Mafia 1114: Jim's Mafia - Game OVER!!!!

[RobCapone]

Besides it's the weekend, I doubt we get the 6 required votes before a couple of RL days

[ConSpiracy]

VOTE: Edge
Well, this gets easier and easier.

I think we

can

get information today. I am currently in the middle of questioning Mute. I expect I will soon shift to questioning ConSpiracy. [At the very least, I am wondering why ConSpiracy laughs off the possibility that anything other than Oso can explain the lack of nightkills last night.] And Prox and Edgerobin have not even posted today.

Nuhuh, I didn't. There was another reason, too, you know and it was similar to the Edge case.
How ironically, the main point of the edge case before the cop outed was him being roleblocked remember? Weren't you the one laying out that case?

I had some other things to ask, but this:

Im afraid of the other(s) PRs releasing information so let's end this day and not give mafia anymore info to work with

Will ask/point out those things the next day.

[Oso]

Damn is that a lynch?

I have Rob, Amrun, Oso, Mute, Javert and ConSpiracy?

I didn't expect this to go so quickly.

@Javert, I'm not being deliberately difficult on this but I have no friggin clue who I'ma block tonight. Edger's out, he's lynched. You are out as I can't block you two nights in a row and I'm not going to block Rob at this point unless Edger flips town. If that happens then Rob is my block target.

My current thinking is one of the two people who I would consider the "lurkers" in this game. Prox or Jerbs. I am also seriously considering not blocking at all esp. if Edger flips scum (and I'm certain he will) so as not to inadvertently block any other town role (and I'm thinking protective type role) who might target Rob tonight. He(Rob) is the more important role of the two of us and if there is a Doc, I'd like them to be protecting Rob and not myself. By that same thinking, I really don't want to do anything that might interfere with that.

As as suggestion to Rob, either of them (Prox, Jerbs) would make good candidates in addition to whoever you might be thinking of currently because 1)Scum can and do hide in the lurker pool and (more importantly in my opinion) there is going to be a point where a lurker hunt is going to take place. If somehow any lurkers can be cleared as town by that point, that forces scum to NK them rather than using one of the easier ways to get a mis-lynch.

It's up to you though. At the risk of being accused myself of trying to direct a PR, those are my thoughts if you think them useful.

[Javert]

Actually, ConSpiracy,the reasons

you

suspected Edgerobin may have only consisted of the fact that he was role-blocked, but as I pointed out just earlier:

I agree that Edgerobin is probably scum. This is based on three things: first, Oso's claim; second, the fact that Edgerobin seemed to change course after Oso claimed to have role-blocked him. (Notice how he suddenly got suspicious of myself, DavidParker, etc.); and third, the fact that I have seen Edgerobin on-line and I believe he has purposefully avoided posting.

The role-blocking was not enough for me to think Edgerobin was scum; but it was enough to get me to look at him. Since that time, he seems to be avoiding the thread, and his posting seemed to alter after the result was claimed on him.

Furthermore, you actually did laugh off the possibility that something besides Oso might cause a lack of kills:

In addition, you will notice that he seems to be unable to not give each of his Mafia groups additional roles (such as Cop, Role-Blocker, Godfather). I usually dismiss the possibility of two role-blockers being in the same game as being absurd (because it draws the classic "which role-blocker has priority?" problem), but apparently I have to consider it to be a salient possibility in this game.

Lol, a subtle "maybe another roleblock hindered town, so I might not be mafia with a blocked kill"

In any case, there is nothing subtle about my posting. I

know

that the lack of nightkills last night cannot be explained by me being role-blocked by Oso. And as I have pointed out, jimfinn's prior suggestions for "normal" set-ups support that.

~

I see has Oso has posted. I indeed think you are better off blocking somebody over nobody, and I still think you should claim who are you are blocking.

Even if there is a Doctor (or other protective role) in this set-up, then your chances of blocking scum is still higher than blocking that particular role. All a protective role does, in the end, is stop a kill -- and that's the exact same thing we are trying to use

your

role to do, too. Except your claimed role is even better at blocking kills than most other roles, because you affect entire scum-teams.

You can block who you like; but I think we, as a Town, are far better off knowing

who

you block before going into night, because -- as I have pointed out before -- if you die, we cannot learn anything more from your role.

Obviously my words are going to be taken with more than a few grains of salt by most players in this game (precisely because you claimed to role-block me on a night with no kills), but as should be clear, I made this exact same suggestion on Day Two,

before

I was put into this situation. That's because it is honestly what I think is the correct strategic play. If this were a Themed game then I would be might have held off on that suggestion (because, for example, Themed games can have "redirecting" roles, where as Normal games cannot), but almost all of those concerns simply are not present in this game.

[ConSpiracy]

Oso, just target somebody you think is most scummy. Don´t tell us who! We don´t want to give scum that advantage.

[jimfinn]

Votecount #1 of Day 3. A lynch has been reached! With 10 alive, 6 to lynch

ConSpiracy (0):
Edgerobin (6) (lynch!): RobCapone, Amrun, Oso, Mute, Javert, ConSpiracy
Javert (0):

The town gathered around Edgerobin, and strung him up rather quickly. After his death, they searched his home and found a gun, the same gun used in the killings that started this unfortunate business.

Edgerobin, Gun mafia goon, Lynched D3.

Night 3 begins now, deadline is February 8 at Noon. Countdown is available here

[jimfinn]

The third night was broken by gunshots. After a few shots rang out, one loud scream was heard. Amrun, the new guy in town, turned up dead. The town searched his house, and found a loaf of bread, nothing more, nothing less.

Amrun, vanilla townie, Shot N3.

The town gathered in the center of town to decide who might be responsible.
Day 4 Begins Now. You have until 9PM my time February 18th to arrive at your next suspect. Countdown here

With 8 alive, 5 to lynch.

[Amrun]

Oh, boo. I wish I knew why scum targeted me.

Thanks for the game, jim.

Good luck, town.

[ConSpiracy]

We are doing great.
Oso, please tell me you roleblocked magnus orion?

[RobCapone]

we are doing great but I suck at choosing investigations.

I didn't want to choose Javert because I felt he was obviously scum based on him being blocked and both kills failed. My inno last night was amrun, I can't tell you why chose him but just something about his post yesterday bugged me it felt like he was bussing Edge since I got a guilty.

Anyway I want everyone to post their thoughts but I think lynching Javert is the best way to go or am I wrong?

[Mute]

Welp, we've gotten one, and (ironically fitting) I feel the next one's obvious.

Vote: Javert

[magnus_orion]

Javert's not scum. Please don't vote him.
oso, who did you block?

[Javert]

Unvote me

immediately

. I am

not

about to get lynched.

For starters, I think we need to question our claimed Cop today. For

several

reasons.

1.)

First, the one player who died Night One -- HumblePoirot -- is the player RobCapone claims to have investigated on Night One.

2.)

Despite apparently having zero information on Day Two, RobCapone was 100% gung-ho against DavidParker for the

entirety

of Day Two. He voted DavidParker out of the gate, and never changed his vote to another player. A

real

Cop would probably not exhibit "100% certainty" on a player they did not actually investigate, because if DavidParker was not lynched but RobCapone later died and showed as Cop, the natural conclusion we would be led to is that RobCapone had had a guilty result on DavidParker on Day Two. In other words, RobCapone's play does not match how a Cop would play.

3.)

Then, on Night Two,

he investigates the player everybody was probably already thinking about lynching on Day Three

. On Day Three, after knowing he was going to catch flak after mislynching DavidParker, he immediately calls out a guilty on Edgerobin. As if that were even really necessary. Why claim a guilty result on a player who is, in all probability, already going to get lynched? Once again, this is

not

how a Cop would play.

4.)

Then on Night Three, instead of investigating me -- which would make sense given his investigation target for Night Two -- he conveniently claims to have investigated the

one

player who died overnight. (Just like Night One.) It makes no sense that he would, for some reason,

avoid

investigating me

but also

investigate Edgerobin.

5.)

RobCapone just claimed he investigated Amrun because he felt Amrun was "

bussing Edgerobin

". But if

I

am "obviously scum," it would seriously only make the slightest

ounce

of sense if I were scum with Edgerobin. Anybody who thinks I could have even possibly

bussed

ICEninja, in a game where each scum group apparently only has two members, is being absolutely ridiculous. So his alleged reasons for investigating Amrun do not even make sense.

6.)

I think the

reason

RobCapone did not "investigate" me is because I am Town, and he therefore

cannot

claim a guilty on me. But he also cannot afford to call me Town, because that takes a player out of the pool of possible mislynches. Therefore, he goes with the "safest" route -- by giving us no information whatsoever.

~

TL;DR: RobCapone has claimed to investigate exactly three players. He claims he investigated the

only two players who have been night-killed

,

and

not only that, but that he investigated them

on the same night they died

. He also claims he investigated the "obvious" scum on Night Two, but chose not to investigate the "obvious" scum on Night Three. And if you lynch me, you will see that the "obvious" scum he actually claimed a guilty on was scum, but that the "obvious" scum he did not investigate is Town.

If I am lynched today, lynch RobCapone's ass tomorrow. No questions, no qualms, no second chances. I called him out as ICEninja's partner on Day One, and given the way he has played, I

still

think he is ICEninja's partner.

For the record, I think Mute and ConSpiracy are the most likely candidates for Edgerobin's partner.

~

In any case, we need to hear who Oso claims to have role-blocked. Seeing as it is Day Four, I also would not be averse to a mass-claim. We are in a good position, and I do not want to see it go to waste.

[magnus_orion]

...
what javert said.
also, Conspiracy, why me?

[Oso]

I blocked Prox last night. Out of the coin flip between him and Jerbs, he won.

[snip]
..
Anyway I want everyone to post their thoughts but I think lynching Javert is the best way to go or am I wrong?

If any group was going to set-up the target of my block by no-killing, Night 2 would have been the best time to do it. I can't explain really why there was no kills on N2 except as the above. With everyone hot to go after my N1 Target(Edger) regardless of what DavidParker flipped (and yes, I was in that group) No-Killing on Night 2 makes a lot sense when you consider the point of view of both groups. Knife Mafia lost one and stayed hidden D2, we lynched David instead. Gun Mafia

WAS

going to lose Edger on Day 3 pretty much as a given, so

BOTH

groups had a motive to not NK N2 and hope that I didn't by chance pick one of the (non Edger)/(non ICENinja) members of the respective groups so that they could line up my target for a lynch today.

Obviously, if both did no-kill for that reason, they arrived at it independent of one another so it is possible (barely in my opinion) that I prevented a kill N2. I think it much more likely, based on the way I would have played in their position, that I did nothing of any note N2. I blocked Javert but I think there is a high possibility that both groups chose to not kill that night.

Which brings me to my vote today:

VOTE: RobCapone

[Note:Bold in the quotes put in by me]

HumblePoirot, vanilla townie, Stabbed N1

DavidParker, vanilla townie, Lynched D2.

Edgerobin, Gun mafia goon, lynched D3

{manutdforev10} replaced by

Amrun, vanilla townie, Shot N3

I am cop

If town I get innocent
If not I get guilty
He did throw in a comment that I'm not guaranteed to be sane but n1

I got innocent on Humble

which confirmed I'm not insane or paranoid leaving normal or naive

I got guilty on edge

so that eliminated naive.

we are doing great but I suck at choosing investigations.

I didn't want to choose Javert because I felt he was obviously scum based on him being blocked and both kills failed.

My inno last night was amrun

, I can't tell you why chose him but just something about his post yesterday bugged me it felt like he was bussing Edge since I got a guilty.
..
[snip]

Three dead players that coincide with Rob's investigations. The two innocents show up on the dead list before we get his results, the scum shows up there as a direct result of two night actions. Mine, which incriminates him, and Rob's which leaves little room for doubt.

N1 with only a single kill and my ability to block shared group powers, along with the individual targeted, pretty much guaranteed that Edger was swinging closer to the beginning of the game than the end of it. Rob fake claimed cop to get some humongous town cred by bussing Edger and added validity by claiming HumblePoirot as his Night 1 investigation. I bought it. Humble is a good player to confirm as town or scum early in the game if you can so his(Rob's) choice of Humble didn't register as even slightly off.

What is off is his choice of investigation for last night. Not that he chose Amrun specifically but rather I thought he chose Edger as a target because of my block. He never did actually say though (or if he did, I couldn't find it) so it follows that since Javert was blocked on a No-Kill night, he'd target him. I know I suggested Prox or Jerbs as alternatives to whoever he(Rob) might be thinking of targeting but I wasn't surprised that he didn't pick either of them. With so much going on right at the moment, I would probably put the two "lurkers" low on the priority list if I were a cop instead of an RB.

Point being, there are two things has to do. 1)Avoid a counter claim and 2)Make sure no "innocent" he gets shows up as "mafia" in the dead list.

He can't do much about #1 except take a deep breath, cross his fingers and hope for the best. #2 is best done by selling the town the only result he knows is true (Edgerobin), referencing the dead guy (Humble) and then killing his investigation. If he happens to kill Member #2 of the opposite scum team, so much the better. He can sell a ture innocent to the town and have at least that person on his side for the rest of the game.

[magnus_orion]

Then Prox is probably scum.
Willing to bet Rob is the last one we're looking for.

[Oso]

..
Seeing as it is Day Four, I also would not be averse to a mass-claim. We are in a good position, and I do not want to see it go to waste.

I vote YES on that. But since I am already claimed, I may not count

[Javert]

I think a mass-claim is a no-brainer here. If we lynch scum today, there should only be one left. And if we have several roles that pin down scum through going into night, they can hopefully better coordinate. I will just get the ball rolling.

I'm a Townie.

~

By the way -- and this is totally out of character for me to post as Javert -- but I am absolutely

elated

right now that it looks like I might not be lynched. I've spent the last few real-life days brooding over how this

really might

be the first game where I'm lynched as Town and being rather depressed about it.

YAUS

. Feel like doing a jig, or something.

[Oso]

..
By the way -- and this is totally out of character for me to post as Javert -- but I am absolutely

elated

right now that it looks like I might not be lynched. I've spent the last few real-life days brooding over how this

really might

be the first game where I'm lynched as Town and being rather depressed about it.

YAUS

. Feel like doing a jig, or something.

I know how you feel. I'll have to look to get the exact number (I think it was 40-something and yes, I do keep a notes on win/losses/roles ect. They just go missing in my desk quite often) of games played before I was lynched as town. I had been vigged (both day and night) as town, recruited by cult then subsequently lynched, NKed and endgamed as town, but never lynched until recently. I owe both Nikanor and Hoopla for that one but InflateablePie was scum so I guess I can't hold anything against him.

Back to the game. With the mass-claim (for anyone who may be opposed to it based on role) it does do one thing really well. It could help explain some of the missing kills. I'd like to think I've been playing brilliantly but please, if you have a role that invalidates any part of the "...blocked player on a 1 kill or no-kill night

MUST BE SCUM

..." equation, then please speak out. I know I'd be grateful.

[magnus_orion]

You make it so very tempting to lynch you regardless when you say things like that Javert :p
But seriously, I don't think you're scum.

@ oso: YO!

I'm the doc. Well, sort of. The role's name is given as "Med Student" I can protect someone each night. I'm not told whether or not the protection was successful... If it is successful, however, then my protections no longer work after that point. I basically become a vanilla.
I think I was probably successful Night 2 when I protected oso.
I protected Javert N1, and Rob N3 (cause Oso said to, and I didn't really think it mattered cause I thought I was successful N2)

Besides his overt pro-townness, it should be obvious then, why I don't think Javert's scum just on account that Oso blocked him.

[RobCapone]

yeah lynch me what a great idea

1. Humble was stabbed and Amrun was shot so clearly I could not be part of Both mafia groups if that is what oso is trying to imply
2. I felt no need to investigate Javert because of Oso's block pretty much confirms Javert is scum, I went with somebody that I thought was suspicious
3. I am what I said I am, I am the cop

with that said

vote Javert

magnus, just because Javert seems "pro-town" doesn't make him clear, especially with 2 mafia groups. I can point to a game where chesskid had the biggest pro-town vibe in the game and he was scum and single handily won the game because nobody thought he was scum AND that game was also a 2 mafia group game. Javert was blocked and both groups kills failed

I apologize for investigating the wrong people, but I am not the lynch for today.

Also we still have the edge and Javet is claiming just a VT, so he definitely is the lynch for today and anyone else at this point is just FAIL

[RobCapone]

*ebwop

this comment should actually say

Javert was blocked and both groups kills failed so it makes more sense that he is scum.


Also remember Javert had to have his arm twisted to vote yesteday and last night there was a gun kill

Gun mafia = Javert and Edgerobin
Knifemafia = IceNinja and I guess Prox since he was blocked last night.

[RobCapone]

Oh snap. Well that is obviously something to go on.

VOTE: edgerobin

I don't see what reason you would have to lie. If edge flips town, obviously, you're next. I had a town read on you previously, though.

This basically confirms two mafia groups as well.

FoS Javert after edge.

Fwiw this was the post that just had me feeling amrun was going to get on the wagon early, i have seen scum do this kind if thing before, I even used this tactic in a game so if anyone did VCA I'd look pro town.
Clearly I was wrong.

[Javert]

RobCapone:

1.)

Can you point to any of your posts on D2 that suggest you investigated HumblePoirot on N1?

2.)

Why did you claim to stand by the DavidParker case "100%" on D2 as a Cop role with apparently no information? (For the record, I think that had DavidParker flipped scum, you would have later claimed to have had investigated him on N1 and gotten a guilty result, given your behavior on D2.)

3.)

Why did you claim a guilty result on D3 on Edgerobin when you could have instead gotten Edgerobin lynched without claiming?

4.)

Why did you investigate Edgerobin N2, but not investigate me N3?

5.)

Why should it matter that I'm a Townie when deciding whether to lynch me? And most importantly:

6.)

If I am lynched today, when I flip Town will you agree to be lynched tomorrow? Because my final will and testament at this point has exactly two words: Lynch RobCapone. If you are so

confident

that I am "

obviously

" scum, then you should have no qualms agreeing with this.

~

Still in favor of a mass-claim.

[RobCapone]

1. I don't beleive I hinted at all about humble cause I had no need to since he was dead and didn't want to tip my hand
2. Because I stood by my case on DP and was sure he was scum
3. Nobody was going to listen to me after I messed up with DP lynch
4. Wanted to confirm that a block resulted in scum, no need to investigate you since edge flipped scum, that confirmed you were most likely scum so I wanted to find the 4th scum. I thought about investigating u but thought you would be lynched regardless
5. It matters cause when you have 9 people and your choices are a VT or a claimed cop you lynch the VT, especially when he was blocked the night there were no kills
6. If you flip town, I'd be fucking amazed but sure I'll play your game, if you flip town and I don't get a guilty tonight, feel free to lynch me but tonight I'll be sure to investigate prox to confirm without a doubt if he is scum or not