Cyclic Experimentation Set x01 - [Game Over]

[I Am Innocent]

For Pops.

I sincerely apologize for this, but it has been brought to my attention that there was a mod error in DrippingGoofball's final Day / Night Two Ability Message. DrippingGoofball has received a corrected Ability Message for that Night.

Interesting...

I still think Saint/Furc was closest that DGball is an SK/Hero. I am okay leaving him for one day, but would like to suggest the following strategy:

Purge ability (whoever that may be ) is used on q21

q21 probably does not have any abilities based on the fact I gave everyone a heads up I was sending him the treestump N3.

q21, should be roleblocked then.

DGball, should be tracked. If he gets tracked with anyone other than q21, everyone needs to lynch him D5.

With that, I feel comfortable with:

Vote: CuriousKarmaDog

My Top Suspects, pretty much in order:
CKD
q21
Pops/DGBall (tied)
BunnyLover
Saint

Have town reads on everyone else.

Key phrases:

"Purge ability (whoever that may be ) is used on q21"
"DGball, should be tracked. If he gets tracked with anyone other than q21,

everyone needs to lynch him D5

."
"

[StrangerCoug]

my god, just checking in....will try to catch up this weekend, and will give one of those.."here is what I think as I go out the door" posts...most of it will be ignored(now), until you know that I am town (ie dead)...but could be useful none the less.

How many times have you said "I'll catch up later" or its equivalent now? You have been lurking for a lot of the game and I have no clue who your suspects are.

[popsofctown]

q21 needs to claim a target for N2

I targeted TMH himself night 2. I figured the scum might well get their scummiest player to make the kill rather than risk exposing a townier player to something like a tracker. It seems I was wrong.
[/quote]
The scum so totally have a cycling nightkill then.

Well done for arriving at the same conclusion [that dgb is sk] as the rest of us, finally. But be careful, apparently this type point is scummy.

Null, not scummy.

Key phrases:

"Purge ability (whoever that may be ) is used on q21"
"DGball, should be tracked. If he gets tracked with anyone other than q21,

everyone needs to lynch him D5

."
"

You're advocating that we waste the track on a player we already know is not town, in hopes that that player will violate their own wincon and kill q21. I'm not a fan, at all.

How come no one ITT wants to talk about whether DGB could have a scumteam? If some sort of setup design principle renders it unlikely, then I'd want hear about it rather than be ignored. If DGB's team has 4 players we're in mylo. If it has 3 players, it will take very strong consensus to take the team down.
A player who had seen a scum pm rapidly speculated about two scumteams.
The very mechanic of being able to cycle abilities becomes terribly more interesting with two scumteams, as scum players would need to carefully cycle to targets they consider town, and would even possibly cycle investigative roles to townies that they think would use them against the rival mafia faction.
I've brought this up umpteen times now and I don't think anyone has directly addressed the possibility a single time. It's making me think the point is confirmed by the silence on it, much like early game attacks on mafia players often are.

[popsofctown]

my god, just checking in....will try to catch up this weekend, and will give one of those.."here is what I think as I go out the door" posts...most of it will be ignored(now), until you know that I am town (ie dead)...but could be useful none the less.

How many times have you said "I'll catch up later" or its equivalent now?

In question form, to allow the slight possibility that the overall behavior was acceptable so maybe the bus doesn't have to go through.

You have been lurking for a lot of the game

Bizzarely declining the opportunity to use hyperbole and say that ckd has been lurking the entire game, if that's even hyperbole at all.

and I have no clue who your suspects are.

Don't you mean no one has any clue who his suspects are? Or did you phrase it this way since, if you missed a post where he listed them with the scumskim reading style, the original statement is still valid, protecting you from having made a false statement, protecting you from getting lynched, protecting the scum wincon.



Does SC make weird posts like this as town?

[StrangerCoug]

my god, just checking in....will try to catch up this weekend, and will give one of those.."here is what I think as I go out the door" posts...most of it will be ignored(now), until you know that I am town (ie dead)...but could be useful none the less.

How many times have you said "I'll catch up later" or its equivalent now?

In question form, to allow the slight possibility that the overall behavior was acceptable so maybe the bus doesn't have to go through.

Once or twice, I'll be forgiving, but curiouskarmadog has a history of this here.

You have been lurking for a lot of the game

Bizzarely declining the opportunity to use hyperbole and say that ckd has been lurking the entire game, if that's even hyperbole at all.

The failure to use hyperbole where appropriate is not a tell.

and I have no clue who your suspects are.

Don't you mean no one has any clue who his suspects are? Or did you phrase it this way since, if you missed a post where he listed them with the scumskim reading style, the original statement is still valid, protecting you from having made a false statement, protecting you from getting lynched, protecting the scum wincon.

I can only speak for myself, although I don't see how anybody else can have a clue either.

Does SC make weird posts like this as town?

I

DO

think a lot of my posts over as any alignment, but if they come off awkward, that's the StrangerCoug for you. I'll be happy to try to clarify, though.

[I Am Innocent]

You're advocating that we waste the track on a player we already know is not town, in hopes that that player will violate their own wincon and kill q21. I'm not a fan, at all.

How do you know he is not town? What do you think about the 3 players who have been purged? Why would a second scum team choose those targets over obv town?

How come no one ITT wants to talk about whether DGB could have a scumteam? If some sort of setup design principle renders it unlikely, then I'd want hear about it rather than be ignored. If DGB's team has 4 players we're in mylo. If it has 3 players, it will take very strong consensus to take the team down.

Last two sentences are Appeal to Fear.

First two sentences, I'll answer.

We have 2 Daevori.

We have 2 more players tied very closely to these Daevori:

CKD - Did not pass the TreeStump to TMH though we adamantly asked him to D2 (and he agreed to D2). RC asked him if he really had the TreeStump. RC also pushed for TMH to die D2 (which would have removed the obstacle for CKD to send the treestump to a teammate).

q21 - TMH basically told him to lay off Diddin, saying (in sort of these words) "we're going to need the dayvig D2. We can kill diddin D2" q21 then pushed powerox, and proceeded to vote Diddin beginning of D2.

That is 4 likely scum on one team.

To say that there is another team of 3 or 4 that has been shooting at scummy players is ludicrous.

I say there is a 5th member trying to save those two by pushing other wagons like DGB, SG, BL. Hmmmm, who could that be???

Satisfied?

[curiouskarmadog]

my god, just checking in....will try to catch up this weekend, and will give one of those.."here is what I think as I go out the door" posts...most of it will be ignored(now), until you know that I am town (ie dead)...but could be useful none the less.

How many times have you said "I'll catch up later" or its equivalent now? You have been lurking for a lot of the game and I have no clue who your suspects are.

you talking about this game or all my games? what is your point or are you just peddling bullshit?

[StrangerCoug]

you talking about this game or all my games? what is your point or are you just peddling bullshit?

I'm talking about this game. I don't remember the last useful post you made here. (Hell, did you at all?)

To catch scum, people need to contribute. There is a reason a majority is required to get a lynch (and why some mods, me included, will not lower the majority requirement in a deadline scenario). I may not be a fan of Lynch All Lurkers, but a good number of players do, and for what I'm starting to see as a good reason: Lurking serves no pro-town purpose. It is anti-information and a good way to avoid taking any controversial stances. If you avoid controversial stances as scum, then you should be able to get an easy win, right?

That's why town likes active people who make useful, convincing input into the game.

Post your top three scum reads in the next 48 hours or die.

[Saint]

#5 Can we please get take a look at the uber-suspicious Purge ability. Didn't DGB claim it cycled? So... should the person who held it before and after him be safe to come forward?

You're, like, six pages behind the times here. But you pretty much hit on why Goofball IS the best lynch Today.
There's no reason for her to hit q21 when she can hit, say, someone who's suspicious of her and just keep not getting lynched.

But I am suspicious of her and she can get town points for killing me because it seems everyone wants her to.

Didn't you just get done saying Saint and ckd were your preferred targets Today?

If some sort of setup design principle renders it unlikely, then I'd want hear about it rather than be ignored.

I've already said why it's more likely... Plus there's the whole flavor thing at the beginning.
If Goofball flipped second scumgroup (and we would be able to positively identify it as a second scumgroup instead of a weird SK name) then I know exactly who I would go for the next Day, but until then, lol speculation.

ckd has pretty much worn out any sympathy I could want to give him at this point.
Coug's diatribe in 2357 wins at irony, though.

[popsofctown]

I didn't intend to appeal to fear, just explain why putting off the lynch can have negative consequences. There's a difference between emphasizing risks that people are already aware of and identifying ones people might not be aware of, and it's rather easy to forget the treestump's impact on the game.

You're advocating that we waste the track on a player we already know is not town, in hopes that that player will violate their own wincon and kill q21. I'm not a fan, at all.

How do you know he is not town?

She lied. Town doesn't lie. There exists no cohesive explanation whatsoever for DGB being able to purge RC n2, but then the n1 nor n3 controller being able to confirm the role exists. She either didn't perform that kill, or she has the purge power every night. The theory that she is "town hero", a permanent vigilante, is bantha pudu, having a killing power role that doesn't cycle violates all the design principles of this game UNLESS it's a traditional killing faction, like SK, or mafia, or werewolves.

What do you think about the 3 players who have been purged? Why would a second scum team choose those targets over obv town?

You're kidding right? As scum of a dueling faction, townies are the ones who can vote for you, scum are the ones who can vote for you

and

shoot you. Optimal strategy for dueling scum factions is to shoot eachother, then deal with the town after that.

First two sentences, I'll answer.

We have 2 Daevori.

We have 2 more players tied very closely to these Daevori:

CKD - Did not pass the TreeStump to TMH though we adamantly asked him to D2 (and he agreed to D2). RC asked him if he really had the TreeStump. RC also pushed for TMH to die D2 (which would have removed the obstacle for CKD to send the treestump to a teammate).

q21 - TMH basically told him to lay off Diddin, saying (in sort of these words) "we're going to need the dayvig D2. We can kill diddin D2" q21 then pushed powerox, and proceeded to vote Diddin beginning of D2.

That is 4 likely scum on one team.

You just will never stop counting unhatched chickens will you. So many unhatched chickens. These chicken embryos have names, customized rooms, a college fund, and their first few doctor appointments scheduled.

You can't keep basing things off of flips that haven't happened. It's not logically grounded.

To say that there is another team of 3 or 4 that has been shooting at scummy players is ludicrous.

Most everyone else in the thread except you (me, q21, wrathchild, saint for the most part) has accepted that DGB is not town and is the one purging people. The size of the group responsible for the purges doesn't really have any relationship with how logical the chain of nightkills is for a third party (although they are extremely logical, with a N1 attempt to kill the other faction, N2 successful kill of the other faction, and N3 aiming for a scummy player who had been accused of being connected with the shotgun-faction.) So if your position is really that "there is no other scumteam because the one who's purging players is town", you need to be defending DGB rather than putting her lynch off for another day. At least be consistent.

I've already said why it's more likely... Plus there's the whole flavor thing at the beginning.
If Goofball flipped second scumgroup (and we would be able to positively identify it as a second scumgroup instead of a weird SK name) then I know exactly who I would go for the next Day, but until then, lol speculation.

ckd has pretty much worn out any sympathy I could want to give him at this point.
Coug's diatribe in 2357 wins at irony, though.

You mean here?

Does the flavor really rule out two scumteams?

Nothing in the flavor does (although seeing red used for one faction hints at it somewhat.) However, the setup and her actions pretty consistently hint at SK. I would love to be proven wrong on this, specifically by her flip.

The color thing is weak sauce, which you seem to concede.

You didn't explain how the setup hints at SK, you just said it does. You didn't explain how DGB's actions hint at SK, you just said they do.

At best you thought of reasons why it's unlikely, but never got all the way around the bush to telling me why it's unlikely. Digame, por favor. (tell me please)

And for good measure,

Mod: Is the opening post of this thread intended to indicate that there are exactly two teams in this game? (including town)

[LimMePls]

my god, just checking in....will try to catch up this weekend, and will give one of those.."here is what I think as I go out the door" posts...most of it will be ignored(now), until you know that I am town (ie dead)...but could be useful none the less.

ckd is still scum btw. Just saying.

[LimMePls]

Also, fwiw I'm beginning to think what this game needs is less circular arguing. A lynch is probably right at this point.

@IAI: Is there information you think is vital to the town that has not been gathered so far. What are we waiting for?

[Saint]

The theory that she is "town hero", a permanent vigilante, is bantha pudu

I'm not sure which is more troubling, that you made this reference or that I get it.

I actually like your most recent post.

I've already said why it's more likely... Plus there's the whole flavor thing at the beginning.
If Goofball flipped second scumgroup (and we would be able to positively identify it as a second scumgroup instead of a weird SK name) then I know exactly who I would go for the next Day, but until then, lol speculation.

ckd has pretty much worn out any sympathy I could want to give him at this point.
Coug's diatribe in 2357 wins at irony, though.

You mean here?

Does the flavor really rule out two scumteams?

Nothing in the flavor does (although seeing red used for one faction hints at it somewhat.) However, the setup and her actions pretty consistently hint at SK. I would love to be proven wrong on this, specifically by her flip.

The color thing is weak sauce, which you seem to concede.

You didn't explain how the setup hints at SK, you just said it does. You didn't explain how DGB's actions hint at SK, you just said they do.

At best you thought of reasons why it's unlikely, but never got all the way around the bush to telling me why it's unlikely. Digame, por favor. (tell me please)

Color is indeed color. Most of the time multiple scumgroups get their own colors, although red vs. brown is not unheard of.

I'm pretty positive I said this before in a bulleted list that I'm too drugged to dredge up, but the game starting with an odd number of players implies that it's balanced for an odd number of extra killing roles - basically the 1/4 scum:Town ratio plus one extra.

Goofball's actions are pretty much textbook SK play.
*Attempt to look busy (as distinguished from pro-Town)
*Piss off as few people as possible (making accusations is fine but actually getting on someone's case and majorly pushing for someone's lynch is something different altogether)
*Going along with the above, drop hammers whenever it wouldn't make you look horrible. It confirms a lynch as not-you and (if done right) only annoys the lynchee (who happens to be die immediately afterward and can't do anything about it).

I've played with Goofball-SK before. Because of the unusual way we got linked together (we were SK-Neighbors in US Election 08 Mafia), she TAUGHT me how to be an SK (and a fine job she did!); she explicitly taught me those last two points. THIS IS HER SCUM META. I'm even going to post this in large letters so nobody can claim to have missed it, because while I know I'm not exactly ON FIRE ITT I'm going to bank on this.

GOOFBALL IS PLAYING TO HER SCUM META

FFS.

And for good measure,

Mod: Is the opening post of this thread intended to indicate that there are exactly two teams in this game? (including town)

...I actually have to wonder why I didn't ask this. >.<

[implosion]

I don't really have much new to say right now. Regardless of whether or not DGB is SK, we lynch CKDscum.

[DrippingGoofball]

Goofball's actions are pretty much textbook SK play.
*Attempt to look busy (as distinguished from pro-Town)
*Piss off as few people as possible (making accusations is fine but actually getting on someone's case and majorly pushing for someone's lynch is something different altogether)
*Going along with the above, drop hammers whenever it wouldn't make you look horrible. It confirms a lynch as not-you and (if done right) only annoys the lynchee (who happens to be die immediately afterward and can't do anything about it).

I've played with Goofball-SK before. Because of the unusual way we got linked together (we were SK-Neighbors in US Election 08 Mafia), she TAUGHT me how to be an SK (and a fine job she did!);

she explicitly taught me those last two points.

THIS IS HER SCUM META. I'm even going to post this in large letters so nobody can claim to have missed it, because while I know I'm not exactly ON FIRE ITT I'm going to bank on this.

The large font indicates an out and out LIE. I could see the first two points - they are clichés and generalities. But the last one is a BOLD-FACED LIE.

You are lying. I don't hold this opinion this now, and I never did, so I didn't say that. EVER. You are lying.

Could you be scum??? Why else would you lie?

If you expect me to be a SK, you'd expect me to be un-nightkillable, right? So you have to put double time to have me lynched.

[popsofctown]

Has that neighbor QT become public?

I would certainly agree that DGBtown is more aggressive than DGBscum. I've played with both DGB alignments.

[The Eruci]

:: VoteCount 4x2 ::

LynchMePls (0) -

DrippingGoofball (0) -

WrathChild (0) -

curiouskarmadog (4) -

implosion, WrathChild, I Am Innocent, StrangerCoug

q21 (0) -

popsofctown (0) -

Bunnylover (0) -

I Am Innocent (0) -

StrangerCoug (0) -

Implosion (0) -

nhammen (0) -

Saint (0) -

Not Voting (8) -

nhammen, curiouskarmadog, Bunnylover, q21, LynchMePls, DrippingGoofball, popsofctown, Saint

With 12 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.

Deadline for Day Four is Saturday February 19th, 2011, at 7:00pm EST.

Any flavor given throughout this game is not indicative of the game state, amount of factions, the alignment of any player*, or any piece of the game setup. This includes, but is not limited to:
- The Opening Post Flavor Scene
- Identification Numbers associated with each player
- Death or Other Game State Change Scene

*Players with Publicly Announced Alignment (such as Dead Players) may be included in Game Scenes. This is the only exception to the above assertion.

[popsofctown]

This mod is

perfect

really good

[Saint]

apologies for that
it felt like that was a tool that we could use
(in case the last mod post is refererring to me)

I also am more tentative to lynch DGB. CKD wagon lacks momentum. Why is that?

[Saint]

you talking about this game or all my games? what is your point or are you just peddling bullshit?

I'm talking about this game. I don't remember the last useful post you made here. (Hell, did you at all?)

To catch scum, people need to contribute. There is a reason a majority is required to get a lynch (and why some mods, me included, will not lower the majority requirement in a deadline scenario). I may not be a fan of Lynch All Lurkers, but a good number of players do, and for what I'm starting to see as a good reason: Lurking serves no pro-town purpose. It is anti-information and a good way to avoid taking any controversial stances. If you avoid controversial stances as scum, then you should be able to get an easy win, right?

That's why town likes active people who make useful, convincing input into the game.

Post your top three scum reads in the next 48 hours or die.

This, to me, reads as coaching
"help me win or I will bus you", if you will.
Does anyone agree?
I'm happier with a CKD flip. If he's scum, I'm going to look at SC for distancing/bussing possibly. I'll have to read them both in ISO if CKD flips scum, but based upon his last post I'm not so sure. I am happy to wagon him, as his failure to pass to TMH is pretty damning, but I'm not 100% on it.

[popsofctown]

Not that SC isn't scum, but I've never seen scum coach teammates during the day, ever.

And Furc, the mod was answering my direct query.

[Saint]

Oh. I had been speculating about shotgunned, purged, and DGB's number
he seemed to directly address a few of the issues I have brought up recently
I guess my setup speculation is so good that the moderator answers me, or players ask about it
I really must have missed your questioning, which is a shame, because I have tried to read this entire game with a fine-toothed comb.

Do you plan on voting CKD, pops?

[popsofctown]

If DGB lynch doesn't materialize or someone convinces me she's working alone, yes, I plan on voting CKD. He's not super scummy based on gameplay, it's in that sort of illegible area where a player is so blatantly antitown and AtE defensemode that accurate reading is difficult, but the missed pass is just something that can't be ignored. He posted six minutes after the thread opened. Even if the chance he actually checked the thread is 50%, or 40%, or 30%, that entire slice of the pie can be shaded "ckd is scum in this case", which is a lot of information. And even if he didn't check the thread, doesn't mean he's town. So it's a really good lynch.

Of course, having 99% information that DGB is not town is powerful information too, which is why I much prefer that lynch.

[Saint]

If you are pushing DGB, and you don't want to push CKD, do you feel there are scum on the CKD wagon? (the 4 voters)
if so, how many? (out of 4)

[I Am Innocent]

Also, fwiw I'm beginning to think what this game needs is less circular arguing. A lynch is probably right at this point.

@IAI: Is there information you think is vital to the town that has not been gathered so far. What are we waiting for?

No I think we should lynch. CKD is stalling with his final analysis hoping his teammate Pops can get a DGB wagon instead. q21, as Saint mentioned, is ready to hop on DBG as well.

*****************

DGB is not the kill today.

Pops, I have been consistent, I think we have a scum team of around 5 players, and an SK/Hero which is DGB. DGB has been told if q21 does not get purged, DGB will be lynched tomorrow.

If CKD and q21 come back scum, Pops is most likely scum.

*****************

@Pops, you ask me if I am kidding. You said anti-scum factions would kill each other first. Well if that is the case, why is the shotgunning team shooting at MOI, Diddin, and me/Implosion? Your theory seems to only work for one team...