Cold War Mafia - GAME OVER!!

[Sotty7]

Amrum replaces PoisonIvy. Thanks!

[ThAdmiral]

To speak of suspects, I feel pleased in being able to agree with my predecessor about Furcolow. As I was reading, I often saw him say and do things that would've gotten anyone else lynched, but from a village idiot they are somehow tolerated. Now, I can understand some people having town reads on him, since his town play can be atrocious, but if Furcolow survives this game after doing all this I am going to be very unhappy. Doing stupid things is one thing, but doing blatantly anti-town things and hiding behind a meta of stupidity is another. Evidently, this is not enough to convince people of him being scum though. Nothing ever seems to be... and I've seen people believe Furcolow town even after he murdered a townie in broad daylight.

Examples or this is just mudslinging.

While the early wagon/case didn't look that great, neither did ThAd's response to said case.

Which response? Why didn't it "look that great"?

@ lmp: You haven't really commented on my response to your case against me. Did you read it?

[bvoigt]

Thad, jmj, gonnao... make one of them dead, now.

This game needs a flip.

Agreed, especially if it's a gonnano flip. The only thing I'd want before the day ends is a content post from jmj.

[ThAdmiral]

@ llamafluff: I'd like to see more content from you. You seem to be somewhat cruising in this game.

[Amrun]

Hi, I'm the new replacement. Give me some time to read the backlogs.

[Feysal]

As promised, here is my case on Furcolow, hidden with spoiler tags because of its length.

Spoiler: Furcolow case

For starters, my experience playing with Furcolow consists of two games. One of them is ongoing so I can't talk about it, but Furcolow was town there. The other was Mafia Holographica where Furcolow was scum. It was there that I discovered how stubbornly people can ignore scumtells from village idiots, dismissing them because of their poor playstyle. At the end of the game, Furcolow shot another player who everyone agreed to be confirmed town, and this

still

did not convince the other townies of Furcolow being scum. Consequently I was the only townie who survived, but I was outgunned and endgamed. Lesson of the story is you should never excuse scummy behavior from village idiots because of their playstyle, unless you want to be stabbed in the back when they turn out to be scum.

Furcolow of course started the game with his random questions and no vote. The first two questions were harmless enough, but the third was akin to massive role fishing. LMP noticed this in #18, and Furcolow's response in #74 suggests he was right. If Furcolow intended to break the game with the responses to question three, he was role fishing. And what is this?

Right. However, I don't believe we should scream at the top of our lungs where we are from.

Is anyone open to a nameclaim? Do you feel scum have fake nameclaims?

First Furcolow expresses an opinion against claiming, and later he suggests claiming himself. This seems dishonest to me, like the first opinion was only posted to appear town after being accused of role fishing, only to start role fishing later. Contradicting your own opinion while doing something anti-town? Very scummy.

I'm also bothered by how Furcolow made a single post and then disappeared for a full day. His explanation was that it was a reaction test, and he later defended his questions by saying random votes were a distraction. I've seen this before.

I like early-game reaction-tests as town, PoisonIvy.

The last time I heard Furcolow say this he was scum and he had just shot at me. His claim of liking reaction tests

as town

gets him no town credit whatsoever from me. And while we're on the subject...

I love how all 3 votes on me were sheeped, and only pappums rat has even

tried

to defend his vote on me
It's really just laughable to me that I was even wagoned for RQS whatsoever. If anything, the town should thank me. RVS is a distraction.

Angling for town credit here, but what really struck me as scummy was his claim of RVS being a distraction. It seemed like an awfully convenient view to take in this situation, and I've not seen Furcolow say this before in other games. Has someone else?

Overall, the way Furcolow started his game was almost exactly the same as in Mafia Holographica as scum. Start with an anti-town reaction test, then disappear for about a day. To his credit, asking questions is less anti-town than shooting without provocation.

Tell me this, also: Do you expect I would have collaborated with my scumbuddies, if I had any, before posting?
Because I posted immediately.

Furcolow was also first to post in Mafia Holographica. In that game the scum had been talking before the game started, and they could've done that in this game too. Since the scum have no daytalk, Furcolow could not have collaborated with fellow scum after the day started anyway, and so it does not matter when he posted.

Well, I assumed they have daytalk. I forgot I even said that, but I won't backtrack on it. All I was saying was that I figured I would wait on some coaching, regardless of whether or not it came in-thread or out, if I was scum.

I didn't do that.

Furcolow did not do it in Mafia Holographica either, where the scum did have daytalk and coaching would've been possible off-thread. In that game, Furcolow shot at me six minutes after the day started. Coincidentally, that is exactly how long it took him to post in this game too. Lying about his meta to appear town is just horrible.

Actually this makes Fur amazingly likely to be town since scum would have known this, and probably pointed it out instead of saying "I just assumed scum have (full) daytalk".

I'm surprised by LlamaFluff taking this stance. Particularly after just recently finishing The Return to Liten, where both HackerHuck and MagnaofIllusion feigned ignorance of daytalk as scum. I saw that you noticed. ThAdmiral suspecting Furcolow over this made more sense to me, he was in that game too.

Next, a look at the scumhunting Furcolow has been doing.

She walls as town, and I have yet to see a wall from her.
Until I see a good, solid, town wall from her, I will be voting her.

Vote: PoisonIvy

This is bad, but at least it is a reason, and this is typical for Furcolow. Moving on.

I am going to put my vote on the first alphabetically to have not posted.

Not so typical any more in my opinion.

Nothing has really struck me as scummy other than not hearing from PoisonIvy.

I hate to have been competing wagons with her D1 two times in a row, perhaps I should self vote.

I am considering voting myself because it is detrimental to the town, but so is voting for me. I'm just going to have to trust in my own ability to scumhunt and pull off a win for the town.

Vote: PoisonIvy

for the reason of survival.

Worse and worse. Voting someone for survival is blatantly anti-town, and threatening to self vote is no better.

Well, I've seen her as town, and this is not her as town.
I do not want to have to claim, but my survival is good for the town.

Who said anything about claiming? Can you link me to the meta you refer to?

How is my linking to the game in which she was town and walling helpful if you're going to be away for 2 days? That's like saying "give me a way to help me paint her as scum or defend her making me appear town when I'm not" to me.

Vote: julienvonwolfe

Common sense says if you're going to use meta arguments, you should share that meta if asked. Not Furcolow though. Note that he never did share his meta. He was asked a second time, and again he refused, in #200. It was gonnano who found that game and posted the link.

It only goes downhill from here. Furcolow votes ThAdmiral, jmj3000 and gonnano without even giving reasons why. I'm used to Furcolow having poor reasons for his suspicions when he is town, but at least they are reasons, and here he has given barely any. He has played the martyr, appealed to emotions, used self-meta, derided the people on his wagon as sheep, and generally shown interest only in staying alive. He has dodged questions repeatedly, and often voiced suspicion of the people trying to question him. His random scumread of smargaret in #222 is particularly atrocious. I also don't like this one at all:

However, you have not been flailing and walling all over the thread, it feels more like you are getting coached and your wagon is getting deterred by Pappums Rat. I'm not pushing this as being a complete associative tell, as he really might have just wanted to flip flop three times in a row as town, but I view THAT as being way more anti-town if PoisonIvy flips scum (which I believe she will!)

Furcolow seems to have forgotten that pappums rat, aka my predecessor, only changed his vote once to PoisonIvy, and then back to Furcolow. Furcolow himself has been switching back and forth between PoisonIvy and other people three times. Of course, this is not so odd for him. I've seen Furcolow make 17 votes during a single day phase, on 7 different people.

But in my opinion, the very worst Furcolow has done this game is this:

Let's lynch DavidParker.

I'm perfectly fine with a DavidParker lynch.
I've been saying that all game.

*snip*

Very informative post. I was really null on you up until this point, congrats.

The first call for DavidParker to be lynched came out of nowhere. Furcolow had never said anything about suspecting him, or why. The second quote of "saying that all game" was simply not true, as Furcolow had mentioned it exactly once, without even voting. But the third quote takes the cake. It is the only time Furcolow has ever said anything about his read on DavidParker, and he still does not say whether he finds DavidParker town or scum. Anyway, if he had a null read on him until that point, his two calls to have DavidParker lynched don't add up. They don't make any sense, not even in Furcolow terms. This looks like an obvious scumslip, where Furcolow forgot which townies he had voiced suspicion of. I'd like to see him explain this, but I'm not holding my breath.

Short version of the above: Furcolow has shown more interest in self-preservation than scumhunting, his scumhunting has been exceptionally atrocious, and he has contradicted himself. Twice.

Vote: Furcolow

Now, some questions:

@Furcolow:

What the hell is this?

Can you give any excuses for your play? Can you explain your suspicions of smargaret, or any of the people you've voted without giving reason for it? And what is up with you wanting to lynch DavidParker, when according to your own words you did not even have a read on him?

And don't even think about pulling that "I don't cater to scum" shit to get out of answering. You've got a lot of explaining to do.

@Everyone else: Can you give any reason why Furcolow should not be lynched after all this?

[Stephoscope]

As promised, here is my case on Furcolow, hidden with spoiler tags because of its length.

That's a fairly convincing case.

I'll also mention that in 426, he FOS's bvoigt, who I still think is quite scummy even though others apparently haven't seen it, and I suspect this is bussing (not in anticipation of a bvoigt lynch, but rather "clearing" bvoigt in the event of his own lynch). His mention of "bussing" in that very post makes me suspicious also, even though admittedly there's WIFOM there.

[LlamaFluff]

@ llamafluff: I'd like to see more content from you. You seem to be somewhat cruising in this game.

Classes are kicking my ass right now. I have at most 90 min of break from when I wake up to at least 6PM monday through thursday. This game which is just a couple dozen people running around after shiny stuff doesnt make me want to say with it as much. This game is all over the pace enough to need a lynch before it just apathys to death.

[bvoigt]

@Everyone else: Can you give any reason why Furcolow should not be lynched after all this?

I still think he town-telled here:

the last game I was scum, I had daytalk, so I'm used to that.
I did not know they didn't have daytalk.
Sorry if my comments were skewed to be viewed as trying to organize amongst scum, that is not the case.

He could have just pointed out that scum did have daytalk, so it seems that he actually didn't know they had daytalk for 24 hours. I know you mentioned that Magna and HackerHuck faked something similar in a previous game, but MOI and HH are both experienced, outstanding players...I really don't see Furc gambiting like that.

[LlamaFluff]

@Feysal - bvoigt already said that. When I called him out on daytalk, furclow responded that scum must have full daytalk, while the response from the mod suggests that night talk was not constant for everyone. The only way I can see fuclow as scum from that is if he is scum with daytalk and there is a mason/neighbor group that can only nighttalk. Furc alignment depends entirely on scum having daytalk. If he was scum with no daytalk, he would have just pointed to "scum could only talk for 24 hours".

[DavidParker]

Because he's intentionally lurking.

Because he is stalling.

Because the content he did promise was useless content that would only serve to make him seem "pro-town" (A re-read and iso of EVERY player 15 pages when we are still day 1 of a large-game??? That's fucking useless).

His only line of thought when he has been posting has been, "okay I'll just stall as long as possible, maybe post content later, but I don't want to do any now, but I'll make my promsied content seem really good and juicy (mass iso) so that I don't become under suspicion for intentionally lurking".

This lynch is awesome.

Your post is illogical to me. Why wouldn't you rather the slot get replaced with someone useful and lynch someone who is actually behaving scummy?

BECAUSE JMJ IS "ACTUALLY BEHAVING SCUMMY"

[LimMePls]

Because he's intentionally lurking.

Because he is stalling.

Because the content he did promise was useless content that would only serve to make him seem "pro-town" (A re-read and iso of EVERY player 15 pages when we are still day 1 of a large-game??? That's fucking useless).

His only line of thought when he has been posting has been, "okay I'll just stall as long as possible, maybe post content later, but I don't want to do any now, but I'll make my promsied content seem really good and juicy (mass iso) so that I don't become under suspicion for intentionally lurking".

This lynch is awesome.

Your post is illogical to me. Why wouldn't you rather the slot get replaced with someone useful and lynch someone who is actually behaving scummy?

BECAUSE JMJ IS "ACTUALLY BEHAVING SCUMMY"

WHERE!? Other than his inability to post (which he is claiming has outside factors)? If it's the inability to post, then your case DOES boil down to a lurker/policy lynch, despite your protestations to the contrary.

[Furcolow]

@Everyone else: Can you give any reason why Furcolow should not be lynched after all this?

I still think he town-telled here:

the last game I was scum, I had daytalk, so I'm used to that.
I did not know they didn't have daytalk.
Sorry if my comments were skewed to be viewed as trying to organize amongst scum, that is not the case.

He could have just pointed out that scum did have daytalk, so it seems that he actually didn't know they had daytalk for 24 hours. I know you mentioned that Magna and HackerHuck faked something similar in a previous game, but MOI and HH are both experienced, outstanding players...I really don't see Furc gambiting like that.

thanks
i was going to have to use the "you're just mad because I beat you as scum, so you are improperly riding my ass and viewing me in a different light than you were going to be" defense. Thanks for the defense, I don't even feel a need to post a detailed defense now.

Considering I'm in multiple games, and really split up my time terribly, having just read a Feysal-wall that wasn't meant to break the game but was really derived from a policy-lynch is completely different than I have seen out of him as town. I feel like it was scummy and ill-motivated. What do you think, bvoigt?

unvote
vote: Feysal

[Nachomamma8]

Sorry for being absent, but my vote on ThAd still is looking as wonderful as ever. Did anyone need an update on the case?

[DavidParker]

The fact he is posting an inability to post is a contradiction. He has stalled in every single one of his posts. Claimed some outside reason, but fact is he has had time to read the thread (ie: he responded to my accusation, but making some excuse for lurking) so it's obvious he read the thread> he could at the VERY LEAST post who he finds scummy even without a case. He hasn't even done that. He has stalled stalled stalled, when he's proven he at least has some time to make a post, but just chooses to not post any opinion or content when he could. Similarly, the content he did promise in these posts (posts designed to stall) was content that wasnt going to be very useful for town at all.

[RedCoyote]

The game is being pulled in far too many directions. 11 different people currently have votes on them. This is unacceptable. We're going to need to consolidate. We can start with eliminating silly, unattainable prospects like Lowell, Pie, bvoigt, and XScorp. None of these players will be lynched today if I have anything to say about it.

[Furcolow]

fair point RC
ill join you

vote: amrum

[Lowell]

The fact he is posting an inability to post is a contradiction. He has stalled in every single one of his posts. Claimed some outside reason, but fact is he has had time to read the thread (ie: he responded to my accusation, but making some excuse for lurking) so it's obvious he read the thread> he could at the VERY LEAST post who he finds scummy even without a case. He hasn't even done that. He has stalled stalled stalled, when he's proven he at least has some time to make a post, but just chooses to not post any opinion or content when he could. Similarly, the content he did promise in these posts (posts designed to stall) was content that wasnt going to be very useful for town at all.

I actually agree with this. If there's one thing Lowell knows, it's lurker types. jmj's posts definately have that vibe of someone who just wants the attention to go away.

unvote, vote jmj

Regardless, it's not clear why LMP is upset about this case. Worst that happens is put pressure on a lurker, best is we kill scum. Right?

[Furcolow]

lowell is effectively trying to quell the momentum of myself voting someone who is probably being replaced as scum because they didn't fit their town meta as scum. It's tough to fake it.

I am viewing Lowell, then, as being Amrum's partner-in-crime, trying to wagon jmj a town-VI.

[Lowell]

Yeah I'd obviously vote PI as well if it comes to that, but nice try. Very dramatic.

[Furcolow]

"if it comes to that" implies bussing
- going to lay down, will grill you from my phone

pretty sure you just scumslipped

[Sotty7]

Day I, Vote Count XI

Amrun - 4 -

XScorpion, Beasts of the Sea, RedCoyote, Furcolow

bvoigt - 1 -

Stephoscope

ThAdmiral - 5 -

Nachomamma8, EGL, LynchMePls, LlamaFluff, smargaret

XScorpion - 1 -

Amrun

GhostWriter - 1 -

ThAdmiral

Lowell - 1 -

gonnano

InflatablePie - 1 -

Artem

gonnano - 2 -

bvoigt, InflatablePie

jmj3000 - 4 -

DavidParker, GhostWriter, Scott Brosius, Lowell

Furcolow - 1 -

Feysal

Not Voting - 3 -

jmj3000, Fuzzyman, Sathoris

With twenty-four of you alive thirteen votes will lynch. The day will end on Sunday February 20th at 9am GMT.

EGL and XScorpion have been prodded.

[Feysal]

Hey, Furcolow... Remember these?

You know, instead of voting me, you guys could ask me things

I am here, ready to answer any question.
I don't see how I am dodging anything important.
If you feel smargaret is important, I guess we aren't on the same page, as I don't cater to scum.

When you were being wagoned, you wanted to be asked questions. However, when questions were asked, you kept dodging them and often called whoever questioned you scum, like smargaret in that above quote.

I was going to have to use the "you're just mad because I beat you as scum, so you are improperly riding my ass and viewing me in a different light than you were going to be" defense. Thanks for the defense, I don't even feel a need to post a detailed defense now.

Considering I'm in multiple games, and really split up my time terribly, having just read a Feysal-wall that wasn't meant to break the game but was really derived from a policy-lynch is completely different than I have seen out of him as town. I feel like it was scummy and ill-motivated. What do you think, bvoigt?

So, instead of the excuse you used to get out of answering smargaret, you're trying to use another.

And

you claim to suspect me in response. Exactly like I said in my case you've been doing.

Don't think I would not notice your use of rhetoric to try and discredit my case, by calling it "improperly riding your ass" and "derived from a policy-lynch". Your play in this game has been intensely scummy, and having seen your scum play, I strongly believe this is it. Your attempt to wriggle out of answering for your play is both pathetic and obvious.

Your accusation that I would be scum for not devoting my time and energy into breaking the game is ridiculous. I tried that in Mafia Holographica, but that was a heavily themed game with special mechanics that could be gamed. This game is much closer to normal mafia games, and trying to break this setup would be a colossal waste of time. Here I will hunt scum, and you are, by a wide margin, the scummiest person in the entire game.

Questions:

1. What caused the flip-flop in your attitude toward claiming? You started by vaguely role fishing, then spoke against claiming, then suggested claiming yourself.
2. Why did you lie about your meta? I've seen two cases where you used self-meta to try to appear town, when I have seen you behave exactly the same as scum. In fact, I have seen you behave that way only as scum.
3. Why do you believe smargaret is scum?
4. Why did you not give reasons for suspecting ThAdmiral, jmj3000 and gonnano when you voted them? Did you think it was reasonable to vote jmj3000 for not delivering, only two hours after his promise of content?
5. Why did you want DavidParker lynched? Why did you lie about saying that all game? If you wanted him lynched, why did you not vote him? How could you want him lynched when, according to your own words, you did not have a read on him?

I have no idea why other players have allowed you to get away with your play this long. I won't let the matter rest. I require answers, and I require them today. I won't be satisfied with you stalling for time, waiting for night so you can consult with fellow scum.

You said you were ready to answer any questions. I'm asking questions now, and I want your answers.

He could have just pointed out that scum did have daytalk, so it seems that he actually didn't know they had daytalk for 24 hours. I know you mentioned that Magna and HackerHuck faked something similar in a previous game, but MOI and HH are both experienced, outstanding players... I really don't see Furc gambitting like that.

I'm not really sold by this. What MoI and HH did was not much of a gambit, they just claimed not to know scum had daytalk. All Furcolow would have to do here is claim ignorance, and truth be told, Furcolow being ignorant would be completely natural. Even he would've understood that claiming knowledge that the scum had no daytalk would've looked bad in his position.

My suspicions and vote will stay. I still want to hear answers from Furcolow.

[Amrun]

I just finished a full read, and as usual when I replace into a game in this situation, I somehow end up replacing the scummiest character that isn't actually scum and replaced out because they couldn't take the heat...

Defense of myself:

My predecessor, PoisonIvy, made a lot of mistakes. All I can say is that she is most likely not from US or Russia, and therefore her country was probably not involved heavily in the Cold War. To me, it seems like it would be quite easy to make a mistake after skimming the role PM, since I have seen the same role PM, Anyone reading it carefully shouldn't have made that mistake, but I don't think she is a native English speaker (and therefore, reader) and probably has little knowledge of the Cold War. Others have pointed out why her "slip up" is probably just a mistake and I'm just re-affirming that.

And for the record, she is definitely not Godfather. Hahahaha ... I laughed sadly when I saw her begging for investigations.


Now, for my reads on other people:

Town reads:
Beast of the Sea
RedCoyote
LlamaFluff

^^ Top two outlined solid cases in a way that really came off as town to me. LF, on the other hand, shut down discussion in a strange way, but he shut down discussion on PI, and as I KNOW "I" am town, there is no possible scumtell in this for me. Scum simply would not do that.

Scumreads:
Fuzzman (1 post with a weird flavorclaim? Really?)
ThAd (less for the weakish case against him and more for his strange reactions to pressure)
jmj (very slight -- would not vote for him at this point, but his reactions to pressure are super rage, which is odd)
GW (He seems to be delighting in a blatant refusal to scumhunt.)


I'm also getting slight towns off of DP (meta, but I don't really trust meta) and Feysal (good case against Furcolow).

I'm null on Furcolow for several reasons. As others have pointed out, Furc's discussion of daytalk reads as a towntell... But as Feysal outlined nicely, which I was thankful for since now I don't have to do it myself, Furcolow contradicts himself CONSTANTLY and makes tons of anti-town plays. He's either scum or just a bad player... but at this precise moment I'm leaning towards bad player. This may be swayed by future Furc actions.

I also have a null on gonnano. Some of his posts seem a bit scummy (not trusting his own reads seems to me to be giving himself an excuse for a mislynch), but some of his posts do not. In particular, early on, a lot of people were pointing to his interaction with PI being scummy, and while I agree that gonanno looks scummy if PI were scum, I know PI is NOT scum. So, I'm on the fence about gonnano but leaning town since I have the advantage of knowing that I am not, in fact, scum. Also I think he makes a good point about Lowell, but not strong enough. I'd like to see Lowell defend himself, though.



VOTE: Fuzzman

I'd like to see some pressure on him to prompt him into posting so we can get a more solid read on him.


However, I'm interested in seeing ThAd flip the most, since it could give some scum leads. jmj flip would also be informative, but I'd like to give him a chance to redeem himself. GW flip I would also like to see, but he's been so obtuse I think we'd gain the least amount of information from his flip thus far.

[smargaret]

ThAd - your reaction has been very "Why me? Lol, someone thinks I'm scum. Why am I scum? Look at this shiny VI we can lynch instead." This quote in particular:

Secondly I believe, in general, that I am not all that much of a scumhunter. I certainly do it, but I am pretty sure if you looked over my history I have more often been inclined to pick and choose from what I believe are the best cases rather than submit ones of my own.

sounds off, almost like you're trying to play an equivalent of the newbie card - "Oh, don't mind me, I can't scumhunt, that's why I was pushing the townie mislynch."

Also, you seem to have inside alignment information and a lot of your reads on people change suddenly and for no apparent reason - you spend one whole post early in the game agreeing with me and saying I make good points, yet the next post in your iso has you getting scum tingles from me. You do the same thing to Furc - he's obvtown and then in the next post in your iso, he's clearly scum. That looks like you're feeling out where people are willing to wagon.