A Storm of Swords - Lay your swords down!

[Shadow1psc]

viewtopic.php?f=11&t=16004

FWIW I've never been scum here (I was hoping to get it this game and was excited when my role came up Lannister... then went 'awwww').

Quick skim confirms my read on Grey.

I just had an idea?

Why don't we raise Sir Payne to governor...?

I've seen difficult post restrictions like that be both town and scum.

My point is that he couldn't use it, or would be shoe-horned into not using it, else we'd lynch him.

[Benmage]

My point is that he couldn't use it, or would be shoe-horned into not using it, else we'd lynch him.

Too risky if hes scum gambling and used it hypothetically endgame. It would still be best if we wanted it gone to raise someone, anyone, and have them randomly use it on someone today(tomorrow?) whose obviously not being lynched.


Aiiiiiiight cow, ....Well Seacore is too kind of a mod. I'm going to accept that Cow is town....for now.

[hasdgfas]

My point is that he couldn't use it

[MagnaofIllusion]

What this thread needs is appearances by xvart and Percy. And soon.

--

Don't really like this either. It just looks like you want to lynch him for his bad play and don't even think he'll flip scum.

Why exactly is Chesskid worthy of specific scorn for this stance when Benmage is not?

--

The only other thing I'd like to know from Hasg is if he can vote/raise or not. Also I have to wonder (and if I'm over-stepping my bounds or this is something we don't want scum to know, ignore it), does breach of your restriction result in a) modkill, or b) tree-stumping? If I'm going too far into modkill territory myself by asking, just ignore this >_>

Why do you keep asking if Cow can vote when he already has and it was reflected in the prior vote-count made by the Mods?

Furthermore this is the second time you’ve specifically mentioned Treestump / Treestumping in relation to Cow. Why?

Also, serious amounts of fence-sitting detected in Shadow’s 161. It can be summed up nicely with “Grey might be scum but might not be scum”.

--

We can just waste the ability early on if we fear it….its really not very powerful.

I think this is a very viable solution if we can’t form a solid concensus as to whether the Governor 1shot should be held for later down the line.

LOOK. Town can win this probably lynching 1 scum the whole game. Odds are there’s a scum Team of the North Robb Stark etc etc, and Odds are there’s a Stannis scum team. That alone means there will likely be crosskilled.

YOU KNOW WHO WONT BE NIGHTKILLED The aforementioned idiots. It is our job as the town to kill em all. We don’t need to kill scum today tomorrow or the next day to win this. We need to kill off the unreadable. The ones who even if town will lose us the game.

Really? You somehow assume that you are the only one who knows this?

On a flavor note what happened to the Greyjoys? Are they all dead by this book. I haven’t read the series but really liked them last time around

--

Yeah, Benmage is scum.

Blatant rolefishing.

Um what? Please stop using the Wiki as your Bible. It just makes you look foolish.

Furthermore … why is Benmage’s ‘fishing’ scummy but Shadow’s repeated fishing of Cow not even worth a peep from you. Is it because you are inflicted with UK syndrome and assume everyone who questions you is scum?

Asking people not to selfvote is not scummy. Attempting to threaten people into not self voting is scummy, because it shuts off discussion. DGB has done nothing to foster discussion, and attempted to call it off.

You need to think things through before you post them. Because DGB’s statement didn’t stifle discussion. In fact it launched it.

--

@Raivann

– Thanks for showing up in the thread. Is this minimalist posting style the result of your outing yourself as scum last time?

--

Enough mislynches will lose us the game.

Of course it will. The question is, in a 26 player game, how many will be two many. I doubt you seriously think we are immediate danger if our first lynch doesn’t hit scum. And it is entirely possible for VI to actually be scum, correct?

[Raivann]

I will vig anyone that raises themselves beyond this post.

Explain why. Because you played Clash of Kings. So yeah, explain.

--

I want the governor powers out of play, and

I'm one of the few I trust

to put them there.

Please explain the bolded. Who are the other few you would trust and why do you trust them Page 1?

--

I'd join the wagon on my bro Percy.....but we should already get down to business. Which VI goes first?

vote chesskid

Benmage makes a solid point here. I want to expand upon it.

To those who did not play in Clash of Kings please review it. A VI (CSL) killed the Town. He had been under pressure early on (Day 2) and was let of the hook for being a VI. Later he quickhammered the Town Doctor before a claim could be made and was still not held accountable. Obviously scum left him for the end-game scenario where he self-hammered as Town and facilitated the scum joint win.

The moral of the story – if a VI player is playing scummy you lynch / vig them. Giving a VI a pass based on being a VI assures they get deeper in the game where their poor decisions and actions have a greater negative impact be they Town or Scum.

/off Soapbox.

This whole post by MoI feels forced to me. He asks some questions that he really doesn't want to know the answer to.
Granted they may just be questions to get the game or dialouge going, but more likely is that MoI is scum. Oh, and he budded up to Benmage, so Benmage is prob town if MoI is scum.

[Kast]

@Benmage-
The options directly follow from your objection.
-I proposed we try to lynch scum now. You objected that lynching scum now (or trying to) means we cannot lynch VI's later.
-Your proposal is we lynch VIs now INSTEAD OF trying to lynch scum. If we accept your BS, that waiting until VI's act scummy to lynch them means we will be unable to lynch the scummy VI's then that equally applies to scummy non-VIs who are left to be lynched later.

You presented retarded options, and then went ahead and picked the more retarded and anti-town of the two. I'm trying to find out if you're putting on an act or if you just can't help it.

@Grey-

Yeaaaahhhh. So lets see, I need a majority to agree to give me the power to keep it out of the hands of anyone who will misuse it, but any single townie could put it into someone's hands with one vote/unvote at the end of the day?

Yeah, fuck that noise. We wouldn't need a majority, we'd need a total consensus.

If you want the ability gone and you honestly believe there's a chance it triggers scum powerups, then no governor is clearly better than governor.

Creating a tie is just as easy if not easier than reaching consensus on a governor; it is almost certainly doable with less than a majority and the number of players required scales directly with the size of any counter consensus candidate. Your objection makes your prior complaints sound insincere.

[Eddard Stark]

Vote count 1.3

Twilight Sparkle (1) Zdenek
Percy (1) Magua
Zdenek (1) MagnaofIllusion

Shadow1psc (4) Hasdgfas, zoraster, Twilight Sparkle, Mikujin

DrippingGoofball (3) GreyICE, Bunnylover, Locke Lamora
chesskid3 (1) Benmage
xvart (1) Song of Ice and Fire
Mikujin (1) Danakillsu
LynchMePls (1) DrippingGoofball
Bunnylover (1) chesskid3
GreyICE (3) diddin, Raivann, LynchMePls

Not voting (8) Nexus, Percy, xvart, Xtoxm, Shadow1psc, Feysal, Kast

With 25 alive it takes 13 to lynch.

Raise Count 1.3

Locke Lamora (1) Locke Lamora
LynchMePls (1) LynchMePls
MagnaOfIllusion (1) MagnaofIllusion
Hasdgfas (1) Hasdgfas
GreyICE (1) - GreyICE
Twilight Sparkle (1) Magua
Mikujin (1) Mikujin
DrippingGoofball (2) Danakillsu, diddin
Bunnylover (1) Bunnylover
Danakillsu (1) chesskid3

Not raising (14)Nexus , Benmage, Percy, xvart, Xtoxm, Raivann, Zdenek, Zoraster, Twilight Sparkle, Song of ice and fire, DrippingGoofball, Feysal, Kast, Shadow1psc

With 25 alive it takes 13 to raise someone

*Any mistakes in the votecount PLEASE point them out. God knows it'd not be the first time I made a mistake.
* No one is currently due a prod
* xvart and Zdenek are currently on v/la

[diddin]

@Magna: Because it's hypocritical from chesskid. Benmage, IIRC, is a known idiot hater/policy lyncher, while it is hypocritical to hear someone like chess expressing desire to lynch someone for poor play.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Hey DGB - if Locke is certified scum why is your vote still on LynchMePls? Just curious.

[Shadow1psc]

I'm pretty blind. I didn't even catch that Hasgd was the first on my wagon even. Terrible. As far as fencing on GreyIce, I got him lynched as town before, and the game wasn't long enough for me to determine then, nor is it now if his playstyle is currently contradictory to former. I'm leaning more towards yes, but *shrug*. We've got a deadline a mile away.

[Benmage]

@Benmage-
The options directly follow from your objection.
-I proposed we try to lynch scum now. You objected that lynching scum now (or trying to) means we cannot lynch VI's later.

I'm saying, we probably wont, based on scum hunting skills...sure we can get lucky. But lynching an idiot, also has the chance of being scum. SO its win win.

-Your proposal is we lynch VIs now INSTEAD OF trying to lynch scum. If we accept your BS, that waiting until VI's act scummy to lynch them means we will be unable to lynch the scummy VI's then that equally applies to scummy non-VIs who are left to be lynched later.

Nonono... we can afford some collateral dmg right now. To make the herd smaller. Later when the games on the line, and we're faced with scummy idiots (who probably are town)...we'll lynch them and lose. Or they'll be the only ones left in the game with scum, and scum will swindle them and we'll lose aswell. It's lose lose leaving idiots alive.

You presented retarded options

Nono no...i'm just putting forth a much more advance interpretation of the game that is clearly above most skill players this game offers.

[Benmage]

Hey DGB - if Locke is certified scum why is your vote still on LynchMePls? Just curious.

Yeah and if I'm town, why haven't you raised me?

MoI your town. Do me a favor and raise me. LETS start this wagn

[MagnaofIllusion]

Yeah and if I'm town, why haven't you raised me?

MoI your town. Do me a favor and raise me. LETS start this wagn

The best question is ... why haven't you raised yourself? It hard to jump on a wagon you aren't even supporting yet.

[Shadow1psc]

Yeah and if I'm town, why haven't you raised me?

MoI your town. Do me a favor and raise me. LETS start this wagn

The best question is ... why haven't you raised yourself? It hard to jump on a wagon you aren't even supporting yet.

Haven't you heard? Raising yourself is a scum te*gets shot*

[Benmage]

Yeah and if I'm town, why haven't you raised me?

MoI your town. Do me a favor and raise me. LETS start this wagn

The best question is ... why haven't you raised yourself? It hard to jump on a wagon you aren't even supporting yet.

Raise Benmage

[hasdgfas]

We've got a deadline a mile away.

[Raivann]

Raise: DrippingGoofball

For multiple townie posts.

Town- DGB,zoraster

Scum- MoI,GreyIce, doombunny

[Shadow1psc]

I don't like the way the cow looks at me ._. 2 weeks isn't enough time?

[GreyICE]

Um what? Please stop using the Wiki as your Bible. It just makes you look foolish.

Furthermore … why is Benmage’s ‘fishing’ scummy but Shadow’s repeated fishing of Cow not even worth a peep from you. Is it because you are inflicted with UK syndrome and assume everyone who questions you is scum?

Nah, I don't give a damn about Shadow, because he was the same sort of naively scummy the last game I was in with him, and he's smarter than he comes off, and he reads town. Benmage read scum, but I am honestly not joking about the meds, I have yet to come up with a sane line of reasoning for his further posts in the thread.

The newbie game we mentioned had a person who 'gave up on finding scum' day 1, and he was the scum who quickhammered me. It's amazing how hard it is to 'find scum' when you have no real motivation, unlimited information, no idea of the personalities involved, and not a lot of time in your quickthread to make plots. Benmage's entire post read fucking scum to me, so w/e, other people have eyes if I call it out they can read the same shit.

P.S. Fine, since it's out there, I totally called the rolename first, and didn't even fish it

P.P.S. With no self governor, I would be behind raising sir cow as the Hand. None of the other games had massive flavor switches (see MoI, I did read them) and if he's faking THIS post restriction, well, we can find out.

Raise: hasdgfas

[danakillsu]

Okay, I played in the last one, and I'm calling you on this. Are you honestly saying that any point during or after the game, you'd thought, "Gee, it's funny that a disproportionate number of scum are raising people others than themselves"? Even though MacavityLock and xvart, two of your three scumbuddies, both self-raised at first?

I like GreyICE's argument that the statistical difference is negligible, but not yours that scum would be aware of the trend. Since the "trend" is only noticeable if you mathematically calculate the percentages, I really don't like you saying, "Oh, sure. Yeah. I totally noticed it was a trend all along."

All I'm saying is, I noticed that some scum other than me didn't self-raise after the game was over, even though there weren't as many non-self-raisers. I may not have known for sure that it was a higher percentage, but I would have guessed it. Why does this matter, anyway? It's obvious that self-raising doesn't prove anything in this game and that, therefore, nobody should be doing it.
@chesskid
<3 you too, but there's no way much of anybody is ever going to raise me. Better to raise DGB, imo.

[DrippingGoofball]

One of these players is scum:
Hasdgfas, zoraster, Twilight Sparkle, Mikujin

Also, I forgot about LMP, it's fixed now.

I may have missed some lurkers.

Town:

DGB
Shadow
GreyICE - reluctantly.
Benmage - no scum in his right mind would come right out and suggest we mow down a dozen VIs to make up for the scum NK'ing our best players.

More data required:

Chesskid3
diddin
Nexus
Benmage
MagnaOfIllusion
Danakillsu
Hasdgfas - could be faking the post restriction. I could see him do that.
Raivann
Zdenek
Magua
Zoraster
Twilight Sparkle
Song of ice and fire
Kast
Bunnylover

Lurkers:

Xtoxm
Feysal
Percy

Scum:

LynchMePls
Locke Lamora
xvart - just to make him nervous

[Raivann]

Town

Raivann
DGB
zoraster
Shadow
Nexus
Zdenek

Scum

MoI
GreyIce
Bunnylover

Their posts aren't like that of a relaxed townie, they've got some scum anxiety in 'em.

[GreyICE]

Holy shit, it posts content! And decent content.

Unvote

One of these players is scum:
Hasdgfas, zoraster, Twilight Sparkle, Mikujin

Spoiler: If you're gonna give me that buffet, it's definitely Zoraster by about a dozen miles.

[Shadow1psc]

Zoraster hasn't posted nearly enough content. And it's not like he was around for the majority of the thread, he was gone after the morning. I disagreed (and provoked) him, and he called Grey scummy, who at the time might as well have been white knighting me possibly from that PoV. I don't get all the suspecting when there's other players doing scummier things with much more content.

[Raivann]

I'll take zoraster off town list. I just iso'd him after that comment from Greyice.I don't like his vote for Shadow much either.

One thing is for sure: the Hand should be picked by at least a large plurality. We can't let it be picked by 2 or 3 people.

That's for sure. Isn't this obv though?