A Storm of Swords - Lay your swords down!

[Nexus]

#1 #8 and #9 in his ISO. They seem to be at least making some effort to scum hunt.

I mean, the fact it was a vote with no real explanation isn't good, but at least some more effort was made.

[Locke Lamora]

Unvote; Vote: Mikujin

I'm with Grey on this one. The unnecessary level of apologising in that excuse looks like scum trying too hard to explain absence.

Diddin also makes my scumlist for looking like he's more interested in point-scoring than scumhunting. Given the inconsistency over the VI comment, I'd also like to hear exactly what Song of Ice and Fire liked about Benmage's posts (the parts she understood, at any rate).

[xvart]

Sers and Ladies of the Court: I apologize for my absence during this trying time of our realm. If you have been searching for my voice amidst the chaos you need search no longer. I have just returned from the Caribbean and basking in the son for a week, working on a nice tan . I shall begin my read after I respond to about 200+ emails; but in the meantime, for ole CoK lulz:

VOTE: danakillsu

[DrippingGoofball]

Scum is concentrated here, this list of 8 players has at least 1.75 scums, 3.50 if we have two scum factions.:

Noob-(townie/scumbus)-easy-wagon: Hasdgfas, zoraster,

Twilight Sparkle

, Mikujin
Annoying-townie-easy-wagon: diddin,

LynchMePls

, Nexus,

Shadow1psc

Twilight Sparkle is prob town. If they AIM or whatever to share ideas, they're town. When you're scum, there aren't that many thoughts you need to share that couldn't be handled on a more leisurely platform like a good old QT, PM, or snailmail.

I'd love to remove other players from this list, but I can't. It's a pretty sketchy posse.

After TS is taken off the roster, the chance of hitting scum is 50%.

I'm going to put Shadow in a krap kolor because though he may be bus'ed, he's leaning town.

LMP is on my scumlist already.

[DrippingGoofball]

Noob-(townie/scumbus)-easy-wagon: Hasdgfas, zoraster, Twilight Sparkle, Mikujin
Annoying-townie-easy-wagon: diddin, LynchMePls, Nexus, Shadow1psc

Town:

DGB
Shadow
GreyICE - reluctantly. Please someone, vig this townie.
Benmage - no scum in his right mind would come right out and suggest we mow down a dozen VIs to make up for the scum NK'ing our best players.
Raivann - I'm going to take his word for it.
Chesskid3 - Oh, alright.
Magua
MagnaOfIllusion
Twilight Sparkle

More data required:

danakillsu
diddin
Nexus
Benmage
Zdenek
Zoraster
Song of ice and fire
Kast

Lurkers:

Xtoxm
Feysal
Percy

Scum:

Bunnylover - Cuz chesskid sayz so
hascow
LynchMePls
Locke Lamora
xvart

[Eddard Stark]

Vote count 1.8

Twilight Sparkle (1) Zdenek
Shadow1psc (2) zoraster, Mikujin
DrippingGoofball (1) Bunnylover
xvart (1) Song of Ice and Fire
Mikujin (1) Danakillsu
LynchMePls (1) DrippingGoofball
GreyICE (3) LynchMePls, Nexus, Shadow1psc
Song of Ice and Fire (2) Raivann, Twilight Sparkle
diddin (3) Magua, chesskid3, MagnaofIllusion
danakillsu (2) Benmage, xvart
Magua (1) diddin
Mikujin (2) GreyICE, Locke Lamora

Not voting (5) Percy, Xtoxm, Feysal, Kast, hasdgfas

With 25 alive it takes 13 to lynch.

Raise Count 1.8

Locke Lamora (1) Locke Lamora
Hasdgfas (1) GreyICE
Twilight Sparkle (1) Magua
Mikujin (1) Mikujin
DrippingGoofball (2) Danakillsu,Raivann
Bunnylover (1) Bunnylover
Danakillsu (1) chesskid3

Benmage (4) Benmage, Song of Ice and Fire, MagnaofIllusion, diddin

Magua (2) LynchMePls, Hasdgfas

Not raising (11)Nexus, Percy, xvart, Xtoxm, Zdenek, Zoraster, Twilight Sparkle, DrippingGoofball, Feysal, Kast, Shadow1psc

With 25 alive it takes 13 to raise someone

*Any mistakes in the votecount PLEASE point them out. God knows it'd not be the first time I made a mistake.
* Xtoxm, Bunnylover and Song of Ice and Fire will be prodded. I'll be lenient with activity/picking up prods, as it's Valentine's day weekend but still.
* Zdenek is currently on v/la untill Sunday and Monday. MoI is also V/la.
* Deadline countdown is here

[Shadow1psc]

DGB - why do you consistently have me in your (small) town read list, yet keep entertaining the idea that I may also be scum? Which is it?

[Benmage]

Moar raising.

[DrippingGoofball]

DGB - why do you consistently have me in your (small) town read list, yet keep entertaining the idea that I may also be scum? Which is it?

This is mafia we're playing.

[Mikujin]

unraise
unvote

Benmage has insisted he's town several times, and I care little for that. DGB keeps making lists, I abhor them (especially since they seem largely arbitrary). Grey is over-enthusiastic. Shadow seems new and silly (and is another one of those guys dropping "Aww shucks I'm not scum!" lines). Most others are either quiet or contemplative. I think I'm largely caught up now.

[Twilight Sparkle]

If you're not voting, you're not caught up.

[Benmage]

Hito why havent you guys raised someone?

[Twilight Sparkle]

Waiting to hear discussion on this:

Also, to the town at large: do we agree that popping governor immediately on a target no one wants lynched is the way to go?

[Benmage]

Depending on who was Hand. Its a trust issue...Both in the players abilities and of course their alignment. If I was Hand would you want me to do that?

[Benmage]

Regardless thats something that could even still be discussed once a Hand was made. Especially if they took a turn for the worse.

[Bunnylover]

@TS: Frankly I think the moment someone gets the governor ability they use it just to get it out of the way.

Unraise
Raise: Twilight Sparkle

Don't know why, but I have a feeling I can trust Twilight Sparkle.

[LimMePls]

Regardless thats something that could even still be discussed once a Hand was made. Especially if they took a turn for the worse.

In fact, I'd prefer we raised a hand before we discussed this. If we all agreed that the hand was meaningless because we're just gonna force them to burn it, then the raise votes have less meaning.

[Benmage]

Regardless thats something that could even still be discussed once a Hand was made. Especially if they took a turn for the worse.

In fact, I'd prefer we raised a hand before we discussed this. If we all agreed that the hand was meaningless because we're just gonna force them to burn it, then the raise votes have less meaning.

Thats a good point.

[Mikujin]

Also, to the town at large: do we agree that popping governor immediately on a target no one wants lynched is the way to go?

If no one wants the target lynched then it begs asking: why is said person being lynched in order for a governor to need to save them?

Ultimately, whoever gets the governor power is going to rely on gut (barring role-specific information).

If you're not voting, you're not caught up.

I'm choosing to withhold it until such time as I'm certain of my convictions. While it's by no means dangerous for me to use it at this point, I've no grounded suspicion of any one person at this time.

Likewise, I've not raised a new person for much the same reason; no one stands out and above as an example to the rest of us.

[diddin]

Regardless thats something that could even still be discussed once a Hand was made. Especially if they took a turn for the worse.

In fact, I'd prefer we raised a hand before we discussed this. If we all agreed that the hand was meaningless because we're just gonna force them to burn it, then the raise votes have less meaning.

Agreed. These raise votes show a lot about connections between people and shouldn't just be treated like nothing.

[xvart]

zoraster

(Post 11) - While moderately sound in reasoning, I find the comments about self raising a little too cautionary because I do not foresee any permutation of D1 activity that would allow for the scenario you outline (someone being raised with only 2 or 3 votes).

GreyICE

(Post 17) - Are you not confident in your scumhunting ability and that is why you would not use a strong mechanic for town (if you are town)? What about in tradition LYLO scenarios? And why are you voting DGB in post 21 over zoraster when he was the one that initially made the suggestion?

Now that I'm a little further on Page 2 I find it funny that the discussion about self raising is pretty much the complete opposite of the discussion in CoK.

MoI

(Post 43) -

Why are you holding on to your RVS vote when you clearly agree with lynch some VIs early in the game? Had you not identified any VIs at this point, either by current game play or past experience?

MoI expanded in post 84, but the question now is why all the bravado on how solid Benmage's observation was about how VIs can destroy town chances later in the game? And why wasn't it mentioned that you don't actually support lynching VIs unless they are scummy?

Noooooottt really, no. Don't have this amazing desire to find out what scum can do with a governor power. Don't have an amazing desire to find out if there's any powers that scum have brought online with this "Hand of the King" mechanic. Don't have any desire to find out that they have some sort of godfather powers or turn cops naive, or can get some cool thing if they're hand.

The Hand of the King is really only powerful late game, as a premise of the Raise is that it will go to a competent player, so an accidental lynch is out of the question. And, the Hand of the King is basically a death sentence sometime throughout the game as scum don't want a raised hand so that person will likely die sometime before it becomes a powerful town advantage and if that person flips scum we can go back and analyze the motivations behind the people raising that person.

I will claim this: I have absolutely no role powers that are turned on by being hand, I get nothing out of it besides what is stated in this thread, and I will use the Governor power for only the reason of preventing the lynch of

confirmed

town (and I don't mean their posts have been kinda townish), and absolutely not at all on day 1, period.

You said a few posts before this one you wouldn't use it at all.

And I don't want it to go to Twilight Sparkle, because frankly Sotty7 is dangerous enough as scum, nevermind throwing in two other excellent players, and I'm going to treat that hydra like a giant timebomb until it's confirmed town or confirmed dead.

Sotty is in the hydra? Hi Sotty. I must have missed the full rundown of who is in the hydra: hito, Sotty, and anyone else?

danakillsu

(Post 52) - DGB wasn't the person who pointed out "self raising was stupid."

LL

(Post 69) - I think it is a little premature to be calling out DGB for not aggressively scumhunting as per her usual fashion. There has been such little to go on (at the point of this post) other than Raise/Unraise discussion to make this a sound justification. Furthermore, at this point, DGB is actually participating more than I've seen her do in recent games.

Shadow

(Post 72) - I can't stand it when people claim to be the catalyst for early discussion. I generally find it an excuse for some identified scummy behavior; the only difference here is Shadow doesn't say it was intentional. Do you have any observations about the discussion that followed your comedy?

Bunnylover

(Post 85) - This is so unbelievably scummy/anti-town. Why would you ever advocate your own death if you are town? It is scummy because the statement suggests "Oh I'm so town because I am not afraid of dying" and it is anti-town because it is just terrible play.

Okay, I played in the last one, and I'm calling you on this. Are you honestly saying that any point during or after the game, you'd thought, "Gee, it's funny that a disproportionate number of scum are raising people others than themselves"? Even though MacavityLock and xvart, two of your three scumbuddies, both self-raised at first?

Mina is in the hydra too. Anyone else? Hi Mina. To clarify, the only reason I self raised was because I was just trying to blend in since the discussion was gearing that way. I was pretty worried about who to raise and what implications that would have later on. I also think at this point a good question to be asked is did any Raising analysis occur in CoK later in the game? I don't recall it ever playing a roll at all, but could be wrong.

It's simple, make me Hand.

Who wants their majority lynch aborted for terrible reasons? Who thinks that we're going to learn more about who is town and who is scum in a week? Or are we more likely for the scum to find a way to get a "townie enough" scum in place?

I believe three of the Greyjoy's were voting Percy to be raised out of completed threshold or 14. While there may have been some "influence" by the Greyjoy's in getting their partner raised but it was basically because of Percy's play. And, I'm still of the opinion that being raised isn't in the best interest of any scum because if there are multiple scum teams in this game the person Raised will be killed somewhere along the way (either because scum are scared of the double vote or because the person raised was raised because he is obvtown so to speak. I think I recall Percy saying post game or in the dead thread or somewhere that he didn't really want the position because of the scrutiny he was going to be under or because of the likely NK target, but he might can clarify his thoughts on this.

shadow

(Post 95) - wtf?

I just read the Hand of the King post and now realize it is a one shot governer ability (as opposed to like CoK), so scratch some of what I said regarding the longevity of the role and relevance to the last game. I need to stop assuming that things are like the last game...

Can someone explain to me who Hascow is since I haven't read SoS in four years?

And I think the coding proposed by GreyICE and stuff is going to confuse me unless it gets decoded along the way...

Kast

(Post 144) - What would prevent us from lynching scum later? From my experience it becomes increasingly difficult to lynch VIs later in the game either because town cannot afford to mislynch or there are other targets. I don't see how the dichotomy works in the given example.

Yeaaaahhhh. So lets see, I need a majority to agree to give me the power to keep it out of the hands of anyone who will misuse it, but any single townie could put it into someone's hands with one vote/unvote at the end of the day?

Despite your desperate attempts to get the governor power, you must concede that a lot of people disagree with your town credentials at this point in the game. Why do you keep pushing it?

This thread requires Percy, xtomx, and Feysal posting. And more Mikujin. And...well, too many others. But let's start there.

Why just start there? Why only call out those players? Is one or more of your scum buddies in that group and you want to get a passive aggressive attack on them?

I don't like Bunnylover's 204 calling out Benmage's "lining up lynches" of VIs and getting no connections there.

I could see a faked post restriction being formulated based off of a minor character fake claim. The other problem I have with the post restriction is it doesn't seem like it is standardized enough coming from Faraday. Moving into mod-WIFOM territory during when playing CoK I asked Faraday for a fake claim based on some compulsive role that if I didn't pick a target it would be randomly picked for me and he told me that, for my information, he didn't do things that aren't structured like that. At this point though, I've learned not to meddle in possible moderator motivations (right Chesskid? ). Something to keep in mind as we go.

Want another random wiki term, as MoI the wallbanger likes to call it? I'm feeling a strong case of LAL coming on.

Vote:DrippingGoofball

No reason to push this case that hard, and the lie doesn't sit well. Yeah, removing that vote was a mistake. The 'teehee, memory didn't serve correctly' or 'omg it was like three years ago' isn't going to fly when you just tried to get someone lynched by lying. I found the game in like 5 minutes, I can't believe that she didn't even bother to look it up.

This would be a pretty bad case of Lynch All Liars in my opinion. What scum motivation could be had from intentionally lying about something that was apparently easy to prove incorrect?

Manga

(Post 232) - in CoK the investigation immune Godfathers would have yielded their fake claim names as the results of a name cop.

Caught up through Page 10. I'll update my vote once I complete my read through.

[danakillsu]

@xvart
Okay, so Zoraster said something along those lines, too. Big deal.

[chesskid3]

I skimmed that wall and my name was nowhere in it, so I didn't read it
BL and diddin need pressures

[Percy]

Still very sick, sorry everyone. I will post within 24 hours!

[Bunnylover]

@Xvart: lol you so read that post wrong. I was jokingly saying if for some strange reason that everyone decided to give me the power, I would kill myself in real life. It was a joke.
Are you saying you agree with Benmage in that lynching 3 to 4 player without gathering any information (because what would be discuss if the lynch is already settled?)? What exactly is wrong with pointing that out?

@Chesskid3: That is true. I do need pressure.