Blackest Night Mafia (GAME OVER!)

[danakillsu]

Oh, and @Red being weak
Their Janitor WAS bulletproof. Don't forget that part. And bomb's pretty awesome, if you ask me. Their Framer could also affect people's flips as he did in (I think) Vi's case.

[tanstalas]

What? Janitor was bulletproof too?

*grumbles*

[xvart]

I'd say demanding more information is a requirement in your situation. From a Town perspective you can't sit on your hands and say "Well, I don't want to out a Power Role so I'm not going to challenge the incorrect claim of me being scum". And as scum if you are going down with the ship you owe it to your team to get as much information as possible out of the player for your Teammates.

Thanks. I thought about that but all I could see as the response is "LOLZ FLAIL MOAR SCUM".

Also, I'm curious to hear what people thought about me claiming scum at that point in the game. My ninja ability was not just for me but any killing action my team did. I never submitted a single action so when I claimed but my main focus was that I was really trying to get another un-traceable, un-protect-able kill for my team. I wished I could have gotten back in time before I was put to L-1 to have a little more wiggle room.

[Papa Zito]

Sure the vote was quick

It had to be.

I was hoping for a black recruiter flip, town win. But in the back of my mind I was also hoping for the possibility of a no-lynch-recruit cycle if I was wrong. You'd already picked Stove as your top candidate, so.

I do, profusely, apologize to the town for fucking up at the end though. So much so that I'm even splitting my infinitives.


@Mods:

[ReaperCharlie]

Hey wait a second... Magna forgot to nominate himself for best Third-Party performance this game...

*runs off to the Scummies thread*

P-edit:

Lulz. Nice pic.

But that assumes that killing scum was the only thing necessary for a town win.

<-- and look how ridiculous that sounds, too.

But it's true.

[Vi]

And this is really why we made MoI bulletproof. Who wants Black Dead N1?

...

- It's quite hard for town to win this game. They have to do extremely well overall to pull this off.
- It's very hard for Red and Yellow to win this game. Mostly due to color-claiming.
- It's swingy for Orange to win this game. He had a good chance and did well, but it didn't work out.
- It could have been much easier for Black to dominate this game, they just had some bad luck.

One of these things is NOT like the others.

It's just failure to blackhunt on everyone else's part that is making it so easy for them to win.

No.

First thing. If you want someone to potentially die, you don't make them bulletproof. The idea that scum and Town will agree to set aside their differences and hunt for Black is a silly fantasy, one that would only possibly occur when all the scum are already screwed over.

Second, Fate or Katsuki or whoever nailed it in saying that Town just wants to lynch obvious scum. Unless there is some explicit gain in lynching one scum over another, any scum will do, just because it's so hard to lynch scum in the first place.

Third, allow me to put this into perspective.
Offsite, I played in a so-called "bastard mod" game. We lynched scum the first Day. We lynched the mod-as-player SK Day 2. We lynched scum the third Day. There was no kill N4, and we were informed that we were in conditional LyLo. At great length we eventually lynched someone who was not technically scum, but if left alive could choose to convert to scum that Night with their Mason partner, endgaming the Town. Town won, but because a single mislynch would have caused Town to lose, the game was judged to be so poorly designed that that mod will have to wait a very, very long time to try again.

Now consider this game, where Town lynched scum every Day

and still lost

. AND had massclaim issues. AND (while it didn't have a mod-as-player) easily vaulted into having more scum than the Town could ever lynch. AND had mutable alignments. AND was heavily influenced by the Night game ("Town did horrible in the Night game"? Town can't work together in the Night game!) making every Day after one a matter of "which obvscum do we lynch".

And what really takes this from "very, very failed experiment" to "inexcusable" is that you two are trying to pull this off like you're blameless. The closest thing to an apology or acknowledgment that the game might have been unbalanced was dku's "This is the first time I've run a five-faction game and I think it went well, didn't you?". I even pointed out a better version of the Cult that would have worked with this kind of game, but NOPE, what went on ITT was exactly what you wanted.

I'm not going to go away mad after this, but I

am

going away.

*Advice Dog pic*

I'm glad someone's keeping that meme alive.

But that assumes that killing scum was the only thing necessary for a town win. <-- and look how ridiculous that sounds, too.

. . .

[ReaperCharlie]

1. When there are 10 scum in a 25-player game, lynching scum is significantly easier than in a 3-3-18 setup. Especially given the poor play of the entire red team, which we didn't count on being compromised all in one day. We also expected their godfather not to be the first one lynched, due to the nature of his investigation immunity. One might even imply that their implosion was a catalyst for the game swinging the way it did.

2. How do you suggest we had nerfed the cult, Vi? If we had not given the bulletproof to Magna, the faction integral to the flavor/surprise would have died N1. And as it is, nobody targeted him for any kind of kill after that, or tried to lynch him.

3. The ways we DID nerf the cult were that they couldn't recruit the scum team leaders, they couldn't talk to any scum they'd recruited (though the scum's wincon would have changed to the cult wincon, and the cult would have been informed of their new member), and last and certainly not least, everyone who they recruited lost any role abilities they had. I am thinking the only better thing we could have done for the cult was to either make Magna 1-shot bulletproof (not that it'd have mattered), and

4. I'm not saying we're blameless at all, but I AM saying that this was quite a swingy setup, and it could have EASILY swung another way. Town had a veritable sh*tload of power, mason recruiters, cops, roles-that-weren't-supposed-to-be-used-as-cops-but-were-held-by-Andrius-so-they-were-used-as-cops-anyway, and a ton of other cultsplosion-mitigating factors.

5. You are giving absolutely no credit to Magna for an extremely well-played game. His avoidance of guilt was fantastic, his recruitment choices were fantastic, and his endgame was fantastic.

[tanstalas]

If he wasn't BP he would have been dead N1. I was also contemplating shooting him my last night alive, but the BP claim gave me pause. Personally, I do think black was too powerful, you saying that you had to give him BPiness otherwise he would have been dead N1 is lulzy. Like you guys keep saying, it was all chance - could have gone any way, if that kill wouldn't have been redirected to him he wouldn't have died, if he wasn't BP he would have died N1

If
If
If

Black was OP, I think odd-night recruitment would have been better or if they could recruit every night then town should have been made aware of the cult at the start

anyhow, thats my $0.02

[Vi]

1. When there are 10 scum in a 25-player game, lynching scum is significantly easier than in a 3-3-18 setup. Especially given the poor play of the entire red team, which we didn't count on being compromised all in one day. We also expected their godfather not to be the first one lynched, due to the nature of his investigation immunity. One might even imply that their implosion was a catalyst for the game swinging the way it did.

Dare I ask how? Fewer scum becoming obvious from the Night actions, thus increasing the chance of a Town lynch?

2. How do you suggest we had nerfed the cult, Vi?

*Secret Cult
*Cult cannot recruit after its presence is made public

If we had not given the bulletproof to Magna, the faction integral to the flavor/surprise would have died N1.

So freaking what?!

3. The ways we DID nerf the cult were that they couldn't recruit the scum team leaders,

so what

they couldn't talk to any scum they'd recruited (though the scum's wincon would have changed to the cult wincon, and the cult would have been informed of their new member),

so what (many games don't let you recruit scum)

and last and certainly not least, everyone who they recruited lost any role abilities they had.

You're underestimating what kind of power is involved in recruitment. Heavily. And you played Supernatural Mafia.

4. I'm not saying we're blameless at all, but I AM saying that this was quite a swingy setup, and it could have EASILY swung another way. Town had a veritable sh*tload of power, mason recruiters, cops, roles-that-weren't-supposed-to-be-used-as-cops-but-were-held-by-Andrius-so-they-were-used-as-cops-anyway, and a ton of other cultsplosion-mitigating factors.

I think you're contradicting that quote I put up earlier about this being a difficult Town game...
The sheer excess of power Town had is a separate issue altogether.

5. You are giving absolutely no credit to Magna for an extremely well-played game. His avoidance of guilt was fantastic, his recruitment choices were fantastic, and his endgame was fantastic.

I'm biased against someone I called out D1 (and didn't retract).
Nonetheless it seems like success in this game was inversely proportional to the number of scumpartners you had.

[Kdub]

I think having the Black recruiter be bulletproof was OK, but I would have limited him to recruiting only town, and either giving him a limited number of recruit attempts, or having a number of town players (the color "leaders") be unrecruitable. The unfair part was having Black be able to recruit "confirmed" town pretty much every night.

[Andrius]

I think the secret cult was bastard. End of story. The 16:9 was doable, as we CLEARLY DEMONSTRATED.
The town being OP does NOT excuse this.
And I agree with the following:[quote]And what really takes this from "very, very failed experiment" to "inexcusable" is that you two are trying to pull this off like you're blameless. The closest thing to an apology or acknowledgment that the game might have been unbalanced was dku's "This is the first time I've run a five-faction game and I think it went well, didn't you?". I even pointed out a better version of the Cult that would have worked with this kind of game, but NOPE, what went on ITT was exactly what you wanted.
[//quote]
Gospel Truth.

[ReaperCharlie]

Good points, Vi. There were many solutions, apparently we didn't pick any of the popular ones though.

And, yeah I played Supernatural mafia lol. I was the cult recruiter.

Well, apologies to all who feel this game was a complete waste of your time. But thanks for playing!

[Andrius]

RC, the sarcasm on that post is really strong.
I loved playing, but the cult pretty much ruined my hopes. /was hoping for godliness for leading the town to victory, but y'know

[Andrius]

SensFan tries to <kill> xRECKONERx but is redirected to MagnaofIllusion. - MAGNA IS BULLETPROOF, NO EFFECT.

HELLO?!??
NON-BULLETPROOF MOI WOULD HAVE BEEN DEAD, GUYS.
DID YOU MISS THIS?

[tanstalas]

SensFan tries to <kill> xRECKONERx but is redirected to MagnaofIllusion. - MAGNA IS BULLETPROOF, NO EFFECT.

HELLO?!??
NON-BULLETPROOF MOI WOULD HAVE BEEN DEAD, GUYS.
DID YOU MISS THIS?

Did you miss where we already talked about this?

[Andrius]

I guess I did.
Link plz?

<3 tanstalas

[ReaperCharlie]

Re: Magna being bulletproof: Overall, seeing that the cult would have been dead on N1 vs winning as they did, I would rather the current outcome than the possible one.

[Kdub]

I think a lot of the issues people are having with the game could have been remedied by a simple solution: this game really needed to be advertised as a bastard mod game (and not just because of the cult).

[Andrius]

^Agrees with above

[gandalf5166]

GANDALF I WISH YOU PLAYED

YOU COULD'VE BEEN PART OF OUR ANTICAPSLAWK ALLIANCE.

IKNORITE?
GLAD I DIDNT THOUGH, CAUSE THAT CULT WAS BULLSHIT
YOU COULD HAVE AT LEAST LABELED THE GAME BASTARD
AND RIGHT, IF RECK HAD CHEATED, HE TOTALLY WOULD HAVE POSTED ALL FOUR RED SCUM D1
THATD TOTALLY BE HOW I WOULD DO IT
CAUSE NOBODY WOULD NOTICE

Uhhh. Yes he did. Remember?

And I am not the only one who mentioned anything about the strangeness of his accuracy on the Red team.

(and

only

the Red team).

LOL SARCASM FAIL

[ReaperCharlie]

Who. You, or me?

[Andrius]

Since I love you all so much: Sprocle: Blackest Night Mafia!!

<3

Andrius Walker

[Kublai Khan]

Oops. Forgot Stephoscope..

Sorry!

[Benmage]

Now consider this game, where Town lynched scum every Day

and still lost

.

Oh wow...

Oh wait wait wait..kagelord was town and lynched D6.

Sooooo this should be filed under why cult should never be in games that aren't labeled bastard.

And a cult that dies when trying to recruit scum = balanced.

[Andrius]

But he never recruited scum, Benmage.