to play some stuff close to the chest, here, and I've been disagreeing with him about that too. :p

To be perfectly frank, one of the others in the 4 person chat is Baby Spice. Also, 4 person daychat could result in exactly the behavior pattern we're seeing. kcda suddenly started apologizing for his 'shit play' and backed the fuck off of what he was doing before. So, who told him off? Us in the thread? Maybe, but I don't think so. Baby Spice? Uh... yeah. No. So... who?

[Purple Orange]

To be perfectly frank, one of the others in the 4 person chat is Baby Spice. Also, 4 person daychat could result in exactly the behavior pattern we're seeing. kcda suddenly started apologizing for his 'shit play' and backed the fuck off of what he was doing before. So, who told him off? Us in the thread? Maybe, but I don't think so. Baby Spice? Uh... yeah. No. So... who?

Well, yeah. I said all this to Espy, and he unvoted, before kcda made his "sorry for my shit play" post. And I

do

think Baby Spice told him off - you see him "get it"

only after she comes back

. It's possible they're stuck on a scumteam with vezok/Snake or dram/wolf or something, in which case kcda may very well have been left out to dry with zero help anyway until BS returned. But everyone else in this thread seems to "get it" and have some definite opinions on it and be active.

[Purple Orange]

Anyhows - what I was writing before that interruption:

Unvote, Vote: GreyICE

Because Espy sez I can (FINALLY), and because benefit of the doubt has its snapping and breaking point. If it walks and talks and looks like scum...yeah, there's a good chance it's scum. I believe you said this yourself, Grey?

Anti is decently null to me.

But Grey has misreps, ad homs, and the worst facade of aggressive scumhunting I've seen in a long time. Which, meh, might not be so bad in itself, because one can get reactions from a push like that (see benefit of the doubt). But then the final, "oh, ok, people don't seem to be buying this case...let's give myself a backdoor out and say maybe Umbrage is just really bad town...let's turn on a dime and drop this guy and sheep the kcda wagon!" That was pretty darn bad.

Umbrage may very well be scum - not because of Grey's crud case on him/q21, or even because of his defensive reactions (still trying to decide whether it's defensive scum of incensed town), but because of some stuff q21 does later in the thread. Still rather ambivalent about him.

Not so ambivalent about Grey. I pushed him on the lurking/not contributing thing gently earlier, but that was damn serious. Because he was. And when he got aggressive after being called out, he did it BADLY.

[Espeonage]

We have discussed this at length in the QT and it has been brewing for some time.

Vote: Grey

[GreyICE]

*sigh*

Always this. There are four scum teams in the game, but apparently changing your vote from someone you are pretty sure is scum to someone that is most likely scum because there's momentum towards the 'most likely' scum wagon is somehow scummy. I'd say it's a blatant false case, but oddly it's the sort of argument I most often see from townies.

Hey, PO, if there's someone you think has a 75% chance of being scum, and someone you think has a 70% chance of being scum, and there's a bandwagon forming on the 70% chance do you say "NO! I won't contribute to the lynch of someone who seems like scum to me! I'll instead let my vote be useless over here, because lynching scum is against my personal principles!"

Well, apparently that's what town does. I have to admit, fucking bull headed stupidity where you plow forward no matter how asinine is most often a town tell. But what if the town chooses not to be, well, stupid? Baby Spice and kcda have contributed jack shit to the thread. They're scummy as hell. kcda's most recent posts read like a kid with his hand stuck in the cookie jar. "Sorry mommy, it was an accident, I just slipped and the lid was loose and my hand happened to be there. I promise I won't do it again!" Baby Spice's most recent post was... garbage. I don't know what else to call it. I can easily believe Umbrage/q21 are scum AND kcda/BS are scum. Fuck, they even make a good scum team. Despite being the two largest wagons, they barely even MENTION each other. Like 'ooh, better not contribute to that other wagon, lets see if the town wants something else shiny.'

Umbrage and q21 could be really bad town. I can and will believe anything from really bad town, up to and including false claiming power roles, vote hopping, role fishing, soft claiming scum, hard claiming scum (yes, really, townie hard claim Mafia Goon), screaming at the rest of the town, sheeping while criticizing sheeping, blatant hypocrisy, and faking cop investigation results. I find it unlikely because BOTH of their play has been dramatically anti-town, because both of them have contributed jack, and because if I read the ISO of

either one

I just start thinking "scum, scum, scum..."

Kcda and Baby Spice also strike me as scummy, yes, both of them. So here we are. I support both wagons. I don't give a fucking shit if you think that's a scum tell, you'll learn better sooner or later. Hopefully sooner.

[Espeonage]

1. That's not the whole case. My half is coming soon but it is taking ages.
2. Look up the meaning of the word stagnant. Kcd wagon is quickly becoming stagnant and q21's is headed that way as well. They are losing momentum.
3. There over half the day left yet. So don't even try to sell off the, "Why not just go with one of these lovely wagons here" thing you seem to be going for.

[GreyICE]

Espeonage, the days are utterly irrelevant in my opinion. I've said as much in thread. There is a no lynch if we hit deadline. What happens then? Well, night falls. Oh, it's nightless. People die. Oh, there's no scum kill. So fuck your 'half the day left' because that's fucking bullshit, and you're making up nonsense by bringing it up. Since you claim to have read me to have built a case on me, but you used that as a point, well... what the fuck? Unfortunately vast oceans of stupidity are a null tell.

I like the two wagons because I think they're fucking scum wagons. You don't like them, because as far as I can tell, you're a complete idiot who has been tunneled on me for most of today.

[dramonic]

1. That's not the whole case. My half is coming soon but it is taking ages.
2. Look up the meaning of the word stagnant. Kcd wagon is quickly becoming stagnant and q21's is headed that way as well. They are losing momentum.
3. There over half the day left yet. So don't even try to sell off the, "Why not just go with one of these lovely wagons here" thing you seem to be going for.

except they are actually good wagons.

In case you missed that, half the players are voting that lover pair, there's PROBABLY a good reason for that, wouldn't you think?

The kdcaspot wagon should

Vote: Q21

[Purple Orange]

Umbrage may very well be scum [...] because of some stuff q21 does later in the thread.

And also some stuff Umbrage does a bit later.

To avoid vagueness here: didn't like q21's ISO 5
* Lotta people make excuses for their absences. But the only time I've felt the need to make a point of saying I saw the game as a commitment, honest! was when I was scum. (kcda also gets major scumpoints for something similar in his latest post).
* The really wordy and roundabout storybook way he took of saying the DARN SIMPLE THING of "Reck could have deleted the conversation." Can I pinpoint exactly why this makes me uneasy? Not really. But it does. Best shot I can give is that it reads like him going, "oh look I'm generating a long post of content!"

Later Umbrage stuff:
* Umbrage distances himself from "the town" a lot with the language of his posts. I know he could do this as frustrated town as well, like most of the defensive stuff -- but I read this element in more a scumleaning way than a townleaning way.
* People have EVERY RIGHT to dismiss a post with the one-word answer "scum." And other people have every right to call them on it later, especially after a flip or two. Call them idiots, but saying they have "no right" just reads like you going, "fine, I'm scum, BUT I CAN'T BELIEVE YOU'RE GETTING AWAY WITH THIS STUPID SHORTCUT! YOU DIDN'T DO IT THE RIGHT WAY!"

[xRECKONERx]

Not responding to EmpTyger anymore.

[GreyICE]

Okay, since Dramonic just made this mistake, the lists have become relevant again:

Lover List

12/12 claimed - semi in order claimed

EmpTyger - Thingyman
GreyICE - Antihero
Llamarble - DarlaBlueEyes
Implosion - Kise
xRECKONERx - Nero Cain
VezokPiraka - SnakePlissken
q21 - Umbrage
Maryita - Tragedy
Kcdaspot - Baby Spice
PurpleOrange - Espeonage
Haylen - Silvador
Werewolf555 - Dramonic (last... and possibly least)

List of the Useless

Post useful things to get off this list.

dramonic

Nero Cain

(See: Lover) (Still: Post Moar)

Vezok Piraka

(Lifetime achievement award)
kcdaspot
werewolf555

implosion

(replacing out)
SnakePlisskin (Team effort award)
Llamarble (Team effort award)
DarlaBlueEyes (Team effort award)
Kise (new member award) (has not posted shit since the drama)
Haylen (new member award) (QQ MOAR award)

Weird Ass Teams

kcda/BS

- I just want something that isn't scummy... anything, really...

Umbrage/q21

- can we sing the scum song? Because they're really scum

Vezok/Snake

- Combined content = virtually nothing

Llamarble/DarlaBlueEyes

- Combined content = failboat

Scumslips - did Haylen forget who her partner was in the 4 man QT and assume it to be Baby Spice when she made the statements about needing Baby Spice's opinion? I'd think BS would want it under the radar if she did, but why Haylen, just

whhhhhyyyyyy

[dramonic]

... You know I'm not paying enough attention wehn i thought kdca and q21 were lovers -_-;

still okay with my vote though, umbrage is an everplenty fountain of noise.

[Antihero]

I actually don't see how his post is any worse (well, aside from his complete failure to grasp the issue) than the rest of the people who were picking a side in this thing. Mariyta's 200? Espy's 302? Umbrage's 316? (leaving out dram, as I'm told that's a special case). LOL, what about me saying I read Reck as sincere? People have been calling people town all thread, and sometimes very strongly.

It's all in the context. einstein's vote seemed more white-knightish than the others, and the post to me read as overly critical of Reck for really no good reason.

[Umbrage]

Fucking MS, always loses my posts.

Reck's 180 on the Kise issue troubles me. I don't see how it makes sense to suddenly decide Kise must've mixed up the conversations. That would be the first explanation to come to my mind. Now though, he's voting Kcdaspot basically for just bringing the issue up again.

Esp/PO are likely town from my POV. They've put in some solid play. DBE could be scum, but I need more content to be sure.

[SnakePlissken]

Sorry, theres so much to read up on and I got a bit fed up on the pointless arguement several pages back. Content wise it's hard to pick anything that doesn't stand out as a lot does, currently I don't have the time to post all my thoughts so I'll read back a bit and work in sections from there, this could take a few days...

[GreyICE]

Fucking MS, always loses my posts.

Reck's 180 on the Kise issue troubles me. I don't see how it makes sense to suddenly decide Kise must've mixed up the conversations. That would be the first explanation to come to my mind. Now though, he's voting Kcdaspot basically for just bringing the issue up again.

Esp/PO are likely town from my POV. They've put in some solid play. DBE could be scum, but I need more content to be sure.

HEY UMBRAGE, WHAT DO YOU THINK OF KCDASPOT AND HIS PARTNER BABY SPICE? THIS IS NOT A FUCKING RHETORICAL QUESTION.

[Purple Orange]

There are four scum teams in the game, but apparently changing your vote from someone you are pretty sure is scum to someone that is most likely scum because there's momentum towards the 'most likely' scum wagon is somehow scummy. I'd say it's a blatant false case, but oddly it's the sort of argument I most often see from townies.

You're right, and I'll drop this insofar as it goes. I don't, or at least shouldn't, have a problem with people switching to another wagon they also think is scummy.

Influencing my judgment on this is the fact that all

I

see from BS/kcda at that point are "mountains of stupidity." Why the heck would you abandon a case on someone you apparently thought was awesomely scummy enough to go on for two frikkin pages yelling at him that he was scum, to jump on a weak case like BS/kcda? Something wasn't right, something didn't compute there, and, yeah, I read something there as insincere. Dislike the "maybe he's awful town" dropped in the middle of things, because it conflicts with everything else you'd vehemently said and maintained about him, both before and after.

You made a crud case, whose only real notable element is that it's over-the-top in-your-face aggressive, after you got called out for doing not much of anything. Color me suspicious.

I find it unlikely because BOTH of their play has been dramatically anti-town, because both of them have contributed jack, and because if I read the ISO of

either one

I just start thinking "scum, scum, scum..."

Pushing and clarifying the "Reck or Kise is lying" case is jack? Seriously - bulletpoint/quote/whatever summary of all the scummy things Umbrage has done, sans hyperbole. Because your initial case was shit. If your reason for going after them is gut...well, great, yay gut? Mine admittedly tends to suck.

EBWOP: ...ok, I'll give you that 491 is scummy.

[Purple Orange]

kcda's most recent posts read like a kid with his hand stuck in the cookie jar. "Sorry mommy, it was an accident, I just slipped and the lid was loose and my hand happened to be there. I promise I won't do it again!" Baby Spice's most recent post was... garbage. I don't know what else to call it.

Baby Spice's latest post was completely dreadful. Not one good point in the whole thing, and the vote on you in it was made for 99% bad reasons. Like...wow. Was it

scummy

awful, though?

kcda's latest post WAS scummy. Not for the zomg apology, but for the "I'll try to do a good job for the sake of the town" bit.

[Umbrage]

Kcd looks to be playing to his town meta, from the one game I played with him, and I don't notice anything unusual or scummy for him. He might go inactive or become unhelpful for a while. He can be really arrogant, then suddenly doubt himself. The weird thing is, he's really a tremendous asset, he ended up winning the game for town. Baby Spice needs more content, but what's there looks like sharp pro-town play.

[Kcdaspot]

Kcd looks to be playing to his town meta, from the one game I played with him, and I don't notice anything unusual or scummy for him. He might go inactive or become unhelpful for a while. He can be really arrogant, then suddenly doubt himself. The weird thing is, he's really a tremendous asset, he ended up winning the game for town. Baby Spice needs more content, but what's there looks like sharp pro-town play.

Have yet to have that "spark" you're mentioning. And that DID come later in the game. Just for everyone I act on action rather words. Words can be construed 1,000 ways by when put towards actions they gain a better meaning. D1 has the MOST words but little actions. I might be useless here. I'm trying to read and keep up. Not that easy a task but I've done it before... in a game with Fate. THAT WAS FUN. *twich*

[xRECKONERx]

Reck's 180 on the Kise issue troubles me. I don't see how it makes sense to suddenly decide Kise must've mixed up the conversations. That would be the first explanation to come to my mind. Now though, he's voting Kcdaspot basically for just bringing the issue up again.

Look at it from my perspective: Kise went on an assault on me, based on false pretense. I immediately assumed it was a malicious lie, and I did everything I could to defend myself. After agreeing to take a step back from the game and calm down a bit, I could see that it perhaps wasn't as malicious as I thought originally.

PS, I'm not voting Kcda for bringing it up again, I'm voting him for pretending to know what was going on and parroting other people's opinions on the me vs. Kise thing...without ever actually reading me vs. Kise.

[implosion]

Yeah. It's probably better for the game if I just replace out.

Mod, request replacement.

Sorry.