Mini 1117 - Manhattan Special - [GAME OVER]

[el simo]

Back, was white water kayacking.

Anyway, so glad cop caught IS scum, I've always been very scared of an IS scum.

CQ, just because IS was scum doesn't mean his reads were false, scummy actions are scummy, all he did as scum was just make us painfully aware of them.

I don't have time for a full reread as I still don't have my student log on and am using a neighbours laptop in her room.

I've never encountered an IS scum so I don't know how to read him now. His tell on Crazy about preventing the lynch was dead on - but he flipped scum, so that casts a hell of a lot of doubt on it, but it still is a bloody solid tell. IS is the bussing type though, he is an arrogant player and I feel that if he thought his partner was going to slow him down than he'd throw him under.

Erratus caught Sapo big time with his contradiction. Wishy washy logic like that is scummy. Huge scum points for Sapo.

CQ agreeing with someones logic isn't parroting, if it were everyone on any bandwagon would all be scummy parroters. Very rarely does a band wagon appear where each voter has his own specific reason why he is voting that player.

Eeh this is just from a scan over the last few pages - hopefully I will get my student log on and can dedicate some more time to this thread. I need to do a good reread of the flips.

vote: CQ

I think you were an obv bus from IS.

[InflatablePie]

D3 Votecount #2

[4] CrazyQuestions - Empking, Substrike, TheLonging, el simo
[1] Erratus Apathos - Fugitive
[1] Fugitive - Erratus Apathos
[0] TheLonging
[0] Empking
[0] Substrike22
[0] Midnight's Sorrow
[0] saporovirus
[0] el simo
[3] Not Voting - CrazyQuestions, Midnight's Sorrow, saporovirus

Please point out any possible mistakes. With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch and 5 to No Lynch. The deadline is on Sunday, February 20th at 5PM EST.

[CrazyQuestions]

Sapor: are you asking why I voted CQ, despite the fact that I voted him yesterday? Or are you asking why I voted CQ at all? I don't get it

You voted me yesterday without reasons too. I guess you had not time to join IS' wagon later, but seeing your vote on me while we lynched IS is your only contribution.

CQ, just because IS was scum doesn't mean his reads were false, scummy actions are scummy, all he did as scum was just make us painfully aware of them.

This is lovely. Are you saying IS' reads were trying to benefit the town?? lovely.

I've never encountered an IS scum so I don't know how to read him now. His tell on Crazy about preventing the lynch was dead on - but he flipped scum, so that casts a hell of a lot of doubt on it, but it still is a bloody solid tell.

1. Quote where and how I prevented the lynch.
2. in that case, How can be a BLOODY SOLID TELL to prevent a lynch of a player that flips townie?? His read on me was that I was trying to PREVEN THE LYNCH OF A SCUM PLAYER. This read is obviously WRONG.

I think you were an obv bus from IS.

This is:

1. Parroting
2. Again attacking me indirectly coz you have no reason against me.

I AM AT L-1. Just in case Elsimo didnt want to make it official. I will continue my cases. I think a couple of the players voting me should take the clear position of attackers and build a solid case against me, given they think I am so obvious scum to put me at L-1. This way I can answer and provide information about the game. I have many many things to say, even if you find me very scummy, I can provide lot of information about connections in this game. I guess you want that, so lets make it official and serious, guys.

[CrazyQuestions]

ELSIMIO-UPDATE

1. He keeps in the same way, avoiding to explore players and without any intention to scumhunt. He did not Meta'd me as he announced, and he has shown no interest in investigating my actions during the game. He just voted for town players all day 1 and defended IS by attacking me.

2. His view on me is totally nonsensical now. His only reason to attack me day 1 was that i mud-accused IS wishing people to follow me and lynch him. Given the flip, that should be read by him as a very townish thing. If he was attacking with a large set of evidence I might think he is tunelled, but since this is his only observation and he is wagonning following others, this is very scummy.

3. His point that IS' read on me is valid is nonsensical too. First, it is the read of scum, and hence, you cannot read it as pro-town. Second, IS' read on me was that I was Shadow scummate by stopping his lynch. Obviously, that read is ridiculous now.

Summary: quite scummy.

Indeed, I think he put nervous when I pointed out to IS and Substrike connection as possible scummates, and he reacted heavily...the two alphas IS and Simio attacked me very seriously...

---

Longing - Update

1. He keeps doing NOTHING. He has voted for me without saying why, both day 2 and day 3, and lives placidly in the wagon.

Weak

Summary: Longing has to participate more or we will find impossible to read this guy later.

[Fugitive]

So I guess I'm the only one that thinks CQ is pretty obvtown?

[saporovirus]

Sapor: are you asking why I voted CQ, despite the fact that I voted him yesterday? Or are you asking why I voted CQ at all? I don't get it

Why did you vote for her in the first place.

[Erratus Apathos]

CQ, just because IS was scum doesn't mean his reads were false, scummy actions are scummy, all he did as scum was just make us painfully aware of them.

This is lovely. Are you saying IS' reads were trying to benefit the town?? lovely.

I've never encountered an IS scum so I don't know how to read him now. His tell on Crazy about preventing the lynch was dead on - but he flipped scum, so that casts a hell of a lot of doubt on it, but it still is a bloody solid tell.

1. Quote where and how I prevented the lynch.
2. in that case, How can be a BLOODY SOLID TELL to prevent a lynch of a player that flips townie?? His read on me was that I was trying to PREVEN THE LYNCH OF A SCUM PLAYER. This read is obviously WRONG.

This is the reaction of a townie.

[Empking]

So I guess I'm the only one that thinks CQ is pretty obvtown?

Are you looking at her posts or her interaction with IS? If I was looking at just the first then I'd put her down as town too.

Actually,

Unvote

I was just going along with a wave of crazy "Empking can't read people this game"itus. No! Crazy is town and I hate the company I had on this wagon.

Vote: TL

[CrazyQuestions]

Are you looking at her posts or her interaction with IS? If I was looking at just the first then I'd put her down as town too.

You have not looked to my interaction with IS. Interaction is a term that includes the two parts (IS and ME). I have not read any single comment in your initial accusation/vote that talks of MY actions. For instance, you did not mention how I pointed out to IS and Strike, or you have not mentioned how I answered back to IS' posts on me, etc etc, describing in which way I seemed scummy or townish. You just observed IS' behavior and read it as some kind of distancing, without reading my reactions at all. Hence, I think INTERACTION is not the good term.

Having said so, in any case, I want you to describe in more detail and with quotes/analysis what you found as a signal to vote for me, since your summary in this post has no previous analysis from you that I can check or understand. In case you were voting for me driven by other motives (as you point out in your post), please also tell me which they are in more detail.

---

@TheLonging: Please answer the following question formulated by Empking.

question 1: What questions have I(empking) asked where the goal was to

look pro-town

?

Please answer too the following question regarding what you said about me day 1 before you started to see me as town with solid points.

question 2: Which "fluff" I was posting, where fluff is understood as in "I'm posting but I'm not really posting to be with town, just so I can

look town

"?

---

List of Longing references to Shadow:

1.

FoS: ShadoWolf
for the record, I'm thinking more along the lines of meta as well, Empking bothers me more.

2.

Did you just ignore everything else that has been said, JUST to address this? Are your partners in the lurkers? Do you even know what is going on Shado? You've done better than this.

...

However, Shado is more scummy than you know, see ^
unvote
vote: ShadoWolf

3.

I analyzed shao.
vote: crazyquestions

Please describe your analysis on shadow. Please describe with quotes where Shadow did the things your analysis "says" he did.

---

I will continue with my summaries on Saporo and Fugitive tonight. Is sorrow playing?

[Empking]

His post straight after voting you:

Everyone is like all schizophrenic and all over the place. I would go with Midnight. I cant tell if GREY or Crazy are actually scum. Just delusional.

Unvote: Crazy
Vote Midnight

Is there a reason why Crazy is deliberately NOT mentioning Shado in any of her posts? That just screams misdirection to me. In fact, Crazy has mentioned just about everyone except Shado. First it was the whole sillyness of some childre'ns book story and now a little staged war with Simo.

Hey Crazy, are you trying to distance yourself from Shado?

My vote on Shadow stands with a big fat:

FOS: Crazy

Oh I see, Crazy wants me to do her homework for her. That sounds more like an Inundation Defense to me. Put the onus on me to conjure up pages after pages of material just so she can sit there and denounce it all. Its like dumping thousands of pages of material on someone in order to drown them in crap.

Lawyers do that crap all the time. Are you Shado's lawyer now? What kind of game are you trying to play with us here.

I already said why Shado is scum. He hasnt even contributed anything. No accusations, no observations, nothing. Even after I called him out. Just snippets and snide remarks. You want a case, thats it. But dont try to get all screwy with me Crazy, I got my eye on you!

IGMEOY: Crazy

His focus on not voting you but still calling you scummy.

[CrazyQuestions]

His focus on not voting you but still calling you scummy.

1. He was basically faking a town-vs-town play when I described the Daddy-Son story between Strike and IS...but I dont think he had any argument to vote for me, since this would have been highly omgusing and would make attention to be on him...
2. He simulated to be active by talking and talking of me, as I pointed out in my summary...
3. He added indirect pressure to me and made the situation to seem like "oh, we all decided to lynch shadow, it is so obvscum, the rest of things is uninteresting", and all attention moved to shadow...

I do not see why this makes me scummy at all...on the contrary, I analyzed it as a townie signal, but obviously, I have extra information on my side...I wonder why people is not reading my early day 1 attack on IS to judge Strike's connections to IS. I will describe again all the episode if people need it...

[el simo]

This is lovely. Are you saying IS' reads were trying to benefit the town?? lovely.

No, I'm saying just because he is scum doesn't make him wrong and you right.

1. Quote where and how I prevented the lynch.
2. in that case, How can be a BLOODY SOLID TELL to prevent a lynch of a player that flips townie?? His read on me was that I was trying to PREVEN THE LYNCH OF A SCUM PLAYER. This read is obviously WRONG.

1) The numerous times you refused to vote even though you claimed your vote was 'practically' on him.
2) This is a good point that I didn't take into account, so

unvote, vote: Sapo.

This is:

1. Parroting
2. Again attacking me indirectly coz you have no reason against me.

I'll say it again, agreeing with someone doesn't mean its a parrot. You have said this about everyone who has agreed with anyone this game.

Not bothering with CQ's case on me, if you think he is right read me in ISO and you will see he isn't.

Also @ your interaction with IS comment to Emp: you both actively pressured each other with out placing a vote. <- distancing at best

Votes on Sapo for his contrary logic. Would like to hear your thoughts on this Sappie.

[el simo]

Btw I have my uni account set up now so I'll be able to check in once about once a day from now on.

[CrazyQuestions]

1) The numerous times you refused to vote even though you claimed your vote was 'practically' on him.

This is not preventing the lynch. This is using the day and sharing as much information as possible. My positions were very clear given my summaries.

I'll say it again, agreeing with someone doesn't mean its a parrot. You have said this about everyone who has agreed with anyone this game.

There is a difference. You can agree and yet provide your view, usually with subtle/minor differences because people see the game in different forms. Parrot implies not providing the own view/perspective and is complemented by following the main wagons easily... When you dont scumhunt and you are forced to give opinions on players, you get into trouble. Parroting is a simple and safe way to post. That you did.

Not bothering with CQ's case on me, if you think he is right read me in ISO and you will see he isn't.

how we will see I am not? Please tell us. If you need more specific quotes/accusations, tell me, Ill be delighted to complement my case on you with detailed questioning if it is easier for you to respond this way.

Votes on Sapo for his contrary logic. Would like to hear your thoughts on this Sappie.

ElSimio run away from the crazy animal when he felt more alone and moved to "Sappie".

vote: ElSimio

Reasons: Summaries. If you want a detailed case, Ill be happy to write it once Simio gets couple of extra votes.

[InflatablePie]

D3 Votecount #3

[3] CrazyQuestions - Substrike, TheLonging, el simo
[1] Erratus Apathos - Fugitive
[1] Fugitive - Erratus Apathos
[1] el simo - CrazyQuestions
[1] TheLonging - Empking
[0] Empking
[0] Substrike22
[0] Midnight's Sorrow
[0] saporovirus
[2] Not Voting - Midnight's Sorrow, saporovirus

Please point out any possible mistakes. With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch and 5 to No Lynch. The deadline is on Sunday, February 20th at 5PM EST.

Prodding Midnight's Sorrow.

[CrazyQuestions]

SAPORO - UPDATE

she is not posting much, but i checked that she is consistently posting in the two games she is playing. Yet her lack of definition day 1 is worrying. However, I disagree with the existence of a SERIOUS incoherence. Notice how she mentioned first the emotional outbursts of IS, and included the word SUPER. That is consistent with her seeing this as a main point. Later added that Erratus had "a point" which sounds something minor after the big message above. I would interpret this as confusing, and Im more interested about her lack of definition day 1. She is THE SAME NOW. So before a more serious Saporo judgment, id ask her to write a SERIOUS DISCUSSION on all players.

Summary: bit scummy

---

FUGITIVE - UPDATE

Started making a partial summary of day 1, but showed no interest in his own observations. I clarified about me, and he didnt even consider my answer. Day 2 and 3, he is changing his own views on players, since I was scummy and now I am obvtown, Empking seemed town and then he voted for him, Erratus was not even analyzed in his first summary. It is possible that his views on empking and Erratus are based on flips, but he is not describing at all such connections. He promised a case on Erratus on monday, but has posted few times since then without such case. On the contrary, he is attacking erratus for the new posts but not for old ones. It might be consistent with a very unhelpful player not reading the game, but it is at least worth checking. As saporo, our judgment would benefit immensely from a very big serious post in which he describes his cases on Empking day 2 and especially Erratus day 3 (obviously, at the moment he voted, not later).

Summary: bit scummy

[Midnight's Sorrow]

Why are people voting CrazyQ? She's Town.

Let's stop ingesting the stupid pills, please.

Vote: Substrike

If I've ever seen a scum bus their buddy in a cop out like yesterday as...

deftly

as this guy, my mind be pulling up the blanks.

[Substrike22]

Midnight what the hell are you talking about, honestly? We had a confirmed guilty. I voted that way. That's really the best you can do? You come out of your active lurking to vote for me, on the grounds that I voted for a cop-confirmed guilty? Please, by all means, try again.

CQ is there anyone other than your bff EmpKing that you don't find scummy, honestly? Or are you just content with lynching everyone but your hard won ally? I'm starting to think this might be a CQ/MS and not a CQ/EMP. I think CQ is all like "oh hey EMP doesn't find me scummy, so I'll just play along and go with the flow, throwing out that he's town so he feels better about his position as well." I've never seen a town player provide lists and lists of players like you do. I've never seen a scum player do it, either, but I've seen scum do similar lists (if not to the groundbreaking extent CQ is approaching.)

[CrazyQuestions]

CQ is there anyone other than your bff EmpKing that you don't find scummy, honestly?

1) As far as I see my summaries, it is ElSimio and You as scummy.
Saporo, Fugitive (and maybe Longing) as somewhat scummy and wishing them to post more in specific directions so I can interpret better their weaknesses.
My bff Emking, My bff Erratus and my bff Sorrow (my update is coming, though not much to say) are not particularly scummy at this point (though the last should participate more, I think).

p.s. If I forgot someone, I will dedicate you some time, promise

2) I think you can read all that from my summaries if you pay a minimum of attention, but if you have extra doubts you can ask.

3) The fact that I analyze all players does not mean all of them are scum. I am not going to say "hey, this guy is town for sure", so do not expect it. My observations are maybe helpful to cross-check with theirs and hopefully converge on scum.

Or are you just content with lynching everyone but your hard won ally?

I am not happy with lynching anybody at this point. We have many days in front. I am happy with wagonning ElSimio and you and making the rest to participate in the things I described in my summaries.

I'm starting to think this might be a CQ/MS and not a CQ/EMP.

Please, make your case on me. Empking and Simio decided to disappear and let you leading the wagon on me. Longing is not participating more, so I think it is your responsibility to write a detailed case on me. Also, I would like you to be specific on the connections between IS and MS, MS and me, and MS with all the rest of dead players, since you consider he is my partner.

I think CQ is all like "oh hey EMP doesn't find me scummy, so I'll just play along and go with the flow, throwing out that he's town so he feels better about his position as well."

Empking voted for me and I only updated my view on him moderately because of some incoherences in this position. I found him mostly fine when he considered me town, when he started a wagon on me without sense, and later. So your observation is quite incorrect.

I've never seen a town player provide lists and lists of players like you do. I've never seen a scum player do it, either, but I've seen scum do similar lists (if not to the groundbreaking extent CQ is approaching.)

Is that a "too pro-town to be town" kind of argument? I am quite interested in your case on me. Please WRITE IT NOW.

[Substrike22]

CQ is there anyone other than your bff EmpKing that you don't find scummy, honestly?

1) As far as I see my summaries, it is ElSimio and You as scummy.
Saporo, Fugitive (and maybe Longing) as somewhat scummy and wishing them to post more in specific directions so I can interpret better their weaknesses.
My bff Emking, My bff Erratus and my bff Sorrow (my update is coming, though not much to say) are not particularly scummy at this point (though the last should participate more, I think).

p.s. If I forgot someone, I will dedicate you some time, promise

2) I think you can read all that from my summaries if you pay a minimum of attention, but if you have extra doubts you can ask.

3) The fact that I analyze all players does not mean all of them are scum. I am not going to say "hey, this guy is town for sure", so do not expect it. My observations are maybe helpful to cross-check with theirs and hopefully converge on scum.

Or are you just content with lynching everyone but your hard won ally?

I am not happy with lynching anybody at this point. We have many days in front. I am happy with wagonning ElSimio and you and making the rest to participate in the things I described in my summaries.

I'm starting to think this might be a CQ/MS and not a CQ/EMP.

Please, make your case on me. Empking and Simio decided to disappear and let you leading the wagon on me. Longing is not participating more, so I think it is your responsibility to write a detailed case on me. Also, I would like you to be specific on the connections between IS and MS, MS and me, and MS with all the rest of dead players, since you consider he is my partner.

I think CQ is all like "oh hey EMP doesn't find me scummy, so I'll just play along and go with the flow, throwing out that he's town so he feels better about his position as well."

Empking voted for me and I only updated my view on him moderately because of some incoherences in this position. I found him mostly fine when he considered me town, when he started a wagon on me without sense, and later. So your observation is quite incorrect.

I've never seen a town player provide lists and lists of players like you do. I've never seen a scum player do it, either, but I've seen scum do similar lists (if not to the groundbreaking extent CQ is approaching.)

Is that a "too pro-town to be town" kind of argument? I am quite interested in your case on me. Please WRITE IT NOW.

Nah, I think I'm good resting on the lists of reads you're providing and circular reasoning you used on me for the last two days. How you don't find MS scummy is fun in and of itself, and really just re-enforces my belief that you're protecting your actively lurking scum buddy.

[Fugitive]

V/LA until Tuesday, Feb 15th

[CrazyQuestions]

Nah, I think I'm good resting on the lists of reads you're providing and circular reasoning you used on me for the last two days.
How you don't find MS scummy is fun in and of itself, and really just re-enforces my belief that you're protecting your actively lurking scum buddy.

Your RESTING is scummy. The reason is that your vote on me had NOTHING TO DO with my lists of reads and the circular reasoning of the LAST TWO DAYS. Also, at the moment of voting for me, you found Empking my mate. Thus, you are re-building your case completely.

Please:

1. Describe your case on me BEFORE the last two days.
2. Describe how my reasoning is circular and how the fact I describe reads on people is scummy. Also, describe why you find me connected to MS and why.

Since you seem to avoid me, and you have mentioned twice that you are not interested in answering me, here you can find an stimulus:

Unvote
vote: Strike

---

ElSimio is yet my top choice I guess. Apart from my summary, please notice all of you the following inconsistency that you can easily check by ISOing him:

Posts 0, 1, 2, 5, 6, 9, 10, 14, 15, 16, 17, 24, 27, 28, 29, 31, 33 and 35 in day one were partially/totally dedicated to discuss one single issue of my play, that is, my attack on IS (and Strike) that ElSimio interpreted as my attempt to MUD FLINGING. In his own words, trying to find people to attack IS with my hook without me showing myself. After a long day thinking like that with 18 posts written about it, am I wrong in thinking that ElSimio was reading that action as evidence of my scumminess AGAINST a townie????
Day 3 starts, IS is known to be scum, and he reads me as his mate and after Empking abandons the wagon he says

"This is a good point that I didn't take into account..."

Really? He didnt take into account that GOOD POINT after 18 posts dedicated to THAT SORT OF POINT AND ONLY TO THAT SORT OF POINT !! (By the way, half of the other 18 posts he wrote were bluff, the other half about Empking/Grey stuff...). His life day 1 consisted in such an observation mostly...

[Empking]

Vote: Sub

[CrazyQuestions]

I think Empking is jealous because you think now MS is my soul-surfer...he was so fond of his Crazy-Syrene in the ocean...

@Strike: Now you have all the attention of our threesome. Please illuminate us. We are all ears.

[saporovirus]

V/LA until tomorrow guys.