Mini 1126 - Game over - Was Averagely Suspicious saved?

[GreyICE]

@Errant Apropos: Nowish

Oh lord I've touched off an early-game FoS frenzy.

I don't like your "gut instinct" excuse or your complete lack of discussion of your vote. It's also really early to be putting someone at L-1. This concerns me.

Oh yes. My vote sucks. Along with the six other people voting for him.

5 other people. Or were you hoping it was a lynch already?

Ehehehemeee. No, this doesn't make any sense.

Wait, a frank admission that your reasoning doesn't make sense? Or did I miss something?

I also find it amusing that you accused another player of misinterpreting, then admit you didn't even FoS the right player.

Okay, yeah, this is the scummiest post made yet in the game. "This concerns me," the insinuations, and the last bit where he misquotes Hiraki to try and weaken the case without saying anything real against it, yeah.

Unvote

Vote: Bill

[subgenius]

No, that's a misinterpretation. A ballsy player from either alignment might post that they did not vote for the quicker day start.

Cool, then let the record show that I wish to have my earlier apology stricken from the record. I am now back to my original level of finger pointing at Hiraki.

[subgenius]

So Erratus is town yay let's move on.

As far as I know, the only people that know whether or not this is true are Erratus and scum...

[Ashblade]

I was going to head to bed and reply in the morning, but now I can't help myself...

I'm sorry. I know I should have started in a newbie game, and I know I look extremely scummy right now. I apologize that me feeling like I could just jump right into a mini game could ruin this game for all of you. Honestly, I don't have much I could possibly say in defense of myself right now. I know no one will believe me, but I truly didn't count the votes, nor did it occur to me how serious my voting would be. I also did not realize that I was opening up an opportunity for mafia to throw open the floodgates and blitz a mislynch. But practice makes perfect. And you gotta learn from your mistakes. And I've learned all right. .-. But that's truly all I can say. I'm not going to sit here and beg you not to lynch me. I know I look scummy as all get out. I know what I'd think if I saw anyone else do that. But if I'm getting lynched, I wanna go out on a good note, and I truly do apologize for plunging on in here without a clue as to what I was doing. >.<

Not an appeal to emotion at all, just the truth. As I have yet to adopt a playing style on this site, I feel obliged to inform you that I play mafia VERY aggressively. I don't care if I'm under pressure or not. That's just how I am.

As I mentioned above, I'm an aggressive player. I like to throw my FoS's out there swiftly. My gut instinct might be my "excuse" at the moment, but in my own mind I truly do have reasons for the FoS. I know, sounds odd, but I'm an odd person. And as I mentioned in my above "emotional appeal", I truly wasn't aware that I was putting someone into such a serious position.

One of these posts is not like the other, especially since the question didn't exactly need that kind of apology, and DEFINITELY not that kind of AtE.

@the 5 other people thing, excuse me for misspeaking. I wasn't aware that human beings were expected to never make mistakes nowadays. >.<[

And here's yet another apology when in mafia people are hanged for sneezing funny. You sure you're an aggressive player?

Bill could also use more votes, but I'm not ready to join justtttttt yet.

As far as I know, the only people that know whether or not this is true are Erratus and scum...

Potato, Potatoe.

[Erratus Apathos]

The consensus is wrong. The later the start of day is, the later the end of day is, and thus the more time there is for discussion overall. Ergo, not voting to start the day is pro-town.

This is pretty hair-splitty considering that we'd have had an extra 24 hours at most, and I think you're pretty obviously discounting (since it's bad for your case) that in the pretty likely event that the scum can't daytalk that the bonus time applies equally to town and scum, and therefore benefits the scum more (for further proof, check out the several pages dedicated to pretending that Wikkiden wasn't here/cupcakes).

Pregame talk has diminishing returns for scum though. After getting the initial "Alice is a VI, Bob lurks like a champ, Carol goes after lurkers" and so on out of the way, there's not a whole lot to say until N1. Of course I can't say for sure that happened in this game, but it's happened every time I've been scum. Whereas the in-thread pregame talk, while initially silly, got fairly serious in the middle, and reached considerable levels of seriousness after my post, and we wound up skipping the RVS entirely, which gets us more use of the "real" day.

My scum reads so far:

Ashblade is scummy. He's voting Hiraki but has barely mentioned him, and hasn't at all mentioned him being scummy. All the while, he's brought up reasons to suspect Barry, Bill, wikkiden, and me. I feel he's trying to leave his options open here.

Subgenius is scummy too. I don't think Hiraki claiming to have mis-FoSed Barry rather than Bill is unreasonable, it seems like he's really reaching to call Hiraki scum. His defense of Bill bothers me as well:

I happen to think this particular meta interpretation makes a certain amount of sense. It was, in fact, to scum's advantage to delay the start of the game, and Erratus admitted that he didn't vote to start the game. I don't think this is damning evidence against Erratus, but it is a bit fishy, and a better reason to cast a vote than is usually seen at this point in the game.

He says that voting me for my delaying tactic is better than RVS, which is a reasonable point. But his first vote was a generic RVS vote:

Congratulations, Ashblade, you wrote the 100th pre-game post! Here's your prize!

Vote: Ashblade

So what the hell? If I was a better vote than random, why did you random vote instead of voting me? Heck, why didn't you mention my post at all before saying Bill was right to attack me for it?

RobCapone is null. I don't really think that was a scum slip.

UNVOTE: RobCapone
VOTE: subgenius

[GreyICE]

So Erratus is town yay let's move on.

As far as I know, the only people that know whether or not this is true are Erratus and scum...

I'm pretty sure this post is the equivalent of roleclaiming scum if you're not in a newbie game.

Unvote

Vote:Subgenius

[RobCapone]

Wow, that's... quite an appeal to emotion you got there. You're not even under pressure there, chief. Maybe you ought to be.

Unvote, Vote: wikkiden

.

thanks, this made it a lot easier

Vote Bill

AtE isn't a scum tell and using buzzwords to try and get someone lynched is scummy

[Bill McQuill]

AtE isn't a scum tell

He basically groveled for the town's forgiveness after an L-1 vote that approximately two players even commented on. He invoked being a newer player and apologized profusely for "ruining" the game after a more experienced player asked him why he skipped the Newbie game queue. He's trying to be deferential and cover his bases all at the same time.

That's slightly more than the average AtE.

and using buzzwords to try and get someone lynched is scummy.

This is a pretty staggering number of assumptions and faulty leaps of logic, condensed into half a sentence.

Let's start here: your quip - "using buzzwords to try and get someone lynched is scummy" - is essentially a sentence-long buzzword (rule of thumb, if you prefer), and so you're effectively using the same strategy to vote for me that I used to vote for wikkiden, which you purport to find suspicious.

[Snake Eyes]

AtE isn't a scum tell

He basically groveled for the town's forgiveness after an L-1 vote that approximately two players even commented on. He invoked being a newer player and apologized profusely for "ruining" the game after a more experienced player asked him why he skipped the Newbie game queue. He's trying to be deferential and cover his bases all at the same time.

That's slightly more than the average AtE.

It was a ridiculous post but not entirely unexpected, as he's obviously used to a significantly different type of mafia. I'm more concerned with you going after all the really obvious targets and generally attacking bad play rather than finding scum.

VOTE: Bill McQuill


Subgenius' case on Hiraki doesn't feel unnatural to me. Hiraki has yet to explain why he didn't explain his FoS in the first post. It's perfectly plausible to mix Barry and Bill because of the similar usernames, but the main point of the issue seems to be that he didn't provide reasoning in the first post.

So Erratus is town yay let's move on.

As far as I know, the only people that know whether or not this is true are Erratus and scum...

I'm pretty sure this post is the equivalent of roleclaiming scum if you're not in a newbie game.

Unvote

Vote:Subgenius

Is this some scumtell I'm unaware of?

[Dekes]

The active bunch argues back and forth before the sun has reached its zenith and one person is already brought halfway to the noose. Yet a consens has not been reached and the debate continues...

Votecount 1.1

subgenius (L-5): Erratus Apathos, GreyICE
Erratus Apathos (L-5): Barry Allen
Bill McQuill (L-3): Hiraki, Papa Zito, RobCapone, Snake Eyes
Hiraki (L-5): subgenius, Ashblade
wikkiden (L-6): Bill McQuill

Not voting: mockingjaye, wikkiden, Hayker

With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch and 7 to no lynch.

Deadline is

March, the 3rd, at 06:00 p.m. EST

[RobCapone]

Bill, real quick

you are using a null tell to make wikki seem scummy and only using that reason for your vote is a failure to scum hunt

my vote is noticing you aren't scum hunting and using a null tell to make wikki seem scummy. If you had other reasons you should have posted them at the time of your vote, but using AtE alone is not reason to lynch anyone.

@ wikki - I am perplexed now

earlier you made this comment

o; Well this is my first game, technically. :3 I'm placed in a noobie game. But izzz too slow for meeeee. I play on epicmafia all the time though. My scumdar is top quality. >:]

but towards the beginning of confirmation stage you made this comment

I can't believe none of you remember me. V.V I guess I'm just the easy to forget type. *Sigh* /tear.

something doesn't sit right, either this is your first game or you are an alt and actually have been here a while, if you truly are new how would anyone remember you?

[Barry Allen]

Some quick notes:

1. I'm not comfortable with the way Bill jumped on wikki. I do think wikki is appealing to emotion, especially with his unvote "if it will make you happy". However, that post from wikki came after Bill jumped on wikki. Something just isn't right here...I'm torn between voting Bill and voting wikki right now.

2. @GreyICE...could you please explain that post in which you voted sub? Zito declares someone "town", and that looks bad to me - I'm not ready to declare that any other player is town, and don't know why Zito would do so. Sub has been all over the place, but calling out Zito for that remark doesn't look like a scumtell to me, so please let us know more about your thoughts here.

3. @Ashblade - I would like more about how I'm "all over the place". I FoS'd someone and didn't vote only because of my massively stupid vote count...and voted as soon as that count was corrected. I haven't sent out other suspicions prior to this post, so I don't get your assessment. If you want all over the place, just read sub's posts.

For now, while I'm not ready to declare anyone town, I no longer think Erratus is the right vote for D1. That "case" in post 102 is not a case Erratus - it's more OMGUS than anything - but your later contributions to the thread have lessened my suspicions enough that I think pulling that vote is appropriate.

VOTE: UNVOTE[/]

tldr - looking at Bill and wikki right now. My inclination would be more voting Bill, but wikki's "if it will make you happy" posts keep nagging at something in the back of my brain...

[Barry Allen]

tag fail.....

VOTE: UNVOTE

[RobCapone]

Oh forgot to say something

lol at you zito if you think the speed of a wagon clears that person

[subgenius]

So what the hell? If I was a better vote than random, why did you random vote instead of voting me? Heck, why didn't you mention my post at all before saying Bill was right to attack me for it?

I knew people were going to pile on you for your pre-game post, and I think you deserved the scrutiny, but I felt no need to hop aboard your band wagon when it almost certainly wasn't going to amount to anything and others were going to say what needed to be said anyway.

As far as I know, the only people that know whether or not this is true are Erratus and scum...

I'm pretty sure this post is the equivalent of roleclaiming scum if you're not in a newbie game.

What?:neutral: I honestly don't understand how pointing out that townies cannot know the alignment of other players with certainty is a scum claim, but feel free to enlighten me.

[GreyICE]

As far as I know, the only people that know whether or not this is true are Erratus and scum...

I'm pretty sure this post is the equivalent of roleclaiming scum if you're not in a newbie game.

What?:neutral: I honestly don't understand how pointing out that townies cannot know the alignment of other players with certainty is a scum claim, but feel free to enlighten me.

Nah, here's how town would say it:

"I don't think we can conclude EA is town because of how awesomely cool that wagon was."

Here's how scum say it: "Hehe, I think EA could still be scum, but Papa Zito is obvscum too for saying he knows who is town."

Yeaaaahhh, just waiting for someone else to start the wagon are we?

[subgenius]

As far as I know, the only people that know whether or not this is true are Erratus and scum...

I'm pretty sure this post is the equivalent of roleclaiming scum if you're not in a newbie game.

What?:neutral: I honestly don't understand how pointing out that townies cannot know the alignment of other players with certainty is a scum claim, but feel free to enlighten me.

Nah, here's how town would say it:

"I don't think we can conclude EA is town because of how awesomely cool that wagon was."

Here's how scum say it: "Hehe, I think EA could still be scum, but Papa Zito is obvscum too for saying he knows who is town."

Yeaaaahhh, just waiting for someone else to start the wagon are we?

Well, those two statements are both making two pretty different points. I made the second one, and I don't think it's a scummy one to make. I do like how you paraphrased my version accompanied by sinister chuckling and over-the-top accusations, though. Was I twirling my handlebar moustache when I said that?

I standby my comment. Acting like you know someone is town is scummy, especially since a hypothetical cop wouldn't have had an investigation yet. If my vote wasn't already on Hiraki, I'd be perfectly willing to vote for Papa Zito.

[Ashblade]

Mod: subgenius is voting Hiraki, not Grey as you have down.

Fixed. Thank you.

Ashblade is scummy. He's voting Hiraki but has barely mentioned him, and hasn't at all mentioned him being scummy. All the while, he's brought up reasons to suspect Barry, Bill, wikkiden, and me. I feel he's trying to leave his options open here.

I don't want to just yet. Will it amount to nothing? Maybe, but I'm not done picking at others. Putting my fleeting thoughts down on other small 'hmm's and minor minor suspicions keeps my thoughts straight.

Some quick notes:
3. @Ashblade - I would like more about how I'm "all over the place". I FoS'd someone and didn't vote only because of my massively stupid vote count...and voted as soon as that count was corrected. I haven't sent out other suspicions prior to this post, so I don't get your assessment. If you want all over the place, just read sub's posts.

I feel you will or are in the background, and trust me in that I already see sub.

I standby my comment. Acting like you know someone is town is scummy, especially since a hypothetical cop wouldn't have had an investigation yet. If my vote wasn't already on Hiraki,

I'd be perfectly willing to vote for Papa Zito.

Grey is town, you going to lynch me for saying that?

It's a shame, I wanted Hiraki to talk a little more while I picked at him, and then you became scum. I'd have brushed off or thought minorly on the thought that "you can't clear people 100%", and I would have brushed off the "scumslip" (Don't truly believe in most scumslips other people think they see), but add all you're contradictions in thoughts and posts answering these accusations and I think we have someone who thinks they are trying to be town but isn't.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: subgenius

[GreyICE]

Well, those two statements are both making two pretty different points. I made the second one, and I don't think it's a scummy one to make. I do like how you paraphrased my version accompanied by sinister chuckling and over-the-top accusations, though. Was I twirling my handlebar moustache when I said that?

I standby my comment. Acting like you know someone is town is scummy, especially since a hypothetical cop wouldn't have had an investigation yet. If my vote wasn't already on Hiraki, I'd be perfectly willing to vote for Papa Zito.

No it's not. You need quite a few snap judgments on day 1 in order to narrow the suspect pool. You can revise those as appropriate, but there's no reason not to snap assume certain people are town to narrow down to the scum for your first lynch.

Scum tend to HATE this, because frequently the method is good at narrowing down to them or a partner. Check out how many day 1 bandwagons have been started on scum - they happen because the scum is acting scummy, and people filter out the town posts until they have a list of scum.

[subgenius]

Grey is town, you going to lynch me for saying that?

If I thought there was any probability that you're serious, I might.

It's a shame, I wanted Hiraki to talk a little more while I picked at him, and then you became scum. I'd have brushed off or thought minorly on the thought that "you can't clear people 100%", and I would have brushed off the "scumslip" (Don't truly believe in most scumslips other people think they see), but add all you're contradictions in thoughts and posts answering these accusations and I think we have someone who thinks they are trying to be town but isn't.

Yeah, I'm going to answer accusations. I guess that makes me scum. I feel like I've explained any "contradictions," but if you've got anything specific to cite, please do so. I'll answer your questions, which will be win/win, since I'll have a chance to explain myself, and apparently by offering explanations, I'll be outing myself as scum. I also find it amusing that I'm being accused of "being all over the place" when I've kept my vote in the same place after my RV and only referenced two players as possible scum.

No it's not. You need quite a few snap judgments on day 1 in order to narrow the suspect pool. You can revise those as appropriate, but there's no reason not to snap assume certain people are town to narrow down to the scum for your first lynch.

Scum tend to HATE this, because frequently the method is good at narrowing down to them or a partner. Check out how many day 1 bandwagons have been started on scum - they happen because the scum is acting scummy, and people filter out the town posts until they have a list of scum.

This seems like putting on blinders to me. If Zito wants to privately assume Erratus is town, that's his business, but I think issuing a proclamation that so-and-so is town is unhelpful at best and scummy at worst. Unhelpful because it's artificially putting an end to a conversation that might lead somewhere, scummy because it conveys a certainty that a townie simply can't have.

[GreyICE]

Awesome! Q&A sessions! These are made of win! I've always enjoyed hard slamming wine.

Okay:

1) How do you reconcile these two statements, and what is your impression of the writer after making them?

I'm sorry. I know I should have started in a newbie game, and I know I look extremely scummy right now. I apologize that me feeling like I could just jump right into a mini game could ruin this game for all of you. Honestly, I don't have much I could possibly say in defense of myself right now. I know no one will believe me, but I truly didn't count the votes, nor did it occur to me how serious my voting would be. I also did not realize that I was opening up an opportunity for mafia to throw open the floodgates and blitz a mislynch. But practice makes perfect. And you gotta learn from your mistakes. And I've learned all right. .-. But that's truly all I can say. I'm not going to sit here and beg you not to lynch me. I know I look scummy as all get out. I know what I'd think if I saw anyone else do that. But if I'm getting lynched, I wanna go out on a good note, and I truly do apologize for plunging on in here without a clue as to what I was doing. >.<

I'm an aggressive player. I like to throw my FoS's out there swiftly.

Bonus points: Find what's missing.

2) Rob has a meta of being an extremely active poster, except for the last game I was in where he was scum (Mini: 1105). Do you think that his gameplay here is similar, and is that a good reason to suspect him?

3) I have a one-shot power that allows me to choose three players, and one of them will be vigged at random. If I had to submit right now, whose names should I submit (brief explanation would be nice)?

[GreyICE]

To clarify: Rob was called on lurking in #2, and his gameplay fell apart

[RobCapone]

1. I beleive I pointed out a similar contradiction from the person you are talking about, but that is definitly what it seems, a contradiction. If he is an alt than he should say he is

2. I don't feel rob's play this game is the same as that game. He seemed to ignore the game completely til called out, here he seems to be scum hunting a bit, I'd put him on town's side

3. Not sure if I beleive you and if true why the hell would you claim that now, but tbh Bill, erratus , and Barry probably

[GreyICE]

*snip*

Answer feeding isn't fun, and I must use before end of day one

[RobCapone]

Your questions weren't directed at anyone, I assumed you were asking everyone. Apologies