Cold War Mafia - GAME OVER!!

[ThAdmiral]

Nothing up to now has been that scummy, except for the absence of scumhunting and for not helping the game along, but this post I have a more serious problem with. Earlier ThAdmiral called Furcolow's vote for survival pro-town behavior "if you are town". Furcolow did not even try to justify his vote with anything else, and he got a town read. However, PoisonIvy does not get equal treatment. She could be town too, she could want to survive too, but for her to even hint at another potential wagon is a scumtell. This reeks of a double standard. Furcolow gets town points for wanting to live, PoisonIvy gets scum points for even hinting at it. If I had to name a single post that suggests Furcolow and ThAdmiral being in the same scum team, this is it.

This is a slight misrep. I wasn't saying furculow is town

because

he voted someone for self-preservation. I said that a self-preservation vote is not a scummy move if the person doing the self-preservation vote was town.
Anyway - I think me and furc are on the same team. The town team. I already explained why I think furc is town based on meta and our previous games together. I don't see what is so hard to understand/scummy about that.

This was only the tenth post by ThAdmiral. Then there is more of defending Furcolow for not wanting to die in #209, and criticizing PoisonIvy in #238. I really wonder how no one else thought her reaction to pressure was very townish, she got her final reads out and seemed to accept she would be lynched. I can see no flailing from her at this time, and I don't like her being called a drama queen for endorsing her own lynch. ThAdmiral calls it scummy how GhostWriter is not scumhunting in #277, but I don't see him doing much of that either. Or sharing opinions, which he asks of Lowell in #293.

She soooo was being a drama queen. And I soooo have been sharing my opinions on tonnes of stuff this game.

In other news, I've become less fond of the Thad wagon. All of the points against him seem like someone's trying too hard to make the pieces fit together in a certain way.

This is bang on the money. I felt there was something weak/wrong/bad about the cases on me for a while now but couldn't quite put my finger on it, but this is it.

[Furcolow]

hmmm

[Sotty7]

Day I, Vote Count XV

Amrun - 5 -

XScorpion, Beasts of the Sea, RedCoyote, bvoigt, Stephoscope,

ThAdmiral - 8 -

Nachomamma8, EGL, LynchMePls, LlamaFluff, smargaret, GhostWriter, Amrun, Feysal

mothrax - 7 -

DavidParker, Scott Brosius, Lowell, Artem, InflatablePie, gonnano, ThAdmiral

Stephoscope - 1 -

Furcolow

Not Voting - 3 -

mothrax, Fuzzyman, Sathoris,

With twenty-four of you alive thirteen votes will lynch. The day will end on Sunday February 20th at 9am GMT.

Fuzzyman is being replaced

[bvoigt]

Furc, a Stephoscope vote is pretty useless at this point.

UNVOTE: Amrun
VOTE: ThAdmiral

There just doesn't seem to be quite enough support for Amrun's lynch, and I'd prefer this over jmj.

[gonnano]

What would a townie in his situation, with no time, do differently?

I don't think a townie would have waited quite so long to replace, knowing that he was hurting the town the whole time he was being inactive -- whereas a scum would actually come out ahead if he managed to pull through without being lynched. Instead of promising content and not delivering, he could have posted some limited content. He obviously had been reading people's criticism of him... if he had been reading those parts of the thread anyway, why couldn't he make a few brief comments about the stuff that wasn't directed at him? He also claimed to have taken notes, and even if he were swamped IRL I don't think it would have taken that long to post them.

I think it's very likely that he was telling the truth about having difficulties in the real world, but I also think it's very likely he was exaggerating the magnitude of those difficulties.

[Scott Brosius]

That's all very WIFOMy

[gonnano]

How so?
Even if you are short of time, the fact that you're still playing the game means you want to help your team in whatever marginal way that you can. For town that would mean posting the content that he ostensibly had already written out -- even if it wasn't much. For scum it would mean lurking.

[bvoigt]

@gonnano: While I get your point, it also seems pretty nitpicky, and not very reliable. What do you think of my Amrun case in ISO #23?

[LimMePls]

gonanno's trying to ascribe scum/town motivations to jmj's timing to declare his replacement seems strange to me. I'm pretty sure it's a null tell.

[gonnano]

@ bvoigt:

I don't think the fencesitting accusation has much weight against Amrun -- I'd say that it's perfectly fine for a new replacement not to have strong reads right away.

I can see where you're coming from about the vote on fuzzy, but I don't think it's a huge tell. IMO, scum would be more likely to join a wagon to avoid drawing attention to themselves.

The inconsistency that you brought up in Amrun's reason for voting is interesting, but it will take more than one example to convince me that it's scummy behavior on Amrun's part and not just a simple miscommunication. I've personally made similar inconsistent statements as town before (much too often, in fact), because I was in a hurry or didn't think I needed to be very specific.

I'm still willing to vote Amrun, though -- she hasn't done enough townie things to make up for PI's play.

[LlamaFluff]

I'm still willing to vote Amrun, though -- she hasn't done enough townie things to make up for PI's play.

So do you think Amrum, PIs play removed, is town?

[bvoigt]

I can see where you're coming from about the vote on fuzzy, but I don't think it's a huge tell. IMO, scum would be more likely to join a wagon to avoid drawing attention to themselves.

Really? Lurker votes rarely come under a lot of pressure. Wagon votes, depending on the situation, can be questioned and seen as a major scumtell. In other words, they're more risky for scum.

[GhostWriter]

I think it's very likely that he was telling the truth about having difficulties in the real world, but I also think it's very likely he was exaggerating the magnitude of those difficulties.

Form what his location says, and what my news channel said about events occurring around that time, he was in a city, with inches of ice on the ground, and snow above that. He needed to get around the city. Takes quite a while. I doubt the magnitude was exaggerated. That's why I took my vote off. It was doing nothing, since the pressure of the vote was ineffective.

As LMP has stated, the replacement was null. Scum would most likely not do what yo say, as they wouldn't want to risk being lynched because they promise content and never deliver, just to try to pull off a rather longshot gambit.

[Artem]

Artem - jmj was the day 1 lynch in black and white comic book mafia in Coney Island (sorry, too lazy to look up the link right now) for exactly the same delaying tactics/lack of analysis.

This is the game you're referring to and this is the type of a post that we were pressuring jmj to do.

I noticed Artem saying jmj3000 was referring to the same problems as in this thread in other games, but I like to see for myself.

Jmj made an all-familiar post in Outdoorsmen Mafia 2 where he recently flipped scum, but the game is ongoing so I'm not making any further comments on it past this sentence.

What is this Verona Mafia you speak of?

i just realized I got you confused with Artem

The Verona game I played in was before the site move.

----------------

In terms of the three wagons, my order of preference:

1. Amrun: The investigation mention by PI in her ISO #2, Amrum's reliance on "I know I'm town" and Amrum's "Everybody's guilty until proven innocent" are all the things lighting up my scumdar. (I actually don't find PI's setup discussion scummy, and I think that PI ignoring direct questions was her giving up on the game)

2. Jmj: I still think jmj was actively lurking, but he's done this in at least two other games (linked above), so it may or may not be directly related to his alignment. The difference in his town play was he actually came out and made a post with his reads. Interested in seeing some content from Moth.

3. ThAd: I still don't get this wagon. The primary case was revolving around ThAd not doing scumhunting, but a) why ThAd and not, say, one of the other lurkers? and b) ThAd DID post a defense that was never followed up on.

Ideally, I want to be voting Amrun, but the wagons seem to be ThAd(8), Jmj(7) and Amrun(5), so in the interests of consolidation, I'm keeping my vote on Moth for now.

[InflatablePie]

Still waiting on moth content. Yawn.

Honestly just posting to avoid prod to be honest. I just worked a 12-hour shift today though, and I work tomorrow as well, so expect a catch-up post on V-Day since I have off then. Apologies for being useless.

[Amrun]

I have not relied on being town as far as other people's reads go -- or at least, that has not been my intention.

All I was trying to do was explain my own reads. Since I came into a game. With a wagon already on me, I was analyzing people according to their interactions with my slot. As atownie, the only information you have is that you are town.

But it's Valentine's weekend and my boyfriend is mad at me for posting, so more will have to wait.

[Beasts of the Sea]

Really sorry again about my absence. I've had some connection issues since my V/LA was over but will be all caught up tomorrow with a sizable post.

[RedCoyote]

Poison Ivy is scum. Why exactly do I have to justify my vote anyways? Because I made it a long time ago? You yourself said the game is slow. Nothing has changed my opinion on who should be lynched.

jmj wagon is a go people. Lots of people are all basically nodding in agreement, without actually voting.

Vote: jmj

Just finished re-read/skim. ThAd is also scum. I'd be perfectly happy to lynch him as well. I'll post a case if people need it, but it's pretty obvious.

Our lynch today should be one of jmj or ThAd. Any other wagons that form (or get sudden boosts from nowhere) in the interim without REALLY good justification are going to look to me like counter wagons.

I'm willing to give jmj a reprieve if he actually re-engages with this game. For now, I feel much better about:

Unvote
Vote: ThAdmiral

This is the weird progression of LMP's posts I've kind of been fixated on the past few days. Ivy is definitely scum, to Ivy is leaning scum, to the Ivy wagon should be dismantled in favor of jmj or ThAdmiral. jmj wagon is a go, to jmj is his top scum pick (post 386), to jmj is just a lurker.

I just do not feel comfortable with LMP's moves at all.

---

Unvote

;

vote: mothrax

One player is defending themselves and the other player isn't. If anything, I'd rather take a player who talks to D2 than a player who doesn't just out of pure utility.

[LimMePls]

You don't see a logical progression there? Really?

[RedCoyote]

No, I do not. I see no reason why Ivy completely dropped off your radar after that show of confidence.

But, whatever. You won. I wasn't here to fight you over it, and everyone here thinks you're onto something with ThAdmiral.

[gonnano]

So do you think Amrum, PIs play removed, is town?

I'm not sure if separating the two has much significance... but in my mind Amrun's play by itself isn't anything really worth lynching her over. Does that answer your question? I guess the way to put it would be that I have basically a null read on Amrun and a scum read on PI, which equals a scum read on the slot.

Really? Lurker votes rarely come under a lot of pressure. Wagon votes, depending on the situation, can be questioned and seen as a major scumtell. In other words, they're more risky for scum.

You're right that one lurker vote isn't going to draw much pressure for the voter, but it does draw attention just by the fact that it's different from what other people are doing. Even attention without much pressure is bad news when you're trying to fly underneath the radar, because it means that any mistakes you make are more likely to be caught.
I think that in this case, scum could have joined a wagon and been reasonably sure of not getting any flak for it. So trying to start a new wagon, which is almost guaranteed to draw attention, doesn't make as much sense to me from a scum point of view. Then again, though, scum don't always do the things that I think make sense.

Form what his location says, and what my news channel said about events occurring around that time, he was in a city, with inches of ice on the ground, and snow above that. He needed to get around the city. Takes quite a while. I doubt the magnitude was exaggerated. That's why I took my vote off. It was doing nothing, since the pressure of the vote was ineffective.

Maybe I wasn't very clear about what I meant the first time. I didn't mean that I thought he was exaggerating about what was happening -- just about how much it was affecting the amount of time that he could spend on the game. I find it hard to believe that he had just enough time to post the things that he posted, but not ten seconds more to post content that he had supposedly already written.

[bvoigt]

So do you think Amrum, PIs play removed, is town?

I'm not sure if separating the two has much significance... but in my mind Amrun's play by itself isn't anything really worth lynching her over. Does that answer your question? I guess the way to put it would be that I have basically a null read on Amrun and a scum read on PI, which equals a scum read on the slot.

But you're sticking with the weak vote on mothrax?

[LimMePls]

No, I do not. I see no reason why Ivy completely dropped off your radar after that show of confidence.

But, whatever. You won. I wasn't here to fight you over it, and everyone here thinks you're onto something with ThAdmiral.

Again you say "completely dropped off your radar". Show how that is true in ANYWAY.

[gonnano]

But you're sticking with the weak vote on mothrax?

I don't think it's a weak vote, really, considering the options. JMJ and PI were both lurky, and both made some questionable posts. For me it comes down to the fact that I still am uneasy about the behavior that PI's wagon had when it started, so I think jmj is the better lynch of the two.

Note that I'd still greatly prefer a Lowell lynch to either of these two, but unfortunately that doesn't appear to be within reach.

[Lowell]

654 is so horrible it makes me embarassed to be on this wagon. Also, furc is town.