Blackest Night Mafia (GAME OVER!)

[Fate]

3 Month Avatar Bet

– If I die or due to janitoring am revealed in Post Game as Red, Yellow, or Orange Scum (yeah, I threw in Red for you as a freebie) you can choose any site valid avatar and I will use it on this account for three months.

If I die or due to janitoring am revealed anything else Post Game and I get to choose the site valid avatar you use on the Fate account for three months.

Willing to put your Avatar where your mouth is and show you really aren’t just a blow-hard who doesn’t truly believe they are as good as they posture?

I am. I’ve never lost one of these bets. Usually people aren’t willing to take them (Spyrex, remember that in Victorian Vampire Mafia?) or back out like Furc-VI in Reaper’s BandB Mafia (remember that Kast?).

--

Kats was scummy yesterday and that's good evidence, there were only three deaths though. Kats should claim.

To further develop that line of thinking, based on my ‘Vi killed by Yellow’ thoughts above, that if Kats is scum who caused Reck to die via Mason mis-fire then the Red kill is probably missing.

Either that or Red just outright killed Reck since he nailed two of their members on his scumlist and the Masonize death either didn’t occur or was covered up.

@MODS – Would overkill (two kill sources on one player) show in the flavor?

--

I breadcrumbed it I'm a hider and I have no idea why I'm not dead yet.

Where did you breadcrumb?

Your claim stinks pretty badly. John Stewart as a Hider? And that you must have been blocked since you didn’t die behind Vi? That sounds like you are making that up to cover Spyrex’s unrevealed role-information to me.

It must have been because I was roleblocked or

Vi was janitored.

Emphasis added. Janitoring has nothing to do with this. Vi died. You hid behind him. Thus regardless of whether he was janitored you should be worm food. The question is -- were you role-blocked? I honestly don't want anyone pipping up to say so since they are likely a Town PR given how scummy you were yesterday.

VOTE: NoPoint

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Examining nightkills is WIFOM and all...are we really to believe Reck's list was totally accurate just because he hit two (and he definitely deserves credit for that) and was then killed?

So let’s ignore the list that is so far 2/2 just because he died and pray throwing buzzwords (WIFOM) at it will help the argument? Yeah, I sense that you have some sort of vested interest in not having Town dig too deeply into that list.

Sorry, I'm just a nobody with no powers.

Didn’t you attack Fate (as I quoted below) for outing his ‘role’ under no pressure? Cognitive Dissonance? Check.

I'm not scum. What is your case on me? And why the hell would you advertise you have investigative powers?

Look, we have Gud part two!

Steph is clearly scum. Moving on …

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Janitors were probably the way to help expand Mass Color Claim scum help btw. Both teams having a Janitor gave the teams extra claim power. I'm thinking a mass color claim on Day 1 would not have been as bad as people made it seem.

Um whut????

1. The main objection to mass-claiming was the unknowns (now confirmed by Dana-MOD) about actual player distribution.
2. You suggest that multiple Janitors were a way for scum to help defeat Mass-claims and thus make Scum even less detectable by that technique.
3. You suggest that things would not be as bad as suggested because Scum have clear counter-measures to the mass claim? Wouldn't that make things at least as bad as suggested yesterday?

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We can almost put this game on cruise-control. the scumz are just throwing themselves at us.

Just like Gud did and you repeatedly suggested you didn’t see? Just checking.

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Ohhh Steph.

Its probably not a good idea to up and claim scum and all.

Why would you bother to tell scum to not claim so? Why? Why?

Fate I'm seriously you will break my heart if you're gambiting.

Coming off LOTR this makes me chuckle ….

--

Agree that Stepho probably needs to

get active

/get killed/

investigated soon

.

FTFY

But I have this sneaking suspicious Vi was the SK. Just gut.

Then are you disputing Kats’ watch on you? Because Vi visited you per Kats and you didn’t end up all smushed by Orange Power. Add in that Dram likely could only have been the Orange kill (or a Vig kill with some deaths missing) and I’m not leaning towards Vi = Larfleeze.

"Anything else" and "yellow red and oj" in particular gave it away.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Yep, I carefully crafted the wording there. No-one bothered to re-read in the hustle and bustle of lynching scum.

[xvart]

- Yellow did much better than red, but were screwed by the color claims. We should have given them better ones. Really, the only solution to this is to have changed the setup so that some colors had more than others. Announcing 2PR/2VT at the beginning REALLY screwed them over, even if it didn't end up being true. 4 people per faction DID screw them over. That is just a lesson you will have to learn about theme games. Tell the players as little as possible until as late as possible. Setting any kind of preconception in their mind (early on in the game, in sign-up phase, or otherwise) will entirely dictate the way they play the game. Which is why yellow was screwed by their fake claims. Learn a lesson from it, move on. Next game will be better.

This is what I was going to say earlier but I felt like I really got boned by the 4 color setup comments, whether or not they were true or not. My fake claim was green and with three greens already flipped all it would have taken was the last green to counter claim the last green. Especially since the 2PR/2VT was still floating around somewhat.

Mods:

regarding kdub and his role, if he had targeted a VT would anything have happened?

I had a lot of fun playing this game but I felt that my lynch was a lot of circumstantial nonsense. The whole thing about my claiming a VT like role I felt was fine, and if I had more time I think I would have pushed the whole red immune operative, since operatives were VTs.

For future play, what should I have done with kdubs soft claim on me? Should I have demanded more information since the burden of proof was on him? I didn't want to out a PR as I thought that was the town thing to do but it really left me no wiggle room.

And, for reference, I did go to dana and RC and ask if they could give me another fake claim and it was suggested that I could use one of my other buddies claims but at that point I didn't feel right about doing so since it hadn't been discussed in our scum QT.

[MagnaofIllusion]

For future play, what should I have done with kdubs soft claim on me? Should I have demanded more information since the burden of proof was on him? I didn't want to out a PR as I thought that was the town thing to do but it really left me no wiggle room.

I'd say demanding more information is a requirement in your situation. From a Town perspective you can't sit on your hands and say "Well, I don't want to out a Power Role so I'm not going to challenge the incorrect claim of me being scum". And as scum if you are going down with the ship you owe it to your team to get as much information as possible out of the player for your Teammates.

Take a look at Day 1 of Kdub's Mini Theme Seinfeld Mafia. Maccavitylock claimed unspecified Meta evidence on me (I was a Town PR) and pressed that and only that as a reason to wagon me. I repeatedly requested he provide the Meta if he was going to attack me on 'Invisible evidence' grounds. As it turns out Mac was also Town who spotted my breadcrumb and was incorrectly trying to force a Day 1 PR claim because he thought I might be a Serial Killer based on my character.

I think had I not repeatedly challenged his assertion and called it out as baseless it probably would have been easy for the scum to go ahead and hop on the bad lynch. Not that it mattered because scum rolled us big-time since Town collectively played like our heads were wedged firmly up our backsides.

[Kdub]

There was nothing you could have done xvart, my ability was unblockable and could not be redirected, so anything you could have suggested that would have interfered with my result would have been shot down. The best you could have done is to try to force me to reveal my role to help out your scum team with planning for how to deal with me, but you still would have been lynched. It's got nothing to do with your play, you just happened to get caught by an infallible investigation result.

Also, if I targeted a VT, they would have received a vig shot as well. That's what happened on N3 when I targeted Jack.

[ReaperCharlie]

I can still be amiable towards you, RC, but you took a personal dig at me that was uncalled for. You have to understand my stance on this.

Of course I understand. And I am still ='[

[Katsuki]

I can still be amiable towards you, RC, but you took a personal dig at me that was uncalled for. You have to understand my stance on this.

KATS Y U HAFTA BE SCUM
I WANTED STARBUCK/KATSUKI/FATE/RECK

I would've recruited Fate, but I didn't think Starbuck would go for that

All in all I'm pretty satisfied with my play:

Nailed four red scum and the SK, and caught yellow scum in my death.

A LITTLE PISSED STARBUCK DIDN'T POST MY AWESOME POST-MORTEM LETTER I TOLD HER TO POST IF I DIE

I KNOW I CRIED WHEN YOU FLIPPED CULT RECRUITER.
THAT SCUM ROLE PM BROKE MY HEART WHEN I SAW YOU AND FATE.

I HOPE THIS WON'T AFFECT OUR FUTURE RELATIONS THOUGH
anticaps-ing with you and fate was the most fun ive had in the longest time.

[Starbuck]

Kats, I totally adopt you into the cabal of me, Kise, dram and Reck. We could use another chick.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Mutliple 2011 Scummy Nominiations have been made in the 2010 thread based on this game.

FYI.

[Dekes]

Andy, can I get some love for rescuing you N3? NPIAU would've shredded you to pieces if it weren't for my heroics. Props to SpyreX who(m?) I originally wanted to protect but he said he didn't want any town roles to target him thus selflessly sacrificing his own life so that Andy can live <3

I liked how both scumMoI and scumKast had to lie about what happend to them on N4. MoI had to claim a killing attempt on Kast with a vig shot he never received and Kast had to claim a redirection on a killing attempt that never occured. Classic.

[MagnaofIllusion]

I liked how both scumMoI and scumKast had to lie about what happend to them on N4. MoI had to claim a killing attempt on Kast with a vig shot he never received and Kast had to claim a redirection on a killing attempt that never occured. Classic.

I didn't have to lie about that. From my QT conversation with Kdub I knew that he had targeted me and no-one else so I used the chance to incriminate Kast and gain some Blue Lantern driven Town cred.

Interestingly you can see that Kast's lie that Day confirmed to us that he was Sinestro if you read along in the Black Lantern QT.

[Katsuki]

Kats, I totally adopt you into the cabal of me, Kise, dram and Reck. We could use another chick.

I hope that you won't mind me being a trap. ^.^

EBWOP: I totally meant reck being mason not cult recruiter lol

[Dekes]

I didn't have to lie about that. From my QT conversation with Kdub I knew that he had targeted me and no-one else so I used the chance to incriminate Kast and gain some Blue Lantern driven Town cred.

Sure you had to lie. Kast claimed his redirected "kill" to KK first so you had to claim you received the gun and tried to kill him. That Kdub would back up the story is a no-brainer. Doesn't change the fact that you had to lie about the kill. Just thought it was amusing

Interestingly you can see that Kast's lie that Day confirmed to us that he was Sinestro if you read along in the Black Lantern QT.

I read through all the QTs. Very impressive to see your thought process throughout the game, a lot of times you were spot on. And nice additions by Toog, KK, Kdub. That I was in the recruiting pool for some time actually honours me but I really would've preferred to win with the town anyway. But then again, I guess most people feel that way.

The yellow QT was an interesting read as well. After LotR it's becoming more and more apparent that Katsuki is a much better player through QTs than what is seen in game. If Kats played a little less anoying and more like what I've seen in these QTs I think Kats wouldn't be seen as scummy and bad as much.

The red QT was just sad. Especially with the flaking of SensFan/replacements for several nights.

The dead QT was a train wreck after the revelation of the cult mechanic.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Sure you had to lie. Kast claimed his redirected "kill" to KK first so you had to claim you received the gun and tried to kill him. That Kdub would back up the story is a no-brainer. Doesn't change the fact that you had to lie about the kill. Just thought it was amusing

Not correct. I certainly could have simply let Kdub come on and claim to have sent it to Kast and had it fail.

Also your timing is off. After Day opened I posted my claim to shooting Kast at 1959. Kast's first post that Day was at 1989. So I made my claim first and couldn't have been 'forced to lie' based on his claim.

[Dekes]

You are certainly right there. Further proof how this game is already slipping my memory.

[danakillsu]

OP is updated with RC's help. Still don't have time for the roles, might get 'em up tonight. I'm gonna call an end to the xReck-dram-RC discussion. What needs to be said has been said. My personal opinion: nobody was outside of their bounds in what they were talking about, only the way that they said it. I'll admit that I had a slight inkling that maybe something wasn't quite right there, but when xReck swore there was no cheating, that was good enough for me. But he HAD been previously causing some problems related to Caps Locks, so I understand RC's position as well. Ultimately, it's a game, so I don't think there's any reason to get to angry about it.
My final say on the color collation: I was simply looking at it slightly wrong. I figured if the town couldn't prove anything about the color collation, they wouldn't try to use it as evidence. I didn't realize that they would assume it was still true and therefore get close to the truth. In other words, they were incidentally correct, which I could have anticipated, but didn't. You live and learn, and I won't be making that mistake again.

[danakillsu]

My final say on the "RC helping scum teams":
It didn't happen. Nothing he said could have helped them in ways they didn't deserve to be helped. Fakeclaims were an iffy thing in this setup and we had to make sure scum had good ones. If you have a problem with that, you don't understand mafia. If we were trying to cheat for the scumteams, we could have done a heckuva lot better than that.

[danakillsu]

And this might sound strange, but don't nominate me for a scummy for this game, even if you want to, which doesn't seem too likely. As much time and effort as I put into this game, it wasn't exactly a gem, and I'm hoping the next game will be more worthy.

[Andrius]

Dana, regarding your earlier offer (regarding a potential Andy uPick): how well versed are you in Greek Mythology?

[Andrius]

And you forgot toog as a winner in the OP.

[danakillsu]

I'll edit that. I am quite well versed in Greek Mythology. Perseus, Ariadne, Odysseus, Penelope, Hercules, Achilles, Zeus, Athena, Hera, Poseidon, Aphrodite, Apollo, Eros, Artemis, Bacchus, Pegasus. I could tell you a good deal about any of them.

[Andrius]

Wooooooooooowwwww

Love how aGM instantly wrote me off in the yellow qt

<\3

[Andrius]

EBWOP: ok cool because I totally spent the last two hours of class working on a prospective large.

[tanstalas]

Every faction in there was like "DUDE! MY FACTION HAS NO CHANCE TO WIN!" except tanstalas. lmao

I'm still kinda sad that I didn't have any SK ability's (aside from the killing thing) I think I should have had MoI's bulletproofiness (not that it would have saved me in the end...) - ...might be a little biased >.>

I was right on tans scum though. And reck found the entire red team. (I agreed with his reads completely, wish my team picked up on it).

You always call me scum in EVERY game we are in together, law of averages, you are bound to get one right >.>

By the way, I just want to point out that I called all of red scum plus tans-SK on D1.

I don't think you called me SK? I think you called me scum, but in a later post my name was dropped, you were like a bunch of people, a bunch of people + tans then a bunch of people sans tans I may be wrong, too lazy to go re-read

I'd like the record to show I sent in two Town colors (Green and Blue) wanting to bask in Town glory.

I told you guys I sent in the same colors I always sprinkle my lies with the truth

[Kublai Khan]

Woo! (cult-recruited) Victory!

@the mods: I think the game was balanced for everyone except the cult which was a little too powerful. I know I'm just re-hashing arguments, but I figure that constructive criticism is always helpful. Reducing or eliminating the BP-ness and increasing the # of unrecruitables would have helped. Additionally you could have given some townies some hints as to it's existence (beyond, of course, the entire theme).

That said.. While it was balanced, it was super swingy. Still, got an exciting endgame so it's all good. And big thanks to both of you for modding and putting up with our constant requests and nags to update the OP.

Fate <gunsmith checks> Kublai Khan - FINDS NO GUNZ ON KUBLAI KHAN. JUST A SWORD.

Sword?

And.. Arrgh.. Fate did clear me!? Why;d he take it back?

@everyone else: I had a blast playing with everyone here! Great group of players and I appreciate (almost) nobody replacing out. Big MVP props to Magna, to Andrius, & to Kast who had some shit luck but played really well.