Newbie 1046: Game Over

[AwesomePoe]

There isn't a real reason for you not to lynch me. Its the only why for people to be sure about my alignment, and there are no other real candidates. You had three wagons today, hurri, briefly Zach and me. The AP wagon is going to lynch because I've been around longer. I have no idea why NS asked for more time to read the thread, because honestly if he hammered, that would be awful. NS hasn't been seen as pro-town yet. A hammer from him would look more scummy than anything I ever did. I just want to stop hanging over my head. I also find it unsettling that StefanB took the time to do a PBPiso on me. That effort is wasted because I am already here to hang and there is nobody else to convince that I should be here.

If there is one person I think that should hang with me its Zach. Zach never had his own solid case against me or Ghostlin. He has been aggressive in spreading scum reads on everybody. And he is using the wiki heavily to support himself. He used it in reading hurristat doc-read, and he used it when trying to illicit scum reads from me on people on the WIR wagon. The wiki should not be used as a sword because it isn't true everywhere. Using it in the way Zach used it only gives the appearance of town behavior.

[Nobody Special]

Hi. I'm on page 10.

Fascinating game.

[StefanB]

AwesomePoe wrote:

There isn't a real reason for you not to lynch me. Its the only why for people to be sure about my alignment, and there are no other real candidates.

I think the main reason that there isn't a reason to not lynch you, is that you over zero defence. Sorry the only one who tryed to make points that you are not mafia was Haylen.

I have no idea why NS asked for more time to read the thread, because honestly if he hammered, that would be awful. NS hasn't been seen as pro-town yet. A hammer from him would look more scummy than anything I ever did.

Hm, a deadlinehammer is always a difficult think. Asking for time to read the tread and give insight is not wrong.

I also find it unsettling that StefanB took the time to do a PBPiso on me. That effort is wasted because I am already here to hang and there is nobody else to convince that I should be here.

So you think making sure that the in my opinion right person is hanged is unsettling? Analyzing your play is a wast of time? Puh, you make lynching you very easy.

[AwesomePoe]

Its easy because its already happening. You're going to look stupid, I assure you.

[Zachrulez]

Its easy because its already happening. You're going to look stupid, I assure you.

He wouldn't look stupid if he was scum pushing for your mislynch. Why do you not seem to be considering that possibility?

[Zachrulez]

Its easy because its already happening. You're going to look stupid, I assure you.

He wouldn't look stupid if he was scum pushing for your mislynch. Why do you not seem to be considering that possibility?

Basically why specifically target Stefan with that statement?

[AwesomePoe]

Zach you setting the seeds for a case against StefanB, and I’m not going to help you. If I flip town, you are going to use this against StefanB. If I am town then SB pushing the lynch on me, makes him scummy right? No, it doesn’t.

[Zachrulez]

Looking through Poe's iso, I'm not finding much mention of Haylen.

Also this post in paticular bothers me.

@Ghsotlin: that doesn’t make sense, why would I say that? The point was whether or not WIR self-hammer which nobody saw coming was not the point. The point was Haylen was the last to vote WIR, and she did so when it wasn’t all that necessary. She could have torn down his case with plastic safety scissors, it was so weak, but keep her vote off WIR. WIR was an easy lynch because of his mishandling of the whole game. The players at the tail end of his wagon look scummy, because at that point of the day everyone could make a case against him, town and mafia.

@hurri: you’re leaving out two really anti-town cases in the SB vs AP argument. There are two directions the mafia “->” can go. Does my alignment reflect more on SB, or does vice versa?

If it is the case that both AP and SB are town, then this is day two frustration coming to boil. Two townies are looking for the scum they didn’t find in the day one lynch and are now focusing on the other as the probable scum they missed on day two. However, if it is the case that both AP and SB are both mafia, this is an altogether different animal.

Then the argument is two scum buddies distancing themselves from each other. SB looks more town then scummy to other players, while I look the scummiest to the most town looking players. This case is not likely, because one of the couple is secure in his town status while the other has thrown his security away. Distancing is unnecessary in the current environment.

Remember this, whatever happens this day, it is ultimately more important not to rush. We don’t have much of the info we wanted from day one. Since two players are being replaced. I don’t know how to access their alignment, or even consider them in my day two vote.

I see him laying the groundwork for suspecting people on the WIR wagon, but then when it comes down to it, the entirety of his suspicions and votes end up focusing on off wagon voters. This would be fine, if it weren't for the groundwork here standing out like a sore thumb. It seems as though he pursues his suspicions in the manner he does in a calculating manner, in that both scum were actually on the WIR wagon, and that aknowledging the scumminess of the late wagoners while quietly casting it aside is the perfect play to coast along into endgame.

Afterall, when you can attack lurky player slots, while not making an issue of arguing the difference between yourself and the other players who were actively on the WIR wagon, you're in a pretty comfortable position.

[Zachrulez]

Zach you setting the seeds for a case against StefanB, and I’m not going to help you. If I flip town, you are going to use this against StefanB. If I am town then SB pushing the lynch on me, makes him scummy right? No, it doesn’t.

No, I'm wondering why you seem to not have any doubt about his alignment. (Scum knows what everyone's alignment is.)

You seem to be addressing him as if you

know he is town.

[Ghostlin]

Zach you setting the seeds for a case against StefanB, and I’m not going to help you. If I flip town, you are going to use this against StefanB. If I am town then SB pushing the lynch on me, makes him scummy right? No, it doesn’t.

No, I'm wondering why you seem to not have any doubt about his alignment. (Scum knows what everyone's alignment is.)

You seem to be addressing him as if you

know he is town.

Let me ask you a question for a second: if he's scum knowing he's about to hang, why would he do anything more scummy? What's his motivation for addressing Stefan B as town?

[Ghostlin]

EBWOP: Outside of an ATE; I don't see a reason.

[Haylen]

I would also like to hear more from NS, even if it's only an "I am at page ..." post.

Haylen: I didn't try to make new content. I just wanted to give an overview on AwesomePoes play, what has he done what are the most important thinks on his play, what is the case against him...
I thought since he is one of the lynchkandidates my post could help people who are not sure or are NS to see what was important of his play.
AwesomePoe vanishing is nothing new.
Also:

THE NICE NEW ACTIVITY OVERVIEW SAYS HE DOES!!!

Were is that from?

That's fine, you're a newbie, I'm not going to attack you for not being able to make a perfect PBPA. I could see what you were attempting to do, it was more Ghostlin I was commenting on.

Goo to the bottom of the page, you see the links to different page numbers, under that there should be link saying 'Activity Overview', Me and Zach can definately see it (they're on every page) but I'm not sure if anyone without modding permissions can. :/

[Ghostlin]

I would also like to hear more from NS, even if it's only an "I am at page ..." post.

Haylen: I didn't try to make new content. I just wanted to give an overview on AwesomePoes play, what has he done what are the most important thinks on his play, what is the case against him...
I thought since he is one of the lynchkandidates my post could help people who are not sure or are NS to see what was important of his play.
AwesomePoe vanishing is nothing new.
Also:

THE NICE NEW ACTIVITY OVERVIEW SAYS HE DOES!!!

Were is that from?

That's fine, you're a newbie, I'm not going to attack you for not being able to make a perfect PBPA. I could see what you were attempting to do, it was more Ghostlin I was commenting on.

Goo to the bottom of the page, you see the links to different page numbers, under that there should be link saying 'Activity Overview', Me and Zach can definately see it (they're on every page) but I'm not sure if anyone without modding permissions can. :/

I can see it too.

[AwesomePoe]

If I flip scum, then I would know he was town. You are again spreading scum reads, this time based solely on my posts. But that only works if I have more information than other town. If I have more info my votes would reflect a scummy vote pattern. Before today's lynch you can make all kinds of inferences based on my posts, and build the framework for cases after the lynch. But that only works if I flip scum.

[Ghostlin]

If I flip scum, then I would know he was town. You are again spreading scum reads, this time based solely on my posts. But that only works if I have more information than other town. If I have more info my votes would reflect a scummy vote pattern. Before today's lynch you can make all kinds of inferences based on my posts, and build the framework for cases after the lynch. But that only works if I flip scum.

This is horrible WIFOM. Each time I think you might be what I think you are, you do this. *sighs*

[Zachrulez]

Zach you setting the seeds for a case against StefanB, and I’m not going to help you. If I flip town, you are going to use this against StefanB. If I am town then SB pushing the lynch on me, makes him scummy right? No, it doesn’t.

No, I'm wondering why you seem to not have any doubt about his alignment. (Scum knows what everyone's alignment is.)

You seem to be addressing him as if you

know he is town.

Let me ask you a question for a second: if he's scum knowing he's about to hang, why would he do anything more scummy? What's his motivation for addressing Stefan B as town?

This is essentially arguing that scum make scummy posts intentionally.

Also under this much pressure, a scum (particularly a less experienced one) would be panicking and likely not thinking things through. (And leaking inside knowledge without realizing it.)

[Zachrulez]

Also WIFOM.

[Ghostlin]

Also WIFOM.

So's yours. If he has no reason to reasonably suspect thus far that SB is anything but town, and he's the previous post, and he says 'I think you're making a horrible mistake' to someone he thinks is town and no one, even you, have really built a scum case on him; how else would he address him? (Also, SB made the post before his, so your argument doesn't make much space.)

The AP case needs no seasoning. We all know what the case is. He will be lynched today at deadline per Haylen. Why are you trying so hard?

[Ghostlin]

EBWOP: space=sense

[Zachrulez]

Also WIFOM.

So's yours. If he has no reason to reasonably suspect thus far that SB is anything but town, and he's the previous post, and he says 'I think you're making a horrible mistake' to someone he thinks is town and no one, even you, have really built a scum case on him; how else would he address him? (Also, SB made the post before his, so your argument doesn't make much space.)

That was in response to you asking what reason he would have to do that. I added WIFOM as a reason for doing it. As in to create WIFOM for future day phases.

The AP case needs no seasoning. We all know what the case is. He will be lynched today at deadline per Haylen. Why are you trying so hard?

So I shouldn't continue to re-read and analyze moving forward? This implies that I should be content with his lynch and that continuing to scumhunt even now is a bad thing.

[Zachrulez]

I'll grant the town argument that you made is plausible, but I think it's less likely at this point.

[Zachrulez]

Poe if you actually are town, you should post a full suspicion list.

[Ghostlin]

Also WIFOM.

So's yours. If he has no reason to reasonably suspect thus far that SB is anything but town, and he's the previous post, and he says 'I think you're making a horrible mistake' to someone he thinks is town and no one, even you, have really built a scum case on him; how else would he address him? (Also, SB made the post before his, so your argument doesn't make much space.)

That was in response to you asking what reason he would have to do that. I added WIFOM as a reason for doing it. As in to create WIFOM for future day phases.

The AP case needs no seasoning. We all know what the case is. He will be lynched today at deadline per Haylen. Why are you trying so hard?

So I shouldn't continue to re-read and analyze moving forward? This implies that I should be content with his lynch and that continuing to scumhunt even now is a bad thing.

Acutally, it's not contentment I'm wondering about; it's how convinced you think AP is scum. Except for one single vote on me when I removed my vote from AP, you've been chasing and tunnelling this lynch HARD. And even then, part of the reason you voted me was the seeming hypocracy of me removing my vote from AP.

Fact is, in your 'reanalysis' of the thread, you're beginning to use crap logic. That's my concern: if AP has no reason to suspect SB as scum, and none of us have really had placed a case on him, he's played the cleanest game. AP believes that SB is town, he's said it in thread. You could of logically pointed out that 'you're making a mistake' is an blantant AtE, but you get him on 'he's addressing him as town, that makes him scummy!' When none of us, even you have gone 'this is a case why SB is scum.'

In fact, your counter is that it may be exactly what he wants, he may be a scum looking for a mislynch; which proves AP's point;

that could be lampshading the ghost of a case on SB.

Also, this also is really bad reasoning, because if I knew my scumbuddy was on a wagon a scum, why wouldn't I address them as town to create more WIFOM, to create a seemingly 'cleared' townie?

Yes, this is all conditional, but it's almost like you're trying to cover your bases regardless of what AP flips.

[Zachrulez]

I'm not big on ATE. (I've found through experience that it's not actually a scumtell.) I do get weary when someone talks as though they are sure someone is town. (Even when you have town reads, there is a point where the certainty gets uncomfortable.)

The point itself that I'm making only has any merit if Poe flips scum, as it would point even more heavily toward Stefan's alignment. (Almost certainly town.)

If he flips town, then yeah, it's just a townie addressing someone he has a town read on.

Neither side of the argument is any kind of lampshading for a case on Stefan.

[AwesomePoe]

Poe if you actually are town, you should post a full suspicion list.

No