A Storm of Swords - Lay your swords down!

[Benmage]

DR....I'm willing to vote DGB.

Although pending a further look. I'm pretty confident Sparkle is scum... Why haven't they requested the governor? They gonna throw it away? Sotty and hito are bad players ?!?!?!??!?! Baloney.... I'd want to give it to them, because it should be a doom sentence.

[diddin]

By the way, what is your opinion/defense of your contradiction that I caught?

I assume you are referring to this:

GreyICE is town.

Pretty sure Shadow is town.

Die self-contradicting scum. Unvote Vote: Magua

My suspicion of you is not based on you having a townread, it is based on you having a townread on DGB, something that literally no one else does, and that I find to be more than a little incomprehensible. When I call you on it, instead of backing up *why* you find DGB to be a townread, you make a sarcastic comment of "ITT having townreads is scummy", even though that's obviously not what I said.

Unraise: Twilight Sparkle

Raise: Percy

Based on what? Your only Raise before this was your first post, and if Percy had done anything to warrant a Raise you would have changed it prior to him needing to be prodded and his announcement or being sick so limited content.

Twilight Sparkle has stated that they would throw the governor away. That's a terrible use of the governor, so I have no further desire for them have it.

Next on the list of people who I think having the governor would be helpful in reading is Percy, so it's really the same reason as I raised Twilight Sparkle in the first place.

So you can have unexplained townreads on people because other people also think that townread is town, but I can't have townreads that nobody else does? Horse. Shit. Besides I'm pretty sure I wasn't the only soul in this game who had a townread on DGB at that point.

Speaking of which I find DGB's suspicion of has to be a little odd. I understand how he could be scum based on the "things he can and can's say" argument, but I find her push to get has to break his PR to be scummy for reasons others have stated.

Diddin, there is nothing wrong with the fact that you attacked GreyICE, it is the nature of your arguments that I have a problem with. Moreover, the bulk of the reason why I think that you are scummy is for the reasons already pointed out by Magua.

Did you read my reply to your accusation that my attack was weak? Do you have anything to say about that? Also you're admitting to sheeping Magua which is just BAAAAAAAAAAD (groan).

vote: Mikujin

For being the last to self-raise.

raise: DGB

For pointing out how stupid it is to self-raise. We all get that you want to tell us you're town and you trust yourself. It doesn't even need to be stated. Now start trying to play the actual game.

^Case in point for Magua.

[Eddard Stark]

Vote count 1.12

Mikujin (2) Locke Lamora, Danakillsu
xvart (2) Thor665, chesskid3
LynchMePls (1) DrippingGoofball
GreyICE (2) Nexus, Shadow1psc
THor665 (2) Raivann, Twilight Sparkle

diddin (4) Magua, MagnaofIllusion, xvart, Zdenek

danakillsu (1) Benmage
Magua (1) diddin
Kast (1) Zoraster
Hasdgfas (1) Bunnylover
Xtoxm (1) Hasdgfas
Zoraster (1) GreyICE
Drippinggoofball (1) Mikujin
Raivann (1) LynchMePls

Not voting (4) Percy, Xtoxm, Feysal, Kast

With 25 alive it takes 13 to lynch.

Raise Count 1.12

Locke Lamora (1) Locke Lamora
Hasdgfas (1) Feysal

Twilight Sparkle (5) Bunnylover, xvart, LynchMePls, Zdenek, GreyICE

DrippingGoofball (1) Danakillsu
Danakillsu (1) chesskid3
Benmage (5) Benmage, Song of Ice and Fire, MagnaofIllusion, diddin, Mikujin
Magua (1) Hasdgfas
Percy (1) Magua
Shadow1psc (1) Raivann
Not raising (8)Nexus, Percy, Xtoxm, Zoraster, Twilight Sparkle, DrippingGoofball, Kast, Shadow1psc

With 25 alive it takes 13 to raise someone

*Any mistakes in the votecount PLEASE point them out. God knows it'd not be the first time I made a mistake.
* No one needs a prod.
* Nexus is V/la. Percy is sick (V/la).
Also vote count 10 needs to be fixed. I'll do that in a second.
* Deadline countdown is here

[hasdgfas]

Also, hasdgfas, please put a vote up.

*looks at vote count*

[Magua]

So you can have unexplained townreads on people because other people also think that townread is town, but I can't have townreads that nobody else does? Horse. Shit. Besides I'm pretty sure I wasn't the only soul in this game who had a townread on DGB at that point.

I'll say this once more, and then I'm not going to respond to anything else on the subject.

You say you have a townread on DGB. I find this unusual/downright illogical.
I call it scummy.
Instead of responding with *why* you have a townread on DGB, or trying to convince me of your townread on DGB, or any of a number of other things, you respond with a sarcastic deflection ("ITT having townreads is scummy"). That, right there, more than anything else, has marked you as scum in my eyes.

Also, hasdgfas, please put a vote up.

*looks at vote count*

My bad.

[diddin]

So you can have unexplained townreads on people because other people also think that townread is town, but I can't have townreads that nobody else does? Horse. Shit. Besides I'm pretty sure I wasn't the only soul in this game who had a townread on DGB at that point.

I'll say this once more, and then I'm not going to respond to anything else on the subject.

You say you have a townread on DGB. I find this unusual/downright illogical.
I call it scummy.
Instead of responding with *why* you have a townread on DGB, or trying to convince me of your townread on DGB, or any of a number of other things, you respond with a sarcastic deflection ("ITT having townreads is scummy"). That, right there, more than anything else, has marked you as scum in my eyes.

Also, hasdgfas, please put a vote up.

*looks at vote count*

My bad.

My point was that you were attacking me just for having a townread you didn't agree with. What's the problem with that? I admit that the DGB was gut, but what's so wrong about that?

[xvart]

Unraise: Twilight Sparkle

Raise: Percy

Based on what? Your only Raise before this was your first post, and if Percy had done anything to warrant a Raise you would have changed it prior to him needing to be prodded and his announcement or being sick so limited content.

I think it is clear what Magua is doing. The fact you missed this despite it being only just discussed doesn't sit well with me. Reads fake.

It is unclear to me and I don't see Percy being raised as a discussion point anywhere.

DGB - at this point I tend to agree with you about Hascow faking the post restriction, but I do have my reservations. It sounds to me you have zero reservations so why aren't you voting for him?

[GreyICE]

DR....I'm willing to vote DGB.

Although pending a further look. I'm pretty confident Sparkle is scum... Why haven't they requested the governor? They gonna throw it away? Sotty and hito are bad players ?!?!?!??!?! Baloney.... I'd want to give it to them, because it should be a doom sentence.

Ooh, that's an angle I haven't thought of. Do tell us more!

[Mikujin]

ITT we learn that Mikujin does not understand how DGB operates. He also does not know what "unacceptable" really means.

I've played with her once when she was a hybrid in last year's Clash of Kings. Beyond that I've played one other game here so I can honestly say I'm none too familiar with how she operates.

Is that a serious vote? It reads like you are just placing a vote to placate the mob and DGB provided the first excuse.

I dislike the idea DGB is pushing, I think it's a pick at perceived low-hanging-fruit (so to speak).

[Mikujin]

@Mod:

Can confirm I'll be gone starting this Thursday through til Tuesday next week for holidays. Might have intermittent net access, not certain as of yet.

[Nexus]

"If they use AIM or whatever to share ideas, they're town." - Stupid comment. Prove it. Why are you so intent on proving that the hydra is town anyway?

Stupid town lists.

Ben keeps trying to get us to raise him. I'm not a fan of this. Insisting you're town and the best case for raising isn't convincing. Scumhunt and prove you're a useful asset instead.

DGB's insistence on Hascow breaking his post restriction is kinda ridiculous.

Chesskid is surprisingly quiet compared to the last game I read where he was town.

Mikujin failing to put up some form of vote after his catch up is pretty bad. I was always under the impression that on Day 1, generally any vote is better than no vote, even if it only just clarifies your position on someone.

Xtoxm's post after his prod is a list of town/scum. Go away and come back with some real substance. And he doesn't have a vote out.

Mikujin's thing about "YOU'RE NOT GONNA BULLY ME INTO VOTING" smacks of someone desperate to try and win sympathy and get people to ignore him not voting. It's scummy not to have a vote out.

Raivann seriously wants to raise Chesskid or Shadow? Has he seen how they've played before?

Shadow's response was lulzworthy.

I don't like the way Hascow posts. I'm struggling to understand them. That, in itself, may be me being thick, but it's pretty hard to get a read on him when I can't tell what's going on. I don't know whether this makes him scummy, we can't tell whether or not he's supposed to be like that. I don't want him to break his posting restriction purely to satiate my lack of understanding.

Zoraster, y u rolefish?

Magua, why the flip are you raising Percy? He hasn't done ANYTHING at all. He's sick. Waste of time. Might as well have not raised him.

Ooh finally Mikujin throws out a vote. He has a point though, DGB trying to outguess mod penalties is pretty damn bad. Down boy, down.

GreyICE, asking "are you sure enough that Hascow is scum that you would be willing to be lynched tomorrow if he flips town?" is terrible play. I am not a fan of that. Just when I was getting a townier read on you, you come out with a line like that. These stupid lynch bets aren't helpful to anyone. Likewise DGB, don't agree to it. That doesn't give you town points. It just makes you look stupid.

Dana comes in and buddies with DGB, all three of his points are "OMGILOVEYOUDGB"

Pointless speculation on SoIaF replacing out is pointless. For all you know his dad might've died. Probably not, but saying that the slot is scum based on that and his lack of posts before is a bit silly.

Hey, Bunnylover has posted again. I don't really remember much from Bunnylover's posts. A couple of them are buddied up with DGB on Hascow, but that's about it.

Ok, so DGB just focussing on the Hascow is similar to his only focussing on GreyICE earlier. This, to me, is scummy. Look at the rest of the damn player list. If Hascow is faking his post restriction, so be it. I don't think it's enough to lynch him yet, and it seems like you don't have enough support for it, so why not focus on looking at who everyone else thinks is scummy, and help build a case against them?

I'm less convinced of GreyICE as scum now.

unvote

Vote: DGB

Will you please stop tunnelling on Hascow. It seems to me he won't break his restriction. I don't think he'll be the lynch. Let's stop this now.

Elsewhere, I'm thinking scummy are Bunnylover and Dana for their (what I perceive to be) buddying of DGB, and perhaps zoraster for his vig fishing.

[DrippingGoofball]

DGB - at this point I tend to agree with you about Hascow faking the post restriction, but I do have my reservations. It sounds to me you have zero reservations so why aren't you voting for him?

So many people seem to defend him, or be fooled by it. I think this little problem that is hascow's fake restriction is more likely to be resolved at night.

[DrippingGoofball]

Ok, so DGB just focussing on the Hascow is similar to his only focussing on GreyICE earlier. This, to me, is scummy.

Oh really.

It wasn't GreyICE focusing on me, instead???

And then how do you explain how I got, through the thick fog of his shenanigans and a vigorous wagon forming, a TOWN read off GreyICE, and got that town read earlier than everyone else?

How is this tunneling? A player aggressively tunnels on me, flips flops a few times with a lot of drama, I call him town, that's ME tunneling?

Will you please stop tunnelling on Hascow. It seems to me he won't break his restriction. I don't think he'll be the lynch. Let's stop this now.

Who I choose to tunnel on is my business, and you don't tell me who I should suspect and pressure. Presently I think I'm tunneling on scum. You're voting a townie.

[DrippingGoofball]

I dislike the idea DGB is pushing, I think it's a pick at perceived low-hanging-fruit (so to speak).

The guy with a post-restriction that everyone is mollycoddling is the low-hanging fruit? Mmmmmmmmmm from my perspective I feel like I have found the hardest-to-lynch scumbag ever.

Remind me of faking a post restriction next time.

*drools abundantly*

*climbs curtains*

*swings from chandelier*

*falls into a triple catwheel*

*scratches armpits*

[GreyICE]

DGB - at this point I tend to agree with you about Hascow faking the post restriction, but I do have my reservations. It sounds to me you have zero reservations so why aren't you voting for him?

So many people seem to defend him, or be fooled by it. I think this little problem that is hascow's fake restriction is more likely to be resolved at night.

THANK YOU.

GOD DGB WE'VE BEEN TELLING YOU THIS AND TELLING YOU THIS AND TELLING YOU THIS.

[DrippingGoofball]

I know you have, but a lynch would be more efficient.

[GreyICE]

I know you have, but a lynch would be more efficient.

UNLESS HE'S ACTUALLY TOWN DEAR GOD THINK ABOUT IT FOR A SECOND YOU ARE SMART I KNOW THIS I HAVE READ YOUR GAMES YIYIYIYIYIYIYIYI

GO HUNT SOME SCUM. ZORASTER AND MIKUJIN ARE CALLING TO YOU DGB. DO YOU THINK THEY'RE BOTH TOWN? 'CAUSE I DON'T.

[DrippingGoofball]

They're probably both scum.

[GreyICE]

Okay, then I think we're on the same page with them. Coin flip on which and then we can stop this nonsense debate and start some goddamn pressure?

[zoraster]

Zoraster, y u rolefish?

Well I'm not sure I'd call it rolefishing. Name fishing maybe, although even that's a stretch. In this case, it serves a purpose: gives me some way of evaluating the post restriction.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Also, hasdgfas, please put a vote up.

Aside from the fact that he already had one up why are you focusing on certain players and not others in regards to having place a vote?

Percy, Xtoxm, Feysal and Kast all have not voted. Percy is V/LA due to sickness but Kast is active and the others are lurking in some form or fashion.

--

In other news, loving MoI. He FOSes one of my scum suspects and then whines about me flopping my vote around. Way to be consistent, man. Sorry there's more than one scum in the game.

Complete misrep here.

1. I didn’t FOS anyone (show me where my posts where those letters appear) in the direct meaning of the phrase. Were you referring to my question about having a Town read on Zoraster? I am expressing suspicion of Zoraster.
2. You are attempting to mischaracterize my attack as whining about vote hopping when that of course is not the case. Can you show me where I attacked you for vote-hopping? I’m attacking you not for moving your vote but for the scummy manner in which you do it, as shown below.

GreyICE – “DGB is obvscum for cutting off discussion about Raising of the Hand.”
Others – Show how DGB’s ‘Infinite Dayvig’ claim didn’t cut of discussion.
GreyICE – “DGB made a single post with content, she’s not obvscum anymore”

GreyICE – “DGB just lied about Cow’s role in a game over 2 years old. I should have never moved my vote”
Others – Demonstrate how it wasn’t a lie at all given the facts and circumstances.
GreyICE – “Muki is clearly scum and must be hung”

You jumping on multiple players with next to no actually scum-motivate behavior you can back up and following up with rhetoric. Then when called on such you pretty much ignore the criticism and drop the subject of the person altogether until you can find some other ‘scum-tell’. The timing of said jumps seems very much to coincide with whatever general consensus can be had in the thread, aka coat-tailing.

And now you ostensibly are wanting to 'work' with DGB. Have you officially called of your obvscum read on her?

3. Your consistency attack is crap. How exactly am I bouncing my vote around? I’m not. Of course I know there are multiple scum in the game. That’s the point of questioning players besides the one my vote is on. Again, a dismissive statement by yourself that doesn’t bear any direct relation to the facts of the game.

I don't get this at all. Why would that sequence of events happen? The namecop can breadcrumb their results somewhere. We'll find the breadcrumb if they die. Come out on day 3/4 and give us a laundry list of results. Meanwhile we lose nothing by waiting except that we have to flip someone else.

It more or less happened in Clash of Kings. Locke came out Day 3 with scans on diddin and Percy because he got a guilty on Percy. And then proceeded to be blocked until he died.

Not to mention the danger of breadcrumbing results which could easily lead to scum picking up on them and killing said Cop.

I generally don’t buy the Town mindset of “Don’t lynch player that multiple people suspect, let’s let the Cop deal with them at night”. If enough people believe Cow is faking and scum lynching him is a wise course of action. There is so much that can go wrong with planning to see what the Cop brings Day 3/4 that banking on it is at best just stupid.

You risk hitting Town if you do lynch Cow, but lynching anyone else brings the same uncertainty so that’s an invalid argument.

--

And notice how hascow is cowering under a bail of hay and barely participating since I showed up at the farm driving the slaughterhouse truck.

At this point either shit or get off the pot. You aren’t voting for Cow as of this post. If this is some Grand DGB-style ‘Tarp’ it isn’t working. People are more interested in you moving on to do some scum-hunting. You’ve made your point we know – you believe Cow is faking a Post Restriction and that’s scum motivation. Either push the wagon on Cow or start actually pushing LMP (who your vote is on currently) or one of your other scum reads.

--

@ DGB
Keep up that pressure.

What pressure? The only person actually voting for Cow when you posted this was Bunnylover. If you support DGB’s thoughts why didn’t you vote for Cow yourself?

--

Exactly. Why would someone named that get replaced? She was obviously stoked for this game, but got caught as scum early.

Or the other option is she’s a relative Newb (November 2010 join date) who has played in exactly one game other than this one and flaked from the site completely. That never happens

--

Shadow is firmly on my scum detector. I don't see him trying to find scum at all, while trying to slip under the radar. Because nothing has changed from my initial scum reads, that makes LL, Kast and Shadow my scum reads. I'd love to see a wagon on any one of them.

Really? Shadow’s contributions to scum hunting read as much more honest than yours at this juncture.

I think I have an idea who cow is (or is claiming to be) and potentially why the mods would have done it that way. I'm not sure I should reveal l it at this point because I'm not sure of my guess and it might not help town to know this early, but I'd love if cow would address my previous question to him.

This is really bad. That charcter was outed within a page or so of Cow’s acknowledging that he has a Post Restriction. This is blatant ‘Look, I’m being Pro-Town by pretending not to out information’.

@Anyone with Zoraster meta

– Is he usually this scattered / scummy in games? Having seen a few of his games I can’t exactly buy someone who runs elaborate and detailed set-ups would make mistakes like this and the whole ‘Chess is dead’ thing.

--

Overall I small sweet, have a manly beard, and desire to lynch Magna on general principle.

Welcome Thor. Two words – Reboot Mafia. Mull them over for me.

--

To me, it read like you were taking a snipe at him as a VI and yet you had raised him after your early game rant. Your explanation tells me I read that wrong, but I am still paranoid. Can I get some games you were in with Benmage as a "Pro-Town force"?

Please point to the exact quote where you think I was swiping at Benmage as a VI. I’d really like to know where you saw that because that’s about as far removed from what I’ve said about Ben as you can get.

Games I’ve played with Benmage where I believe he was a Pro-Town force or worked well with me or both –

Kingdom of Loathing Mafia.

Clash of Kings -especially after Day 1 which made sense in relation to his role.

Supernatural Mafia – I acknowledge this is an odd choice from the standpoint that he was actually a Mafia Traitor. Yet as my neighbor we collaborated well in the QT and caught the Scum Leader (ReaperCharlie) red handed Night 1.

Gorrad’s Favorite Characters Mafia – he replaced useless Zaz and was one of the two player I trusted, late game gambit not-withstanding.

@Twilight Sotty

– Please prod Hito to answer the question I’ve got hanging out for him.

--

Kast has a scummy avatar, and it's making me unable to read him

I had hopes you would try to avoid playing the VI / Troll this game. Only to see them dashed on the Rocks of Reality …

[GreyICE]

Zoraster, y u rolefish?

Well I'm not sure I'd call it rolefishing. Name fishing maybe, although even that's a stretch. In this case, it serves a purpose: gives me some way of evaluating the post restriction.

Dude, we can still read.

A thought about raising. The biggest time it would come in handy is in lylo to keep a quicklynch from occurring. But scum is unlikely to let the governor get that far. We definitely don't want it in scum's hands, but do we do ourselves a disservice by giving it to the towniest person who contributes a lot and may also be a good town power role? Maybe we're best served by giving it to a VI, hope for a scum kill or a vigilante kill right away.

Just a thought. If we KNEW we had a vigilante, this would be clearer: give it to vig bait and let him get shot.

You're directing town power onto a target I'm not even sure it should go onto, you've kicked out the

"KNEW"

when you KNOW we have members who are inexperienced enough that they very well might be the vig and very well might bite, and you did it in a way that doesn't even make sense - we can raise and lynch a person in the same day, so why not put it on our lynch then?

@MOI:

I don't know if DGB is town or not. I'm leaning towards not. I DO want to see what DGB does when she's forced out of this godawful tunnel. I think there's no excuse for her staying in it at this point. I'm letting her pick the target because handing potential scum WIFOM is so very, very sweet. Also, frankly, while benmage might actually be a decent player if he spent less time telling us how good a player he is, he has a bit of a point - given a choice, I'd rather lynch a scummy player who is terrible at scumhunting than a scummy player who is good at scumhunting.

When you accuse me of floating AFTER the town, you're just basically not following the thread at all. Who was the first vote on Zoraster? Not you. Who called out Mikujin? Well, several people. But if you think I'm floating from bandwagon to bandwagon, check your thread. I think there are people with which we have a MUCH better chance of hitting scum with than a cow lynch.

[Zdenek]

@Zdenek-
Clarify, are you claiming that:
-I lied/mischaracterized GreyIce's behavior
-I tried push GreyIce's "negative but not scummy behavior" as if it was scummy behavior
-Something else...(elaborate)

From context you seem to think any negative judgment about another player/post, regardless of veracity, is mudslinging if it is not an indictment of that player as scum. However, you aren't applying this same criteria to similar posts by others, which makes your objection seem lazy or insincere.

I think my previous explanation of what i meant by mudslinging answers your first question: my choice is "something else" and I've already elaborated.

What I didn't like about what you did in particular was that you phrased your comment as a question:

Do you have any links to past games where you similarly go crazy over nothing?

Other people have definitely done mudslinging, GreyICE for instance, but it's already been pointed out, and some other people have called others dumb or VI's, but passing judgments like that can often be useful. For instance, as an explanation why they aren't voting someone. If you think I've missed something, tell me where it is.

If you think hasdgfas is scummy (DGB), that's fine. Concentrating solely on the technical points of his post restriction (danakillsu) is useless.

I disagree with this. If we can figure out the technical points of his post restriction, then we can determine when/if he's broken it, and if there are no repercussions, then we know he's faking it.

Did you read my reply to your accusation that my attack was weak? Do you have anything to say about that? Also you're admitting to sheeping Magua which is just BAAAAAAAAAAD (groan).

Yes, I read it, and it didn't convince me that you're not scummy. Also, when other people have already given rather convincing arguments against someone, there is nothing to be gained by repeating them.

Mikujin seems scummy to me for his vote on DGB because his reasons seem like they point to null-tells rather than scum-tells.

[zoraster]

This is really bad. That charcter was outed within a page or so of Cow’s acknowledging that he has a Post Restriction. This is blatant ‘Look, I’m being Pro-Town by pretending not to out information’.

I must have missed that.

@Anyone with Zoraster meta – Is he usually this scattered / scummy in games? Having seen a few of his games I can’t exactly buy someone who runs elaborate and detailed set-ups would make mistakes like this and the whole ‘Chess is dead’ thing.

Well, I have my own meta, though obviously I don't expect you to put any great weight on it. The answer to this question is basically: No. Not always. It depends on the game. But I don't

think

there's a connection between whether I've been scatterbrained and scummy. It's happened before to my chagrin, but I don't recall being scum in those instances.

You're directing town power onto a target I'm not even sure it should go onto, you've kicked out the "KNEW" when you KNOW we have members who are inexperienced enough that they very well might be the vig and very well might bite, and you did it in a way that doesn't even make sense - we can raise and lynch a person in the same day, so why not put it on our lynch then?

Good point. Why don't we do this?

[Magua]

Magua, why the flip are you raising Percy? He hasn't done ANYTHING at all. He's sick. Waste of time. Might as well have not raised him.

Asked and answered.

Elsewhere, I'm thinking scummy are Bunnylover and Dana for their (what I perceive to be) buddying of DGB, and perhaps zoraster for his vig fishing.

If you think Dana and Bunnylover are buddying DGB, doesn't that imply that DGB is town?

@Nexus:

What do you think of diddin?

Aside from the fact that he already had one up why are you focusing on certain players and not others in regards to having place a vote?

Because they're the ones I'm interested in seeing vote. Given hasdgfas' post restriction, voting is the absolute easiest way to get a read on him.

If you think hasdgfas is scummy (DGB), that's fine. Concentrating solely on the technical points of his post restriction (danakillsu) is useless.

I disagree with this. If we can figure out the technical points of his post restriction, then we can determine when/if he's broken it, and if there are no repercussions, then we know he's faking it.

This, this, and this are all pretty good indications that that's not going to happen.

So,

@Zdenek

, do you think hasdgfas is scummy or not?

Good point. Why don't we

[raise the person we're going to lynch]

?

Because throwing the governor away is useless when it can be used for reads.

Seriously, the fact that someone of you (and I'm looking at you, Twilight Sparkle) are considering that governor is a

detriment

to the town on D1 is ludicrous.