Cold War Mafia - GAME OVER!!


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Post Post #750 (ISO) » Mon Feb 14, 2011 11:09 am

Post by DavidParker »

smargaret wrote:DP, how on earth is making a factual statement about the setup and stating an opinion about a player misrepping?
YOUR STATEMENT IMPLIED THAT AMRUN HAD STATED SUCH A STATEMENT. BASICALLY YOU MAKE A STATEMENT ABOUT GAME SETUP. THEN YOU MAKE A SETUP SAYING A PLAYER IS LYING SCUM (IE: IMPLYING ITS BECAUSE OF THE SETUP SPECULATION). IF THAT WANST YOUR INTENT, WELL THE WAY YOU POSTED WAS VERY POOR AND SEEMS TO BE TRYING TO PUT AMRUN IN BAD LIGHT. HE HAS NOT STATED HE BELIEVES THE GAME TO BE US VS SOVIET. HE HAS JUST STATED WHY HIS ROLE PM DOESN'T INDICATE AGAINST THE POSSIBILITY.

PREVIEW EDIT: I think smarge is claiming the two statements are entirely unrelated. Even so, it's bad posting. Yeah anyone would assume they are related.
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Post Post #751 (ISO) » Mon Feb 14, 2011 11:13 am

Post by smargaret »

a. I know my statement is factual, as does the mod and presumably Fuzzyman.
b. The two were, in fact, unrelated. You are lying scum because of your claim. And while you may not have said it was definitely Soviet v US, your predecessor certainly tried to push it.
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Post Post #752 (ISO) » Mon Feb 14, 2011 11:15 am

Post by DavidParker »

Well yeah, the core reasoning to my vote on Amrun is because of PI's slip.
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Post Post #753 (ISO) » Mon Feb 14, 2011 11:18 am

Post by Amrun »

a. How do we know Fuzzyman isn't lying or third party? We don't. Are you softclaiming a third nationality?

b. The only reason I speculated on the set up at all is because of my predecessor's actions. Given the role PM she got (since I got it too), it is not too strange that she might think it was US vs. Soviet. McCarthy as town makes it seem this way. Of course, the wincon does NOT, but there are two conflicting pieces of information there. As I've stated before, PI's play is not how I would have played it, but in a lot of ways, her previous play forced my hand. I have to play according to what she did because replacing in is not, in fact, being given a clean slate.
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Post Post #754 (ISO) » Mon Feb 14, 2011 11:34 am

Post by Scott Brosius »

LynchMePls wrote:No way a scum is that careless with a fake claim. NO WAY.
The too scummy to be scum argument never flies with me. Especially when it's a replacement in an already scummy slot.

McCarthy really doesn't make sense as a character that would be looking to eliminate threats to peace.

Unvote
Vote: Amrun
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Post Post #755 (ISO) » Mon Feb 14, 2011 11:35 am

Post by Sotty7 »

Day I, Vote Count XVII


Amrun - 10 -
XScorpion, Beasts of the Sea, Stephoscope, bvoigt, RedCoyote, ThAdmiral, smargaret, mothrax, DavidParker, Scott Brosius,
ThAdmiral - 7 -
Nachomamma8, EGL, LynchMePls, LlamaFluff, GhostWriter, Amrun, Feysal
mothrax - 4 -
Lowell, Artem, InflatablePie, gonnano
Artem - 1 -
Furcolow

Not Voting - 2 -
Fuzzyman, Sathoris

With twenty-four of you alive thirteen votes will lynch. The day will end on Sunday February 20th at 9am GMT.

Fuzzyman is being replaced

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Post Post #756 (ISO) » Mon Feb 14, 2011 12:05 pm

Post by Feysal »

This seems to be getting out of hand. I'm writing a longer post in defense of Amrun, and to give a sneak preview, the gist of it is that
she is town
. PoisonIvy stumbled, now Amrun stumbled with her claim, and this has become a mislynch waiting to happen. I would stake my reputation on that, I am that convinced.
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Post Post #757 (ISO) » Mon Feb 14, 2011 12:15 pm

Post by Amrun »

@Scott: I don't know if this is what LMP meant, but when I read that post, I thought he meant that scum wouldn't fakeclaim McCarthy. It would be a terrible fakeclaim, and has nothing to do with the player, but instead the original mod (CallMeLiam) and his decision. I know that CML wouldn't give such a bad fakeclaim, but that's up to everyone else to decide. I don't have anything else to say on this matter.

@Feysal: I do appreciate the support, but I don't know what good it will do at this point.

I felt the stirrings and saw that a lynch was well and truly headed my way. PI's play was bad and my play was far from perfect. I was not doing a great job of redeeming the slot. I might have been okay if people weren't already looking at the slot with extra-critical eyes, but I'm not so great at deflecting pressure yet. (This game has taught me a lot, so that's good, I guess.)

I just didn't want to go down wondering, "If I had claimed, would it have made a difference?"
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Post Post #758 (ISO) » Mon Feb 14, 2011 12:24 pm

Post by Scott Brosius »

Scum have fakeclaims? Good to know.
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Post Post #759 (ISO) » Mon Feb 14, 2011 12:29 pm

Post by Amrun »

I don't know if scum have fakeclaims, but it's pretty standard for scum to have fakeclaims on this site. That's what regulars told me on scumchat, at least. I suggested a game without fakeclaims and it was like I committed sacrilege...
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Post Post #760 (ISO) » Mon Feb 14, 2011 12:31 pm

Post by Lowell »

unvote, vote amrun
. Wait long enough and this game gets easy.

Everything about amrun's behavior reeks of scum trying to sniff out a possible town PM. Badly.
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Post Post #761 (ISO) » Mon Feb 14, 2011 12:34 pm

Post by Amrun »

Mind elaborating some more, lurker, I mean, Lowell?
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Post Post #762 (ISO) » Mon Feb 14, 2011 1:11 pm

Post by Feysal »

Amrun has claimed Senator Joseph McCarthy, US nationality, town silencer. I believe her. I am so convinced in fact that I will try to defend her, so we might actually lynch scum today.

I've already covered PoisonIvy/Amrun earlier in my post #560. What I said then I believe still. PoisonIvy stumbled badly with her setup speculation, but her reaction to being wagoned was a major towntell. She took the effort to post her reads, such as they were, and prepared to die. This is the reaction of a townie who does not believe she can avert her mislynch. Also, the way she was completely unguarded when answering the setup question reads as town to me, though this is less strong. I believe scum would've been more reserved.

I can understand perfectly how PoisonIvy arrived to the conclusion that the setup was US versus Soviets. She referred to another Cold War game on LiveWire, which I found here. McCarthy was a very prominent role in that game, a confirmed innocent doublevoter, and I can see PoisonIvy being reminded of that game by her role here. That game also contained a miller, which she expected this game to have. The setup of that game was US versus Soviets, and since PoisonIvy did not know any better, she thought that could be the setup here as well. Think about it: she was armed only with knowledge of her own role. She knew she was US and town. She could not have known that the town consisted of other nationalities as well, and her simple setup theory was entirely plausible in light of what she knew. On the other hand, I'm positive that the scum would know more about the setup, and her theory only makes sense to me if she was part of the uninformed majority. Scum would have known better.

Amrun made a mess of her claim, but throughout that ordeal she reads as town to me. It is obvious she made a mistake confusing MacArthur and McCarthy, but I don't find that mistake scummy. Her clumsy way of defending herself reads as inexperienced town to me, not at all like flailing scum.
Amrun #714 wrote:My win-con is "you win when all the threats to the peace are dead" or something along those lines. This is what makes me doubt Soviet vs. US despite my role. I think most likely is town (US), Soviet (mafia), other nationalities (third party), since Fuzzyman's slot claimed another nationality. Still, this is not for sure. Why hasn't Fuzzyman's slot received more pressure for this scummy statement? I just don't get it. I tried to put more pressure on and somehow got portrayed as scum for doing so.
If it was not obvious yet from the comments in the thread, there are several non-US townies in this game. That is why Fuzzyman's statement could be true, and him having another nationality is not suspicious. The non-US townies also know perfectly well that the setup is not US versus Soviets, because their own roles don't fit into that theory.
Amrun #757 wrote:@Feysal: I do appreciate the support, but I don't know what good it will do at this point.
Neither do I, but I've got to try. I don't stand by and let my townreads be lynched, not when they are this strong.

@Everyone on the Amrun wagon: Please consider what I wrote above. Where you see scummy behavior, I see a newbie townie who has slipped and become mislynch material. I am convinced she is town. I am not convinced that ThAdmiral is scum, but I consider him the most likely scum of our three wagons. mothrax I have a null read on.

And if you are not satisfied with either of those wagons over Amrun, there is always Furcolow. His latest vote on Artem for being too town clearly shows that he cannot be trusted.
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Post Post #763 (ISO) » Mon Feb 14, 2011 1:14 pm

Post by Amrun »

Oh, was that Furcolow who said the "too town" thing? Then, my apologies to DavidParker.
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Post Post #764 (ISO) » Mon Feb 14, 2011 1:20 pm

Post by Amrun »

Also, just heard back from mod.

There will be no public announcement about the silencing, but it will be obvious in the vote counts.

If I live (looking increasingly unlikely), I will announce my silencing target in twilight.
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Post Post #765 (ISO) » Mon Feb 14, 2011 1:48 pm

Post by gonnano »

Okay. Jmj is officially no longer the better lynch.

I believe that Amrun's role is Joseph McCarthy, and I believe that the role ability given is accurate as well (why claim it if you won't be able to prove it?). I also think that she's scum.

There's a very very very good chance that we are looking at a game that is NOT US v. Soviets
Reasons:
*the "threat to the peace" wincon for town
*the fact that the mod separated nationality and alignment when he described the setup
*the fact that the given "possible" (key term there) mafia wincon refers to nationality rather than alignment, which would be an indirect way of stating things if nationality = alignment

Now, I'm not a Cold War historian, but even I know that McCarthy is THE single most infamous bad guy on the american side of things.

The only way that I would even consider a claimed McCarthy role being town is if I knew beyond a doubt that all US characters are town. Which is not even close to being the case here.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Amrun

One vote to lynch. Someone lay down the hammer.
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Post Post #766 (ISO) » Mon Feb 14, 2011 1:52 pm

Post by Amrun »

Okay, gonnano. Obviously I know that McCarthy was a notorious bad guy. So, then, why would I claim him as town if I'm NOT town?

What benefit would that have for me?
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Post Post #767 (ISO) » Mon Feb 14, 2011 1:54 pm

Post by Amrun »

Not even considering the idea that I'm town after a full claim = scum.

Lowell's post = even scummier. Lurker trying to get in before the hammer and not offering ANY new information.

I'm posting these things to be noted after I flip.

Also, ThAd hasn't commented at all on this... Seems fishy.
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Post Post #768 (ISO) » Mon Feb 14, 2011 1:56 pm

Post by Nachomamma8 »

IF YOU WOULD STOP THE WIFOM FOR ONE SECOND IT WOULD MAKE ME VERY HAPPY.
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Post Post #769 (ISO) » Mon Feb 14, 2011 2:24 pm

Post by ThAdmiral »

I have things to say but I'm on phone and it's very tricky to post at length. Will be able to get on this afternoon.
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Post Post #770 (ISO) » Mon Feb 14, 2011 2:32 pm

Post by LlamaFluff »

762 by Feysal is just about the greatest post in the game so far and reitterates why Amrum is town.

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Post Post #771 (ISO) » Mon Feb 14, 2011 2:33 pm

Post by Amrun »

[quote="Nachomamma8"]IF YOU WOULD STOP THE WIFOM FOR ONE SECOND IT WOULD MAKE ME VERY HAPPY.[/quote

If you would stop the caps for one second it would make me happy.

I'm not trying to WIFOM anyone. In fact, I've been very straight forward.

I fully roleclaimed. People are still voting for me, so I'm asking a basic question: what are the possible scum motivations for doing as I have done?

There aren't any, so people haven't posted any and claim WIFOM instead because they're scum or the question is too hard, I guess... I can't think of any other reason.
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Post Post #772 (ISO) » Mon Feb 14, 2011 2:34 pm

Post by Amrun »

Sorry about the quote tag. Not sure how that happened.
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Post Post #773 (ISO) » Mon Feb 14, 2011 2:38 pm

Post by bvoigt »

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Amrun
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Post Post #774 (ISO) » Mon Feb 14, 2011 2:42 pm

Post by Amrun »

Wow, bvoigt, you're going to hammer me with ABSOLUTELY NO CONTENT?
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