A Storm of Swords - Lay your swords down!

[chesskid3]

scum, obv
xvart wagon is going places though

[Raivann]

@Diddin- Did you see songs post?

[Raivann]

I agree with zoraster, Don't replace out DGB!

[Raivann]

@Didden- I've actually got a town read on you. Please put you're vote somewhere better.

Can we agree on anyone?

How about Feysal?

What's you're views on xvart?

[Raivann]

Or "your" is more right.

[Bunnylover]

@Mod:

xvart has 4 votes on him, not 3, and Benmage has 5 raises, ahead of Twilight Sparkle's 4.

bunnylover, chesskid, thoughts on diddin?

I just got through reading Diddin ISO, and throughout it I didn't get a single read of if he's scum or town.
I actually like his last post he made.
I believe Diddin is scumhunting or at least trying to.

[Locke Lamora]

I've been struggling for time (for what should be obvious reasons) so I'll get to this in detail tonight.

[Nexus]

@Mod: Is DGB definitely replacing out?

Mod ~ We're not sure. DGB hasn't responded to the PM explaining the steps that have been taken. We are not currently searching for a replacement for her, just for GreyICE. Speaking of which, if you know somebody who wants in, act now.

[Xtoxm]

Sad to see GreyICE and DGB go like that, but I can't blame either of them.

Vote: Xvart

Why have people decided this Governor ability is something they want to keep in the game?

[LimMePls]

Raivann is being criminally undervoted.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Since GreyICE is being replaced I will not waste any words refuting his futher bad logic.

I’ll ISO xvart when I have time later but the players on the wagon as shown in Post 568 tells me it probably isn’t a good place to go (Chesskid, GreyICE and Raivann)

TL DR Summary of below

– my pool of those I’m willing to lynch has widened to, in approximate order – Zoraster, diddin, Raivann, and GreyICE’s replacement.

--

Well, I have my own meta, though obviously I don't expect you to put any great weight on it.

Your expectation will be met regarding this statement. Self-provided meta, IMO, is absolutely useless and further renders any Town meta others might provide also moot since being aware of your own Town tendancies means you can play to them.

For the rest of you guys, the question is essentially this: In your ideal game as town would you rather have an unconfirmed governor running around or not?

Classic softball leading question. The answer you are directing to is, of course, no. The problem is that you use the word ‘ideal’. Mafia games are NEVER ideal. The better question is … what potential damage do you forsee from an unconfirmed governer running about?

The answer is very little.

UNVOTE: Diddin
VOTE: Zoraster

Zoraster’s reaction to the little bit of questioning being supplied is interesting. Up until page 20 I would characterize his posting as mostly fluff and active lurking. Some random votes thrown down, comical not-game relevant comments to the mod and a total lack of scum-hutning.

Suddenly after being brought into the spotlight we have this explosion of activity. It still isn’t anything of relevance to scum-hutning. Instead we get a page plus of jousting with Magua about a theoretical endgame of which the likelihood of occurring is minimal and discussion about why someone is asking him questions.

The ‘suspicions’ rundown at 520 is pretty but manages to not say very much that hasn’t already been brought up in thread. I do find that addition of Raivann to be interesting. Perhaps a case of FOS Partner (Raivann), Vote Someone else (Locke)?

--

The snipe I am talking about is what I originally quoted here. It read like a dig at him because it was a response you gave to ben that wasn't actually needed. Ben was just talking about bringing his A game and you brought up some fail on his part as if he needed a reminder. I don't understand why you would do that unless it was you trying to discredit him. But I have noticed that your playstyle has changed from when we first played in that you like to throw out a lot of these quips at people that makes you sound very judgmental. I'm guessing it is a null tell now, but I don't like it much.

Combine all that with the fact I remembered you were raising benmage despite him not playing up to your standards recently and I saw a contradiction.

Actually as I type this out, I am getting more and more confused as to why you would raise Ben. He doesn't seem like your kind of player. His style is either hit or miss from my experience and as already demonstrated, you look down on players who “miss”. I'm gonna check out these links you have provided, but out of everyone in the game... I'm having a hard time swallowing you raising Benmage. Gut says you did it to either get him on your good side or to go with the flow. Neither is a good thing.

So what I’m taking away from this is that –

1. You ‘dislike’ my playstyle.
2. You don’t think raising Benmage makes sense but you didn’t both to actually look at the links you yourself requested.
3. You think you know what kind of player I think can be effective better than I do.

Every bit of this post is pre-judged. At this point my guts says this is an exercise in you trying to find some way to describe my raising of Benmage as suspect regardless of what the response was. Noted.

Because they're the ones I'm interested in seeing vote. Given hasdgfas' post restriction, voting is the absolute easiest way to get a read on him.

So it is a completely arbitrary process and not related to a personal scum tell you have? Got it.

--

I'm tired of people talking about the governor ability. Let's lynch Mikujin. I get the feeling her DGB votes are more based on the idea that DGB is being stupid than DGB is being scummy. There doesn't seem to be a whole lot of conviction that DGB is actually scum.

Would you characterize Miku’s vote as similar to your lacklustre push on DGB as scum? Do you still think she (or her slot, pending outcome) is scum?

--

And get this: throughout the game, despite pushing for hasdgfas, DGB always kept her original random-stage vote on LynchMePls, who she never tried to push. Only now she moved her vote to Locke, and between him and zoraster, I'm more confident of Locke being town.

Quick question – why so quick to assume Locke is Town? Couldn’t he possibly be scum of a faction different from DGB / Zoraster? Do you have reason to think we only have a single scum faction in a game this size?

--

Raivann’s 545 is classic scum play also.

Here’s my scum reads. Don’t ask for any valid reason for anyone but Thor (via Song). But hey, let’s just vote xvart who I haven’t even mentioned.

@Didden- I've actually got a town read on you. Please put you're vote somewhere better.

Can we agree on anyone?

How about Feysal?

What's you're views on xvart?

Classic scum reaction. “Don’t vote for me I have a Town read on you”.

--

@Xtoxm

– Hey look, an actual third post that finally brings a vote? Any reason for voting someone not in your scummy pile from you prior post other than blatant bandwagonning?

[Xtoxm]

I've read more of the thread and my opinions have changed somewhat.

Why are you calling GreyICE scum? That's part of why I voted Xvart.

[LimMePls]

The ‘suspicions’ rundown at 520 is pretty but manages to not say very much that hasn’t already been brought up in thread. I do find that addition of Raivann to be interesting. Perhaps a case of FOS Partner (Raivann), Vote Someone else (Locke)?

That is my suspicion. DGB made it sound like she thinks Zoraster-LL team, and Zor was bussing, but that play doesn't make sense to me. Zor-Raivann "FOS Buddy Vote Townie" makes much more sense to me. Hence my probing Zoraster about his Raivann observations. His prickly-ness about it only makes me find this more likely.

[Twilight Sparkle]

Magua, I think Mina went a little over board with what she posted about the governer. Hito is still busy so it is just me in the thread at this point but I will go with what he said. I would personally prefer to raise the player who is about to be lynched. Both is the end same end result. I don't think this one shot is that important.

But really this is whole thing is starting to feel like a theory discussion which in turn isn't scum hunting. Do you find us, or others like us scummy for wanting to throw away this power?

= = = = = =

MoI, that's not really what I said. In a nutshell, I couldn't see why you would raise Benmage, it doesn't fit

my

impression of your playstyle. Since then I have looked of the links a little and can see why you might want to. Plus he has looked pretty town in this game so far. It was just something that stuck on me on first read.

What's your opinion of Magua? Would you raise him?

= = = = = =

Okay so I need to do a little ISOing of Locke, Zora and possibly xvart and see what the cases on these guys are. That should help me get a foothold here and maybe even Hito will be back too.

~Sotty

[Shadow1psc]

@Mod:

xvart has 4 votes on him, not 3, and Benmage has 5 raises, ahead of Twilight Sparkle's 4.

bunnylover, chesskid, thoughts on diddin?

I just got through reading Diddin ISO, and throughout it I didn't get a single read of if he's scum or town.
I actually like his last post he made.
I believe Diddin is scumhunting or at least trying to.

This is the feeling I got, and is why I questioned the wagon on him in the first place :3

[Shadow1psc]

Sad to see GreyICE and DGB go like that, but I can't blame either of them.

Vote: Xvart

Why have people decided this Governor ability is something they want to keep in the game?

What the hell kinda scum vote?

[Shadow1psc]

Seriously, people look at Xtoxm.

To address your most recent post; GreyICE's (main) case on Xvart was almost completely misconstrued. Coupled with that blow up against DGB, and just his general scumminess this entire game is why my vote hasn't moved from him. It's like he would take one step forward, then two steps back every time I caught up.

[MagnaofIllusion]

I've read more of the thread and my opinions have changed somewhat.

Why are you calling GreyICE scum? That's part of why I voted Xvart.

Well explaining what made you change your scum reads away from your previous three would be great.

I’m calling GreyICE scum for his play.

He’s made multiple bad attacks. When called on them he drops the subject immediately as opposed to addressing said criticism / questioning.

He’s inconsisitent. He’s openly attacked players for not reading the thread yet states he doesn’t read wall-posts and certainly could be missing information.

His scum-hunting that I have seen has revolved around finding something he feels is attackable, pointing it out, and then letting the ‘they are obvscum’ rhetoric flow. I don't find this very credible.

I will fully admit his personal attacks and insults aimed at myself and others haven’t helped my perception of his motives.

But back to your vote – what other factors besides GreyICE’s ‘find’ (which I have not reviewed yet) led you to vote xvart?

--

MoI, that's not really what I said. In a nutshell, I couldn't see why you would raise Benmage, it doesn't fit my impression of your playstyle. Since then I have looked of the links a little and can see why you might want to. Plus he has looked pretty town in this game so far. It was just something that stuck on me on first read.

What's your opinion of Magua? Would you raise him?

My issue is that you already had previously stated your first read when questioning me. It doesn’t make much sense, IMO, for you to restate that read if you didn’t bother to follow up on the information you specifically requested.

I have a neutral read on Magua for reasons I’m not going to go into quite yet. Based solely on his playstyle I would support him at deadline to prevent the Hand from going unfilled (I don’t see it as negative personally) but at this stage have Benmage and several other Town reads I would support first.

[DrippingGoofball]

Urgh, back to slash and dash.

I need to recollect my thoughts on this game.

[Eddard Stark]

Vote count 1.16

Mikujin (2) Locke Lamora, Danakillsu

xvart (5) Thor665, chesskid3, GreyICE, Raivann, Xtoxm

GreyICE (1) Shadow1psc
Thor665 (1) Twilight Sparkle
diddin (3) Magua, xvart, Zdenek
danakillsu (1) Benmage
Hasdgfas (1) Bunnylover
Xtoxm (1) Hasdgfas
Drippinggoofball (2) Mikujin, Nexus
Raivann (3) LynchMePls, Feysal, diddin
Locke Lamora (3) Kast, Zoraster, DrippingGoofball
|oraster (1) MagnaofIllusion

Not voting (1) Percy

With 25 alive it takes 13 to lynch.

Raise Count 1.16

Locke Lamora (1) Locke Lamora
Twilight Sparkle (4) Bunnylover, xvart,Zdenek, GreyICE
DrippingGoofball (1) Danakillsu
Danakillsu (1) chesskid3

Benmage (5) Benmage, Thor665, diddin, Mikujin, MagnaofIllusion

Magua (3) Hasdgfas, LynchMePls, Feysal
Percy (1) Magua
GreyICE (1) Raivann


Not raising (8)Nexus, Percy, Xtoxm, Zoraster, Twilight Sparkle, DrippingGoofball, Kast, Shadow1psc

With 25 alive it takes 13 to raise someone

*GreyICE is being replaced
*Any mistakes in the votecount please point them out.
* Deadline countdown is here

[LimMePls]

@DGB: huzzah!

[Zdenek]

I like Benmage's observation and my reads on some people are changing, so

Unraise Twilight Sparkle
Raise Benmage.

So, @Zdenek, do you think hasdgfas is scummy or not?

Under the assumption that he is not faking his post restriction, not particularly. I don't have a strong opinion on whether he is faking it at the moment.

@Magua: I see your point, but not the 3 other people voting him. He's definitely not worth voting over some of the other people here =\

I think that the case on diddin is pretty good, and this objection is pointless unless you provide some names. I think that the case on GreyICE, who you are voting is weaker at the moment. Although as I read, he is getting scummier (mainly because of his interaction with Xvart).

Kast, did you actually want GreyICE to provide you with a link to a game where he went "crazy over nothing" and what do you consider to be mudslinging?

Just to be clear, I don't think that I misapplied the term at all. You attacked GreyICE for things that don't have an obvious bearing on his alignment. The scum motivation for it is that it allows scum to paint someone as scummy for no real reason, simply because it is easy for others to conflate negative aspects of a person with scummy ones.

I'm not liking Zoraster's posts. They all seem geared towards an avoidance of scum hunting: the discussion of how the governor power could be used and the one about role-fishing.

GreyICE's catch in 532, is not a real catch, since Xvart never had a stated town read on him, and was answering a question for Magua. I do not like that GreyICE didn't check to see if this was a mistake.

I do not like that Raivann sheeped the case on Xvart without checking it first.

@Didden- I've actually got a town read on you. Please put you're vote somewhere better.

Can we agree on anyone?

How about Feysal?

What's you're views on xvart?

Reads as desperation.

I don't care for Xtoxm's explanation of his Xvart vote.

Unvote
Vote Raivann

[chesskid3]

holy crap MoI is scum. Possibly/Probably scum with xvart, actually.

Unvote

Vote: MoI

[zoraster]

I'm not liking Zoraster's posts. They all seem geared towards an avoidance of scum hunting: the discussion of how the governor power could be used and the one about role-fishing.

Oh Really? That last one was posted less than 24 hours ago.

Sure I talked about the governor, but I was having a conversation about it due to questions being asked of me.

Anyway, I'm happy to lynch Raivann. In particular, I didn't like this post. Why should having a town read on someone mean they shouldn't vote for you? Doesn't make sense... it's trying to stop a wagon by buddying up.

VOTE: Raivann

[danakillsu]

ICE seemed like genuine (if bull-headed and rude) frustrated townie. I see what he pointed out with xvart as a major scumtell, and increasing the pressure seems in order.

unvote vote:xvart