A Storm of Swords - Lay your swords down!

[Twilight Sparkle]

I'm certain you two can have this discussion about differing styles without resorting to personal insults. Do so.

[GreyICE]

There's no style there, Sparky! If five people were posting like that I'd be tearing out my hair trying to read the thread and probably be replacing out.

He can't have the common courtesy to summarize his thoughts in a way that is at least readable, I'm not gonna have the courtesy to read him. He's wingeing at me that I'm not responding to some of the most ridiculous questions I've ever seen? I mean what do those questions tell us? Nothing. They're an enormous waste of time that spams up the thread with answers that tell us nothing. He's just asking questions for the sake of asking questions.

There's no discussion, because I'm done reading the walls. He earned his nickname fair and square.

[diddin]

GreyICE is town.

Pretty sure Shadow is town.

DGB doesn't make sense. As town or as scum. I have personal experience with this from Stars Aligned II. Nulltelling her.

$10 says Hasdgfas is faking his post restriction. It's cute, but it's also nonsensical from a setup POV. Undecided on scumminess; not enough information yet. Nulltell.

Don't like Benmage. Don't like "Mow down all the VIs." Don't like DGB's #166 treating it like a towntell.

This thread requires Percy, xtomx, and Feysal posting. And more Mikujin. And...well, too many others. But let's start there.

If you're as confident that GreyICE is town as it seems you are, why are you still raising Twilight Sparkle?

1) don't do town lists too often anymore unless replacing in or good reason. I read towns posts not lynch em. I can do a scummy list if anyone cares, but the tldr is dgb is top. Plus I answered shadow question in earlier post.

2) Dun know dun care. She is reading scum to me. And your WIFOM theory is just bad.

You are not concerned with the part of mafia that is "trying to convince other people that you're right"? If your DGB case has merit, do you not expect that hasfgdas would be the first to recognize it?

Unrelated to the DGB/GreyICE/hasfgdas brouhaha, I don't like Diddin's #132 . It's mostly attack without adding anything of value, but then caps it off by saying DGB is the largest town read, which makes my head hurt. I read this as "attack chesskid, attack GreyICE, buddy DGB".

UNVOTE: Percy
VOTE: diddin

ITT having townreads is scummy.

Can Wallbanger give me one good reason that we'd lynch hascow today? Just one? His posts are lots of sound and fury, signifying nothing.

More immature namecalling from GreyICE.

unraise, raise:Benmage

His cocky aggressiveness right out of the gate reads town to me, moreso than DGB.

Quit bitching about MOI's posting style ICE. Just because you can't read/don't like his posting style doesn't mean he's going to change it. The world doesn't revolve around you.

[DrippingGoofball]

One of these players is scum:
Hasdgfas, zoraster, Twilight Sparkle, Mikujin

Town:

DGB
Shadow
GreyICE - reluctantly. Please someone, vig this townie.
Benmage - no scum in his right mind would come right out and suggest we mow down a dozen VIs to make up for the scum NK'ing our best players.
Raivann - I'm going to take his word for it.
Chesskid3 - Oh, alright.
Magua

More data required:

danakillsu
diddin
Nexus
Benmage
MagnaOfIllusion
Zdenek
Zoraster
Twilight Sparkle
Song of ice and fire
Kast

Lurkers:

Xtoxm
Feysal
Percy

Scum:

Bunnylover - Cuz chesskid sayz so
hascow
LynchMePls
Locke Lamora
xvart - just to make him nervous

==============

In other news, the profanity is irritating.

[diddin]

You want a potential vig to kill someone you believe to be town over someone you believe to be scum?

FoS

[DrippingGoofball]

You want a potential vig to kill someone you believe to be town over someone you believe to be scum?

FoS

He's

that

annoying.

[GreyICE]

You want a potential vig to kill someone you believe to be town over someone you believe to be scum?

FoS

He's

that

annoying.

Obvscum being obvious.

[Nexus]

I'm torn about Benmage.

I think that he needs to abandon his "LET'S LYNCH ALL VIs" because it's pretty obvious noone is going to support it. So, leave it, and move on. Do some scum hunting.

I don't quite get why people are so eager to raise him, perhaps it's past experience with him. Since there is like four or five people that I've played with before here, I can't use that as a reason for raising someone,

especially as one of them is CK

*shot* However, I'm not convinced. What'll happen if we don't vote anyone to be raised? Does the power then disappear from the game?

GreyICE is striking me as scummiest so far. His constant repetition of "I don't trust anyone but myself yet" and other such phrases is grating on me, and he seems just too determined to get himself raised to the governor role. Whoever gets it should probably not be demanding it. Realistically. The argument with DGB is getting tedious. Why is DGB obvscum, exactly? Please, lay it out for us plebs.

I'm also of the opinion that DGB is leaning to be town rather than scum. I don't know why. I hate myself for saying this, but gut? perhaps. I'm not convinced by any of his attempts at "I'm gonna NK you" blustering, either.

vote: greyICE

This is the scummiest person I've found so far.

I almost voted Raivann for post #143 when I was re reading, but later posts changed my mind. Votes with no explanation, even in RVS (I'm not entirely convinced we were still in RVS) aren't helpful.

[Magua]

If you're as confident that GreyICE is town as it seems you are, why are you still raising Twilight Sparkle?

Same reason as when I raised them to begin with. I think their usage of governor will give me a greater ability to read them.

Grey has already stated he wouldn't use the ability, so raising him doesn't help at all.

ITT having townreads is scummy.

ITT, having an unjustified townread is scummy.

[Magua]

You want a potential vig to kill someone you believe to be town over someone you believe to be scum?

FoS

You're raising someone who has stated they want to policy lynch VIs, which is pretty equivalent. Please explain why one is FoSed and one is raised.

[Shadow1psc]

Deja vu. Today just seems like a big repeat of a lot of yesterday. Anyway, as mentioned before, my weekends with mafia are sparse. Grey has continually looked too pushy and boisterous, and is my strongest FoS at this point, so I'm going to lay my vote down now. I don't expect a quick lynch or anything, but I'm putting my stance out there.

VOTE: GreyICE

[Nexus]

Anyone who states they wouldn't use the governor ability, imo is a dirty liar.

We have no way of proving that they would or wouldn't use it. Say you had a solid town read on someone, but noone would listen. He's just been lynched. You have a governor role. Would you seriously not use it?

And if they're scum anyway, believing the "I won't use it" line is dumb.

I refuse to raise someone who says "I won't use it" until we get more solid content so as we can trust them.

[GreyICE]

Did go into it Nexus, but I'll do it again. She's got someone who is either obvtown or just walking dead in her scumlist, and attacked them, and I explained why it was nonsense. In addition, her attack was factually inaccurate, and she didn't even bother to check it.

Actually the entire list is bogus. Bunny doesn't read scum, Locke is on the list because he said she wasn't doing a town thing she normally does that she STARTED DOING AFTER THAT POST, she's got someone on V/LA on that list. The only person who even reads more than a little scum in the "scum" section is LMP, and she's pushed that wagon so hard she's managed to attract a whole, um... herself.

Everyone seems to be saying her play is inscrutable. That play? I can read that play, and

that's horrible.

P.S. The concept that we raise someone who isn't asking for it remains a scum concept. If we must do it, we raise hascow, because he's still either obvtown or dead scum walking.

PEDIT: Nexus, I said I would only use it on confirmed/confirmable townies, and if that wasn't enough for people, I'd throw it away day 1. If you think I'm lying, please provide some justification. And yes. I would not use a governor role on someone who I had a town read on and was being lynched. Lets say the person being lynched is scum. So what happens? Well, town has to settle for second best, who could very easily be town. Then the next day, they probably lynch the same person anyway. So then the day after that they lynch the governor, and look, you've wasted two lynches on townies because a goddamn governor was arrogant enough to think that their 'mystical gut read' was better than the town's votes. If the governor would use the ability on anything other than confirmed town or a quickhammer situation in LyLo they're a hazard to us all.

[Eddard Stark]

Vote count 1.6

Twilight Sparkle (1) Zdenek
Zdenek (1) MagnaofIllusion

Shadow1psc (4) Hasdgfas, zoraster, Twilight Sparkle, Mikujin

DrippingGoofball (3) Bunnylover, Locke Lamora, GreyICE
xvart (1) Song of Ice and Fire
Mikujin (1) Danakillsu
LynchMePls (1) DrippingGoofball
Bunnylover (1) chesskid3

GreyICE (4) diddin, LynchMePls, Nexus, Shadow1psc

Song of Ice and Fire (1) Raivann
diddin (1) Magua
danakillsu (1) Benmage

Not voting (5) Percy, xvart, Xtoxm, Feysal, Kast

With 25 alive it takes 13 to lynch.

Raise Count 1.6

Locke Lamora (1) Locke Lamora
LynchMePls (1) LynchMePls
Hasdgfas (2) Hasdgfas, GreyICE
Twilight Sparkle (1) Magua
Mikujin (1) Mikujin
DrippingGoofball (2) Danakillsu,Raivann
Bunnylover (1) Bunnylover
Danakillsu (1) chesskid3

Benmage (4) Benmage, Song of Ice and Fire, MagnaofIllusion, diddin

Not raising (11)Nexus, Percy, xvart, Xtoxm, Zdenek, Zoraster, Twilight Sparkle, DrippingGoofball, Feysal, Kast, Shadow1psc

With 25 alive it takes 13 to raise someone

*Any mistakes in the votecount PLEASE point them out. God knows it'd not be the first time I made a mistake.
* No one is currently due a prod
* xvart and Zdenek are currently on v/la untill Sunday and Monday
* Deadline countdown is here

[Nexus]

Hey now, I didn't mention the lists.

I don't like town/scum lists anyway. Especially not this damn early. Now it's just "Here are the people I like = town", "here are the people I don't know = null", "here is someone who took a shit on my dog = SCUM." They're dumb now, and not all that useful for the majority of other times. I concede sometimes they can be useful, particularly if there are glaring inconsistencies in the space of like a week, but generally just no.

So I do take your point on why you think she's scum. I don't think lists are inherently scummy, but I don't think they provide anything useful.

I don't believe that you would use it on confirmed/confirmable townies. I don't trust you to throw it away Day 1 either. That's why I don't want you to have it. The only people who should get it, if any, is someone who is absolutely confirmed 100% as townie. That's very unlikely to happen on Day 1, so I'd rather not raise anyone at all. If push comes to shove and someone presents a decent case, then maybe I'll change my mind, but that's my current opinion on the matter. Your case isn't convincing, fyi.

[GreyICE]

I would of course use it on confirmed/confirmable townies. That's the only reason I would, short we're in like 7 man LyLo, and I see someone vote followed by two posts that are just:

"WELL OKAY"
"VOTE: XXXXX"

If you don't believe I'd throw it away day 1, here's a simple solution: give it to me, make me promise to use it, and if I don't, lynch me day 2.

[GreyICE]

Or hell, lynch me day 1 if I don't. Give it to me, I'll pardon someone like HasCow or Twilight Sparkle who we're not going to lynch today anyway, and we can get on with our lives.

[Nexus]

Or I could just not give it to you.

You're pushing this too hard to be convincing.

[GreyICE]

Yep, because town have to push for good things to happen for town. It's scum who have the benefits of having someone looking out for them.

[LimMePls]

Or hell, lynch me day 1 if I don't. Give it to me, I'll pardon someone like HasCow or Twilight Sparkle who we're not going to lynch today anyway, and we can get on with our lives.

Why would this be good? Do you think there won't be relational tells to gather from the raising mechanic? I don't see why we should throw it away and "get on with our lives". This event has more town merit than just who ends up with the governor.

On that note:

Unraise
Raise: Magua

[GreyICE]

Why? Governor is a terrible power most often used to annoy everyone in the thread and sometimes used by scum to cause mislynches.

[Benmage]

Unraise MoI
Raise Benmage

I’m willing to do this based on past experiences with you Ben. Don’t disappoint me.

Despite rolling town. I've been looking forward to this game way too much to not give it my A-game.

So your set-up argument revolves around Mod-meta specific to the Game of Thrones mini and Clash of Kings?

Yes. I assume things are the same unless I have reason to believe they are different. Eg, I also assume that every single scum has been given a fakeclaim.

Fakeclaims are a commonality nowadays….but as for the mods they definitely wanted to be totally new/creative while keep somethings especially liked similar, but still new…hence the day events.

AFTER ALL look the Lannisters are town…W.T.F

There's no discussion, because I'm done reading the walls.

If you think thats walling...get off the site. You know nothing,

John Snow

Grey Ice. (not a crumb..just a fan)

Do some scum hunting.

I can multitask.

ITT having townreads is scummy.

ITT, having an unjustified townread is scummy.

Anyone bother asking for justification?

I bet I could make a town list of the playerlist. If I was asked to justify some of them, I'd say F----U.

Otherwise... Magua. Make a town to scum list of the playerlist and Justify all of them....Yep

PEDIT: Nexus, I said I would only use it on confirmed/confirmable townies, and if that wasn't enough for people, I'd throw it away day 1.

LOL...because confirmed townies are in danger of being lynched right?

I'm gonna use it as badassly as I can. Moar Raises.

or dead scum walking.

Explain?

I don't like town/scum lists anyway.

I dont like them either. I dont like alot of her playstyle. But she does them as town. So it’s a buncha of wine to talk about and not case worthy. Focus on something else.

On that note:

Unraise
Raise: Magua

That's your best town read?

[Magua]

Anyone bother asking for justification?

I bet I could make a town list of the playerlist. If I was asked to justify some of them, I'd say F----U.

Otherwise... Magua. Make a town to scum list of the playerlist and Justify all of them....Yep

I will summarize for you.

DBG has actually been my biggest townread so far in this game, don't know about anybody else.

I don't like Diddin's #132 . It's mostly attack without adding anything of value, but then caps it off by saying DGB is the largest town read, which makes my head hurt.

ITT having townreads is scummy.

So, he gives a townread on DGB. I state that I can't understand how someone can have a townread on DGB. He responds with "OMG you think having a townread is scummy."

In other words, he dodges justification and tries to deflect the suspicion at the same time, instead of, y'know, explaining why he thinks DGB is town.

That is what makes him scum.

[diddin]

ITT having townreads is scummy.

ITT, having an unjustified townread is scummy.

GreyICE is town.

Pretty sure Shadow is town.

Die self-contradicting scum.

Unvote Vote: Magua

You want a potential vig to kill someone you believe to be town over someone you believe to be scum?

FoS

You're raising someone who has stated they want to policy lynch VIs, which is pretty equivalent. Please explain why one is FoSed and one is raised.

DGB OUTRIGHT STATED that she thinks GreyICE is town, yet still wants him vigged. Benmage doesn't necessarily believe all the VIs he wants to lynch are town, he's just saying they're hard to read as town or scum.

[chesskid3]

Unvote

Vote: Diddin

People who go like "you said he's probably town but you want him dead LOL CONTRADICTION" are usually scum trying for easy targets.
there were other scummy comments you made too but I'm really lazy.
die plz?