Execution Mafia GAMEOVER!

[Twistedspoon]

The executioner is only going to execute who we tell them to execute. If they execute somebody else, then we kill them as soon as possible.

This is fine if we assume the town all want an execution of the same person (or at least a majority)
In cases of an even split things get more complicated, and the executioner's own bias could become a factor, especially if mafioso.

If we haven't elected an executioner in 24 hours, then everybody who obstructs that process is going to shoot right up my scumlist.

Surely everyone could be accused of obstructing since we'd have no majority :/
how are you going to define obstructing the election? Best to clarify this now before we start accusing :/

I chose Exe because he seemed reasonably pro-town. I

Why past tense?

Requesting vote count please.

Also, prod CoolDog if appropriate; I haven't been checking when he last posted, I just don't have an impression of him.

have fun in Russian history class

[Exe]

@ Exe: Either shut up or get out. You've slipped from the best player in the game to the worst.

LOL real mature. I think I'll choose neither, mmk?

Hmm...who wants to die? TS? Amrun? Which to choose...

In other news,

@Amrun: Frankly, I don't really care what you plan to do with your career. It doesn't change the fact that context is a valuable asset, and you and I BOTH knew that TS was incorrectly accusing me of something. So really, you knew

exactly

what I was talking about...so why were you so eager to argue about the meaning?

@TS: I'd say you have about 3 posts to show me why you should live.

[Tragedy]

@Amrun: Why do you think it's not a good idea from choosing an executioner although having a town motivation from different ideals from others? Why do you have a solid townread on FF? Why FF instead of Exe?

@Ant_To_The_Max: If you're not voting Exe, who would be your most favorable executioner [Other than yourself] to vote of?

@Charter: Explain how haschel / SV looks town... Why do you think Ant should be killed?

@CooLDoG: Why do you think rolefishing is suspicious? How does vezo have a null-read? About the scumhunter, who do you think will be the most valuable one? If he's dead, who would be your next pick?

@Exe: Why do you ask Haschel of who shold die? How is trying to please many people scummy? Why should we make SV scummy along with TS, trying to take them both down during the whole Day/Night? Why so persistent over having more vote-coutns?

@FF: How do you have a town-read on TS when everyone sees that s/he's rolefishing as well? What do you think that you'll gain from killing TS instead of vezok?

@Haschel: Why did you vote for Charter, then switched it to Exe? What are your town-reads on Exe? Why so persistent on voting Exe? If Exe was executed, who would be your next executioner-of-your-epic-choice?

@SV: Why did you vote for StrungOut, Then Exe, but lastly unvoted? Does it always matter for a smart (scum) person to be the executioner? How does TS 'blatantly buddy' somebody?

@SO: What do you mean by "Exe" is legit? How would not executing anyone help at all? Who do you think is scum?

@TS: Would YOU be hungry for the execution power? Do you think

"possible investigative role recieves an innocent verdict"

is rolefishing?

@UMBRAGE: How do you not see anything scummy with TS? Why are you targeting me but not StrungOver? What are the important aspects for you? Why hesitate to call vezok a scum while s/he blatantly sheeps and buddies with Exe and call it a noob town-thing to do?

@VEZO: Why do you think Exe is a good executioner choice? Why do you not like FF/ANT at all? How is your list resemble towards Exe's list?

@ALL: How would you react if you were given an execution choice? WHO would you execute?

[Umbrage]

@ HC: Once we choose an executioner, it's like a lynch, all talking stops. We have to choose who we want to kill before we vote for our executioner.

I still don't want to vote Exe. He is the worst possible player we could choose to be an executioner because he is the most likely to take matters into his own hands and kill someone other than who we agreed on. Scum or town, he's a liability. I can easily see him being town, killing a townie that we did not agree on, and then getting killed himself.

[mallowgeno]

VC 1.2

Exe (5)-Tragedy, charter, Haschel Cedricson, StrungOver, vezokpiraka
Tragedy (1)-Exe
StrungOver (0)-
Charter (0)-
Final Fires (2)-twistedspoon, Amrun

Not Voting:Ant_to_the_max, Umbrage, CooLDoG, Final Fires, Shattered Viewpoint


With 13 alive, it takes 7 votes to elect an executioner!

D/L, March 9th!

[Tragedy]

I forgot to put a post.

Unvote

.

Time for another long re-read... Might not finish posting since I've got plans as well.

[Exe]

@ HC: Once we choose an executioner, it's like a lynch, all talking stops. We have to choose who we want to kill before we vote for our executioner.

I still don't want to vote Exe. He is the worst possible player we could choose to be an executioner because he is the most likely to take matters into his own hands and kill someone other than who we agreed on. Scum or town, he's a liability. I can easily see him being town, killing a townie that we did not agree on, and then getting killed himself.

NO IT'S NOT.

READ THE FREAKING RULES.

Once the executioner KILLS SOMEONE all talking stops.

God.

[Exe]

Tragedy...why do I feel like it's Frenzy mafia all over again? Are you scum again? Hmm. That post was a whole lot of questions, but really a whole lot of nothing...

I still really feel the TS scum vibe.

Hmmm.

[Umbrage]

@ Tragedy: I read TS as newb town, and he seems to be trying to scumhunt which is more than I can say for some players here. I was pushing you more than SO because I know you're an active contributer to the site, I've seen you in Mish Mash. I knew that if I pushed you, I'd get results. As I see it, the most important things to do is decide who to kill both today and tonight. I generally consider sheeping more of a newb tell than a scum tell.

My execution choices of this minute which are likely to change in the next:

Shattered Viewpoint
charter

[Amrun]

@Exe: I wasn't trying to argue with what you were saying in that post at all. Earlier, you seemed flabbergasted that I suggested that your posts should be clearer. I was merely using that post as an example of why I found some of your earlier posts difficult to understand. I stated clearly that I figured it out with context because it was so short but that doing so is impossible with longer posts. It has nothing to do with what you're actually attempting to say, especially since that is difficult to determine sometimes. That's my whole point.

And I'm a top suspect on your list now?

Wow, if that's not a spite FoS then I don't know what is. Rest assured that I will never let you handle the town kills if I can help it. You're far too influenced by your ego and emotions to be trusted with something like that.

@Umbrage: Actually, you're incorrect.

@Tragedy: I don't understand your question at all, I'm afraid. I'll do my best, though: I see the town motivation for HC's thinking, so I have a townread on him. However, for his idea to work, everyone has to cooperate totally. In the end, I don't think it would play out as nicely as he thinks, so I don't fully support implementing his idea. My townread on FF is because he proposed a lot of solid pro-townie plans. They weren't. Perfect plans, but that's okay. When people pointed out flaws, he adapted and considered the validity of others' points. I thik FF will be likely to kill who we (the town) ask him to kill even if he disagrees with that choice. Exe, on the other hand, is more likely to kill whomever he feels like on a whim. In the beginning, he had solid pro-town plans, so, like with FF, I had a townread on him. Then he revealed his rigidity and ego and I decided he is too untrustworthy to be given a kill, but I have a null read on him for now.

[Exe]

Amrun, I called you fishy from your very first post. Don't act like you just suddenly became a suspect of mine.

[Amrun]

You have misrepesented a couple of things of mine and made one or two points I can consider valid, though they seem to stem from a different philosophy of playing than you have. People have differences in thinking about things that lead to misunderstandings. I recognize that.

However, how am I suddenly your TOP contender? It's obviously influenced by your dislike of me calling you out.

[Exe]

No, you are not my top contender. I am still a big fan of TS scum.

[StrungOver]

If we don't kill any one today it gives our PRs a better idea of who's who.

[Final Fires]

But really people. The amount of people rushing on this wagon is disturbing.

Ant nailed it. It worries me that there was such a frenzy to get a bandwagon so quickly, especially on HC's part. I'm not sure if exe is scum or not (as of now I have a null read on him), but the wagon for him definately did seem scum driven.

@FF: I would like to hear of your suspicions since I am voting for you. It'd be meaningless to vote a player when only who they execute is what matters.

If I got the execution right now, I would kill vezok with it (at the end of the three week period of course). My other top suspicion is HC. HC for rushing exe's bandwagon, and trying to get others to do it. Exe I have a null read on, but it's starting to lean scummy. His strong desire to be executioner, coupled with his attempt at rushing gaining the position of power make me a little uncomfortable. Plus it seems like him and a few others (HC, shattered, and vez especially) are trying to "bully" others into voting him, threatening that if they don't trust him they won't look pro-town. From what I can see, that's how the debate against twisted started; he disagreed with an idea that exe proposed and immediately became a top suspect. This feels like a reoccuring theme throughout this thread too. Disagree with exe, pay the price. It also bothers me that exe already softclaimed vanilla townie without any pressure to do so. Shattered I'm a little suspicious of too, but all the points I have against him have already been mentioned by others. Out of the people I listed, shattered seems the least anti-town.

If I wanted to give my reasons I would have stated them.


I asked that question because I wanted to see a reaction and something else. I won't tell what that something else is.

Fair enough. However, you will stay at the top of my scum list, because you're essentially asking me to trust that your motives are good, which at this point I don't.

Your reads are all so careful. Your top two scum read is the same as everyone else saying that Vezo fished, which frankly I don't see at all. It's been a crap argument since the first time it was made.

Reread where he asks how Twisted knows if there are cops/doctors. How could twisted have responded to that without revealing whether she knows if there are cops/doctors? Either way, it's fishing for an answer that subtly reveals whether he has knowledge of a PR (and therfore likely is one) or doesn't (and therfore likely isn't one). There was absolutely no way that that question could've been answered without twisted revealing something about his role.

Alternately, we could elect charter executioner instead. If he's scum, he's very unlikely to make a slip on the first day, so your scenario won't come up. Would that make you feel better?

Why would you not want scum to make a slip?

@FF: How do you have a town-read on TS when everyone sees that s/he's rolefishing as well? What do you think that you'll gain from killing TS instead of vezok?

Because I fail to see anywhere that he actually rolefished. His post seemed mostly speculation to me. There was no point where he tried to out anyone's role - he just speculated on the setup as a whole. And I don't think we'll gain anything from killing TS over vezok. TS i have more of a null-leaning town read on, but vezok is definately scummy.

[charter]

Ant is trying his darndest to reclaim scumbag numero uno. Totally ignores all my questions for why he thinks my suspicion of TS is bad and what his opinion on TS is.

Ant, I will ask again. What don't you like about my suspicions of TS? Why do you think my suspicions of TS are bandwagony? Why aren't you 'feeling the TS wagon'?

Amrun's post gave some weak and wishy washy reads. Not impressed. His insinuation that five pages of content isn't enough to go on is baloney. Plenty of scums are caught by page five. Don't give scum passes because they got caught early. Getting caught on page two is the same as page 50.

Man, TS is trying his absolute hardest to dig his grave as fast as possible with 122 and calling attention to people not providing content, when it really seems like he isn't either. It's especially bad how he blames everyone because 'no one has mentioned him yet' like it's our fault for ignoring a lurker to go after scum (him). And then TS doesn't ask for his opinions on anything, just leaves it very vague, so I get the impression he doesn't care about SO's opinions, but wants the spotlight off of himself.

Alternately, we could elect charter executioner instead. If he's scum, he's very unlikely to make a slip on the first day, so your scenario won't come up. Would that make you feel better?

I'd also kill scum immediately upon being elected.

And now Umbrage is clawing for scumbag of the year. His list in 142 is wrong. His town reads are all the scummy people and everyone he doesn't list as town looks quite town. His whole premise for this is he thinks TS is newbtown. He doesn't explain this, or explain why he thinks TS's scummy actions aren't coming from scum. No, he just writes him off as newbtown and uses that to form his suspicions of everyone. He also isn't commenting on Ant, and that's not going to look good on him if Ant dies before him and flips scum. Though he did list Ant as his number one kill early on (and lists 'everyone should know why' as his reason, though he's given no reason). Since then, the only mention of Ant is when he inexplicably jumped on to his town list.

@Charter: Explain how haschel / SV looks town... Why do you think Ant should be killed?

Haschel: Meta, his suspicions align with mine, protown theories
SV: He's picking up on the scummy things in the thread, protown theories
Ant: Megascum, posts a lot but says little, he's faking scumhunting

I see TS, Umbrage, and Ant as all scummy independently, and as a whole. I don't have much of a preference for one over another as to who dies first.

[Amrun]

And then Final Fires finally posts who he would kill, and I'm feeling better about my vote. Good.

Question, though... I do agree about the Exe bullying, but I don't think HC was taking a part in it. He was, but in a different way. He just wants anybody to be elected executioner. He doesn't care who. Others on the bullywagon want Exe in particular to be executioner. I think it's a key difference.

Your points still stand, though, and I'm going to ruminate on it a bit more and keep it in mind for future reads.

p-edit:

@charter: I never insinuated that five pages of content isn't enough to go on. I gave a humongous list of reads... How is that nothing?

[Amrun]

Oh, and, how could ending dayphase early like charter just proposed EVER be pro-town?

[Exe]

It also bothers me that exe already softclaimed vanilla townie without any pressure to do so.

Regardless of whether or not it was ACTUALLY a soft-claim, you aren't helping the case by repeating this OVER AND OVER.

@charter: I never insinuated that five pages of content isn't enough to go on. I gave a humongous list of reads... How is that nothing?

5 pages in, oooh, so much content to go off of, right?

Does not compute.

Bullying is not a scumtell either yo. It's how we townies get shit done.

[Final Fires]

Whoops, sorry twisted, didn't mean to use 'she'!

Also, just so you guys know in advance, this is going to be a crazy week for me. I'll try to post as much as I can, but that might only be one or two posts a day. Hopefully once the weekend comes I'll be able to be more active.

If you do an ISO of HC, the bulk of his posts are "Vote Exe for executioner. Now!" That was a little worrying for me. Later on he also suggests that Charter could be executioner. Not gonna lie, it kind of freaks me out that the two people he supports for executioner now are also the two people who supported in the very start - almost like it was planned. Why give a seconday vote on page 2? Or give one at all? Charter hasn't posted much, and when he does I get a null read for it. It just seems like from the very start his play has been calculated around getting one of those two elected as executioner. His most recent post suggests that he doesn't care who is executioner, but his play suggests he does. If that was his strategy, why didn't he come out and say it immediately, rather than waiting until later? Plus that "I don't really care who is executioner" explanation seems like a cop out to me - that way he can't be held responsible if the executioner does turn out to be scum.

[Shattered Viewpoint]

Exe makes a slip and outs himself as obvscum?

Does this mean you suspect Exe more now?

First off, DO NOT quote me out of context. Secondly, if you'd kindly READ THE ENTIRE QUOTE, you'll see that I was speaking hypothetically.

No, I don't suspect Exe more now, I just wanted to think about what might happen if we elected an executioner too early.

@SV: Why did you vote for StrungOut, Then Exe, but lastly unvoted? Does it always matter for a smart (scum) person to be the executioner? How does TS 'blatantly buddy' somebody?

@ALL: How would you react if you were given an execution choice? WHO would you execute?

1) My StrungOut vote was essentially RVS-vote. I unvoted Exe because I didn't want the danger of electing an executioner too soon. It doesn't matter whether the executioner is 'intelligent' or not; I personally feel it matters if they have Town interests at heart. I'm not sure I accused anyone of "blatant buddying."

2) I would execute whoever Town agreed on.

[Amrun]

Exe: Weren't you one saying context is important? Guess what? It is. What I was actually saying, in context, was that I had plenty of reads but that you saying I didn't have enough reads was bullshit -- which it still is. You were saying I didn't have enough townie reads. I had several townie reads already noted, and specifically said I didn't include slight town reads because there wasn't much to say on them at this point. For five pages of game play, I think my reads were more than adequate.

[Umbrage]

Regarding Exe, I'm reminded of my second game on this site. There was a guy who was playing a lot like Exe, arrogant, rude, aggressive. I led a bandwagon on him and he flipped scum. I maintained then, and I maintain now that aggressiveness, bullying, tunneling, whatever you want to call it, it's anti-town. It is hard to get a good read on an aggressive player.

I still don't like how SV is hesitant to give scum reads. I also see charter as increasing in scumminess, he pushes wagons while staying in the background. His last post has few logical arguments, it's all "this player is scummy" and "this post is really bad" but he doesn't say why.

Haschel is a big blank for me. I really can't say whether his Exe-worship is scummy or not, on the one hand I can understand why he wants an executioner chosen quickly, on the other hand he's done almost nothing besides pushing for that.

Amrun and Final Fires are the most pro-town players here. Anyone who says Twistedspoon hasn't done anything isn't reading his posts. He's making content, he's not winning any MVPs but he's making content. The main difference between newb town and newb scum, in my experience, is that when newb scum come under pressure, they crack. Badly. I'm not getting that vibe from Twisty. He seems to be doing his best. Please compare him with vezok, and tell me which is the better kill. I'm not saying I want a vezok kill, I'm saying that he's a better kill than Twisty.

[charter]

@charter: I never insinuated that five pages of content isn't enough to go on. I gave a humongous list of reads... How is that nothing?

Ok, going back and rereading it in the context of the rest of your post, I agree. I saw someone else quoted it and I thought it was odd without the context. However, the main point of my point was not to let people off the hook because it's page X.

Oh, and, how could ending dayphase early like charter just proposed EVER be pro-town?

By killing scum before they can weasel their way out of it. You clearly haven't been beat by scum caught on page three and then weaseling out of it.

If you do an ISO of HC, the bulk of his posts are "Vote Exe for executioner. Now!" That was a little worrying for me. Later on he also suggests that Charter could be executioner. Not gonna lie, it kind of freaks me out that the two people he supports for executioner now are also the two people who supported in the very start - almost like it was planned. Why give a seconday vote on page 2? Or give one at all? Charter hasn't posted much, and when he does I get a null read for it. It just seems like from the very start his play has been calculated around getting one of those two elected as executioner. His most recent post suggests that he doesn't care who is executioner, but his play suggests he does. If that was his strategy, why didn't he come out and say it immediately, rather than waiting until later? Plus that "I don't really care who is executioner" explanation seems like a cop out to me - that way he can't be held responsible if the executioner does turn out to be scum.

It's probably more because me and Haschel are awesome. I haven't played with Exe before, but he seems pretty awesome too. There is nothing worse in mafia than days that drag on. Today is going to drag on. I can tell it already. We have the double duty of spending forever electing someone before we kill someone. It's going to take twice as long and leave twice the amount of muck to sift through on later days.

Not sure where you're getting 'Charter doesn't care who is elected' since I haven't said that. I've actually said just the opposite, that we should elect Exe since he will kill TS.

I also see charter as increasing in scumminess, he pushes wagons while staying in the background. His last post has few logical arguments, it's all "this player is scummy" and "this post is really bad" but he doesn't say why.

I'm not sure how I can be more vocal about who I support killing. Most of my posts contain me naming someone I think should be killed. How can I get more in the foreground? I can only post a few hours a day, so don't say post more. If you wish for me to elaborate on my reads, please ask and I will do so. Just because I didn't provide a laundry list of poor wikitells, doesn't mean my suspicions aren't valid.

I'm going to continue to disagree with your TS read. He's had virtually no pressure, since no one can vote for him. Aside from that, basing just about all your other reads off a newbtown read on someone just doesn't make sense.

[Amrun]

@charter: Okay. That's why quoting people out of context is bad.

Also, you're right that I have never been beat that way (yet), but how can you not see how that looks with this set up?

In the hypothetical situation where we elect you as executioner and you kill someone immediately, town gets NO TIME to discuss night kill and night executioner. That puts town at a HUGE disadvantage and you suggesting it does not is a scumtell for me even when you inevitably say you didn't realize it would mean that in your next post.

Also, Exe has not committed to kill TS. Even though he claims TS is his highest scum suspect, he says a kill between me and TS is a tossup -- basically because he's mad that I won't vote for him as executioner.