A Storm of Swords - Lay your swords down!

[GreyICE]

Oh hey, found the game:

http://www.mafiascum.net/archive/viewto ... start=2175

Found the role:

1 Mafia Mostly Mute Godfather (If he posts using only two words in each post in a day (besides votes), he has investigation immunity the following night. Inspired by a game of Mostly Mute Monk Mafia we played at Thespival, in which the two most innocent-appearing players ended up being scum.)

Once, he faked a crippling restriction where he claimed to gain powers by following it. He was lying scum, if memory serves.

Want another random wiki term, as MoI the wallbanger likes to call it? I'm feeling a strong case of LAL coming on.

Vote:DrippingGoofball

No reason to push this case that hard, and the lie doesn't sit well. Yeah, removing that vote was a mistake. The 'teehee, memory didn't serve correctly' or 'omg it was like three years ago' isn't going to fly when you just tried to get someone lynched by lying. I found the game in like 5 minutes, I can't believe that she didn't even bother to look it up.

[LimMePls]

I am playing the actual game. I am trying to help the town win by keeping the powers out of the hands of players I don't trust. At the moment that's, well... everyone.

This post strikes me as a bit scummy. Particularly the last sentence.

Unvote
Vote: GreyICE

Explain this a little more :<.

I'm not holding your hand all game. This time I'll indulge you, but you need to learn to think for yourself. Lets deconstruct the two sentences I had a problem with:

I am trying to help the town win by keeping the powers out of the hands of players I don't trust.

This is at least the second time that GreyICE has pulled a "LOOK AT ME, LOOK AT HOW TOWN AND AWESOME I AM" move. Why does GreyICE need to make this statement at all? Isn't this what all townies are doing?

I don't trust. At the moment that's, well... everyone.

"Everyone is someone I don't trust" is a scum mindset. Starting with the idea that everyone is scum is a scum mindset because it is optomized to a) find mislynches and b) identify town players for NKs.

[Feysal]

Only one day into the game, and we're on page 10. I don't have the time to read up right now, but I'll tackle this game later tonight. Content of this post is basically limited to "hello, I'm in this game too".

[GreyICE]

"Everyone is someone I don't trust" is a scum mindset. Starting with the idea that everyone is scum is a scum mindset because it is optomized to a) find mislynches and b) identify town players for NKs.

[LimMePls]

^^If the picture weren't fail, that might be funny. Guess we'll never know.

[Magua]

@Mod:

The raise vote totals seem to be incorrect for anyone with more than one vote.

~ Fix'd, thanks.

Magua: do you think Benmage's VI policy/DGB treating it as a towntell is scummy, or do you simply disagree with both of them? Why would hascow fake a post restriction as town?

At this point, I disagree with them both. DGB I find scummy even when she's town (again, Stars Aligned II); BenMage I'm more confident that I can read in the longterm, so I'm more willing to let him slide.

As for why fake a post restriction: Scum reason would be fakeclaiming. Town reasons would include "Because he can", "Because he wants to", and "Stir up conversation". I've seen townies gambit worse D1. But none of the previous ASoIaF games have included anything similar, even though they could've.

nonsensical from a setup POV.

*opens mouth, revealing lack of tongue*

Setup. Not theme. I get the theme.

[GreyICE]

Okay Magua, lets debate setup.

Last setup had namecops, and 2 mafia godfathers who namecopped to their fake claim. For this to be plausible, hascow would have to namecop to that particular fake claim, seen that he was the godfather with ONE PARTICULAR character, and faked a post restriction based on that ONE CHARACTER. So if he's scum, he's either hella lucky, or just dumb and will get lynched day 2/3 easy. So he's a FUCKING DUMB day 1 lynch.

DGB is scummy for how she's prosecuting the case, because I think she's smarter than this. It's an easy case to make, but it's full retard for the town to even consider it. "Ooh, look, I'm proactively scumhunting!" The fact that she didn't even bother to look up the game sticks in my craw - that's fucking lazy, which is more a characteristic of scum trying to throw shit around than town trying to scumhunt.

Also, LAL. It can go wrong, but I'm fucking feeling it.

[Magua]

Okay Magua, lets debate setup.

Last setup had namecops, and 2 mafia godfathers who namecopped to their fake claim. For this to be plausible, hascow would have to namecop to that particular fake claim, seen that he was the godfather with ONE PARTICULAR character, and faked a post restriction based on that ONE CHARACTER. So if he's scum, he's either hella lucky, or just dumb and will get lynched day 2/3 easy.

Scum know their fakeclaims. So your post boils down to, "If he's scum, he knows his fakeclaim, and is faking a post restriction based on it." To which, I agree. But it's not like that's three different pieces that all magically fell together. I have every single ounce of confidence that if hasdgfas is name-copped, he'll come up as Ilyn Payne.

So he's a FUCKING DUMB day 1 lynch.

Which is why I'm not voting him.

DGB is scummy for how she's prosecuting the case, because I think she's smarter than this. It's an easy case to make, but it's full retard for the town to even consider it. "Ooh, look, I'm proactively scumhunting!" The fact that she didn't even bother to look up the game sticks in my craw - that's fucking lazy, which is more a characteristic of scum trying to throw shit around than town trying to scumhunt.

Also, LAL. It can go wrong, but I'm fucking feeling it.

My problem with a DGB lynch at this point is that it gets no information if she's town. Everyone'll say, "Well, DGB was acting super scummy. Had to lynch her." and there we'll be. But DGB always acts super scummy. It's a nulltell for her. It's like Jack scumslipping D1. Much better to vig her than lynch her.

But let's explore this. Hasfgdas is voting for Shadow instead of DGB, even after DGB makes the post about him faking a posting restriction before.

@GreyICE:

First, I think Shadow's town. Do you think Shadow's town?
Secondly, how does hasfgdas not voting DGB fit in with your theory that DGB is completely lying her ass off?

[GreyICE]

1) don't do town lists too often anymore unless replacing in or good reason. I read towns posts not lynch em. I can do a scummy list if anyone cares, but the tldr is dgb is top. Plus I answered shadow question in earlier post.

2) Dun know dun care. She is reading scum to me. And your WIFOM theory is just bad.

[Magua]

1) don't do town lists too often anymore unless replacing in or good reason. I read towns posts not lynch em. I can do a scummy list if anyone cares, but the tldr is dgb is top. Plus I answered shadow question in earlier post.

2) Dun know dun care. She is reading scum to me. And your WIFOM theory is just bad.

You are not concerned with the part of mafia that is "trying to convince other people that you're right"? If your DGB case has merit, do you not expect that hasfgdas would be the first to recognize it?

Unrelated to the DGB/GreyICE/hasfgdas brouhaha, I don't like Diddin's #132 . It's mostly attack without adding anything of value, but then caps it off by saying DGB is the largest town read, which makes my head hurt. I read this as "attack chesskid, attack GreyICE, buddy DGB".

UNVOTE: Percy
VOTE: diddin

[Benmage]

unvote vote danakillsu

I'm pissed that I'm town ....chess is town, next idiot to go.

Sparkle get ur ass in here and raise me. Mina tell them.

[GreyICE]

1) don't do town lists too often anymore unless replacing in or good reason. I read towns posts not lynch em. I can do a scummy list if anyone cares, but the tldr is dgb is top. Plus I answered shadow question in earlier post.

2) Dun know dun care. She is reading scum to me. And your WIFOM theory is just bad.

You are not concerned with the part of mafia that is "trying to convince other people that you're right"? If your DGB case has merit, do you not expect that hasfgdas would be the first to recognize it?

Unrelated to the DGB/GreyICE/hasfgdas brouhaha, I don't like Diddin's #132 . It's mostly attack without adding anything of value, but then caps it off by saying DGB is the largest town read, which makes my head hurt. I read this as "attack chesskid, attack GreyICE, buddy DGB".

UNVOTE: Percy
VOTE: diddin

Sure, I expect he'll have input into what I said. After he, y'know, reads the thread and comments on it. He hasn't POSTED since then.

My case is convincing, and this is pretty sad. Magua, question time (since that's the new black): If hascow shows up and votes for her in the next post, would you vote for her based on what you've read?

[Benmage]

Your case on dgb?

Bullet it.

[Magua]

Sure, I expect he'll have input into what I said. After he, y'know, reads the thread and comments on it. He hasn't POSTED since then.

On the contrary, I specifically checked that he had.

DGB's "Once, he faked a crippling restriction where he claimed to gain powers by following it. He was lying scum" is #217.
hasdgfas posts in #223, even *responds* point by point to what DGB said, does not vote her, leaves vote on Shadow.
You (GreyICE) start in #225.

My case is convincing, and this is pretty sad. Magua, question time (since that's the new black): If hascow shows up and votes for her in the next post, would you vote for her based on what you've read?

I find your case to be unconvincingly. I do not find hasdgfas' actions so far to be town, and I especially do not like his vote on Shadow. If he were to show up now and vote for DGB, I would ask why he didn't in post #223.

[Eddard Stark]

Vote count 1.5

Twilight Sparkle (1) Zdenek
Zdenek (1) MagnaofIllusion

Shadow1psc (4) Hasdgfas, zoraster, Twilight Sparkle, Mikujin

DrippingGoofball (3) Bunnylover, Locke Lamora, GreyICE
xvart (1) Song of Ice and Fire
Mikujin (1) Danakillsu
LynchMePls (1) DrippingGoofball
Bunnylover (1) chesskid3
GreyICE (2) diddin, LynchMePls
Song of Ice and Fire (1) Raivann
diddin (1) Magua
danakillsu (1) Benmage

Not voting (8) Nexus, Percy, xvart, Xtoxm, Shadow1psc, Feysal, Kast

With 25 alive it takes 13 to lynch.

Raise Count 1.5

Locke Lamora (1) Locke Lamora
LynchMePls (1) LynchMePls
MagnaOfIllusion (1) MagnaofIllusion
Hasdgfas (2) Hasdgfas, GreyICE
Twilight Sparkle (1) Magua
Mikujin (1) Mikujin
DrippingGoofball (3) Danakillsu, diddin, Raivann
Bunnylover (1) Bunnylover
Danakillsu (1) chesskid3
Benmage (2) Benmage, Song of Ice and Fire

Not raising (11)Nexus, Percy, xvart, Xtoxm, Zdenek, Zoraster, Twilight Sparkle, DrippingGoofball, Feysal, Kast, Shadow1psc

With 25 alive it takes 13 to raise someone

*Any mistakes in the votecount PLEASE point them out. God knows it'd not be the first time I made a mistake.
* No one is currently due a prod
* xvart and Zdenek are currently on v/la untill Sunday and Monday
* Deadline countdown is here

[Kast]

D1 townlists without concrete info behind them are pretty lol.

I'm not seeing the DGB scum case, and Greyice pushing so hard on something so weak/null is weird.

@Theme/Flavor-
I haven't read any of the books, etc. and I haven't taken the time to read the prior games in this series (nor am I very motivated to do so). It sounds like some people are expecting multiple scum teams based on those games? Could someone who actually played the prior games please summarize anything mechanics-wise that is likely to be carried over from those games to this one? Thanks.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Unraise MoI
Raise Benmage

I’m willing to do this based on past experiences with you Ben. Don’t disappoint me.

--

Also, I forgot about LMP, it's fixed now.

So your read (which I understand is limited) on LMP is stronger than your Locke read. Do you see strong differences between LMP’s play here and in Clash where you called him UberObvTown?

--

Holy shit, it posts content! And decent content. Unvote

What about DGB posting content reversed your previous views on him as scummy in the first quote?

The 'teehee, memory didn't serve correctly' or 'omg it was like three years ago' isn't going to fly when you just tried to get someone lynched by lying. I found the game in like 5 minutes, I can't believe that she didn't even bother to look it up.

So you object to it as a lie because of the following element in his recollection were wrong – that Hascow faked the post restriction. Because every other element was accurate – Cow gained powers when posting under the restriction and was scum. Or is it that she didn’t directly look it up but went off memory that is scummy?

How again is DGB pushing hard for Cow’s lynch when she is voting for LMP again?

--

I'll take zoraster off town list. I just iso'd him after that comment from Greyice.I don't like his vote for Shadow much either.

So you just threw zoraster on your Town list just based on his name as opposed to based on his actual play?

--

But none of the previous ASoIaF games have included anything similar, even though they could've.

So your set-up argument revolves around Mod-meta specific to the Game of Thrones mini and Clash of Kings?

But let's explore this. Hasfgdas is voting for Shadow instead of DGB, even after DGB makes the post about him faking a posting restriction before.

Um what? Are you saying Cow must vote for DGB since DGB said he was faking a restriction and thus scum?

I find your case to be unconvincingly. I do not find hasdgfas' actions so far to be town, and I especially do not like his vote on Shadow. If he were to show up now and vote for DGB, I would ask why he didn't in post #223.

Do you find diddin’s post scummier than Cow’s posts since you are voting for diddin currently?

--

On the whole, liking GreyICE.

Elaborate on why.

[Magua]

D1 townlists without concrete info behind them are pretty lol.

I'm not seeing the DGB scum case, and Greyice pushing so hard on something so weak/null is weird.

@Theme/Flavor-
I haven't read any of the books, etc. and I haven't taken the time to read the prior games in this series (nor am I very motivated to do so). It sounds like some people are expecting multiple scum teams based on those games? Could someone who actually played the prior games please summarize anything mechanics-wise that is likely to be carried over from those games to this one? Thanks.

There were two scumteams in the last game, which you can read here: Clash of Kings Mafia

Briefly: Many weak town PRs. A different punishment/reward that can be voted onto someone every day (like governor, today).

Quick overview of Storm of Swords: http://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/A_Storm_of_Swords

Themewise, the Starks are certainly a mafia group (see OP). The Greyjoys could be a possible mafia group, but speculating on whether there's two mafia groups and/or an SK is kind of pointless before D2.

So your set-up argument revolves around Mod-meta specific to the Game of Thrones mini and Clash of Kings?

Yes. I assume things are the same unless I have reason to believe they are different. Eg, I also assume that every single scum has been given a fakeclaim.

Um what? Are you saying Cow must vote for DGB since DGB said he was faking a restriction and thus scum?

No. The question was directed at GreyICE, not at hasdgfas. I'll summarize:

1. GreyICE finds DGB scummy for things DGB said about hasdgfas.
2. hasdgfas, who saw and responded to the things DGB said, is not voting DGB. (Assumption, here, is that hasdgfas does not find what DGB said scummier than Shadow, who he is voting.)
3. I ask GreyICE how #2 affects his opinion on his case.

Do you find diddin’s post scummier than Cow’s posts since you are voting for diddin currently?

Yes.

[GreyICE]

Can Wallbanger give me one good reason that we'd lynch hascow today? Just one? His posts are lots of sound and fury, signifying nothing.

[MagnaofIllusion]

@Theme/Flavor-
I haven't read any of the books, etc. and I haven't taken the time to read the prior games in this series (nor am I very motivated to do so). It sounds like some people are expecting multiple scum teams based on those games? Could someone who actually played the prior games please summarize anything mechanics-wise that is likely to be carried over from those games to this one? Thanks.

I’ll expand on the mechanics elements from Clash of Kings. Each day for the first 4 days the Mods gave the players a unique event to vote on.

Day 1 (Hand of the King) – As with this game Day 1 a Hand was raised that had Double-voting power for the rest of the game.

Day 2 (Mob Action) – the Mods locked the thread for 24 to 48 hours to conduct a secret vote. The player who received the most votes in that period was Stabbed. This removed their vote for the day and rendered them Vanilla.

Day 3 (Light a Candle) – Players were allowed to step forward to be inspected by the Gods. Once players had finished stepping forward a popular vote was taken. The winner was subject to a guaranteed sane Cop scan made public in thread by the Mods.

Day 4 (Fire on the Island) – Two players were lynched this Day. When one player was hammered the person with the second most votes was also killed.

--

No. The question was directed at GreyICE, not at hasdgfas.

Ok, gotcha.

--

Can Wallbanger give me one good reason that we'd lynch hascow today? Just one? His posts are lots of sound and fury, signifying nothing.

Listen Fate-lite. I addressed you with questions for a reason. Dodging them isn’t going to make them go away.

I love the reliance on rhetoric though. Shows me much about how you approach the game.

[GreyICE]

Have to admit your first few posts were totally worthless and frustrating to decipher, so now I'm mostly skimming the walls. It'll save my eyes and my time. Care to summarize anything important I missed? I looked back but I didn't see anything that jumped out, question-wise.

Also, I'm laughing at the idea that I 'rely on rhetoric' because I try to make my posts readable

[Raivann]

@MoI-No. Just took a closer look.
Any thoughts/views on Song?

[MagnaofIllusion]

Also, I'm laughing at the idea that I 'rely on rhetoric' because I try to make my posts readable

Do you understand what rhetoric is? It's constantly making references to someone being "scumtastic" or "fluffy" and using insults without providing reasons. Instead of calling someone by name you've proceeded to label several players with nicknames meant to undercut their credibility.

I'll say it again - Reading isn't a hardship. Mafia is a WRITTEN game. If you don't want to read go find another hobby like Etch-a-Sketch or Lite Brite.

I'll ask again since you use the "I'm skimming" excuse not to answer direct questions -

What about DGB posting content reversed your previous views on him as scummy?

So you object to it as a lie because of the following element in his recollection were wrong – that Hascow faked the post restriction. Because every other element was accurate – Cow gained powers when posting under the restriction and was scum. Or is it that she didn’t directly look it up but went off memory that is scummy?

How again is DGB pushing hard for Cow’s lynch when she is voting for LMP again?

--

Any thoughts/views on Song?

Song doesn't exactly have a long ISO even at this point. Her one post with content I would characterize as Agreeable almost to fault. Gut at this point says she is Newbie scum wanting to not make waves. I'll need to see more to form a full read.

[GreyICE]

First, Wallbanger, reading your posts is a hardship because they're terribly, terribly written. I'm not really going to be doing it if this continues in the thread, and I don't really care what you think of that. I do not think that long, pointlessly rambling posts full of ridiculous questions, half-mumbled answers, and asinine theories is worth my time. And they're definitely no sort of town tell. Now, for your questions.

What about DGB posting content reversed your previous views on him as scummy?

Posting content and doing analysis is pro-town, not doing that is not pro-town. Even if scum is faking analysis and reads, it gives us ways and information to find their scumbuddies. Also, it's harder to keep up a pro-town facade when you have to have reasons for voting and vote for people and have scum reads and town reads and all that.

Or is it that she didn’t directly look it up but went off memory that is scummy?

It's because she used something that was factually untrue to cast suspicion on someone. That's fucking bullshit, and it doesn't fly. Now here's a question for you: Why not let her defend herself? You earning white knight points somewhere? It's almost too bad that the answers are going to be buried inside a 4,000 word wall of long quotes interspersed with insipid one liners and pointless rambling so I really won't ever read them.

How again is DGB pushing hard for Cow’s lynch when she is voting for LMP again?

RTFT. Yeah, these were a total waste of my time. Thanks. Lets not do that again.

[GreyICE]

Oh yeah, and DGB is a 'her.' I figured this out because I'm reading the thread, not abusing multitab and the quote button.